Saying that Oda can write whatever he wants is not a valid way to reject the claim that your theory is a non-creative and boring end goal for Roger and Luffy and that goes against what Oda has been building and teasing for 2 decades.
You just quoted the page where Roger said exactly what I had written in my post. "We will become the greatest pirate group and then I’ll be …" And not the "I will be known as" that you used for the sake of your argument as it implies that there would be nothing else to accomplish to reach his dream.
I'll be and Known as and I'll be... are pretty much the same thing, maybe ask someone who studies the English Language for clarification.
You are being pedantic and arguing semantics.
Roger also never said his dream if you read properly.
He only said what he will become.
And finally, your theory is contradicted by the FACT that some SHs have just said that Luffy’s dream was impossible and all of them do believe that he will become the Pirate King.
2 dreams being the same doesn't mean they are equal.
Usain Bolt said he will be the fastest 200m sprinter in the world once.. and his record for 200m sprint is 19.69 seconds or something stupid.
If I said I will become the faster 200m sprinter in the world.... exactly the same statement as Bolt... it implies I aim to beat 19.69 seconds which is almost perceived as impossible.
So, just because Roger once said he will be the greatest pirate doesn't mean Luffy saying it means the goals are equal.
If what Roger did is pretty much impossible, surpassing the impossible which is likely Luffy's goal is more impossible. It seems you didn't use any critical thinking at all,
2 Statements can have completely different meanings depending on the era.
Luffy saying he will become the greatest pirate would pretty much be saying he will be greater than Roger which is probably not fathomable by most people.
His crew will also always believe in him, so there's no contradiction, that's a laughable argument.
Even achieveing what Roger did is deemed impossible by most, remember when Bellamy laughed at Luffy for wanting to find One Piece and Skypiea? People laughed at Kid too... so, just because his crew support him doesn't mean the goal isn't still deemed as impossible.
Please, read the manga, you're clearly clueless.
Being Pirate King is not what I speculated the crew said was impossible, surpassing Pirate King is what I said they probably think is impossible. Huge difference. Read bud.
I think the Japanese version is a bit more vague than "I will be..."
But Roger and Luffy secret dream is not just to be Pirate King
Luffy says he will be Pirate King it all the time, and his crewmates believe 100% he will be Pirate King. However they never heard his secret dream before, and called it impossible
And Road to Laugh Tale has very much confirmed the dream is a secret
I don't think you read my post properly or understood my point.
Roger literally said... "and then I'll be..."
What did Roger become at the end of jus journey? Pirate King,
I think the thing is you don't seem to understand Pirate King pretty much means being the Greatest Pirate in Roger's era.
Roger is currently the Greatest Pirate.
If you do something equal to Roger, you don't become the greatest Pirate, you just equalled his achievement being Pirate King.
In Luffy's era, becoming the greatest pirate would literally mean being greater than the Pirate King.
Luffy and Shanks were said to have said the same thing.
Luffy is saying he will become the greatest pirate too... and then Shanks gave him the hat, I doubt it is coincidence.
If I had to speculate what Luffy's dream specifically is... it's probably a step beyond Roger's dream. Roger wanted to be the freest, Luffy probably wants' to make the world free which would be a step greater than Roger's dream.
Luffy's and roger's dream has caused both to be compared to children at times. A free world, when the context is it being controlled by a single tyrannical world government, does not fit with that.
Luffy and Shanks were said to have said the same thing.
Luffy is saying he will become the greatest pirate too... and then Shanks gave him the hat, I doubt it is coincidence.
If I had to speculate what Luffy's dream specifically is... it's probably a step beyond Roger's dream. Roger wanted to be the freest, Luffy probably wants' to make the world free which would be a step greater than Roger's dream.
He said Shanks laughed. Laughed to the point of tears.
Also doesn't mean the panel where he gave Luffy the hat isn't relevant.
Different occasion doesn't mean anything, the same idea can be had in multiple occasions.
Like I said, I'm speculating.
Never said I know what the dream is which some people cannot quite grasp.
All we know is:
Roger said the same thing and had the same goal.
The goal is apparently impossible to most people, thus why people laugh.
It can happen only after one becomes Pirate King which Roger probably never got to do after he became Pirate King.
It's a childish idea.
Whatever it is Luffy wants to achieve.,.. will inherently make him the greatest pirate... why that is controversial is hilarious.
Luffy's and roger's dream has caused both to be compared to children at times. A free world, when the context is it being controlled by a single tyrannical world government, does not fit with that.
The dream has to be somewhat related to freedom... that's what this story is fundamentally about,
If anything, the fact the main antagonist is a tyrannical WG would actually suggest whatever it is Luffy's going for must be antithetical to a dictatorship.
The dream has to be somewhat related to freedom... that's what this story is fundamentally about,
If anything, the fact the main antagonist is a tyrannical WG would actually suggest whatever it is Luffy's going for must be antithetical to a dictatorship.
Hmmm, probably? But it also has to be something silly, childish and absurd. To justify the reaction we have seen across multiple crews to this dream. Big ideals don't suit luffy and he doesn't usually stand for those.
Hmmm, probably? But it also has to be something silly, childish and absurd. To justify the reaction we have seen across multiple crews to this dream. Big ideals don't suit luffy and he doesn't usually stand for those.
Could easily be something like "I want to make the whole world laugh", such an idea is childish, and at the same time is an idea that would require a world where everyone is free.
Roger named an Island "Laugh" basically, Laughtale. that is also a pretty childish name. I would think Luffy's dream is intertwined with these ideas.
Can't say for sure what it is, but Luffy said it back in chapter 585 in the flashback. Hard to say what it specifically is.
The official dreams of Luffy and Roger’s are to become the greatest pirates (a pretty common dream in the Grand Line) and they both have a core end-game dream from their childhood that is absolutely insane and that no one else except these 2 had during the pirate era. This core dream explains the reactions of WB, Oden, Ace, Sabo, Yamato and the SHs. It is something so incredible that it is say to be impossible and also very childish at the same time.
Luffy’s dream is probably something that Oda plans to do to close the One Piece manga. So far the most serious theory is the world wide party
It is impossible
It is childish
You need a big influence (greatest pirate) for your (tea) party to be advertised and considered by the peoples
It fits Luffy’s personality
It is the best way to close the manga
For all we know, Joy Boy may have had the exact same dream than Luffy and Roger, and that is why he planned to blow up the Red Line so that everyone could come to attend its (birthday) party. And that is why the Roger Pirates laughed about this incredible story.
The official dreams of Luffy and Roger’s are to become the greatest pirates (a pretty common dream in the Grand Line) and they both have a core end-game dream from their childhood that is absolutely insane and that no one else except these 2 had during the pirate era. This core dream explains the reactions of WB, Oden, Ace, Sabo, Yamato and the SHs. It is something so incredible that it is say to be impossible and also very childish at the same time.
Luffy’s dream is probably something that Oda plans to do to close the One Piece manga. So far the most serious theory is the world wide party
It is impossible
It is childish
You need a big influence (greatest pirate) for your (tea) party to be advertised and considered by the peoples
It fits Luffy’s personality
It is the best way to close the manga
For all we know, Joy Boy may have had the exact same dream than Luffy and Roger, and that is why he planned to blow up the Red Line so that everyone could come to attend its (birthday) party. And that is why the Roger Pirates laughed about this incredible story.
Lunarians and Fishmen were both waiting for Joy Boy and they were probably meant to be relocated elsewhere (confirmed for Fishmen). I don’t think the whole Red Line will be destroyed anyway. In any case, Lunarians were exterminated because their kingdom was where the WG established itself.
I believe this is a great theory and holds weight if I'm interpreting it correctly in believing that it is about what i think it is about. Luffy's goal isn't to be remembered forever for certain. He once said that if you die all you leave behind is bones. I don't think the true history holds much interest to him either. I think that instead, Luffy wants to gain an immortal body and live forever through his own abilities alone, by using his Rubber Rubber Fruit to make his body completely made of rubber and so malleable that he can create new rubber in it and change it to any extent he wants so that he lives forever and never dies unless he is killed. However, I think that this is in addition to Luffy's belief in his own spiritual immortality, which makes Luffy's dream a culmination of his way of living rather than an escape from death which Blackbeard in contrast thinks is the core his existence circulates around. The philosophical difference between his immortality search and Blackbeard's is that he refuses to give up on being on who he wants to be and would consider that the death of his soul, while Blackbeard thinks the ends justify the means. I see no reason why Luffy won't be able to achieve his dream before the end of One Piece. This would make Luffy the freest man in the sea because he never has to die or accept any limits. I think he will also learn flight from the Minks some day in the future and that Luffy, being based on Sun Wukong, has the same ambitions as him, to become immortal and defy anybody who would set limits on him.
That Red Line theory is pretty much trash. A lot of that old theory makes no sense and has been debunked by anyone who knows a thing or 2 about One Piece.
The irony of destroying the land above Fishman Island which is where most Fishmen want to live.
The Fishmen children were going to Sabaody and wished they could live there.
Great idea destroying the place these Fishmen would like to explore, sounds very joyous indeed.
Destroying the Red Line is absolutely Joyboy's goal.
That Red Line theory is pretty much trash. A lot of that old theory makes no sense and has been debunked by anyone who knows a thing or 2 about One Piece.
The irony of destroying the land above Fishman Island which is where most Fishmen want to live.
The Fishmen children were going to Sabaody and wished they could live there.
Great idea destroying the place these Fishmen would like to explore, sounds very joyous indeed.
Destroying the Red Line is absolutely Joyboy's goal.
the red line as far as we have been told from a variety of sources is both indestructible and uninhabited outside of majiroa. thats part of the reason why lunarians formerly living there is a big deal. going a bit further, if lunarian physiology is an evolutionary adaptation to the red lines environment outside majiroa then that tells us a bit of what the place might be like...
Make everyone in the world dream of becoming a pirate(free).
1.Roger did it when he spoke about the one piece.
2.For Luffy being a pirate mean freedom. He is warrior of liberation.
3. For Gov it means death, so this idea was deleted 800 years ago.
4."Let's turn the world upside down." Young Roger words.
Maybe not this, but it should be something simple and childish that will turn the world upside down.
There's been an update to our forum rules to broaden crediting/sourcing to all series news/announcement, etc. Please read HERE
Oscars Contest 2023 is LIVE! Click HERE for a chance to win your Oscar!
It's back! MH presents a celebration of manga/anime culture; Mangahelpers Awards 2022 is NOW LIVE!
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
