With every chapter, it becomes more clear--the Gorosei are being hard carried by their Regen, with maybe the exception of the boar.
Saturn has lost limbs many time, with the regen restoring them. We knew he was fragile in this sense from before. With this chapter, we see that Brook can cut through him, and Chopper can successfully counter one leg with a ball of fluff. The most outright, uncontestable dangerous thing he has shown is that paralysis move that caught Sanji among others. Coupled with his summoning circles, Saturn might actually be more of a crowd control/utility fighter.
One thing I've got to wonder now is if Brook's Soul-based powers can interfere with the regen somehow.
Meanwhile, Sanji drew blood from Venus, putting him below the boar's defensive power. Pros on his side is that speed and elemental power.
Sand Worm has shown the weakest display, getting cut apart, and then having a building jammed into his mouth.
Bird man has great haki, but they all do, so nothing extraordinary here yet.
And then Topman, living up to his name as the top, able to hurt Luffy with sheer defense, the only one to tank a hit without needing Regen.
These distinctions between them are super interesting.
Another thing of note here is--is it worth just grappling/trapping the Gorosei. Since death is off the table, I really think doing things like what the giants did here is the way to go.
I meant to mention this before-- I'm not convinced Chopper's defense was successful there. I'm actually concerned he got poisoned. Hopefully not. At least if he did though, the satellites could help...
"Bird man" also has a breath attack. Doesn't seem that big a deal at first, but there aren't a lot of characters that do, to my recollection. (I might be wrong but until it's specified otherwise, I've been thinking of all breath attacks as being more powerful than lasers like Franky's Radical Beam.)
Beyond this, it looks like they may be able to read minds, which could be dangerous in and of itself. I'm sure they're not called "warrior god" for no reason, even if the "god" part is a lie (though even Stella still uses the term "sin" when talking about betraying them).
The only tank we definitely know of is Warcury though, the rest could all be glass cannons (or a mêlée equivalent).
If we take this sinking thing literally, VP said the WORLD will sink into the sea.
If it's the world, we'll have to entertain that including the Red Line.
Either way, it begs many questions.
On another note, the Gorosei have refused to destroy the labosphase because they need the Motherflame.
York will almost definitely be working with the Gorosei once this arc concludes
I wonder what happened with immobilization Saturn had when he appeared? Even likes of Sanji were fully paralized and heads were poppin, Sanji did take some internal damage from that meaning neither of Nami, Robin, Chooper, Usopp should be able to withstand the headpopping thing and should be definitely susceptible to immobilization thing whatever it is.
If we take this sinking thing literally, VP said the WORLD will sink into the sea.
If it's the world, we'll have to entertain that including the Red Line.
Either way, it begs many questions.
On another note, the Gorosei have refused to destroy the labosphase because they need the Motherflame.
York will almost definitely be working with the Gorosei once this arc concludes
You made me realize something. If something causes the sea levels to rise then destroying the Red Line could cause sea levels to fall, thus saving the world. Luffy destroying the Red Line would mean the destruction of Fishman Island but that's why Fishman have Noah to carry them to safety
At the start of Vegapunk's monologue which was translated, he said the world will soon learn inconvenient knowledge, and because of that, the world will sink.
VP isn't literally saying the world will sink, what VP is saying is that people who have knowledge the WG doesn't want = death.
Now the whole world will know an inconvenient knowledge which will essentially end the world because the WG ALWAYS kill people who know knowledge they always want to keep secret, in this case, the world knows inconvenient knowledge, therefore they have to die
The sea drowning the world or w/e aqua-disaster that may be, it just a way for VP to say the death of everyone in the world.
Gorosei don't intend to sink the world, it has never been a goal or their agenda, death is just what happens to people who have knowledge they don't want disclosed. And VP is pretty much saying w/e he's about to say is about to make the world become a global Ohara.
So, we're still yet to hear what the WG's secret it. This is why I dislike those short summaries, they can really be misleading and generate almost useless debate over poor clarification. I appreciate the spoilers, but they had the entire community out here making up theories about the sea as if that's the goal of the Gorosei for the past 1000 years... to sink the world....
I don't know if Vegapunk is a piece of shit or not because it looks like he's really inconveniencing the world by giving them knowledge that would kill them. Issue isn't the fact he's giving them knowledge, issue for me is the fact he is giving out knowledge without having something in place to protect them.
I can understand him telling the SH crew who are up against the WG, but to involve the world without anything in place as far as I'm aware... WILD.
Dude just dropped a Nuke on the world.
...I don't know why you're saying this so assertively as if it's confirmed, other than the fact you do that all the time about everything. Nothing about the full summary/script and raws indicate he's *not* speaking literally. In fact, the very last panels ominously cutting away to under the sea lean towards him being literal.
Also notable is that the place Brook was sent to by Kuma had that weird cult who had magic circles and shit similar in design to whatever Saturn has been doing. Could just be that Oda recycled that sort of imagery
...I don't know why you're saying this so assertively as if it's confirmed, other than the fact you do that all the time about everything. Nothing about the full summary/script and raws indicate he's *not* speaking literally. In fact, the very last panels ominously cutting away to under the sea lean towards him being literal.
Between there being a literal Noah, which is a giant Ark the size of an island, and the ocean level rising when Lulusia was destroyed, as well as the existence of Sky Islands it'd be hard to not take it literally. Also the fact that Wano which isn't a WG affiliate has that crazy wall around their island.
With every chapter, it becomes more clear--the Gorosei are being hard carried by their Regen, with maybe the exception of the boar.
Saturn has lost limbs many time, with the regen restoring them. We knew he was fragile in this sense from before. With this chapter, we see that Brook can cut through him, and Chopper can successfully counter one leg with a ball of fluff. The most outright, uncontestable dangerous thing he has shown is that paralysis move that caught Sanji among others. Coupled with his summoning circles, Saturn might actually be more of a crowd control/utility fighter.
One thing I've got to wonder now is if Brook's Soul-based powers can interfere with the regen somehow.
Meanwhile, Sanji drew blood from Venus, putting him below the boar's defensive power. Pros on his side is that speed and elemental power.
Sand Worm has shown the weakest display, getting cut apart, and then having a building jammed into his mouth.
Bird man has great haki, but they all do, so nothing extraordinary here yet.
And then Topman, living up to his name as the top, able to hurt Luffy with sheer defense, the only one to tank a hit without needing Regen.
These distinctions between them are super interesting.
Another thing of note here is--is it worth just grappling/trapping the Gorosei. Since death is off the table, I really think doing things like what the giants did here is the way to go.
I think aside from Warcury they all have weak defenses and don't seem to dodge. Having regen has made them sloppy fighters.
However, to make up for that it seems they all have powerful offensive capabilities that also have scale. Jupiter the weakest had a powerful vacuum that could even capture giants. The Venus has speed and power with swords, and can use ice (assuming he can do a lot of damage to individuals but maybe lacks scale like the others). Saturn had poison balls that created massive explosions. Mars has his own version of Bolo Breath which took out a big piece of the lab. And Mercury had that powerful Roar attack that took out big piece of forrest, and unlike the others has strong defense too.
Overall they may be too reliant on their immortality and powerful DF powers vs actual combat abilities. I think we will find there is a divide in this tier where some enemies will just be OP but not skilled while others will be both. This makes me think God's Knights are going to be even more formidable but at least defeat-able (assuming they are mortal since Garling aged).
Between there being a literal Noah, which is a giant Ark the size of an island, and the ocean level rising when Lulusia was destroyed, as well as the existence of Sky Islands it'd be hard to not take it literally. Also the fact that Wano which isn't a WG affiliate has that crazy wall around their island.
The wall around Wano is going to be destroyed once they decide to open Wano's borders. They literally have to destroy the wall in order to acquire Pluton and open Wano's borders WHCIH they intend to carry out very soon.
Meaning they'll be on a regular sea level as pretty much every other Island? Which contradicts the idea that there's this fear of the sea levels rising.
If Wano never intended to have this wall taken off, then the idea they had this walls put in place as a counter-measure against sea-rising theory would make sense... but they intend to take it away. Why would they take the walls away if sea-levels rising was something they've considered a threat for almost a thousand years?
Wano of all countries being affiliated with Joyboy and the Ancient Kingdom who were at war with the WG would have the best preparations in place.
Furthermore, we know the Ancient Kingdom intend to save the world. If we even assume Noah is supposed to save people from this flood... there's no way a ship the size of Noah can carry the entire world... so even from that perspective, this makes no sense regarding sea levels being the thing the AK has been trying to deter the WG from achieving in the first place.
So Noah is the size of an Island, that would be like saying they're going to put the entire world's population on 1 Island the size of any normal Island to save the world... that also makes no sense. I'd understand if there were multiple Noahs, a lot of multiple Noahs, but it's one ship.
This sea level thing is very questionable, at least, at this point.
Wouldn't this be like saying Marco is only strong because he can regenerate?
No matter how powerful your DF is, if you're weak, any top tier like an Emperor would make light work out of you.
Saturn who would be said to be carried by his regeneration triggered the Observation Haki of literally everyone on the Island even before the other Gorose appeared. Jimbei, Zoro, Lucci.... they all had something to say about Saturn's immense Haki, and this Haki has not just been mentioned or shown regarding 1 Gorosei, but so far, 3 iirc.
Saturn's Haki was intimidating to everyone.
Mar's Haki was mentioned as well in the Labosphere.
Warcury's Haki shout had an effect against the giants, Luffy in Gear 5 and shook the entire Island irrc... and his defence hurt Luffy's punch which is probably a Haki feat too.
Everyone with a DF power uses their abilities to the fullest extent. If your ability can help regenerate, no reason to not capitalise on it. They're not just powerful due to ability, they're truly powerful.
There's just no reason not to use regeneration... would be like saying Marco is weak for using regeneration, or that King is weak for using his flames to render attacks useless.
I think aside from Warcury they all have weak defenses and don't seem to dodge. Having regen has made them sloppy fighters.
However, to make up for that it seems they all have powerful offensive capabilities that also have scale. Jupiter the weakest had a powerful vacuum that could even capture giants. The Venus has speed and power with swords, and can use ice (assuming he can do a lot of damage to individuals but maybe lacks scale like the others). Saturn had poison balls that created massive explosions. Mars has his own version of Bolo Breath which took out a big piece of the lab. And Mercury had that powerful Roar attack that took out big piece of forrest, and unlike the others has strong defense too.
Overall they may be too reliant on their immortality and powerful DF powers vs actual combat abilities. I think we will find there is a divide in this tier where some enemies will just be OP but not skilled while others will be both. This makes me think God's Knights are going to be even more formidable but at least defeat-able (assuming they are mortal since Garling aged).
This is something Blackbeard Pirates spoke about when Ace fought Blackbeard.
When they say a DF user is overly-reliant on their DF, they don't mean the user is spamming their DF powers, they mean they lack any fighting power outside of DF ability referring to Haki, martial prowess and Durability.
Van-Augur said Ace was impressive because he wasn't overly-reliant on his DF... if we interpret it the way MOST readers do:
Literally every attack Ace performed or manoeuvre he performed was DF based.
What's missed is... he tanked attacks from Blackbeard when his DF was deactivate which shows his body is physically powerful. Over reliance on DF power is mostly something you'd see in Paradise, people who overestimate DF ability and feel they don't need to improve their physical/martial art abilities.
I don't believe the Gorosei are too reliant on their ability. With Haki at the highest level, we can almost guarantee they're also physically power-houses too. No one gets extremely powerful Haki without having gone through some hellish situations physically too.
There's literally no top-tier character that doesn't use their DF literally 99.9% of the time. The difference between an overly-reliant DF user and a top-tier is... even without their DF, they're still able to prove problematic. Whether it's Whitebeard or Gorosei, they all use their DFs as often as possible because it's probably the most efficient way of fighting.
Like even Aramaki said, when they thought they could use fire which is his weakness, he said being an Admiral, of course he knows how to fight when people try to exploit his weakness to fire.
If we take this sinking thing literally, VP said the WORLD will sink into the sea.
If it's the world, we'll have to entertain that including the Red Line.
Either way, it begs many questions.
On another note, the Gorosei have refused to destroy the labosphase because they need the Motherflame.
York will almost definitely be working with the Gorosei once this arc concludes
Considering that we won't have continents on One Piece World but only Islands... We are considering that the sea level will rise, but if it's the opposite? The islands will sunk into ocean floor... it's more plausive IMO
This is something Blackbeard Pirates spoke about when Ace fought Blackbeard.
When they say a DF user is overly-reliant on their DF, they don't mean the user is spamming their DF powers, they mean they lack any fighting power outside of DF ability referring to Haki, martial prowess and Durability.
Van-Augur said Ace was impressive because he wasn't overly-reliant on his DF... if we interpret it the way MOST readers do:
Literally every attack Ace performed or manoeuvre he performed was DF based.
What's missed is... he tanked attacks from Blackbeard when his DF was deactivate which shows his body is physically powerful. Over reliance on DF power is mostly something you'd see in Paradise, people who overestimate DF ability and feel they don't need to improve their physical/martial art abilities.
I don't believe the Gorosei are too reliant on their ability. With Haki at the highest level, we can almost guarantee they're also physically power-houses too. No one gets extremely powerful Haki without having gone through some hellish situations physically too.
There's literally no top-tier character that doesn't use their DF literally 99.9% of the time. The difference between an overly-reliant DF user and a top-tier is... even without their DF, they're still able to prove problematic. Whether it's Whitebeard or Gorosei, they all use their DFs as often as possible because it's probably the most efficient way of fighting.
Like even Aramaki said, when they thought they could use fire which is his weakness, he said being an Admiral, of course he knows how to fight when people try to exploit his weakness to fire.
To be clear I don't mean they are reliant on their DF powers in the way Blackbeard pirates mentioned it about weak pirates, the classic example being Caribou who got wiped by Pekoms.
I totally agree with you that the Gorosei are all powerful fighters. I think they all are masters of haki, have mastered+awakened mythical zoan DFs, and have immortality. What I mean on them being over-reliant on their immortality is that they fight a bit imprecisely.
Most of them so far have relied in large scale attacks and don't dodge/block attacks much if at all. This makes sense since they are immortal they can focus on other things but I think overtime this has dulled their sense for direct 1v1 combat against an opponent that can defeat them.
Could be wrong especially with Venus who has been precise as a swordsman and Warcury who has shown powerful defenses, but need to see more before making up my mind on how combat skilled they are vs them being more like powerful monsters with haki and DF powers.
Could be wrong especially with Venus who has been precise as a swordsman and Warcury who has shown powerful defenses, but need to see more before making up my mind on how combat skilled they are vs them being more like powerful monsters with haki and DF powers.
Powerful Haki usually correlates with combat skills.
The times where people have developed Haki is during combat for literally every character.
Like Rayleigh said, Haki blooms towards battle, so it's likely they're highly skilled in combat.
Don't think it's possible to achieve high levels in Armament and King's Haki which can't be trained.... and not have high combat prowess's.
Most of them so far have relied in large scale attacks and don't dodge/block attacks much if at all. This makes sense since they are immortal they can focus on other things but I think overtime this has dulled their sense for direct 1v1 combat against an opponent that can defeat them.
By this metric, I guess it's fair to say Marco, Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu who don't dodge attacks or really block either have had their 1v1 combat sense dulled since their abilities don't require them to block or dodge.
Guess the same can be said of Kaido too, he also didn't have to dodge for years until Luffy appeared.
I disagree with this sentiment, as long as you're a top tier, you get the benefit of the doubt until the Manga says otherwise like with Garp, Chinjao and Rayleigh who say their fighting ability decreased due to age.
What if the whatever that destroyed Lulusia wasn't lasers but it was stream of water that sunk the entire island? Imu and Gorosei needs York to continue charging the Mother Flame so they continue flooding or rather in their words cleansing.
Powerful Haki usually correlates with combat skills.
The times where people have developed Haki is during combat for literally every character.
Like Rayleigh said, Haki blooms towards battle, so it's likely they're highly skilled in combat.
Don't think it's possible to achieve high levels in Armament and King's Haki which can't be trained.... and not have high combat prowess's.
By this metric, I guess it's fair to say Marco, Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu who don't dodge attacks or really block either have had their 1v1 combat sense dulled since their abilities don't require them to block or dodge.
Guess the same can be said of Kaido too, he also didn't have to dodge for years until Luffy appeared.
I disagree with this sentiment, as long as you're a top tier, you get the benefit of the doubt until the Manga says otherwise like with Garp, Chinjao and Rayleigh who say their fighting ability decreased due to age.
The distinction here is the Gorosei are immortal and have likely lived centuries, an attribute no other character in the story shares. I think at one point in their lives the Gorosei were all great at combat, gained those haki abilities through battle, and mastered their DF powers (I think its these traits that led them to becoming immortal). But once they became immortal I think may have softened in their combat skills and fight in a way that takes advantage of the immortality vs maintaining normal combat skills. On top of that these guys spend decades without even stepping foot out side Marijeose so fighting isn't something they do much of anymore.
I think its also important to distinguish that they may not be weaker overall since taking advantage of their immortality is natural as its an ability they now have. Using it properly has made them stronger enemies even if they are not as great at the basics as they used to be.
As for your sentiment that top tier stay that way, unless stated otherwise, I think that's still open to interpretation. There is no definitive rule yet so I think its okay to consider the alternative.
With every chapter, it becomes more clear--the Gorosei are being hard carried by their Regen, with maybe the exception of the boar.
Saturn has lost limbs many time, with the regen restoring them. We knew he was fragile in this sense from before. With this chapter, we see that Brook can cut through him, and Chopper can successfully counter one leg with a ball of fluff. The most outright, uncontestable dangerous thing he has shown is that paralysis move that caught Sanji among others. Coupled with his summoning circles, Saturn might actually be more of a crowd control/utility fighter.
One thing I've got to wonder now is if Brook's Soul-based powers can interfere with the regen somehow.
I wonder what happened with immobilization Saturn had when he appeared? Even likes of Sanji were fully paralized and heads were poppin, Sanji did take some internal damage from that meaning neither of Nami, Robin, Chooper, Usopp should be able to withstand the headpopping thing and should be definitely susceptible to immobilization thing whatever it is.
I highly doubt Tenryubito left their 20 kingdoms and built Marigeoise to protect themselves from a big flood - I would rather assume the "big flood" is a consequence of AK project. The Red Line is rising up to 10km above the sea level and is fully circling the globe so it’s not like there is a limited high level area to protect a few people. On the other hand, Marigeoise is the specific X,Y location on the Red Line where Grand Line passes through the Red Line which means that it may be a weak spot of the Red Line to be protected from Pluton and that’s why WG HQ is there. Grand Line and Calm Belt sea currents are probably a consequence of this Red Line hole - waters are massively moved from one side to another causing the Grand Line crazy weathers and Calm Belt are the places where the Grand Line and Blues sea forces balance each other. There should also be a place in New World where the sea currents coming from Red Line hole go back to Paradise area otherwise there would be a Grand Line water current issue - I bet you this place is where AK is located because it used the sea currents as an energy source. Considering the seas are a fundamental topic in One Piece I think that the Ancient Kingdom unknown energy source is hydroelectricity. The AK studied the Grand Line and may have wanted to use the Red Line as a giant water accelerator tunnel to generate hydroelectricity worldwide. AK could have planned to do terraforming on the Red Line to control the Grand Line currents and bring hydroelectricity all over the world. That would explain why they needed to work on this specific Red Line location and why they asked Fishman Island and Lunarian kingdom to relocate elsewhere and why WG established itself on this spot to protect the Red Line.
That's quite interesting. Also I'd expect the scumbags celestial dragons running to high ground while the others perish, if they knew the flood was coming.
The distinction here is the Gorosei are immortal and have likely lived centuries, an attribute no other character in the story shares. I think at one point in their lives the Gorosei were all great at combat, gained those haki abilities through battle, and mastered their DF powers (I think its these traits that led them to becoming immortal). But once they became immortal I think may have softened in their combat skills and fight in a way that takes advantage of the immortality vs maintaining normal combat skills. On top of that these guys spend decades without even stepping foot out side Marijeose so fighting isn't something they do much of anymore.
I think its also important to distinguish that they may not be weaker overall since taking advantage of their immortality is natural as its an ability they now have. Using it properly has made them stronger enemies even if they are not as great at the basics as they used to be.
As for your sentiment that top tier stay that way, unless stated otherwise, I think that's still open to interpretation. There is no definitive rule yet so I think its okay to consider the alternative.
they still do have insanely strong haki. I think the regeneration is automatic and takes no energy or effort. It might just be that from an energy efficiency perspective its better to tank hits and instant regen than to use other means.
With every chapter, it becomes more clear--the Gorosei are being hard carried by their Regen, with maybe the exception of the boar.
Saturn has lost limbs many time, with the regen restoring them. We knew he was fragile in this sense from before. With this chapter, we see that Brook can cut through him, and Chopper can successfully counter one leg with a ball of fluff. The most outright, uncontestable dangerous thing he has shown is that paralysis move that caught Sanji among others. Coupled with his summoning circles, Saturn might actually be more of a crowd control/utility fighter.
One thing I've got to wonder now is if Brook's Soul-based powers can interfere with the regen somehow.
Meanwhile, Sanji drew blood from Venus, putting him below the boar's defensive power. Pros on his side is that speed and elemental power.
Sand Worm has shown the weakest display, getting cut apart, and then having a building jammed into his mouth.
Bird man has great haki, but they all do, so nothing extraordinary here yet.
And then Topman, living up to his name as the top, able to hurt Luffy with sheer defense, the only one to tank a hit without needing Regen.
These distinctions between them are super interesting.
Another thing of note here is--is it worth just grappling/trapping the Gorosei. Since death is off the table, I really think doing things like what the giants did here is the way to go.
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