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On Break One Piece Chapter 1114 Discussion

Hannibal Psyche

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On this matter I‘m pretty sure the WG labels you differently depending on the way you violate their laws. A pirate by the definition I got from the OP world, is someone who ignores the WGs laws, travels by sea and usually sails under a black flag and a unique jolly roger. Typically they are organized in at least one group, called a crew.

Rebells are not only ignoring laws, they are actively aiming to change/ remove a nation’s governing system thus they are fighting against the laws of the WG.

In the eyes of the WG every nation that does not conform to their system’s laws is considered lawless.
For that reason Kaidou was still considered a pirate even though he helped usurping a nation which in a WG affiliated country would have been clearly regarded as an act of rebellion.
I don't think it matters what laws you break or how you violate it, as long as you're on sea and you break the law, I'm pretty certain you're considered a Pirate.
You can be anything, but if you're on sea, the tag of a Pirate gets added as far as I'm aware if you are deemed indulging in crime.
 

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On this matter I‘m pretty sure the WG labels you differently depending on the way you violate their laws. A pirate by the definition I got from the OP world, is someone who ignores the WGs laws, travels by sea and usually sails under a black flag and a unique jolly roger. Typically they are organized in at least one group, called a crew.

Rebells are not only ignoring laws, they are actively aiming to change/ remove a nation’s governing system thus they are fighting against the laws of the WG.

In the eyes of the WG every nation that does not conform to their system’s laws is considered lawless.
For that reason Kaidou was still considered a pirate even though he helped usurping a nation which in a WG affiliated country would have been clearly regarded as an act of rebellion.
A pirate is someone who steals and is violent, especially given the initial reactions characters of towns have of pirates until they meet Luffy (even Nami and Zoro had bad impressions of pirates). The WG doesn't label anyone differently based on how the laws are violated, but what they do.

Kaidou has always been a pirate, so he'll be called a pirate. He's not a rebel because he never committed an act of rebellion, as far as I know, he just took out the previous ruler and became the ruler himself, of certain territories. He's not going around rebelling against kingdoms, encouraging others to rebel, or going after the World Government the way the Revolutionary Army are.

Plus, Wano isn't under the jurisdiction of the World Government, it's independent, which is why Kaidou was safe there? He wasn't actively aiming to change or remove nations' governing system, he merely took over one nation's.
 

Kuroiyaiba

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I don't think it matters what laws you break or how you violate it, as long as you're on sea and you break the law, I'm pretty certain you're considered a Pirate.
You can be anything, but if you're on sea, the tag of a Pirate gets added as far as I'm aware if you are deemed indulging in crime.
Think I got your point now. I‘d agree with you to a certain degree. I just reread the TCB version of chapter 4 where Luffy punches Helmeppo. Afterwards Helmeppo refers to Luffy as a brigand. After luffy wrecks the staute of Morgan, Morgan calls Luffy a rebell.
So this goes well with your statement.

But I still wonder if someone attacked a goverment‘s ship whether that someone would be regarded as a pirate or as a rebel by the WG. My guess on that case is that it would depend on the attackers motivation.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

A pirate is someone who steals and is violent, especially given the initial reactions characters of towns have of pirates until they meet Luffy (even Nami and Zoro had bad impressions of pirates). The WG doesn't label anyone differently based on how the laws are violated, but what they do.

Kaidou has always been a pirate, so he'll be called a pirate. He's not a rebel because he never committed an act of rebellion, as far as I know, he just took out the previous ruler and became the ruler himself, of certain territories. He's not going around rebelling against kingdoms, encouraging others to rebel, or going after the World Government the way the Revolutionary Army are.

Plus, Wano isn't under the jurisdiction of the World Government, it's independent, which is why Kaidou was safe there? He wasn't actively aiming to change or remove nations' governing system, he merely took over one nation's.
Yes, regarding Kaidou I did not make my point clear enough or let‘s say I mixed up two different points. Yes he already was infamous as a pirate when he helped Orochi usurp Wano‘s throne. So even if Wano had been affilated to the WG nothing would have changed about Kaidou‘s pirate status.

However what Kaidou did to Wano can be considered a rebellious act since he directly helped dethroning the ruler of said nation.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Think I got your point now. I‘d agree with you to a certain degree. I just reread the TCB version of chapter 4 where Luffy punches Helmeppo. Afterwards Helmeppo refers to Luffy as a brigand. After luffy wrecks the staute of Morgan, Morgan calls Luffy a rebell.
So this goes well with your statement.

But I still wonder if someone attacked a goverment‘s ship whether that someone would be regarded as a pirate or as a rebel by the WG. My guess on that case is that it would depend on the attackers motivation.
There are bandits, pirates and terrorists (revolutionaries).
If you're at sea, you're a pirate, if you're on land you're a bandit and if you are trying to overthrow the WG, then you're a terrorist organisation which is how the WG view them.

Helmeppo calls Luffy few things, He calls him a Brigand, and he also calls him a Ruffian, all Helmeppo is doing is pretty much labelling him a thug since he doesn't know him. He just got hit by some random person he doesn't know.

In chapter 5, Luffy is officially called a Pirate.

Attacking a WG ship would at the very least render you an outlaw, but if you're also sailing, then you're definitely a Pirate. If it's political and one operates like the RA who go to other countries to fight against their country and dethrone their kings, then they can become like the RA, political freedom fighters.

However what Kaidou did to Wano can be considered a rebellious act since he directly helped dethroning the ruler of said nation.
Wano is not part of the WG, so it doesn't matter it's not a rebellious act. Either way, it doesn't matter. If Kaido took over a country, he'd still be a Pirate because the motivation is not political, but simply to set territory.

Blackbeard tried to make Beehive Island an official country, they refused, but it wouldn't mean he still wasn't a Pirate if it got approved.
 

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Yes, regarding Kaidou I did not make my point clear enough or let‘s say I mixed up two different points. Yes he already was infamous as a pirate when he helped Orochi usurp Wano‘s throne. So even if Wano had been affilated to the WG nothing would have changed about Kaidou‘s pirate status.

However what Kaidou did to Wano can be considered a rebellious act since he directly helped dethroning the ruler of said nation.
He still wouldn't be called a rebel over a pirate, especially considering he's not inciting rebellion, he's just usurping a territory.
 

strawhatdubble

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He still wouldn't be called a rebel over a pirate, especially considering he's not inciting rebellion, he's just usurping a territory.
Hey guys I'm new here and I have a theory
 

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Teach is also most likely Buccaneer, but the different one. The one who refused to believe the sun, instead we can see his childhood crying under the moon. Probably got hunted thanks to his special bloodline during early of his life until he joined Whitebeard pirates.

Archeology is his hobby according to the data, he must be know something (or a lot of things) about Joy Boy, Nika and the sun. Being a D clan member and buccaneer shaped him into powerful individual. I also suspect him for born without having conqueror haki. All of his pain for being a D, a buccaneer and knowing only the chosen one are gettin the conqueror haki, he set his own goal with his own plan.

Every weakness comes with strength, just like weakness of the sea comes with the power of devil fruit, he realized that despite all bad things that he get since he was born, he also has the ability to hold two powers. To use this advantage, he need to be specific. Two powers he has now most likely represent two of three power of ancient weapons.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Teach is also most likely Buccaneer, but the different one. The one who refused to believe the sun, instead we can see his childhood crying under the moon. Probably got hunted thanks to his special bloodline during early of his life until he joined Whitebeard pirates.

Archeology is his hobby according to the data, he must be know something (or a lot of things) about Joy Boy, Nika and the sun. Being a D clan member and buccaneer shaped him into powerful individual. I also suspect him for born without having conqueror haki. All of his pain for being a D, a buccaneer and knowing only the chosen one are gettin the conqueror haki, he set his own goal with his own plan.

Every weakness comes with strength, just like weakness of the sea comes with the power of devil fruit, he realized that despite all bad things that he get since he was born, he also has the ability to hold two powers. To use this advantage, he need to be specific. Two powers he has now most likely represent two of three power of ancient weapons.
Not sure he is a Bucaneer, we already know that Kuma is a Bucaneer and when Saturn spoke about Teach being special, I don't think he'd have called it special if it was a race that we were already aware of.

Teach is also from a race where:
  • He can't sleep, he's awake 24/7 and has never slept in his life.
The image with him crying under the moon is probably referencing the fact that being awake 24/7 would make it a lot more obvious that you're alone especially if he was abandoned, so it makes sense from that perspective that he is crying.

  • He also feels twice the pain as a normal human being implying he's probably got 2x the receptors of a normal human being.
  • Luffy also referred to him as they implying he's not 1 person physically.

More so, we know that a DF can only be consumed by 1 person, and if Blackbeard is 2 people physically, then it explains why he can consume 2. Marco also said his body was different, so it's not really weird to think of Blackbeard as 2 people physically in 1 body.
If it's 1 DF per body, then Blackbeard possibly having maybe 2 hearts or the anatomy of 2 people in 1 body... I'd assume that's why he can consume 2 DFs.

Either way, everything about Teach so far doesn't seem consistent about anything we know from about Bucaneers.
  • Kuma is 22 feet tall, and was compared to Whitebeard in height who is 21 feet tall.
  • Blackbeard is 10 feet tall, very different from Kuma who we know to be Bucaneer, that's a huge difference in height.
I'd imagine Blackbeard is probably from a different race that's yet to be revealed. I don't see why Oda wouldn't have specified in the latest chapters and kept it secret if he was a Bucaneer, but maybe he is but highly doubt it.

Maybe he is from some Chimera race that's probably extinct since he is an orphan.

Being a D. also doesn't mean you know anything, even Law doesn't understand anything about the D. clan. Robin herself doesn't know much about the D. clan. So, I doubt even Blackbeard knows much. All she knows is that D. clan members have played a significant role in history. No one probably understands the significance of being a D. other than those who went to Laughtale with Roger, and people Roger told about his findings such as Whitetbeard.

I also suspect him for born without having conqueror haki. All of his pain for being a D, a buccaneer and knowing only the chosen one are gettin the conqueror haki, he set his own goal with his own plan.
Blackbeard was 12 years old when he decided to join Whitebeard. There is no way a 12 year old figured out if they had Haki or not especially when he probably wasn't a skilled combatant at the time, so I highly doubt he sat down and decided that since he won't have King's Haki, he needs a DF. You can't plan to have it or not have Conqueror's Haki.
Even Zoro didn't know he had Conqueror's Haki until Wano... he is 21 years old, took him 21 years to figure out he had Conqueror's Haki and it took Luffy 17 years.
There's no way a 12 year old determines they definitely don't or won't have King's Haki.
The only thing we know he planned for at the age of 12 was to acquire the Yami Yami no Mi by joining Whitebeard's crew.

Teach fought Shanks when Shanks was 26/27 years old when he was already an extremely powerful Pirate with King's Haki. He fought Shanks before he met with Luffy. Shanks was already known to be fighting with Mihawk often.
Someone that could have fought someone like Shanks who is also equal to Mihawk... Teach is highly possessing Conqueror's Haki.

Another thing is Chinjao said that only those with Conqueror's Haki can be Pirate King, and he believed the Blackbeard was the only one capable of becoming Pirate King suggesting he probably has Conqueror's Haki.

For years, people thought Blackbeard didn't have Haki until he proved he did against the Seraphim. There are somethings people should just be assumed to have when they're amongst the strongest in the series.
We don't need to see Mihawk or Rocks or Shiki or Kong using Conqueror's Haki to reasonably assume they have it. You can't be at the very top of the food chain and not possess it.

Blackbeard gets severely underestimated for the simple fact he comes off as a coward and uses under-handed tactics.

Only thing I do agree with is he's probably one of the most educated characters in the series being that he has never slept, and likely has a good chance of having spent most of his time reading.
 
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catagon87

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The things you find in the interwebs.... best fake chapter cover

At least the title is believable.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

There are two arguments I could see on Blackbeard not having COC.

One is the emphasis he places on abilities over anything else. It'd be a bit of poetic justice if Blackbeard's "Devil Fruit Hunter" crew is a result of him having imposter syndrome for not having COC and trying to overcompensate. His entire crew is balanced but only from an ability perspective. Blackbeard speaks about having the most powerful ability and he specifically sought the most destructive ability to compliment it.

The second (and in my opinion, stronger) argument is that he's completely different than existing, confirmed COC users.
Objectively here's a list of confirmed Conquerers at the moment of their defeat:

Zoro accepts his defeat (and his death which didn't happen) at the hands of Hawkeye to avoid shame:


Oden issues a warning to Kaido and accepts his death:


Garp smiles and leaves things in the next generation's hands as he accepts his defeat at the hands of Aokiji:


Katakuri acknowledges Luffy's potential in his final exchange before accepting defeat and falling onto his back:


Hancock being a hard bitch even when she's in such a futile situation, unable to use her ability:


Kaido accepted long ago he'd be defeated by Joyboy and reminisced about it before his end:


Doflamingo fought to the end, confidently:


Ace didn't think twice before accepting death over losing his own brother:


All of them faced their fate without issue. Blackbeard, on the other hand, pleaded for his life and showed a crazy level of cowardice we've not witnessed in "conquerors":


Blackbeard has the ambition of a conqueror but not the guts to back it up.
 

Bradhimself

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I agree about Ussopp. It’s kind of annoying he had a moment with COO in dressrosa and Oda made him disappear of the face of this earth.

Random thought, who is going to be the antagonist in the Elbaph arc? Normally, we would have hints before hand but I can’t picture Elbaph being taken over by a yonko let alone equivalent of a shishibukai. It’s a warrior nation… are we going to have a short arc at elbaph with reunions and with Saul letting the strawhats they need to go to another island? Or is shanks going to be waiting there? So many questions after this arc.

Edit: I do not count shanks as a person to take over Elbaph… he is more friends with them than anything.
I think Elbaf is unofficially Shank's territory. Basing this off how well received he is there.

The antagonist is a tough one to nail down. Obvious deduction is someone we know or someone we don't. Considering Shanks is/was there I would say there was no big bad to defeat there otherwise Shanks would have stomped.

It is either a friendly SHP vs RHP after SHP are made to train (Luffy in giant form training with Giants!!)

Or it will be someone introduced. the Unknown.

But I basically see Elbaf as an arc for leveling up, lore dumps, Usopp to shine and then SHP get direction for the final Poneglyph.
 

kg21tmac11

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I think Elbaf is unofficially Shank's territory. Basing this off how well received he is there.

The antagonist is a tough one to nail down. Obvious deduction is someone we know or someone we don't. Considering Shanks is/was there I would say there was no big bad to defeat there otherwise Shanks would have stomped.

It is either a friendly SHP vs RHP after SHP are made to train (Luffy in giant form training with Giants!!)

Or it will be someone introduced. the Unknown.

But I basically see Elbaf as an arc for leveling up, lore dumps, Usopp to shine and then SHP get direction for the final Poneglyph.
I hope it is an arc filled with information. Probably a fashback from one of the elders that may have lived longer than 300 years. That would be interesting.
 

Kuroiyaiba

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Wano is not part of the WG, so it doesn't matter it's not a rebellious act. Either way, it doesn't matter. If Kaido took over a country, he'd still be a Pirate because the motivation is not political, but simply to set territory.

Blackbeard tried to make Beehive Island an official country, they refused, but it wouldn't mean he still wasn't a Pirate if it got approved.
Yes I’m aware of Wano’s global standing. I was trying to point out that in OP world one could commit severe political crimes in a non WG affiliated Country without being called a rebel while on the other hand Wano‘s citizens did fear the foreign pirates (that were lableed pirates by the WG) when facing them in Wano. So in the end it it all depends on your standing towards the WG‘s regime.

And yet I‘m wondering how many states/ nations exist in the world of OP and if the WG associated nations only are a small portion of the entity of nations. We as the readers learned that there are roughly 170 nations assossiated with the WG. Marco suggested that there are around 20.000.000 islands in the world. Now if you compare this to our real world having 193 states (UN states) and more than18.000 marine islands (>than one square mile).
This makes me think that the majority of nations is considered lawless in the world of OP.
 
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