Discussion Mser Tier list

[felixng2011]

The Tezuka vs Yuki match has made me curious to see where the Msers stack up relative to each other. This is my own personal tier list, mostly only ranking the guys who are at the upper tiers. There are a lot of people I might forget especially foreigner Msers. Tier lists are pretty subjective and a lot of characters haven't had feats recently so its hard to judge really. Honestly believe full power Tezuka might deserve a tier of his own but need to see the conclusion of the current match to be sure.

I rank Kintaro higher than all the guys below because I don't see how they can deal with POP currently which is why I am also tempted to put Siegfried there but I think at the very least Kintaro has higher base abilities than Siegfried so he would be able to beat him even though they both have POP.
Akutsu was able to go toe to toe with Amadeus for a while before gassing out which is more impressive than anything the A tier msers have done. A tiers are honestly hard to rank due to lack of impressive feats for singles. I actually think someone like Niou has had a lot more impressive feats than Sanada, Atobe or Fuji recently and he was never a top dog before.

S Tier

Tezuka
Yukimura
Ryoma
Ludovic

S- Tier

Kintaro
Akutsu

A Tier

Atobe
Fuji
Niou
Sanada
Bertie
POP Siegfried
Osval

A- Tier

Henri Nobel
Shiraishi
Frankensteiner

 

[Kaoz]

Just as a quick reminder to everyone who wants to jump in on the discussion, don't talk about the contents of this month's chapters until 24 hours after the chapter thread has been created.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I will rank them currently

S tier
1. Tezuka
2. Yukimura
3. Ryoma
4. Ludovic
5. Bertie
6. Kintaro

A tier
7. Siegrfried
8. Fuji
9. Sanada
10. Akutsu
11. Atobe

B tier
12. Henri
13. Shiraishi
14. Niou

C tier
15. Osval
16.Frankensteiner

 

[Kaoz]

I'm a bit surprised both of you put Fuji so high. Any particular reason?

If memory serves, not too long ago, the Critical Winds weren't considered all that impressive in these types of discussions.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I'm a bit surprised both of you put Fuji so high. Any particular reason?

If memory serves, not too long ago, the Critical Winds weren't considered all that impressive in these types of discussions.

Isn't Duke and Byodoin said that Fuji will be in their level soon? Not verbatm but something among those lines.

But for Current Fuji, I will put him in the level of atobe. In fact, when they played with each other against Australia, I think Fuji is the reason they won. Atobe relied on Fuji to return the australia's fast serves. And Fuji's brain (?) made the australia's serve in a slowmo version.

Fuji is also the only Mser to win against Germany in pre world cup. And that is against Bismarck(Vice Captain), and Siegfried. Yes, Duke is there. but I think Duke is there just to support Fuji.

And remember Fuji still also have his counters on his arsenal. Even he decided to go for critical winds attacking style, when critical winds failed, there is hakuryu(one of the counters) to save the day against germany in pre world cup.

The Top Msers in Japan without any auras are Yukimura, Sanada, Atobe, and Fuji.

If I am right, Fuji did not play yet in the quarterfinals up to now right? Coach Mifune is saving his best players until the right moment like what he is doing on Byodoin and Tanegashima. The same thing can be said for Fuji. Coach Mifune may be hiding Fuji.

There are also a chance that Fuji can play agaist Volk. Ridiculous mismatch. But not impossible!!!!!

I think Fuji deserved his rank for both of me and the poster above me

 

[Kaoz]

Isn't Duke and Byodoin said that Fuji will be in their level soon? Not verbatm but something among those lines.

They said he might get to their level someday. Someday might be soon, but won't necessarily be.

But for Current Fuji, I will put him in the level of atobe. In fact, when they played with each other against Australia, I think Fuji is the reason they won. Atobe relied on Fuji to return the australia's fast serves.

Didn't read that way to me. Atobe already returned a move faster than their serves before the tiebreak, so if it had come down to it, I don't think he would've needed Fuji's return ace. It seemed to me that Atobe drew out the match to give Fuji the opportunity to learn a new move.

If I am right, Fuji did not play yet in the quarterfinals up to now right? Coach Mifune is saving his best players until the right moment like what he is doing on Byodoin and Tanegashima. The same thing can be said for Fuji. Coach Mifune may be hiding Fuji.

But surely Oni and Yukimura are among the best players and they've played this round? I don't know if there's a significant difference between playing this round or next round.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

They said he might get to their level someday. Someday might be soon, but won't necessarily be.



Didn't read that way to me. Atobe already returned a move faster than their serves before the tiebreak, so if it had come down to it, I don't think he would've needed Fuji's return ace. It seemed to me that Atobe drew out the match to give Fuji the opportunity to learn a new move.



But surely Oni and Yukimura are among the best players and they've played this round? I don't know if there's a significant difference between playing this round or next round.

Their statements are still huge hype. They never said that to Ryoma, Kintaro, and others. (IF my memory serves right)

Exactly. Coach Mifune is saving his best players against germany and possibly spain.

In the Quarterfinals, why did they go with Yanagii, Shiraishi, Sanada, and Ryoma???? And not Fuji?

I bet most of you will rank Sanada and Ryoma higher than Fuji. But I personally think he is hidden by Konomi and Mifune for greater highlight/event in the story.

Oni and Duke is used already.

The 3 players(Byodoin, Tanegashima, Tokugawa) that in the conversation for the japan best player are still not playing.

I will be not surprise if Fuji will be one of the big keys for Japan win in semis or finals if they manage to.

 

[Adamska]

Their statements are still huge hype. They never said that to Ryoma, Kintaro, and others. (IF my memory serves right)

Well, Duke played with Fuji, and not just an observer from the bench. The statement was when they were in the group, and Ryoma was on America. Plus Oni said he trained Kintaro to become Japan's ultimate weapon.

 

[felixng2011]

I will rank them currently

S tier
1. Tezuka
2. Yukimura
3. Ryoma
4. Ludovic
5. Bertie
6. Kintaro

A tier
7. Siegrfried
8. Fuji
9. Sanada
10. Akutsu
11. Atobe

B tier
12. Henri
13. Shiraishi
14. Niou

C tier
15. Osval
16.Frankensteiner

Don't see how Niou is ranked so low. He was the MVP for Japan against two pros. If he copies Zeus he 6-0s Shiraishi tbh even if he can't use Zeus at full power.

 

[felixng2011]

He doesn't seem to get the recognition he deserves as a top tier Mser.

In the past he was not as formidable since the people he could copy were not as op and they always had a flaw or two but against the two Germany pros he often looked like the MVP of team Japan.

To be honest I don't think he is any weaker than the Germany pro Bertie.

Lets look at the facts:

He can copy Byodoin aside from glowing shot. This is a pretty big nerf but he can use Kijin and other techs like pirates of the world so he is still very powerful.
He can copy Zeus. Doesn't seem to be a big drop off honestly since he still seemed to have his ability to control the pace and Zeus doesn't have any other special techs besides that.
He can copy Camus. I don't know how much of his power he could copy but he was still undoubtedly at pro level because when he turned into Camus he started to get the upper hand when it was him and Duke vs two pros. As Camus he was already pro level.

We know Niou can pretty much copy anyone and almost all techs. Since he can copy Kijin he might be able to copy TNK too.

Niou is very formidable, in some cases he can use almost the full power of a player. It seems like sometimes he might not be able to use one ability so depending on how useful that ability is the player could be nerfed a good deal. However, he has a lot of versatility since he can switch players which will throw the opposing player off and force them to adjust to a new playstyle. Niou also has no stamina problems, he played 3 sets no problem.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Don't see how Niou is ranked so low. He was the MVP for Japan against two pros. If he copies Zeus he 6-0s Shiraishi tbh even if he can't use Zeus at full power.

We rank them in singles. In doubles, he will be significantly higher.

One problem of Niou is stamina. Remember the Niou/Yagyuu Vs Oishi/Kikumaru? Niou almost ran out of stamina. And Yagyuu takes over. Remember also Niou/Atobe against Mouri/Ochi? Niou also ran out of stamina, thanks to nioutezuka phantom. So atobe takes over.

In a 3 set match, He could probably dominate shiraishi in the first set. But in the second set and third set, his stamina will be a big concern.

Remember Nationals Niou(who can copy Tezuka and Shiraishi) lost to Yagyuu in a singles match. And you can not say that Yagyuu is stronger than Tezuka or shiraishi.

So, same case for the current Niou. Even if he can copy Top Hsers, it will not be 100%, and it will drain a lot of stamina in him.

Honestly if we are ranking based on doubles, Niou could be in the TOP, as in Top1-5. Because in doubles, there will be someone to support him just like what Duke did

 

[mathematicianrcg]

He doesn't seem to get the recognition he deserves as a top tier Mser.

In the past he was not as formidable since the people he could copy were not as op and they always had a flaw or two but against the two Germany pros he often looked like the MVP of team Japan.

To be honest I don't think he is any weaker than the Germany pro Bertie.

Lets look at the facts:

He can copy Byodoin aside from glowing shot. This is a pretty big nerf but he can use Kijin and other techs like pirates of the world so he is still very powerful.
He can copy Zeus. Doesn't seem to be a big drop off honestly since he still seemed to have his ability to control the pace and Zeus doesn't have any other special techs besides that.
He can copy Camus. I don't know how much of his power he could copy but he was still undoubtedly at pro level because when he turned into Camus he started to get the upper hand when it was him and Duke vs two pros. As Camus he was already pro level.

We know Niou can pretty much copy anyone and almost all techs. Since he can copy Kijin he might be able to copy TNK too.

Niou is very formidable, in some cases he can use almost the full power of a player. It seems like sometimes he might not be able to use one ability so depending on how useful that ability is the player could be nerfed a good deal. However, he has a lot of versatility since he can switch players which will throw the opposing player off and force them to adjust to a new playstyle. Niou also has no stamina problems, he played 3 sets no problem.

It depends on what contexts we are discussing. Singles or Doubles?

Doubles. No question, Niou is an elite tier. As he can copy someone that his partner can have howling with. And he will have a partner that will support him.

Singles. I don't think he is that strong as he is in doubles. As his stamina is a big concern in singles.

Nationals Niou(who can copy Tezuka and Shiraishi) lost to Fui and also to Yagyuu.
And we know yagyuu is not better than tezuka and shiraishi.

Oops. Let's calm down. Bertie = Niou????

Bertie is an eliter Mser which is a pro. In a 1 on 1. Bertie would destroy him. As Niou cannot use Nioucamus/duke howling.

Bertie is beating Nioucopies one by one until Noou decided to go with Camus to have howling with Duke.

Doubles- Top Tier
Singles- Middle tier

But that is just for me

 

[felixng2011]

It depends on what contexts we are discussing. Singles or Doubles?

Doubles. No question, Niou is an elite tier. As he can copy someone that his partner can have howling with. And he will have a partner that will support him.

Singles. I don't think he is that strong as he is in doubles. As his stamina is a big concern in singles.

Nationals Niou(who can copy Tezuka and Shiraishi) lost to Fui and also to Yagyuu.
And we know yagyuu is not better than tezuka and shiraishi.

Oops. Let's calm down. Bertie = Niou????

Bertie is an eliter Mser which is a pro. In a 1 on 1. Bertie would destroy him. As Niou cannot use Nioucamus/duke howling.

Bertie is beating Nioucopies one by one until Noou decided to go with Camus to have howling with Duke.

Doubles- Top Tier
Singles- Middle tier

But that is just for me

Well I am not talking about Nationals Niou who was also very good but miles weaker than current Niou since current Niou has access to much better players to copy. Losing to Fuji in a close match isn't exactly a bad thing anyway since he was a top dog. Also remember Fuji took 3 games before he even used illusion. So Fuji started 3-0 before Niou used Tezuka illusion since Niou didn't master the skill yet.

Niou vs Yagyuu was a pointless match. Niou didn't even use illusion in that match he used his base form.

Bertie was not beating Niou copies. Niou used Byo copy and won the first set then the thing that pushed Niou back was that fat dude's giant form not Bertie.
Then Niou used Zeus copy and took a game easily and then Noah copy and took another game.

Niou is very op. We don't know how many players he can copy but if he got the skills of many pro players it will be tough to fight even if he is only 80-90% as good. Every few games he can just keep switching.

We already saw how much Zeus dominated someone as strong as Tanegeshima. Zeus can easily take several games from Bertie before Bertie adjusts and figures out a way to counter. Then when he does adjust, Niou can transform to someone else. Niou has seen a lot of strong players play, he can probably copy guys like Amadeus and other guys on team Japan like Kijin Oni, Tanegeshima, Tokugawa, etc.

I think people really underestimate how much of an MVP Niou was in the pro match. Remember how much Duke got pwned when he had Gin against those 2 Swiss guys. He got pwned 6-1. Then he struggled 2v1 against with Fuji against Bismarck with a score or 7-5. Even 2 v 1 with the strong Fuji and Duke barely won.

Yea sure maybe Niou will ahve stamina issues in singles but he still survived 3 sets in doubles, so we know his stamina isn't exactly bad.

Bottom line until we know of some severe restriction Niou is busted and can compete against top guys. Lets say he has 10 really strong guys he can copy in a singles match. That will be a nightmare for even pros. Even 5 will be tough. Since guys like Camus he can use for an entire set or more depending on who he is facing.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Well I am not talking about Nationals Niou who was also very good but miles weaker than current Niou since current Niou has access to much better players to copy. Losing to Fuji in a close match isn't exactly a bad thing anyway since he was a top dog. Also remember Fuji took 3 games before he even used illusion. So Fuji started 3-0 before Niou used Tezuka illusion since Niou didn't master the skill yet.

Niou vs Yagyuu was a pointless match. Niou didn't even use illusion in that match he used his base form.

Bertie was not beating Niou copies. Niou used Byo copy and won the first set then the thing that pushed Niou back was that fat dude's giant form not Bertie.
Then Niou used Zeus copy and took a game easily and then Noah copy and took another game.

Niou is very op. We don't know how many players he can copy but if he got the skills of many pro players it will be tough to fight even if he is only 80-90% as good. Every few games he can just keep switching.

We already saw how much Zeus dominated someone as strong as Tanegeshima. Zeus can easily take several games from Bertie before Bertie adjusts and figures out a way to counter. Then when he does adjust, Niou can transform to someone else. Niou has seen a lot of strong players play, he can probably copy guys like Amadeus and other guys on team Japan like Kijin Oni, Tanegeshima, Tokugawa, etc.

I think people really underestimate how much of an MVP Niou was in the pro match. Remember how much Duke got pwned when he had Gin against those 2 Swiss guys. He got pwned 6-1. Then he struggled 2v1 against with Fuji against Bismarck with a score or 7-5. Even 2 v 1 with the strong Fuji and Duke barely won.

Yea sure maybe Niou will ahve stamina issues in singles but he still survived 3 sets in doubles, so we know his stamina isn't exactly bad.

Bottom line until we know of some severe restriction Niou is busted and can compete against top guys. Lets say he has 10 really strong guys he can copy in a singles match. That will be a nightmare for even pros. Even 5 will be tough. Since guys like Camus he can use for an entire set or more depending on who he is facing.

As I said, it depends if doubles or singles. Doubles, Niou is an elite tier.

In singles, I can still not put him over tezuka,yukimura,kintaro, or ryoma. And these 4 are only Msers.

i think Niou is on Sanada's level now in SINGLES. And that is a very good tier. Sanada is not weak

 

[felixng2011]

As I said, it depends if doubles or singles. Doubles, Niou is an elite tier.

In singles, I can still not put him over tezuka,yukimura,kintaro, or ryoma. And these 4 are only Msers.

i think Niou is on Sanada's level now in SINGLES. And that is a very good tier. Sanada is not weak

Well it doesn't really matter if they are only msers, all of them are pro level or close.
That said I wouldn't I put him up there with guys like Tezuka, Yuki, Ryomo, Kintaro in singles either just yet. Would need him to show if he can
perform the same in singles to be sure.

For sure he should be in the same tier as guys like Sanada, Atobe, Fuji though maybe even a bit stronger since I don't know how they would be able to deal with copies of Byo, Zeus or Camus even if they are not perfect copies. Byo with Kijin but no GS would still be too much for them.

There is a big gap between the Tezuka and Sanada tier now. Before in POT Sanada was stronger than Tezuka, now Tezuka can crush Sanada. Of course Sanada/Atobe/Fuji will probably get a big powerup though so who knows.

 

[Kaoz]

Global Moderator Notice:
I've merged the Niou thread into this thread. From what I can tell, there's no reason for having it separately, especially considering that comparisons to other MSers are already being made again.~ Kaoz

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Well it doesn't really matter if they are only msers, all of them are pro level or close.
That said I wouldn't I put him up there with guys like Tezuka, Yuki, Ryomo, Kintaro in singles either just yet. Would need him to show if he can
perform the same in singles to be sure.

For sure he should be in the same tier as guys like Sanada, Atobe, Fuji though maybe even a bit stronger since I don't know how they would be able to deal with copies of Byo, Zeus or Camus even if they are not perfect copies. Byo with Kijin but no GS would still be too much for them.

There is a big gap between the Tezuka and Sanada tier now. Before in POT Sanada was stronger than Tezuka, now Tezuka can crush Sanada. Of course Sanada/Atobe/Fuji will probably get a big powerup though so who knows.

HIGH chance Sanada, Fujj, and Atobe will play against Germany or even against Spain/USA.

Of course they will have a powerup. Atobe's evolution as what Irie is saying.

I believe Fuji will do something ridiculous. I will not even be surprised if he will play against Volk(Though Very Unlikely)(and if happen, volk would/should win). But Fuji will put up a good fight.

Sanada, Not sure.Because he already played against Osval.

Again, the weakness of Niou especially in Singles is Stamina. If he have the stamina of Sengoku. Niou will be a pro level player.

 

[erosares286]

HIGH chance Sanada, Fujj, and Atobe will play against Germany or even against Spain/USA.

Of course they will have a powerup. Atobe's evolution as what Irie is saying.

I believe Fuji will do something ridiculous. I will not even be surprised if he will play against Volk(Though Very Unlikely)(and if happen, volk would/should win). But Fuji will put up a good fight.

Sanada, Not sure.Because he already played against Osval.

Again, the weakness of Niou especially in Singles is Stamina. If he have the stamina of Sengoku. Niou will be a pro level player.

Ryoma, Atobe, Kintarou, Fuji, maybe they will play in the Finals if Japan wins against Germany or 3rd place match against USA

 

[mathematicianrcg]

The characters who sure will have a huge powerup are

Ryoma
Fuji
Kintaro
Atobe

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Update Mser Tier (Oct, 15,2020)

SS Tier

Tezuka
Yukimura
(Maybe some Spain Msers will be here soon)

S Tier


Ryoma
Ludovic
Bertie
Kintaro
Akutsu

A Tier

Atobe
Sanada
Fuji
Niou(Just because all of his impressive feats is in doubles)
Siegfried

A-

Henri
Osval
Shiraishi
Frankensteiner