Match Weekly Match-up thread (Seda vs Duke)

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winner

QP

31st Round:

Another of Math's suggestions, following the end of the finals' D2. Tanegashima found a way out of Zeus' desert, but can Duke do the same against Seda?

Picture	Seda Hardy May 13, 2024	Duke Hardy Oct 23, 2023
Name	Seda	Duke Watanabe
Title	Troublemaker	The Destroyer
Rank	Spain Representative (MSer Year 1)	No. 3 (HSer Year 3)
Height	-	192 cm
Weight	-	88 kg
Dominant Hand	Right (Ambidextrous?)	Right
Playstyle	-	Aggressive Baseliner
Stat Total	?	27
Speed	?	5
Power	?	7
Stamina	?	5
Mental	?	5
Technique	?	5
Techniques / Styles	Reverse Copy Olympian Iris' Light	Duke Homerun Play Ball! Duke Bunt Destruction (not listed) Duke Buster (not listed) Ki Jin (not listed)

Duke's 10.5 profile.

Duke's 23.5 profile.

Duke's tenipuri party profile.

Zeus' 23.5 profile

I'm not listing Seda's hypnosis since he seemingly stopped using it and it can be countered with freaking ear plugs.

...tho, for all intents and purposes, he can play aggressively as he did against Japan.

Will add a poll on Wednesday.

 

[Hardy]

But that's already Rainbow Seda who is already dominating Kintarou+Ohmagari before that and Ohmagari who is useless against that Seda already. And Kintarou handle BOTH of them with that useless Ohmagari. He's the reason that they hold their ground. Mares only manage to stop Kintarou from dominating with that white flame upgrade but didn't manage to get the upper hand which he absolutely should get with Ohmagari who is off their league and Seda whom upgrade seem to suggest that he's already impacting the match more and he himself already is stronger than Ohmagari at that point.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024, Original Post Date: May 7, 2024 ---

Byoudonin couldn't beat Mouri/Ochi and only get 3-6. Kintarou is going on par with Seda and Mares who both seem to be much stronger than Mouri and Ochi, although probably worst at that doubles bonus.

I'm not saying he is on par with them, but there's some arguments for it. And there's a reason I say I think QP win this instead Mares, and it's because I would put current Kintarou on par with QP.

Hm, what points are you talking about? I'm mostly referring to the final set when everyone had their upgrades and were relatively OK, and all the players consistently kept their serves -with Kin and Mares going as far as pretty much having all their serves unreturned. If it was singles it would had gone forever since no one could touch either serve -or until Kin's power lowered / Mares' screwed up his Sniper.

Byoudouin was heavily injured and seemingly considered himself worse than Duke -as otherwise he'd be Tokugawa's final change instead of asking for it. According to Mouri, Byoudouin-Oni weren't playing proper doubles either.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024 ---

UA QP > WF Mares

Simple Explanation:

Ultimate Aura - Implied to be equal to 3 Radiances TNK combined

White Flame - equal to Evolved TNK of Kontarou which more or less equivalent to 2 TNK Combined. (Even if @Hardy is right that it is not 2 combined radiances, an evolved single TNK is most likeley equal to it anyway)

In short:

UA QP = 3 TNK Combined

White Flame Mares = 2 TNK Combined

By definition, UA QP > WF Mares

This comparison is rather moot, there's nothing that suggest anything you said is correct. The Ultimate Aura is just a new aura. Kin's new TnK is just an evolved TnK. Kin's evolved TnK could very well be stronger than the Ultimate Aura, we don't know.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024 ---

We know the first one is true, but nothing suggest second one though. It's more on that Ochi and Mouri manage to got howling which boost them to another level as a doubles pair in that match. We know how Oishi/Kikumaru was best pair in original PoT and they certainly can't beat any top tier in singles.

Mouri in 375 says his opponents "don't understand doubles".

You are right about their Howling, though. There's a chance that it's what they needed to finally break the serve of Byodouin/Oni.

 

[-Ken-]

Hm, what points are you talking about? I'm mostly referring to the final set when everyone had their upgrades and were relatively OK, and all the players consistently kept their serves -with Kin and Mares going as far as pretty much having all their serves unreturned. If it was singles it would had gone forever since no one could touch either serve -or until Kin's power lowered / Mares' screwed up his Sniper.

I'm talking about the fact that everyone had their upgrade and Mares and Seda was keeping their serves because Ohmagari is part of opponents pair. If a G5 player was Kintarou partner at that point then Japan should have perform better.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

This comparison is rather moot, there's nothing that suggest anything you said is correct. The Ultimate Aura is just a new aura. Kin's new TnK is just an evolved TnK. Kin's evolved TnK could very well be stronger than the Ultimate Aura, we don't know.

Ultimate Aura can only be achieved if you are exposed in all 3 radiances of TNK. Doesnt it imply it is equal to the combined power of Radiance of Joy, Strongheart, and Pain?

Unless, you are estimating Kintarou's New Aura (Which you actually think only 1 Improved TNK instead of 2 TNK) is on par with UA. I don't think so imo.

If Ryoma or Ryoga use Ultimate Aura. I am sure the consensus opinion will be that aura is stronger than Kin's. For some reason. Lol

Also,

In my eyes. UA QP dominated TNK Oni with Demon Kijin.

WF Mares and Improved TNK Kintarou cannot dominate each other.

(Though you can argue the last 2 are slightly stronger than Oni. I am not sure they can dominate TNK Oni With Demon Kijin)

Anyways, Mares is a very strong player. Stronger than Bismarck and Base QP. But Imo, weaker than UA QP.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

I'm talking about the fact that everyone had their upgrade and Mares and Seda was keeping their serves because Ohmagari is part of opponents pair. If a G5 player was Kintarou partner at that point then Japan should have perform better.

Interesting.

If Tanegashima or Duke is Kin's partner. You think Japan would wil against Mares/Seda???

That will be a battle of 4 G5 level players on the court. Wow.

It will still be 50-50 imo

 

[-Ken-]

Interesting.

If Tanegashima or Duke is Kin's partner. You think Japan would wil against Mares/Seda???

That will be a battle of 4 G5 level players on the court. Wow.
It will still be 50-50 imo

It shouldn't be 50/50 because they are already going head to head with Ohmagari as Kintarou partner. The Spain team only edge it out by one time syncho trick at the end. That's why I think Kintarou is better than both Mares and Seda, big enough to substitute for the gap between them and Ohmagari anyways.

Ohmagari's certainly helpful in unlocking Kintarou's Upgraded PoP, but his playstyle with Kintarou isn't particularly praise unlike Ohmagari/Kite or Yukimura/Yanagi or Kirihara/Tanegashima. After Kintarou upgrade is already received, other partner should be more useful.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

It shouldn't be 50/50 because they are already going head to head with Ohmagari as Kintarou partner. The Spain team only edge it out by one time syncho trick at the end. That's why I think Kintarou is better than both Mares and Seda, big enough to substitute for the gap between them and Ohmagari anyways.

Ohmagari's certainly helpful in unlocking Kintarou's Upgraded PoP, but his playstyle with Kintarou isn't particularly praise unlike Ohmagari/Kite or Yukimura/Yanagi or Kirihara/Tanegashima. After Kintarou upgrade is already received, other partner should be more useful.

Let's say Oni is Kintarou's partner. (Since konomi thought of that idea in semis)

I don't think Oni/Kin will break Mares Sniper Serves.

On the flip side. Mares/Seda cannot break TNK2 Kintarou Serve.

So, it will be a matter of. Which serve will be broken first? Seda's or Oni's.

Mares adjusted Groundstroke Serve already countered slices. So that will give Kin/Oni some trouble.

Oni has TNK with Kijin though. So that will give them an advantage. And probably win the doubles. But only because I think Oni > Seda.

What I am saying is Mares and Kin are probably in same tier.

And if they play singles. It will be a matter of stamina.

 

[-Ken-]

What I am saying is Mares and Kin are probably in same tier.

And if they play singles. It will be a matter of stamina.

If Mares and Kintarou are same tier, then Ohmagari is even to Seda because score are dead even? We know that's not the case and Seda upgrade and Mares pre flame can even handle Ohmagari and Kintarou that manage to almost perfect score Tanegashima (G5 level)/Shiraishi) pair.

Mares/Seda was shown to play together just like Kintarou/Ohmagari. There isn't much praise toward that. Doubles bonus for both side seems pretty even.

I don't think that's the case.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

If Mares and Kintarou are same tier, then Ohmagari is even to Seda because score are dead even? We know that's not the case and Seda upgrade and Mares pre flame can even handle Ohmagari and Kintarou that manage to almost perfect score Tanegashima (G5 level)/Shiraishi) pair.

Mares/Seda was shown to play together just like Kintarou/Ohmagari. There isn't much praise toward that. Doubles bonus for both side seems pretty even.

I don't think that's the case.

I mean Kin/Ohma are playing proper doubles.

Mares/Seda are literally stealing each other spotlight. Even Synchro is forced by stealing spotlight by Sedah.

So I think Ohma/Kin have more doubles bonus.

Anyways,

If we will ignore their partners. As hardy said

If it is 1 V 1 between Mares and Kin.

Mares Cannot Return Kintarous Serve. Kintarou cannot Return Sniper Serve too. He didn't even once.

So by that, it will be a battle of attrition. Unless you believe Kin will eventually retun sniper serve. That we are not sure of.

 

[LetalHawk]

I'm talking about the fact that everyone had their upgrade and Mares and Seda was keeping their serves because Ohmagari is part of opponents pair. If a G5 player was Kintarou partner at that point then Japan should have perform better.

I agree, Ohmagari didn’t have the tools to fight head on Mares/Seda after they all got their upgrades. It’s incredible how much Kin outshined Ohmagari and how much stronger he is than him.

If it was Tane/Kin or another player from G5 they would have fared much better. With Tanegashima they would have won for sure.

 

[-Ken-]

I agree, Ohmagari didn’t have the tools to fight head on Mares/Seda after they all got their upgrades. It’s incredible how much Kin outshined Ohmagari and how much stronger he is than him.

If it was Tane/Kin or another player from G5 they would have fared much better. With Tanegashima they would have won for sure.

True, but with Tanegashima Kintarou might not necessary have the upgrade and might simply lost the match when Seda have his upgrade. So that's where Ohmagari credit might be given. This match is great for Japan and Kintarou future.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

I mean Kin/Ohma are playing proper doubles.

Mares/Seda are literally stealing each other spotlight. Even Synchro is forced by stealing spotlight by Sedah.

They're stealing each other spotlight because they both are strong player of G5 level. It's not because they didn't work well together. We seen them work well and Mares use his partner quite often after the white flame upgrade.

 

[Hardy]

I'm talking about the fact that everyone had their upgrade and Mares and Seda was keeping their serves because Ohmagari is part of opponents pair. If a G5 player was Kintarou partner at that point then Japan should have perform better.

But again, we never saw Mares' serves returned, so just piling it on Ohmagari is disingenuous. Also the Japanese were countering Sniper using slices (including Seda's service games), but this stopped working towards the end of the match.

Seda wasn't close to Mares and Kintarou. Yes, Tanegashima would had been better than Ohmagari, but you can also say he would had been better for Mares than Seda.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

But again, we never saw Mares' serves returned, so just piling it on Ohmagari is disingenuous. Also the Japanese were countering Sniper using slices (including Seda's service games), but this stopped working towards the end of the match.

Seda wasn't close to Mares and Kintarou. Yes, Tanegashima would had been better than Ohmagari, but you can also say he would had been better for Mares than Seda.

This is also my thought.

Mares never lost a Service Game using her Real Sniper in the match

So Far only Ochi's Warp and Mares Sniper have those feats in terms of special serves

 

[Hardy]

Ultimate Aura can only be achieved if you are exposed in all 3 radiances of TNK. Doesnt it imply it is equal to the combined power of Radiance of Joy, Strongheart, and Pain?

No, it doesn't imply that.

Unless, you are estimating Kintarou's New Aura (Which you actually think only 1 Improved TNK instead of 2 TNK) is on par with UA. I don't think so imo.

It very well could be, the aura was praised by absolutely everyone (including Oni, QP and Volk).

Also,

In my eyes. UA QP dominated TNK Oni with Demon Kijin.

WF Mares and Improved TNK Kintarou cannot dominate each other.

(Though you can argue the last 2 are slightly stronger than Oni. I am not sure they can dominate TNK Oni With Demon Kijin)

Anyways, Mares is a very strong player. Stronger than Bismarck and Base QP. But Imo, weaker than UA QP.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

Interesting.

If Tanegashima or Duke is Kin's partner. You think Japan would wil against Mares/Seda???

That will be a battle of 4 G5 level players on the court. Wow.

It will still be 50-50 imo

Oni's Demon started manifesting only towards the end of the match, right before Volk said Oni could turn it around and make a comeback.


WF" Mares and Confidence! Kintarou weren't touching each other's serves, it doesn't get more dominating than that.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024 ---

It shouldn't be 50/50 because they are already going head to head with Ohmagari as Kintarou partner. The Spain team only edge it out by one time syncho trick at the end. That's why I think Kintarou is better than both Mares and Seda, big enough to substitute for the gap between them and Ohmagari anyways.

Ohmagari's certainly helpful in unlocking Kintarou's Upgraded PoP, but his playstyle with Kintarou isn't particularly praise unlike Ohmagari/Kite or Yukimura/Yanagi or Kirihara/Tanegashima. After Kintarou upgrade is already received, other partner should be more useful.

Again, Japan's counter for Mares' Sniper stopped working so the Japanese were the ones in the back foot. Had the match prolonged, they'd had likely lost anyway.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

No, it doesn't imply that.




It very well could be, the aura was praised by absolutely everyone (including Oni, QP and Volk).



Oni's Demon started manifesting only towards the end of the match, right before Volk said Oni could turn it around and make a comeback.

QP was up 5-0, 40-0 (iirc). I dont think Oni can comeback from that. Also Oni's last shot was out. Meaning to say Oni's TNK + Demon doesn't have The Best Control against UA QP. (Mirroring Fuji's last Hakugei attempt against Shiraishi where Fuji hit out)

 

[Hardy]

If Mares and Kintarou are same tier, then Ohmagari is even to Seda because score are dead even? We know that's not the case and Seda upgrade and Mares pre flame can even handle Ohmagari and Kintarou that manage to almost perfect score Tanegashima (G5 level)/Shiraishi) pair.

Mares/Seda was shown to play together just like Kintarou/Ohmagari. There isn't much praise toward that. Doubles bonus for both side seems pretty even.

I don't think that's the case.

You can easily argue that the score was even because Mares couldn't use Sniper at all in the 3/4 games he didn't serve. Since it was doubles he was playing handicapped.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

WF" Mares and Confidence! Kintarou weren't touching each other's serves, it doesn't get more dominating than that.

Exactly. So they are even. Not dominating the other one.

Dominating = (Dominating your Own Serves + Dominating your Opponent's Serve)

Right?

 

[Hardy]

QP was up 5-0, 40-0 (iirc). I dont think Oni can comeback from that. Also Oni's last shot was out. Meaning to say Oni's TNK + Demon doesn't have The Best Control against UA QP. (Mirroring Fuji's last Hakugei attempt against Shiraishi where Fuji hit out)

If the best player in the world says something (in-universe), us as readers should just take it for granted, imo. It's pretty much Konomi talking through him.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

Exactly. So they are even. Not dominating the other one.

Dominating = (Dominating your Own Serves + Dominating your Opponent's Serve)

Right?

Oh, I understood you wrong.

Poll is up!

 

[mathematicianrcg]

If the best player in the world says something (in-universe), us as readers should just take it for granted, imo. It's pretty much Konomi talking through him.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

Oh, I understood you wrong.

Or maybe You want a stronger term.

What do we call if a Player dominates his own serve, and his opponents serve?

Destroyed??? No diffed? .

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024 ---

If the best player in the world says something (in-universe), us as readers should just take it for granted, imo. It's pretty much Konomi talking through him.

Yes. But sometimes he is wrong though.

For ex:

He confidently said to Tezuka that Doubles Pro can overcome any challenges from Duke/Niou because they are pros.

But Doubles Pro still lost because they did not expect Niou will copy Niou himself. Even Volk miscalculated that possibility.

He also said Japan Was Over when Bismarck serve past Tanegashima. Did not calculate that Akaya will come back and return the serve.

 

[Hardy]

Or maybe You want a stronger term.

What do we call if a Player dominates his own serve, and his opponents serve?

Destroyed??? No diffed? .

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024 ---

Yes. But sometimes he is wrong though.

For ex:

He confidently said to Tezuka that Doubles Pro can overcome any challenges from Duke/Niou because they are pros.

But Doubles Pro still lost because they did not expect Niou will copy Niou himself. Even Volk miscalculated that possibility.

He also said Japan Was Over when Bismarck serve past Tanegashima. Did not calculate that Akaya will come back and return the serve.

I mean, sure, but those are different scenarios. Again, if you interpret it as author talk then it's just Konomi raising the bar for Japan's accomplishments and making his chapters more epic.

What could Volk had missed in QP to be wrong? In the examples you used Kirihara came back from the dead in the exact second he needed to; and the Pros half-assed their entire match, Duke/Niou got a Howling, and they still almost won.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I mean, sure, but those are different scenarios. Again, if you interpret it as author talk then it's just Konomi raising the bar for Japan's accomplishments and making his chapters more epic.

What could Volk had missed in QP to be wrong? In the examples you used Kirihara came back from the dead in the exact second he needed to; and the Pros half-assed their entire match, Duke/Niou got a Howling, and they still almost won.

Volk probably didn't know QP calculated that the spin of the ball is not enough. So it will be out. QP explained it to Lendoll and all Germans when he went back to the bench.

Buy anyways, yeah. Maybe Konomi is talking thru Volk.

 

[-Ken-]

But again, we never saw Mares' serves returned, so just piling it on Ohmagari is disingenuous. Also the Japanese were countering Sniper using slices (including Seda's service games), but this stopped working towards the end of the match.

Seda wasn't close to Mares and Kintarou. Yes, Tanegashima would had been better than Ohmagari, but you can also say he would had been better for Mares than Seda.

No, it's not. Ohmagari is worthless and couldn't even handle Rainbow Aura Seda resulting in straight 7-0 game loss for Japan.I It's only when Kintarou got upgrade that Japan manage to counter back at all. And since Ohmagari receive no upgrade since then, that means he's also worthless for the rest of the match and Kintarou is the one pulling the weight. They manage to hold Ohmagari serve mainly because of Kintarou and Ohmagari is pretty much replacable at that point when Kintarou got his upgrade already.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

You can easily argue that the score was even because Mares couldn't use Sniper at all in the 3/4 games he didn't serve. Since it was doubles he was playing handicapped.

But we also know Ohmagari is already worthless and can't do shit against Rainbow Aura Seda and Pre-White Flame Mares so at that point Kintarou is the one mainly holding the fort and have to clearly expends more efforts than usual to fight 2 players. I don't know how that's not essentially a handicapped. Being unable to break a serve with Ohmagari is NOT on Spain favor because of how outmatch Ohmagari is. Being able to hold his serve with Ohmagari as handicapped at that point is a point in Kintarou favor.

Kintarou can fight 2 G5 level players with non G5 as handicapped partner and of course some people will still look down on his feats lol.