Match Weekly Match-up thread (Seda vs Duke)

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winner

QP

31st Round:

Another of Math's suggestions, following the end of the finals' D2. Tanegashima found a way out of Zeus' desert, but can Duke do the same against Seda?

Picture	Seda Hardy May 13, 2024	Duke Hardy Oct 23, 2023
Name	Seda	Duke Watanabe
Title	Troublemaker	The Destroyer
Rank	Spain Representative (MSer Year 1)	No. 3 (HSer Year 3)
Height	-	192 cm
Weight	-	88 kg
Dominant Hand	Right (Ambidextrous?)	Right
Playstyle	-	Aggressive Baseliner
Stat Total	?	27
Speed	?	5
Power	?	7
Stamina	?	5
Mental	?	5
Technique	?	5
Techniques / Styles	Reverse Copy Olympian Iris' Light	Duke Homerun Play Ball! Duke Bunt Destruction (not listed) Duke Buster (not listed) Ki Jin (not listed)

Duke's 10.5 profile.

Duke's 23.5 profile.

Duke's tenipuri party profile.

Zeus' 23.5 profile

I'm not listing Seda's hypnosis since he seemingly stopped using it and it can be countered with freaking ear plugs.

...tho, for all intents and purposes, he can play aggressively as he did against Japan.

Will add a poll on Wednesday.

 

[Hardy]

No, it's not. Ohmagari is worthless and couldn't even handle Rainbow Aura Seda resulting in straight 7-0 game loss for Japan.I It's only when Kintarou got upgrade that Japan manage to counter back at all. And since Ohmagari receive no upgrade since then, that means he's also worthless for the rest of the match and Kintarou is the one pulling the weight. They manage to hold Ohmagari serve mainly because of Kintarou and Ohmagari is pretty much replacable at that point when Kintarou got his upgrade already.

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2024, Original Post Date: May 8, 2024 ---

But we also know Ohmagari is already worthless and can't do shit against Rainbow Aura Seda and Pre-White Flame Mares so at that point Kintarou is the one mainly holding the fort and have to clearly expends more efforts than usual to fight 2 players. I don't know how that's not essentially a handicapped. Being unable to break a serve with Ohmagari is NOT on Spain favor because of how outmatch Ohmagari is. Being able to hold his serve with Ohmagari as handicapped at that point is a point in Kintarou favor.

Kintarou can fight 2 G5 level players with non G5 as handicapped partner and of course some people will still look down on his feats lol.

Ohmagari's serve is likely stronger than Seda's and so is his experience in doubles in order to playmake -he's even the one finding ways to play against the Spanish whereas Kin just powered through.

TnK Kintarou couldn't handle Rainbow Aura Seda either, that doesn't make him weak. We saw Ohmagari pressure Spain and even score a couple of times AFTER Seda unlocked the Rainbow Aura, he certainly wasn't worthless -to the point that he was key for Japan to earn the 2 points we saw them win in the final game.

Ohmagari was barely standing around in the Pre-WF points when Kin was playing 1v2. That wasn't the case in the final set, the one we are discussing to make comparisons.

 

[-Ken-]

Ohmagari's serve is likely stronger than Seda's and so is his experience in doubles in order to playmake -he's even the one finding ways to play against the Spanish whereas Kin just powered through.

TnK Kintarou couldn't handle Rainbow Aura Seda either, that doesn't make him weak. We saw Ohmagari pressure Spain and even score a couple of times AFTER Seda unlocked the Rainbow Aura, he certainly wasn't worthless -to the point that he was key for Japan to earn the 2 points we saw them win in the final game.

Ohmagari was barely standing around in the Pre-WF points when Kin was playing 1v2. That wasn't the case in the final set, the one we are discussing to make comparisons.

But still a G5 player would have been more useful and better and that point, and Kintarou still largely carry the team in the third set.

Ohmagari is simply outmatch. You are right that TnK Kintarou couldn't handle Rainbow Aura Seda either, that DOES make that TnK Kintarou weak compare to Rainbow Aura Seda. Ohmagari is WEAK compare to Rainbow Aura Seda. Therefore, he is more worthless compare to Seda. Seda clearly have more value for the match than he does. How much more value? Enough to shut down Ohmagari 7-1. That's how much the minimum differences in value there is between the two. The end match Kintarou simply have enough value to carry Ohmagari for that differences in value of 7-1 against Rainbow Seda in the second set AND the upgrade White Flame Mares.

 

[Hardy]

But still a G5 player would have been more useful and better and that point, and Kintarou still largely carry the team in the third set.

Ohmagari is simply outmatch. You are right that TnK Kintarou couldn't handle Rainbow Aura Seda either, that DOES make that TnK Kintarou weak compare to Rainbow Aura Seda. Ohmagari is WEAK compare to Rainbow Aura Seda. Therefore, he is more worthless compare to Seda. Seda clearly have more value for the match than he does. How much more value? Enough to shut down Ohmagari 7-1. That's how much the minimum differences in value there is between the two. The end match Kintarou simply have enough value to carry Ohmagari for that differences in value of 7-1 against Rainbow Seda in the second set AND the upgrade White Flame Mares.

But this is just implying that both players are supporting their partners in the same way and that their abilities combo similarly, too.

Konomi went out of his way to show Ohmagari scoring twice on his own against full power Mares/Seda and then he set up Kin's finishers other 2 times. In the same period of time -outside of aces- he showed Kintarou scoring once on his own -the ace-return against Seda- and then the 2 finishers I previously mentioned. Evidently, Ohmagari wasn't useless in that third set - which you may blame on bad writing, since he wasn't really doing anything different against Seda.

We are going way off topic, though, unless there's a train of thought I'm missing. It's Mares vs QP.

I'm rather surprised that QP is getting pretty much all the votes since not even Confidence! Kintarou stood a chance against Mares' serves and the Spanish can paralyse QP when he isn't serving, too. Mares was even meant to train with Bismarck, whose base tennis is better than QP's (and the Spanish players indicate that there's not many people out there that can rally with Mares). On top of that we just learnt that it's pretty much impossible to keep TnK on for 3 sets and 321 implies QP's aura is some sort of TnK.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

.

We are going way off topic, though, unless there's a train of thought I'm missing. It's Mares vs QP.

I'm rather surprised that QP is getting pretty much all the votes since not even Confidence! Kintarou stood a chance against Mares' serves and the Spanish can paralyse QP when he isn't serving, too. Mares was even meant to train with Bismarck, whose base tennis is better than QP's (and the Spanish players indicate that there's not many people out there that can rally with Mares). On top of that we just learnt that it's pretty much impossible to keep TnK on for 3 sets and 321 implies QP's aura is some sort of TnK.

Yeah. Mares is very very strong. She deserve to be in the same tier as QP.

To be fair, We didnt know if White Flame Aura can also be used in 3 sets too. The only Aura we saw for the longest is Rainbow Aura by Seda with 2 sets.

Mares will not be able to touch UA QP Serve too. And I believe QP is smarter enough to use slice against Mares. And Mares took some time before she learned how to counter slices.

On the other hand. Mares Sniper Serve will service ace QP as always. We never saw it returned. So impossible to say how is her serve can be broken.

But we can do the same logic against top players

Like if someone said:

"Mares Sniper Serve will service aced Volk".

A common response will be "We can safely assume Volk is skilled enough to counter sniper with his base tennis". Lol
(Or Byo strength will resist sniper paralysis serve)

 

[LetalHawk]

I’m sure Tokugawa can stop the sniper by using a Black Hole shield. The thing is he has a time limit so he isn’t getting away from being paralyzed if he stops using it.

He has the grip that he used vs Duke Homerun and Wirbeltaufe though. That might work if he’s fast enough.

 

[Hardy]

Yeah. Mares is very very strong. She deserve to be in the same tier as QP.

To be fair, We didnt know if White Flame Aura can also be used in 3 sets too. The only Aura we saw for the longest is Rainbow Aura by Seda with 2 sets.

Mares will not be able to touch UA QP Serve too. And I believe QP is smarter enough to use slice against Mares. And Mares took some time before she learned how to counter slices.

On the other hand. Mares Sniper Serve will service ace QP as always. We never saw it returned. So impossible to say how is her serve can be broken.

But we can do the same logic against top players

Like if someone said:

"Mares Sniper Serve will service aced Volk".

A common response will be "We can safely assume Volk is skilled enough to counter sniper with his base tennis". Lol
(Or Byo strength will resist sniper paralysis serve)

Why wouldn't White Flame last 3 sets? It doesn't drain stamina like Muga nor require a certain mood like TnK (and the Rainbow Aura?) did... it doesn't require anything, seemingly.

Why wouldn't Mares touch QP's serves? Oni shouldn't be any faster than WF Mares "who plays like a Hare" and in 283 he was catching up to QP's serves. How was he going to turn the match around if he couldn't?

10.5: Speed - ?: There is nothing to criticize, but his movements for covering the left and right sides seem just a bit delayed. He may want to consider strengthening his explosiveness.

QP's slices will just let him rally for longer, since Mares overcame most of that weakness. At the same time slices are, for the most part, defensive shots so it'd only be prolonging the inevitable (unless he can magically teleport to the net).

I’m sure Tokugawa can stop the sniper by using a Black Hole shield. The thing is he has a time limit so he isn’t getting away from being paralyzed if he stops using it.

He has the grip that he used vs Duke Homerun and Wirbeltaufe though. That might work if he’s fast enough.

Tokugawa isn't playing here though.

 

[LetalHawk]

If we put QP with ultimate Aura on a higher level than Kin’s two tnks I hardly see Mares overcoming it. It depends on how much powerful WF actually is but at least we know she’s equal to TnK2 kin. If QP’s even beyond that Mares only has his snipers left which could paralyze QP’s arm and play with that to score.

QP should eventually find a counter to the sniper but it’s been hinted it’s almost impossible to avoid.

Mares did overcome the slices weakness but, we don’t know if she can’t actually keep up with UA fast slices though.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

If we put QP with ultimate Aura on a higher level than Kin’s two tnks I hardly see Mares overcoming it. It depends on how much powerful WF actually is but at least we know she’s equal to TnK2 kin. If QP’s even beyond that Mares only has his snipers left which could paralyze QP’s arm and play with that to score.

QP should eventually find a counter to the sniper but it’s been hinted it’s almost impossible to avoid.

Mares did overcome the slices weakness but, we don’t know if she can’t actually keep up with UA fast slices though.

The problem against Mares is even if a player is generally stronger than her. If that stronger player doesn't have any arsenal to return Mares Sniper Serves. It will always be a game of endurance by keeping their serves always.

It is like Yukimura's Yips/Dream case.

Intra Tourney Fuji gave Ryoma a tough time. Imo, a significantly tougher time than Yuki would if he played against Ryoma. But if you 1 V 1 thread Yuki and Fuji. Yuki always win because his hax beats Fuji no matter how generally could be Fuji be stronger in the future.

 

[Hardy]

If we put QP with ultimate Aura on a higher level than Kin’s two tnks I hardly see Mares overcoming it. It depends on how much powerful WF actually is but at least we know she’s equal to TnK2 kin. If QP’s even beyond that Mares only has his snipers left which could paralyze QP’s arm and play with that to score.

QP should eventually find a counter to the sniper but it’s been hinted it’s almost impossible to avoid.

Mares did overcome the slices weakness but, we don’t know if she can’t actually keep up with UA fast slices though.

Kin has a single strong TnK. There really isn't anything for us to compare it with QP's aura except that him, Volk and Oni were impressed and said it was shining brighter than any Light before.

Why wouldn't Mares keep up with slices?

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I love how is this Mares VS QP thread.

But we always use Kintarou and Oni as their estimator of parameter. Lol

The same way we use Tanegashima, Zeus, and Bismarck as estimator of each other. Lol

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2024, Original Post Date: May 10, 2024 ---

I'm rather surprised that QP is getting pretty much all the votes since not even Confidence! Kintarou stood a chance against Mares' serves and the Spanish can paralyse QP when he isn't serving, too. Mares was even meant to train with Bismarck, whose base tennis is better than QP's (and the Spanish players indicate that there's not many people out there that can rally with Mares). On top of that we just learnt that it's pretty much impossible to keep TnK on for 3 sets and 321 implies QP's aura is some sort of TnK.

It is the domination effect.

We saw UA QP literally destroys TNK with Demon (in last games) Oni both in Service and Return Games. To the point Oni break his wrists.

Meanwhile TNK2Kin and WF Mares can only won their serves against each other.

So, the side effect will be, If you want to argue against QP, You will need to make an argument that TNK Oni with Demon Kijin is significantly weaker than Kintarou and/or Mares.

 

[-Ken-]

But this is just implying that both players are supporting their partners in the same way and that their abilities combo similarly, too.

Konomi went out of his way to show Ohmagari scoring twice on his own against full power Mares/Seda and then he set up Kin's finishers other 2 times. In the same period of time -outside of aces- he showed Kintarou scoring once on his own -the ace-return against Seda- and then the 2 finishers I previously mentioned. Evidently, Ohmagari wasn't useless in that third set - which you may blame on bad writing, since he wasn't really doing anything different against Seda.

We are going way off topic, though, unless there's a train of thought I'm missing. It's Mares vs QP.

He's indeed not doing anything different against Seda, and it's because Kintarou that was stronger that they stand a chance. Both of them just isn't capable of beating Seda before, and then Kintarou was boost so high that they stand a chance.

And yes, I'm assuming that doubles bonus of the pair is the same since it's not explicitly stated or praised. NPoT do stated whenever the chemistry is better than usual like Tanegashima/Akaya or Yukimura/Yanagi. We saw Mares used Seda in his playing style too.

I believe Kintarou is stronger than Mares because he need to fight Mares and Seda with carrying Ohmagari on his back that's why. And the train of thoughts you're missing is what I post earlier that I think Kintarou is minimum on the level of QP as well so I didn't think Mares stand a shot because Mares limit is being only able to go even to even game even when enemy got non G5 level player.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

He's indeed not doing anything different against Seda, and it's because Kintarou that was stronger that they stand a chance. Both of them just isn't capable of beating Seda before, and then Kintarou was boost so high that they stand a chance.

And yes, I'm assuming that doubles bonus of the pair is the same since it's not explicitly stated or praised. NPoT do stated whenever the chemistry is better than usual like Tanegashima/Akaya or Yukimura/Yanagi. We saw Mares used Seda in his playing style too.

I believe Kintarou is stronger than Mares because he need to fight Mares and Seda with carrying Ohmagari on his back that's why. And the train of thoughts you're missing is what I post earlier that I think Kintarou is minimum on the level of QP as well so I didn't think Mares stand a shot because Mares limit is being only able to go even to even game even when enemy got non G5 level player.

I will say maximum of QP level not minimum.

If it is minimum QP level. You are implying Kintarou is probably as strong as Volk and Byoudouin (and Medanore). Not ready to put Kin at that monster trio tier yet.

PS: Singles I mean

 

[-Ken-]

I will say maximum of QP level not minimum.

If it is minimum QP level. You are implying Kintarou is probably as strong as Volk and Byoudouin (and Medanore). Not ready to put Kin at that monster trio tier yet.

PS: Singles I mean

He's already to me already above Mares because he's handling him AND Seda together with non G5 player that already confirmed not being able to handle Rainbow Aura Seda. Kintarou/Ohmagari have been shown to being able to handle someone on Tanegashima level already by the score of 7-1. That's former #2 player of Japan. I'm not saying Seda is stronger than Tanegashima, but Seda/Pre-White Flame Mares is better together than Tanegashima/Shiraishi. Hence, it's at the level of QP as a minimum.

There's nothing that suggest his current level maximum is QP. Putting Volk/Byoudonin in Kintarou place doesn't 100% mean that Volk or Byoudonin/Ohmagari would be able to beat Mares/Seda pair. We know Byoudonin couldn't beat Mouri/Ochi howling and we know Volk isn't capable of beating Pro pair either. Mares/Seda pair barely edge a win against Kintarou/Ohmagari. Current Kintarou is somewhere between QP to those top level, but we just don't know exactly where he's at.

I'm PERSONALLY guessing it's at QP level, and that's why I consider Mares lower than QP. But if anyone think Mares can beat QP and doesn't think Kintarou is above QP level then they have a weird logic that's probably call I don't like Kintarou.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

He's already to me already above Mares because he's handling him AND Seda together with non G5 player that already confirmed not being able to handle Rainbow Aura Seda. Kintarou/Ohmagari have been shown to being able to handle someone on Tanegashima level already by the score of 7-1. That's former #2 player of Japan. I'm not saying Seda is stronger than Tanegashima, but Seda/Pre-White Flame Mares is better together than Tanegashima/Shiraishi. Hence, it's at the level of QP as a minimum.

There's nothing that suggest his current level maximum is QP. Putting Volk/Byoudonin in Kintarou place doesn't 100% mean that Volk or Byoudonin/Ohmagari would be able to beat Mares/Seda pair. We know Byoudonin couldn't beat Mouri/Ochi howling and we know Volk isn't capable of beating Pro pair either. Mares/Seda pair barely edge a win against Kintarou/Ohmagari. Current Kintarou is somewhere between QP to those top level, but we just don't know exactly where he's at.

I'm PERSONALLY guessing it's at QP level, and that's why I consider Mares lower than QP. But if anyone think Mares can beat QP and doesn't think Kintarou is above QP level then they have a weird logic that's probably call I don't like Kintarou.

I see.

Personally I have QP above both Mares and Kintarou to be honest.

 

[Adamska]

Q.P of course.
His base actually is good enough to beats some TNK users.
Then he was 3-0 vs Oni before he uses TNK.
Not to mention they put Oni S3 as power player who supposed to destroy Q.P, yet he shows he has a strong stomach despite of his looks.
It's obvious Oni strongest in Japan, and then we have Kintarou who, he's serves blown away Mare's rocket.
Though I admit that Kintarou become stronger, yet he still lots way to work on, in order to pass Oni's.
I think thought these are not absolute facts, but enough to say: Q.P base tennis definitely is way above Mares. And with UQ, he is in top tier than him. To be precise: He can challenge trio Monsters!

 

[-Ken-]

I think thought these are not absolute facts, but enough to say: Q.P base tennis definitely is way above Mares. And with UQ, he is in top tier than him. To be precise: He can challenge trio Monsters!

I wouldn't say definitely. We know PoP Kintarou score a minimum of 2 points against PoP Oni in just a single game. On the other hand, base QP score 0 points in 9 games against PoP Oni.

White Flame Mares showing is rather impressive, being able to keep up with upgraded PoP Kintarou that exceed that level by a huge margin, although he did it with Rainbow Aura Seda and with Ohmagari on the other side. But even before the White Flame they did go 6-0 with Pre-Upgrade PoP Kintarou with Rainbow Aura Seda once Mares start being serious as well. That pre upgrade PoP Kintarou got better showing than QP in a single game than what QP manage to do in 9 games.

 

[Hardy]

He's indeed not doing anything different against Seda, and it's because Kintarou that was stronger that they stand a chance. Both of them just isn't capable of beating Seda before, and then Kintarou was boost so high that they stand a chance.

And yes, I'm assuming that doubles bonus of the pair is the same since it's not explicitly stated or praised. NPoT do stated whenever the chemistry is better than usual like Tanegashima/Akaya or Yukimura/Yanagi. We saw Mares used Seda in his playing style too.

I believe Kintarou is stronger than Mares because he need to fight Mares and Seda with carrying Ohmagari on his back that's why. And the train of thoughts you're missing is what I post earlier that I think Kintarou is minimum on the level of QP as well so I didn't think Mares stand a shot because Mares limit is being only able to go even to even game even when enemy got non G5 level player.

I actually went back and checked and Ohmagari is doing something different in the last 5 chapters: he's pretty much only rallying with Mares with slices, which is relatively easy to target since he was chasing every ball. In all the points we saw in those 5 chapters, he only aimed at Seda when he had to serve.

It's not just doubles bonus, but his experience in doubles. It was remarked when he played Yukimura-Yanagi that it was his experience the one that pushed the pair forward. Compare that to Seda that is a MSer that as far as we know never played doubles in his life and is only making trick plays ala Momo.

If Kintarou >= QP in your eyes, and Kintarou cannot return Mares' snipers, how does Mares not stand a chance against QP? He will just get aced repeatedly. On that topic, is QP's serve as strong as the Volcano Serve?

I tried checking if Oni managed to return it at any point by looking at the crowds in his match, but Konomi screwed that up a bit. Also the points in which we get to see Oni running desperately are exactly 4...

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2024, Original Post Date: May 10, 2024 ---

Q.P of course.
His base actually is good enough to beats some TNK users.
Then he was 3-0 vs Oni before he uses TNK.
Not to mention they put Oni S3 as power player who supposed to destroy Q.P, yet he shows he has a strong stomach despite of his looks.
It's obvious Oni strongest in Japan, and then we have Kintarou who, he's serves blown away Mare's rocket.
Though I admit that Kintarou become stronger, yet he still lots way to work on, in order to pass Oni's.
I think thought these are not absolute facts, but enough to say: Q.P base tennis definitely is way above Mares. And with UQ, he is in top tier than him. To be precise: He can challenge trio Monsters!

As far as we know his base tennis isn't enough to beat TnK users. Where did you get that from? Irie thought he could had performed well against QP AND Tezuka on his own but would had lost anyway, so it was better to just completely lose to make Atobe stronger.

Oni broke his wrists and only brought up his Ki Jin at the end of the match.

 

[-Ken-]

QP serve might be stronger? I don't see volcano serve breaking any wrist like Oni whom should have stronger wrist than both Mares and Seda.

If your argument is his serve cannot be answer then why isn't Ochi G5 level and merely #9? He give up on Singles even with his level of serve. It's clear that there is limit to just serving and it's not just simply OH SUPER SERVE INVINCIBLE.

I don't think Mares stand a chance because even with Seda as his partner and Ohmagari as opponents who isn't on G5 level by any means Mares couldn't secured domination in score and only manage an even score. That's simply it. I say this so many times already.

 

[Hardy]

QP serve might be stronger? I don't see volcano serve breaking any wrist like Oni whom should have stronger wrist than both Mares and Seda.

If your argument is his serve cannot be answer then why isn't Ochi G5 level and merely #9? He give up on Singles even with his level of serve. It's clear that there is limit to just serving and it's not just simply OH SUPER SERVE INVINCIBLE.

Oni broke his wrists since "he returned it carelessly" according to QP. Mares and Seda's rackets just kept flying away, the serves had little impact on them.

Ochi cannot use Mach every game, it's explained in his match against Greece.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I actually went back and checked and Ohmagari is doing something different in the last 5 chapters: he's pretty much only rallying with Mares with slices, which is relatively easy to target since he was chasing every ball. In all the points we saw in those 5 chapters, he only aimed at Seda when he had to serve.

It's not just doubles bonus, but his experience in doubles. It was remarked when he played Yukimura-Yanagi that it was his experience the one that pushed the pair forward. Compare that to Seda that is a MSer that as far as we know never played doubles in his life and is only making trick plays ala Momo.

If Kintarou >= QP in your eyes, and Kintarou cannot return Mares' snipers, how does Mares not stand a chance against QP? He will just get aced repeatedly. On that topic, is QP's serve as strong as the Volcano Serve?

I tried checking if Oni managed to return it at any point by looking at the crowds in his match, but Konomi screwed that up a bit. Also the points in which we get to see Oni running desperately are exactly 4...

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2024, Original Post Date: May 10, 2024 ---

As far as we know his base tennis isn't enough to beat TnK users. Where did you get that from? Irie thought he could had performed well against QP AND Tezuka on his own but would had lost anyway, so it was better to just completely lose to make Atobe stronger.

Oni broke his wrists and only brought up his Ki Jin at the end of the match.

I think

Base QP and Base Oni are really not that strong in base.

Bismarck and Tanegashima have way better bases to the point that Bismarck and Tanegashima doesn't have any kind of Auras to be in Mid Tier G5 Level. They just play normal with No Auras.

Now Ultimate Aura and TNK + Demon Boost Skyrockets QP and Oni above them

Kintarou is not super strong in Base too. He needed Level 2 TNK to be boosted to Mid Tier G5 Level.

Mares Base is actually one of the strongest. That is why when Aura was not yet introduced in Germany VS Spain. Mars is selected to play against Strong Base Player in Bismarck.

Mares looked weak in the first set in last match. But Nanjirou ordered her to hold back for development of Seda. (Which Worked)

But when Base Mares said "You guys want to see real sniping?" Base Mares never lost a service game. And like what? More than 10 Service aces!!!