- Joined
- Sep 2, 2011
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 795
- Gender
- Male
- Country
I've been thinking about the combat system, and here's some thoughts I organized...Uriel basic techniques refreshing: said:Ten: Basic protection. Allows you to resist even bullets well applied.
Zetsu: Basic hiding. Leaves you vulnerable to nenless attacks.
Ren: Basic Powerup.
Hatsu: Basic properties of the aura.
En: Sensing. It's Expanded Ren.
In: Advanced Hiding, included elements and Nen itself.
Shou: Advanced enhancing of an object. It's Ten expanded.
Gyou: Basic focus, usually in the eyes.
Kou: Advanced Gyou.
Ken: Advanced Ren, balanced Gyou.
Ryu: Advanced Ren, unbalanced Gyou. Basic-Advanced technique.
Human physical body appear to be effectively the same amongst the elite. Way back in the Hunter exam, Gon headbutted Netero, and he appeared to wince from the impact. When Gon attempted to do it again, Netero said that most likely Gon will crack his head but there's also a chance he'll be the one hurting, so he ended up using his other hand to deflect the blow.
This means even someone as strong as Netero does not possess overwhelming physical power. He presumably never used aura in that fight, but that's no disadvantage since Gon isn't even capable of using it at this point, and he can't be certain if his stomach can withstand a headbutt from a 12 year old boy. Sure the head is probably the hardest part of your body and the stomach definitely is not, but this indicates that in an auraless environment, it is entirely possible even a novice can hurt him if their hits connect. Therefore you can assume that between equivalent level human characters, their physical body are essentially the same unless otherwise mentioned (e.g. Biscuit certainly has significantly above normal physical strength).
Now going back to the numbers given by Knuckles, the human scouter.
Gon has about 20K aura point.
Morel is about 70K AP.
Yupi is about 700K AP.
Gon's rock attack uses up about 2000 AP and does an unknown amount of damage.
Gon's paper attack uses up about 2000 AP and does 500 AP of damage.
Since Gon is inexperienced at using Emission techniques, it seems reasonable to assume rock uses up 2000 for 2000 AP of damage.
Now a key idea in HXH is that there is no free lunch. The easier the conditions you have, the weaker your abilities are, and vice versa. Let's look at what the rock does:
1. It's just a straight punch (opponent can dodge, block, whatever).
2. It takes a very long (in HXH universe) time to charge, and this time cannot be decreased (Uber Gon still appears to take just as long to prep up the move).
3. Everyone can see it coming from a mile away.
4. He appears mostly immobile while charging (though we did see him move once).
5. It is just pure damage.
It's said that Gon is inefficient at using aura, but I think this refers to more advanced techniques. As far as I can tell, rock just involves charging aura on your fist and then punch. If there's supposed to be a more effective way to put aura on your fist and punch, then discussing combat is meaningless because then it's always possible someone find a super effective way to do an aura punch. So I'm going to assume converting 1 AP to 1 damage is as good as it gets in HXH.
Now let's go to Netero. His attack has the following properties:
1. It has mega range.
2. It is ridiculously fast to the point of basically unavoidable, and opponent may not even have time to block (Meryem blocked it once, but that seems to be it).
3. It does not even have to hit the same direction he's facing. For example, in the aerial combat between Pitou and Netero, Netero was in a plane above Pitou but his fist hit him from the blindside on the same plane as Pitou.
4. He has to make a praying motion first, but the time it takes to pray can be reduced by training to a number that's basically irrelevent (Pitou's reaction speed is under 0.1s, so Netero has to be able to pray in under 0.1s to hit Pitou first).
No matter how you look at it, Netero has a far easier set of conditions. Even when he first started training, it says the prayer part took about ~5 seconds. That's not longer than the time it takes Gon to charge up the rock, and the time it takes to pray can be reduced by further training, while Gon's charge time seems to be fixed. He has an easier condition to fulfill, and his attack does far more than just mere damage.
Therefore it'd make no sense if Netero can generate 1 point of damage with just 1 point of aura because it'd violate the notion that risks rewards higher payout in HXH. Yes Netero is incredibly experienced and his mastery of aura is unparalleled, but again, how can you possibly get more efficient than just putting aura on your fist and punch? Maybe you can say his mastery is so great that he can add all these additional benefit at practically no cost, but he still shouldn't be able to do better than Gon's ratio (which we assume is 1 to 1) because his attack has an easier to meet criteria while generating far more additional side effects.
Netero hit Meryem hundreds, maybe even thousands of times. If each of his attack did as much damage as the rock, he'd have to use at least 2000 AP per attack. At 100 attacks, that'd put his AP reserve at 200K. At one thousand, that'd put him at 2 million AP, i.e. three times that of Yupi's.
Now the Ants possess overwhelming physical and aura reserve advantage. If Netero has more AP in reserve compared to a Royal, then that means the whole 'ovecome power with tactics' is pretty much meaningless when Netero has an AP total comparable to all 3 Royals put together (not to mention it'd mean he's crazy for suggesting Pitou is stronger than him if he has higher total AP than Pitou). Even at 200K, that'd put him at 3 times that of Morel. Since Knuckles can estimate how much total AP someone have by just looking at them, and it seems to be something derived from experience as opposed to a special only he has, that'd mean Netero is a ridiuclously bad liar, because he's saying Morel or Novu might be as strong as he is when it is apparent he has 3 times the AP reserve compared to him. Yes, AP reserve isn't everything, but it's not like anyone doubt Netero's mastery of aura combat, so if he started out with 3 times the AP reserve, there's no conceiveable way he'll ever lose.
So my conclusion is that Netero can't even be generating 2000 points of damage per fist. If he could, that'd also mean each of his hit can kill someone like Knuckles in one hit, and maybe two hits for someone like Morel. He clearly counted on their strength in the fight, and it'd be riduclous to count on someone you can kill in one punch against guys who are stronger than you. Even Yupi can't kill Knuckle with a glancing blow (did ~300ish damage, comparable to a very hard normal punch from Knuckle). If Netero can do it with ease, it'd mean his attack power is higher than Yupi. And in that case why did he wait so long to attack the Ants's nest?
Now this doesn't mean Gon generating 2000+ points of damage makes him strong. His attack can be easily avoided or prevented, or even blocked. Netero's attack is far more practical when fighting against an opponent of comparable level. I think this fits with the HXH's theme quite well. It's never about pure power. Netero may very easily lose to Gon in terms of pure destruction, but Netero can hit guys Gon would have no chance (at least without transforming) of ever hitting. If Phinks can spin his arm a hundred times (or more), one would assume he has to be able to do more damage than Netero too, but what idiot would let a guy spin his arm in a circle one hundred times? Besides, even if he did that, he still has to connect the punch to do damage. Netero's techinques cannot be the strongest in terms of pure damage in HXH, but his attack is probably the only one that's even useful against opponents of his class (or higher).
Last edited by a moderator: