Semifinal - Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta | Page 17 | MangaHelpers



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Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

Who wins?

  • Reinhard van Astrea

  • Vegeta


The results of this poll are hidden until it is manually edited by the user or site admin.

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Hardy

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You still haven't given a single Proof as to why dbz anime is non canon lol.

Please provide some thing better than those sites before saying they are wrong.

And lol madoka is mostly a manga/anime series which has way better feats than anything from re zero

And what vegeta can do is he thows Reinhard into the sun.

And one more thing, tag me before you answer me alright
I already did but keep clowning.

What attack feats? The only one I found was the one I mentioned, and it's the main character.

I'm assuming a throw will be seen as an attack so it will be dodged.

I'll do whatever I want.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Why does his immortality matter? Hakai can't touch him.
 

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You still haven't given a single Proof as to why dbz anime is non canon lol.

Please provide some thing better than those sites before saying they are wrong.

And lol madoka is mostly a manga/anime series which has way better feats than anything from re zero

And what vegeta can do is he thows Reinhard into the sun.

And one more thing, tag me before you answer me alright
--- Double Post Merged, ---



Geets throws him into the sun
:xp cmon man, your trolling right
But then Rein comes back. Then what? Keep that up until the ends of time? Question is how will he even throw him.

I saw you edit the Madoka game stuff lol :yoda you cant escape my op gazing eye
Manga is always the main canon material, while anime is an adaptation. There might be nothing where it says anime isnt canon (im sure there is), but is there something where it says it is, other than the select material the author approved as part of the manga
 

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I already did but keep clowning.

What attack feats? The only one I found was the one I mentioned, and it's the main character.

I'm assuming a throw will be seen as an attack so it will be dodged.

I'll do whatever I want.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Why does his immortality matter? Hakai can't touch him.
His immortality matters as he isn't immortal through conventional means. He can die but he is brought back to life. That my boi is considered ressurection and not immortality.
 
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Seven777

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Just remembered you are the "Gae Bolg guy", oh god... :shootme

That saves me a lot of time tho.

- Cut through concepts = Cut through anything, tangible or intangible, he can even cut abilities. Basically he can just cut through Vegeta's final flash and slash him at the same time.
- He can be as fast as he wants to but he's technically bound by the laws of his universe. His best feat is easily handling a guy moving close to light speed once he drew the Dragon Sword.
- You ignore the idea of holding back in Re:Zero, but not in DragonBall because its a "natural" thing. You are such a king.
- Of course you will say slashing through reality means nothing, its just how you play the game.


I can't believe Im the one being called subjective here. :lambirb

Yep, that's me.
:pjsalt:pjsalt:pjsalt

-Sure, cuts through concepts, great. When has he done this, and what has he done it to?
-And yet he didn't stop Elsa from gutting Subaru, and lets her escape to kill again, I guess Rein is just a bad character. Also what's this lightspeed guys name?
-When did I ignore anything in DBZ lol? You haven't mentioned a single thing about the series to me, great argument btw.
-Why wouldn't I? It means as much to me as Buu screaming through reality.
 

Blakestnight666

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:xp cmon man, your trolling right
But then Rein comes back. Then what? Keep that up until the ends of time? Question is how will he even throw him.

I saw you edit the Madoka game stuff lol :yoda you cant escape my op gazing eye
Manga is always the main canon material, while anime is an adaptation. There might be nothing where it says anime isnt canon (im sure there is), but is there something where it says it is, other than the select material the author approved as part of the manga
Does Reinhard have any teleportion spell?

Yeah it will go on for ever.

Yeah I edited the mqdoka game one because i forgot there were games of that series.

The thing is toriyama himself has said that dragon ball is both the manga and the anime. O0
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

And most Reinhard's abilities fall into the category of No limit fallacy. what's to say that his abilities work way weaker in another universe?
--- Double Post Merged, ---

vegeta do this to Reinhard;
 

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It's really not semantics. One guy has an ability that can't effect immortal people.

im·mor·tal·i·ty
/ˌi(m)ˌmôrˈtalədē/

noun
noun: immortality
  1. the ability to live forever; eternal life.
    "eating the fruit gave the gods immortality"

Is this an ability Reihard has? No, no it is not. Your argument isn't even with me on this one. It's with the dictionary.

Now I'm happy acknowledge that he may have another form of protection from it in whatever that supposedly made, Reid if I'm remembering correctly, have an existence that is non-erasable. You didn't cite anything backing that up that assertion and I have yet to be able to find any mention of Reinhard having it. But I could totally believe he has that.

It's still not immortality though. Every time you say that you are trying to make a word mean something that it just plain doesn't because Reinhard will one day die. He ages. He is not immortal. I don't know why this is so hard for you to accept honestly.

Again why can't you cite a source for this or anything? You don't need a screenshot. You just need to be able to cite something that backs up your point.

The last time you tried. You quoted in text that didn't say anything anything like that. You say it Od Laguna maintains the the ReZero universe. And by extension if he can destroy that he can destroy the "ReZero universe". But from what I'm reading Od Laguna is something that supposedly exists in the form of a crystal at center of the world. See it still doesn't extend that attack beyond the borders of that one world. That is an assumption you are making and then referring to it as established fact..

If you want to have a discussion about whether or not destroying Od Laguna destroys the place where this hypothetical fight is happening fine. But you need to be upfront about the fact that assumption is what your basing your claim on. That's why it is misleading.
Oh you ignored the point in which I adressed how Reinhard is inmune to seduction, cute.


As for inmortality again, you are playing semantics. Its not a lie that Reinhard cannot die until he wants to, the only thing thats mortal is his body.


Anyway for Od Laguna here's some direct quotes from the WN, end of Arc 4. Sadly they didnt make it into the anime.

------------
Roswaal: “Make sure you don't misunderstand. This possibility is present because it is her. There is no way to bring back lives that have met a conventional death. The Od Laguna would never permit such convenient magic as resurrection.”

Subaru: “Od Laguna?”

Subaru scrunches his face at the new word.

Roswaal: “Od Laguna is... how to say, a stockpile of mana in the fount of the world... No, supposing that the world itself was a living creature, then it would be its Nexus and the Od of the World. Though we can only imagine as to its exact location, and whether it is sentient or not.”
-----------


Roswaal proceeds to explain the origin of magic and how the Greatest Magicians of old pursued godhood and forms to shape the world. As mana is the life force and main sustaint of anything, manipulating mana through magic allows to play with the rules.

Until they decided to access the root of all mana (Od Laguna), going insane when witnessing its scale. Its not just the physical realm but the spiritual. All souls and memories are born from and return to the nexus and its explored in Arc 6 later with the Hall of Memories.

Also lol at that wikia putting Od Laguna as a "crystal" at the core of the "planet" (Re Zero world is flat) when no one knows its location, everything is a "refraction" of it.


-----------
Roswaal: “Just as humans fear injury or disease, the World rejects those liable to shake its foundations. Is what some first started saying about Od Laguna.
The true common point between those whose minds were broken by witnessing Od Laguna, was that they reached new heights of magic that would have rewritten the practice's history.”

--------------


Basically, those who accessed Od Laguna managed to trascend the limits of the magic allowed by that "God" like Resurrection, Time manipulation, Travelling through universes, etc...
But they are forbidden and corrected by Od Laguna itself. Only Authorities manage to challenge it successfully.

It really isn't that hard to understand when you are familiar with stuff like "The Root" in Fate.


-------------
Roswaal: “One theory states that Od Laguna is the consciousness that rules over everything in the World. And though it warrants scepticism, perhaps Od Laguna could be the one bestowing people with BLESSINGS—is the nonsense that people have come up with.”
--------------

^Theory confirmed by the Author himself.

And more gets explored in Arc 6 and the Pleiades Watchtower.
 

Hardy

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The thing is toriyama himself has said that dragon ball is both the manga and the anime. O0
At least provide a source of that nonsense.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Like, I gave you one of Tori saying Super is a continuation of the manga, hence THAT'S the canon.
 

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-Sure, cuts through concepts, great. When has he done this, and what has he done it to?
Oh great, another Jammin...

Quoting directly from the LN Volume 12:

"The next instant, Reinhard raised the Dragon Blade above his head, and there was a single flash of light - the sky split, cracks running through the very air; the ground crumbled; mana swirled in a vortex; and along the arc of his slash, the World... Slid.

[...]

The moment after that cascading slash settled down, the white and cold air covering the world recovered.
The slide in the world was repaired, the parts that had become a swirling vortex of mana reverted to their proper forms, flowers budded from the shattered ground and peace spread through the cracked air. From the sky, dazzling sunrays poured down.

The Slash of the Sword Saint had both ended the World and simultaneously brought about its re-creation.

And the enormous beast that had been bathed in the slash had been annihilated from the world without a trace. There were not even side effects of destruction to be seen; that a battle had even taken place seemed like nothing but a dream.

_With a rasping sound, Reinhard sheathed the Dragon Sword within its white scabbard once more."


End of the quote.
Being able to bust concepts allows to destroy things that are conceptually impossible to be destroyed, like the sky or your stubbornness.

For example, Reid being able to slash concepts would make him capable of easily beheading Regulus, a singularity in which time doesn't exist and a slash cannot be possible. Reinhard needs the Dragon Sword to perform this feat.

And yet he didn't stop Elsa from gutting Subaru, and lets her escape to kill again, I guess Rein is just a bad character. Also what's this lightspeed guys name?
The irony of this statement when defending DragonBall... :rofl
But yeah, Rein tends to spare his opponents whenever he has the chance. As for why he didnt make it, because Elsa was almost by Subaru when he started moving and he can't teleport. Thats really the explanation.
The name of the guy close to lightspeed is Cecilus.

-When did I ignore anything in DBZ lol? You haven't mentioned a single thing about the series to me, great argument btw.
What Im telling you: You can't understand how Reinhard would hold back in a fight in order to not kill the people nearby by accident.

But you can easily understand an attack meant to kill a SS Blue hit the ground and just make an explosion. Solar System level btw, 100% proved through scaling that they hold back their ki to not destroy the planets, even the villains do it cause they are softies in the inside.

:lambirb

-Why wouldn't I? It means as much to me as Buu screaming through reality.
Do you mean the Time chamber scene? Buu and Gotenks made a rip in that dimension to come back to their dimensions. There are spells in Re:Zero that can do just that, same with time-stop and energy nullification.

If you mean the one that Blackest posted (Buu vs Vegetto) its anime filler, and if you take it as canon you are beyond help.
 

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Sorry for the late reply, i was driving home. Had an hour long drive from a friends. I cant believe i was actually debating from a friends computer. He said i was nuts :XD


First of, Fuck you Lak :arf where were you during my fights. I could have used you. I thought we were eternal Naruto/"Boruto" comrades and yet this betrayal :xp oh, my head ....

Magnitude matters but, you also have to look at it this way; Is the magnitude of power from a transcending conceptual being that dictates the laws of its verse weaker or stronger than the magnitude of power from a being that is mortal.

Jubi and Kaguya are nothing special to the "magnitude of power" we are talking about here, no. Yes they are considered gods in the Naruto verse, but they are still "mortal" beings, same as the gods of the destruction in DB, or the lower gods, or the Kaio, or Kami.
Yeah about the world thing with the Jubi, in the end it didnt mean a thing since Jubi was no god, nor did it held the world in its palms, in the end it was a flower with chackra. And Kaguya, while immortal, she is far from being considered a goddess on par with some other verses.

About the Reid sword and its erase and rebirth stuff, i just took it at face value. I havent read the novels, i just saw some pics Lambu posted and read the stuff he said, and ive read some forum discussions but not in detail. Flickering Sun, all new to me lol :xp




Oh yeah, that reddit post about the blessings, thats what ive found as well, but there is no info about outside voices calling for Rein or similar. Who said that? About the third party needing him to ressurect? Now im extra curious :hmm
Exactly my point here. Just because they were God status, did it mean they had same magnitude.
And as for the world reset , i m asking tht question . Tht when u say whole universe is affected, u state it in a line at least tht sun started turning black, the reality was cut upon and the other planets also started to be affected etc etc. If not even a single line in the novel regarding tht, is it not presumptuous to think tht it affects whole universe ?

Tht was answered during the Q and A session or something from author. I posted link for it above to asako's reply.
And lol, I didn't think u would need my help since u r better at finding stuffs and investigating deeply. Moreover, i knew next to nothing abt aladdin or magi series.
Just tht sinbad is op

Instead of making those huge posts linking stuff that you cannot even understand properly. Why not lay the bare fact supporting your "theory"?

Author says: If Reinhard dies, he will revive as many times as it takes so long as he has the will to keep fighting.
Author also says: As long as someone is out there asking for help, he will keep coming back.


Now Lakhan's interpretation: "Only if someone is asking for help Reinhard will return"


This is your point, no sugarcoating with half-assed "investigation" and wordplay.

If someone follows his assumption I can't help it, its just not how Rein's revival works and it takes a 8 year old to understand it.
Reinhard decides whether to return or not, he will always return if someone is in need of assistance because he's a hero, he's not bound by those people's needs to be able to return.

The similar case with another situation.
Reinhard is stated to be capable of defeating all the people of the World if they all turned against him but he would lay down his arms in that situation, for his reason to fight would be no more. Its not that he can't do it, he doesn't want to, which are different things.
Once again u conveniently skipped one part and thankyou for proving my point exactly with tht.

Author says- If Reinhard dies, he will revive as many times as it takes so long as he has the will to keep fighting.
Author also says - The world keeps on bringing him back because world needs him. tht 2nd last question of reditt page which u used as source
Author also says - As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear - same source from provider


It does not take 5 year old to understand tht it is cause and effect related, he is being brought back by world for sake of not himself but for others , who r asking for help. And here r only 2 characters and none is needing his help or is gonna ask for help, and since noone's voice is asking for help, there is no reason world shld bring it back.

So, someone needing help is requisite here.

And i ain't into sugarcoating . It clearly is implied he is not brought back for his own self. U can twist and turn it to suit ur narrative tht it is just a driving factor and other stuffs, doesn't change the fact one bit tht he is only revived when someone is there for needing his help.

And this statement of urs
`he will always return if someone is in need of assistance because he's a hero, he's not bound by those people's needs to be able to return.`

It is contradictory in itself . Who is in need of assistance here ? Vegeta ?
If people don't need him, world brings him back for sake of protecting rocks and mountains ? At least read what u r posting. Ur condescending attitude is not helping u even a tiny bit here.

Tht similar case u stated is very different from this. Anyways, i m off to sleep. If thread is still open tomorrow, will reply to ur quotes.
 

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Oh you ignored the point in which I adressed how Reinhard is inmune to seduction, cute.
Why wouldn't I ignore it. You quoted yourself describing him performing an emotionally cold action. Which in no way proves your point. Do you have any idea how many love stories star characters like that? It means literally nothing.

You would have been better off going the route of trying to say that the description of his character as being a hero and that's all he can ever be. As that would have made a better argument for him having a lack of human emotions. Still wouldn't be a fact unless you could prove it though. Which you can't, apparently.


As for inmortality again, you are playing semantics. Its not a lie that Reinhard cannot die until he wants to, the only thing thats mortal is his body.
Hence not immortal. You can wish he was immortal all day long, it won't make him so. He is by definition a mortal. The ability to resurrect does not change that. Resistence to existence erasure, if he really does have that, also would not change that.

Anyway for Od Laguna here's some direct quotes from the WN, end of Arc 4. Sadly they didnt make it into the anime.

------------
Roswaal: “Make sure you don't misunderstand. This possibility is present because it is her. There is no way to bring back lives that have met a conventional death. The Od Laguna would never permit such convenient magic as resurrection.”

Subaru: “Od Laguna?”

Subaru scrunches his face at the new word.

Roswaal: “Od Laguna is... how to say, a stockpile of mana in the fount of the world... No, supposing that the world itself was a living creature, then it would be its Nexus and the Od of the World. Though we can only imagine as to its exact location, and whether it is sentient or not.”
-----------


Roswaal proceeds to explain the origin of magic and how the Greatest Magicians of old pursued godhood and forms to shape the world. As mana is the life force and main sustaint of anything, manipulating mana through magic allows to play with the rules.

Until they decided to access the root of all mana (Od Laguna), going insane when witnessing its scale. Its not just the physical realm but the spiritual. All souls and memories are born from and return to the nexus and its explored in Arc 6 later with the Hall of Memories.

Also lol at that wikia putting Od Laguna as a "crystal" at the core of the "planet" (Re Zero world is flat) when no one knows its location, everything is a "refraction" of it.


-----------
Roswaal: “Just as humans fear injury or disease, the World rejects those liable to shake its foundations. Is what some first started saying about Od Laguna.
The true common point between those whose minds were broken by witnessing Od Laguna, was that they reached new heights of magic that would have rewritten the practice's history.”

--------------


Basically, those who accessed Od Laguna managed to trascend the limits of the magic allowed by that "God" like Resurrection, Time manipulation, Travelling through universes, etc...
But they are forbidden and corrected by Od Laguna itself. Only Authorities manage to challenge it successfully.

It really isn't that hard to understand when you are familiar with stuff like "The Root" in Fate.


-------------
Roswaal: “One theory states that Od Laguna is the consciousness that rules over everything in the World. And though it warrants scepticism, perhaps Od Laguna could be the one bestowing people with BLESSINGS—is the nonsense that people have come up with.”
--------------

^Theory confirmed by the Author himself.

And more gets explored in Arc 6 and the Pleiades Watchtower.
I don't have time to read those right now. But I will tonight. I promise to do it with an open mind.
 

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Exactly my point here. Just because they were God status, did it mean they had same magnitude.
And as for the world reset , i m asking tht question . Tht when u say whole universe is affected, u state it in a line at least tht sun started turning black, the reality was cut upon and the other planets also started to be affected etc etc. If not even a single line in the novel regarding tht, is it not presumptuous to think tht it affects whole universe ?

Tht was answered during the Q and A session or something from author. I posted link for it above to asako's reply.
And lol, I didn't think u would need my help since u r better at finding stuffs and investigating deeply. Moreover, i knew next to nothing abt aladdin or magi series.
Just tht sinbad is op



Once again u conveniently skipped one part and thankyou for proving my point exactly with tht.

Author says- If Reinhard dies, he will revive as many times as it takes so long as he has the will to keep fighting.
Author also says - The world keeps on bringing him back because world needs him. tht 2nd last question of reditt page which u used as source
Author also says - As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear - same source from provider


It does not take 5 year old to understand tht it is cause and effect related, he is being brought back by world for sake of not himself but for others , who r asking for help. And here r only 2 characters and none is needing his help or is gonna ask for help, and since noone's voice is asking for help, there is no reason world shld bring it back.

So, someone needing help is requisite here.

And i ain't into sugarcoating . It clearly is implied he is not brought back for his own self. U can twist and turn it to suit ur narrative tht it is just a driving factor and other stuffs, doesn't change the fact one bit tht he is only revived when someone is there for needing his help.

And this statement of urs
`he will always return if someone is in need of assistance because he's a hero, he's not bound by those people's needs to be able to return.`

It is contradictory in itself . Who is in need of assistance here ? Vegeta ?
If people don't need him, world brings him back for sake of protecting rocks and mountains ? At least read what u r posting. Ur condescending attitude is not helping u even a tiny bit here.

Tht similar case u stated is very different from this. Anyways, i m off to sleep. If thread is still open tomorrow, will reply to ur quotes.
How is it condescending to say you are latching on to an assumption made from not knowing how to read properly?
Im not saying you are dumb but your argument clearly is, can't really see why I should try to cover that.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

And i ain't into sugarcoating . It clearly is implied he is not brought back for his own self. U can twist and turn it to suit ur narrative tht it is just a driving factor and other stuffs, doesn't change the fact one bit tht he is only revived when someone is there for needing his help.

And this statement of urs
`he will always return if someone is in need of assistance because he's a hero, he's not bound by those people's needs to be able to return.`
Like seriously, go and check how Conditional works in language. You are equating the last statement to "If and only if" just because you feel like it and to remain on your point.
 

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No? Super Manga states Saiyans die in space. If you are talking about Beerus vs Goku, they were probably still inside the atmosphere.

I wonder if he would freeze to death or die of asphyxia first.

Vegeta won't ever use IT again, and it only worked ONCE because of Goku's big dick ki, I don't know why you guys keep bringing it up.
They die. But not immediatly. How else would you explain that goku in his younger years, brought Mr. Rabbit to the moon and came back living? :P Its rumored, that they can last some time, but not forever like frieza, but they dont die as quick as humans.



Vegeta said he wont use it again, because its Gokus move. He can still use it fine and in this scenario he probably would. He is prideful but not total dumb. Its perfect established that vegeta is a special case of kimanipulation and a prodigy at this, so if he wanted to, he would be able to.

PS: I know rabbit was a jokecharacter and the rabbit on the moon is a japanese thingy... its still a mangafeat.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

When was a character of DB capable of resisting an attack that can erase you on a conceptual level? (Hakai is not one of them and it was proved).
When was a character of DB capable of manipulating universal laws to become untouchable?
When was a character of DB capable of ignoring the laws of his own biology or have infinite stamina?
1. Scream of buu and gotenks, which erased a part of a dimension... if thats not conceptual i dont know what it is. Hakai totally is also, Beerus even deleted a ghost as an example. Thats as close as "conceptual" gets in dragonball.
2. Ultra instinct...?
3. The androids....?

Nothing to do with Vegeta just wanted to answer those questions.
 

Hardy

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They die. But not immediatly. How else would you explain that goku in his younger years, brought Mr. Rabbit to the moon and came back living? :P Its rumored, that they can last some time, but not forever like frieza, but they dont die as quick as humans.



Vegeta said he wont use it again, because its Gokus move. He can still use it fine and in this scenario he probably would. He is prideful but not total dumb. Its perfect established that vegeta is a special case of kimanipulation and a prodigy at this, so if he wanted to, he would be able to.

PS: I know rabbit was a jokecharacter and the rabbit on the moon is a japanese thingy... its still a mangafeat.
It has been retconned, so it was just a gag as you are saying. (Or the db moon just works differently, which isn't new actually, and is inside the atmosphere... somehow).


This is like, just going in there and throw and punch and come back. And yet he couldn't do it. Saiyans can't do it, period.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

And no, Vegeta won't ever use IT again. It's not about being dumb or not, he never learnt it properly and never will. He used it once thanks to Goku (not in this battle). He said all of this himself, anything else is you guys making it up.

Unless you wanna debate that he learns it midbattle for plot reasons? Then for plot he loses as always lmao.

Ultra Instinct is dodging real good, doesn't break any laws.

Androids (cyborgs) do follow their own manga biology.
 

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It has been retconned, so it was just a gag as you are saying. (Or the db moon just works differently, which isn't new actually, and is inside the atmosphere... somehow).


This is like, just going in there and throw and punch and come back. And yet he couldn't do it. Saiyans can't do it, period.


I wouldnt exactly call this atmosphere to be honest.



Or this for instance. And i wont even be posting Vegeta and Nappa who were standing on their pods in space. Its always kinda inconsistent. We have goku traveling to the moon, fighting beerus in outer space, The saiyans waiting outer space for their demise by frieza and vegeta saying they cant survive.

Honestly i believe, with a little kiarmor they can survive for a short time. And they also have extremly durable lungs thanks to their training, dont they? So getting an amount of air and then surving shouldnt be a problem.

Of course vegeta can do it. They steal and copy techniques all the time. Kamehameha can every one do, even tiens solar flare is a well known technique. Vegeta already done the transmission once, i cant see why he couldnt do it again, pride aside.

Ultra Instinct is dodging real good, doesn't break any laws.
Jeah... kinda. I mean Reinhard avoids the rain and goku just calmly walking through a kiblast barrage of toppo and dyspo feel kinda the same to me.
 
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Hardy

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I wouldnt exactly call this atmosphere to be honest.



Or this for instance. And i wont even be posting Vegeta and Nappa who were standing on their pods in space. Its always kinda inconsistent. We have goku traveling to the moon, fighting beerus in outer space, The saiyans waiting outer space for their demise by frieza and vegeta saying they cant survive.

Honestly i believe, with a little kiarmor they can survive for a short time. And they also have extremly durable lungs thanks to their training, dont they? So getting an amount of air and then surving shouldnt be a problem.

Of course vegeta can do it. They steal and copy techniques all the time. Kamehameha can every one do, even tiens solar flare is a well known technique. Vegeta already done the transmission once, i cant see why he couldnt do it again, pride aside.



Jeah... kinda. I mean Reinhard avoids the rain and goku just calmly walking through a kiblast barrage of toppo and dyspo feel kinda the same to me.
"I thought that things would get out of hand if they fought right there at Capsule Corporation, but naturally, the location changed. (laughs) To think that they’d go all the way into the stratosphere……but thinking about it, they’re both aliens, after all. Maybe they can just barely breathe."

Why didn't Vegeta use IT against Moro at any point of the fight then, in any sort of strategical advantage? It was life or death, appearing behind the enemy in an instant is quite useful innit?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

"I don't see why he can't" because HE DIDN'T LEARN IT AND WON'T.
 

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Why didn't Vegeta use IT against Moro at any point of the fight then, in any sort of strategical advantage? It was life or death, appearing behind the enemy in an instant is quite useful innit?
Pride. The same reason we never saw him fire a kamehameha even if he could. He doesnt like to copy goku, but when his life depends on it... things change, like we everytime with the fusiondance, he does not want to it, but if it must be done, he does it. Goku doesnt use IT always either, since it mostly good for a longer distance a surprise attack. At this time right now its more then a last resort plotdevice.

"I thought that things would get out of hand if they fought right there at Capsule Corporation, but naturally, the location changed. (laughs) To think that they’d go all the way into the stratosphere……but thinking about it, they’re both aliens, after all. Maybe they can just barely breathe."
What i read from this is: They are aliens and can breath more up there then a human. Which plays more in my hands as i thought :P Of course reinhard can just wish for breathing in space, before Od Laguna gest destroyed cant he? Why no one brought this up yet?



Dont know man, looks like he could do it.
 

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Pride. The same reason we never saw him fire a kamehameha even if he could. He doesnt like to copy goku, but when his life depends on it... things change, like we everytime with the fusiondance, he does not want to it, but if it must be done, he does it. Goku doesnt use IT always either, since it mostly good for a longer distance a surprise attack. At this time right now its more then a last resort plotdevice.



What i read from this is: They are aliens and can breath more up there then a human. Which plays more in my hands as i thought :P Of course reinhard can just wish for breathing in space, before Od Laguna gest destroyed cant he? Why no one brought this up yet?
Bro you are literally reading whatever you want to fit your narrative. Absurdly annoying.

Not pride, he can't. He didn't learn it. In any case, your reason remains, he won't get character development for this tournament.

He said maybe. Maybe not. And then the manga confirmed they can't. Done.

Dunno why you guys argue like this, I have no idea how Lambu lasted this long.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Dont know man, looks like he could do it.
I'm aware of this and addressed it. Again, annoying.
 

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I'm aware of this and addressed it. Again, annoying.
I honestly then dont get, why you say he cant do it, while we are having a manga page, where he does it and the creators of this technique even ackowledges this. In the 17pages we have reached i unfortunatly cant remember every post and argument, so basically walk around in circles since 10 pages already, so i guess, i am sorry for that.

But as of right now, we have several instances where we see saiyans in space/or nearly before it without problems and vegeta performing IT.


Personally i dont even care if its annoying, when i was annoyed by the same arguments, i just take a while off and came back later. I also will be happy with a loss, or a win for vegeta here, we have the most pages by a large margin, which honestly feels already like a final and the best "bout" of all the tournament.
 

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I honestly then dont get, why you say he cant do it, while we are having a manga page, where he does it and the creators of this technique even ackowledges this. In the 17pages we have reached i unfortunatly cant remember every post and argument, so basically walk around in circles since 10 pages already, so i guess, i am sorry for that.

But as of right now, we have several instances where we see saiyans in space/or nearly before it without problems and vegeta performing IT.


Personally i dont even care if its annoying, when i was annoyed by the same arguments, i just take a while off and came back later. I also will be happy with a loss, or a win for vegeta here, we have the most pages by a large margin, which honestly feels already like a final and the best "bout" of all the tournament.
He did it because he found Goku's ki. No Goku ki to be found here.
 

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He did it because he found Goku's ki. No Goku ki to be found here.
Jeah thats how its works. Why shouldnt goku´s ki be there? If reinhard can wish for things by a third party, Vegeta should be able to feel gokus ki. Strictly taken, he should be allowed to feel gokus ki even in context, since he is fighting at the same time against akemi in the other thread.

If we cut both "third partys" its a prepared vegeta in space, who can probably last longer as a resurrected reinhard without prepartion for space.
 
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