Discussion Ask open questions about the Manga

[shionoro]

This thread is to discuss anything in the manga you did not quite understand or that seems like a contradiction.

Stuff like 'why does killua know how zenos Nen looks?' or 'how did kites resurrection work exactly?' that seem confusing and illogical have a place here.

I wanna start with this question that I never quite got yet: What is kurapika's reasoning exactly in chapter 371 where he explains to Shimano why mr SM is not woble's Nenbeast? His reasoning is that Shimano saw the snakes so they were conjured but that wont work because the Nenbeast uses a lot of energy to stay hidden. but is that really a proper reasoning?

The mr SM doll is an ability that remains hidden from anyone except the witness but still conjures the snakes.

 

[Diivil]

What is kurapika's reasoning exactly in chapter 371 where he explains to Shimano why mr SM is not woble's Nenbeast? His reasoning is that Shimano saw the snakes so they were conjured but that wont work because the Nenbeast uses a lot of energy to stay hidden. but is that really a proper reasoning?

This spoiler is a reply from a Japanese speaker clearing things up:

Spoiler

"From how I see it, both translations [official and unofficial] are very vague and didn't even acknowledge that Bill said 'the same nen ability'"

"If I were reading that I'd figure he's still talking specifically about conjuration in regards to the beasts"

"And that you can either conjure things with the risk of everyone seeing it, or conjure things that only Nen users can see"

"So two different ways of conjuring, and hiding your conjuration without the use of In"

"So first Kurapika was explaining how Nen users can see the beast but normal people can't, and how everyone could see the snakes. Since Conjuration = everyone can see it unless In is used, Bill is asked if the conjuration of the snakes and the ability used for the beasts are different abilities, to which Bill says they're the same in the big knot (meaning there's much more to the usual Conjuration). Which you figure he means that the beasts are conjured, just in a different way than the traditional conjuration."

"He gives an example using the snakes, and Kurapika hops in to give and example using the current situation about the beasts. So there is no explicit statement saying that 'Yes, the guardian beasts are conjured,' but with everything taken to account that's what you'd figure."

"And after Kurapika gives his example, he realizes that the different risk to planting parasites in so many people might be that if one person is able to withdraw, the beasts will all disappear. So I'd say the beasts are conjured and that once the vow is broken, the ability will too"

Nen beasts can only be created by being conjured or transmuted. They can be made invisible to everyone by using In. When they are transmuted, they have a simple "aura-like" design and are invisible to normal people because it's just aura that is shaped.

When they are conjured, by default regular people can see them. But, by using Manipulation, and thus using more energy, you can control their visibility without the use of In:

• Visible to anyone.
• Visible to only Nen users.
• Visible to only specific persons.

[Conjuration | Transmutation]-> create
Nen constructs are created with ‎[Transmutation]<-+->[Conjuration]
Controlled & made (in)visible to various targets with [Manipulation]
Detaching aura or construct(s) from your body will need [Emission]
[Manipulation + Emission]-> control

 

[shionoro]

@Diivil Thank you.

But I am still not sure whether I understand it correctly now.
I do understand that using Nen to stay hidden is a different kind of trade off than increasing risk by being visible and that the nenbeasts stay hidden.

So it is clear to me that the snakes cannot be the Nenbeast itself. Other Nenbeasts who create lesser beasts, such as Taithon's also have their lesser beasts be invisible (sale sale's miniclouds too).

But Zhang Lei's Nenbeast does create objects that everyone can say, it conjures them. I realize an immovable object is something different from a moving creature, but I do not understand yet how it can be completely out of question that a Nenbeast conjurse a visible snake when a Nenbeast can conjure a visible coin.

The only reasoning I could see is that Sale Sale's Nenbeast is visible to Nenusers and does not use a lot of energy to stay hidden as such, while woble's beast obviously uses energy to stay hidden and as such it would be strange to conjure visible snakes. But then again: Kacho and Fuugetsu's beast stayed hidden most of the time and they were able to create visible doors.

 

[Diivil]

So it is clear to me that the snakes cannot be the Nenbeast itself.

But then again: Kacho and Fuugetsu's beast stayed hidden most of the time and they were able to create visible doors.

Nen users can create constructs with their visibility controlled independently of each other, and you can also control/modify their visibility once they've already been created.

The Silent Majority user conjured two Nen constructs:
1. Marionette -> Visible to specific people only.
2. Snakes -> Visible to everyone.
The creation/activation process is controlled by manipulation.

Other Nenbeasts who create lesser beasts, such as Taithon's also have their lesser beasts be invisible (sale sale's miniclouds too).

But Zhang Lei's Nenbeast does create objects that everyone can say, it conjures them. I realize an immovable object is something different from a moving creature, but I do not understand yet how it can be completely out of question that a Nenbeast conjurse a visible snake when a Nenbeast can conjure a visible coin.

The Nen constructs created by the GSB are not subject to the GSB's enforced visibility rule, therefore, those depend on the beast/prince:

Zhang Lei's coins: Everyone.
Halkenburg's feather tattoo: Everyone.
Salé-Salé's mini-beast: Nen users.
Momoze's mini-beast: Target only -> Nen users.

The only reasoning I could see is that Sale Sale's Nenbeast is visible to Nenusers and does not use a lot of energy to stay hidden as such, while woble's beast obviously uses energy to stay hidden.

Yes, effectively. But then again, Wobble's beast is also "inactive", therefore it's using minimal aura anyways.

And as such it would be strange to conjure visible snakes. But then again: Kacho and Fuugetsu's beast stayed hidden most of the time and they were able to create visible doors.

Kacho's beast doesn't have a form until it activates, at which point it's visible to everyone. Fugetsuu's beast is a "harmless mascot" that creates visible doors, so the beast being fully invisible while using it's abilities shouldn't require a great amount of energy.

 

[shionoro]

The Nen constructs created by the GSB are not subject to the GSB's enforced visibility rule, therefore, those depend on the beast/prince:

Zhang Lei's coins: Everyone.
Halkenburg's feather tattoo: Everyone.
Salé-Salé's mini-beast: Nen users.
Momoze's mini-beast: Target only -> Nen users.

Hmm yes, that is clear to me, but why would Woble's Nenbeast not possibly conjure visible snakes if Zhang Lei's beast can produce visible Coins? That is the part i dont understand. Kurapika says it is the 'wrong type', but I fail to see how that applies.

 

[Diivil]

Hmm yes, that is clear to me, but why would Woble's Nenbeast not possibly conjure visible snakes if Zhang Lei's beast can produce visible Coins?

Kurapika says it is the 'wrong type', but I fail to see how that applies.

Ahh, I see the confusion.

Kurapika was talking about Wobble's GSB itself. Shimano asked if the snakes were a GSB, to which Kura differentiated to her how the GSB are invisible.

Precisely because the GSB can create visible constructs (which they prob thought of) they just at least know that the snakes aren't Wobble's GSB itself, but for all they know, the snakes could be a mini-beast created by it.

Spoiler

The Snakes != Wobble's GSB is all they know for certain.

 

[shionoro]

Ahh, I see the confusion.

Kurapika was talking about Wobble's GSB itself. Shimano asked if the snakes were a GSB, to which Kura differentiated to her how the GSB are invisible.

Precisely because the GSB can create visible constructs (which they prob thought of) they just at least know that the snakes aren't Wobble's GSB itself, but for all they know, the snakes could be a mini-beast created by it.

Spoiler

The Snakes != Wobble's GSB is all they know for certain.

Okay, then I get it, thanks. It confused me that Bill and Kurapika were seemingly so sure to rule out woble's beast being the culprit just because the beast itself cannot be the snake.
But on the other hand, that is of course making it less likely that woble's beast is the culprit, because there is just a 1 in 5 chance that it even is a conjurer, so them making sure that it is not Shimano makes sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 22, 2021 ---

The next question is more open: How do you make sense of Kite's resurrection?

Is it Kite's ability, like Ging said? After all, he was reborn by the Antqueen. Did Pitou just give the Antqueen part of his brain after she was done playing with it?

 

[Diivil]

How do you make sense of Kite's resurrection?

For me, it's by looking more closely at Pitou's 3 Nen abilities.

Pitou was born able to use Nen, but learned the mechanics of it by probing Pokkle's brain. From that, she used En to monitor the Nest, which Kite came in contact with.

Pitou resumed her En duties at the Nest right after Kite died, and continued until the king born. Once they moved to the palace, she remained on En duties until the invasion began, at which point she revealed her last Nen ability.

• Dr. Blythe: [created after fight]==> repair Kite.
• Puppets: [created after fight]==> control Kite.
• Terpischora: [???]==> move beyond your limit.

Kite has a weapon that only comes up when he doesn't want to die.

• What does the weapon do for Kite?
• When did Pitou create Terpischora?
• Kite was reborn from the CA Queen.

But, even Pitou's Dr. Blythe can't bring back someone who has died.




Morena Prudo's ability
For a long while I was confused on the interpretation of her ability, the way levels were presented, but it seems it was done on purpose:

You start at level 1, but the first kill doesn't change your level.

Spoiler

• (+1)--> killing the warehouse guard to prank the spiders

Luini killed 20 (+1)
LVL#1 --> Kill#0
LVL#1 --> Kill#1
LVL#2 --> Kill#2
...................
LVL#20 (+1) --> Kill#20 (+1)
(the real way to count, by kills)
(make your first two kills nen users, LVL#20 --> Kill#2)



Luini killed 20 (+1)
LVL#1 --> Kill#0
LVL#2 --> Kill#1
LVL#3 --> Kill#2
...................
LVL#21 (+1) --> Kill#20 (+1)
(the alternative way to count, by lvls)
(make your first two kills nen users, LVL#21 --> Kill#2)

The mystery/clue that Luini left for Mizaistom to uncover.

 

[Oobiman]

The next question is more open: How do you make sense of Kite's resurrection?

Is it Kite's ability, like Ging said? After all, he was reborn by the Antqueen. Did Pitou just give the Antqueen part of his brain after she was done playing with it?

His ability is reckless, maybe a higher number would have kept him alive, or maybe not, all we know is that he's still alive thanks to his ability.

What's i'm trying to say is that he doesn't appear to be someone who like taking risk, it feels like he know that his aura know better than him what weapon he need, so everytime he fight,he believe his ability will give him what he need. And when he was about to die, he did the same, he intrusted his soul to his aura, and his aura did find a way to bring him back (maybe by infesting the newborn and taking his place).

It's even possible that his aura knew of his fate from the moment he lost his arm and sacrificed himself to give time for Gon and Killua to escape, and decided to give Kite a crappy number that can buy more time, because the only solution was the resurrection.