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Reading Collective reading of NAUSICAÄ by Hayao MIYAZAKI

ukimix

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My overall impressions.

This is a difficult story to read. And at the same time is a masterpiece of literature. I would like to discuss very much what is this story about and what could be its interpretations. So here I'm posting my view of it, in the first of some post I will be making about it


General plot



This two pages show us the scenario in which the story takes place. In a time when humanity was deeply despaired because of “the world had become polluted irrevocably…” some people had developed knowledge and technology powerful enough to try to recreate the creation. In desperation, they recreated an ecosystem, the sea of corruption, which crystallizes contaminated matter as a step in order to revive the barren earth. With some thousands of years, the barren earth would be revive. This originally secret plan is the background and an essential element of the story.

Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind is the story of a woman who was supposed to play her role in this plan, but instead of that, she ended destroying the plan and the crypt. If the crypt of Shuwa is a god able to create life, Nausicaä would be the deicide, the Prometheus who stole the true about the plan and ended killing the crypt. Just for that the story has the element of an epopee. But the people who created the crypt and the technology used by it have many common features with our civilization, and, because of that, the story can also be seen as a tragedy, as the tragedy of the people who tried to manipulate life.


Core of the story​

Miyasaki: The Fukai (Sea of Corruption) in Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind was a system which humans made one thousand years ago to clean up the environment. But even those who created it could not predict how the Fukai would change. No matter how many excellent ecologists work together, you can't (predict it).

For example, we can plant a camphor tree next to this office (Studio Ghibli). But we don't know what will happen to this tree. We can't predict what this tree will bring to humans: if it gives someone an opportunity to fall in love, or if it falls down and brings this building down. It's arrogant to think that we can predict. Humans can make a start, or set things up, but we cannot determine what will stay there, or whether a god will stay there or not.[1] I think this is a more appropriate way to see this world.

The things intended and the things that come about are different. So, the Fukai started as an artificially engineered ecosystem, but it changes into something different over time in this world. It suits my feelings better to think that even an artificially created forest can properly function as a forest, and becomes an ecosystem complicated beyond our imagination, than to think that it's no use to care about it, since it's not a natural forest.

The idea that Nature is gentle, and it creates the Fukai to recover the environment humans contaminated, or does something (for humans)-- that's not true. Clinging to such a naive view of the Earth is problematic. I came to think this way while I was writing Nausicaa.
In this interview Miyasaki explains a key of the story: in regards to the life that has been created with knowledge and technology, “the things intended and the things that come about are different”. In short, it’s impossible to predict what is going to happen with a living being created by humans; no matter how advanced the knowledge or how powerful the technology used in its creation are, the live created with them is not controllable, and not predictable.

In my opinion, this is the key of the whole story, in the sense that the story tells us what happen when some humans capable of creating life, try to predict, to control the curse of the life created by them. I see three different narrations of this very same idea. One is the main story, the story of the people who created the crypt of Shuwa, of their knowledge and technology. The second, it’s the narrations of what happen with religion in the story. And the last one, it’s the story of Ohma, the God warrior, about which Miyasaki explicitly pronounced.


Nausicaä, the deicide creature.

I like to see the story of Nausicaä as the story of a deicide. After all, she is a human whose body has been altered for the sake of the plan. Miyasaki conviction is that is not possible to predict what will happen with the Fukai. I like to describe this point saying that it’s because the Fukay is an ecosystem made of living-forms that it becomes unpredictable/uncontrollable. In short: live is unpredictable change. The Fukai born as the disposable tool of a plan but became something different, it became, if you let me, live at the service of more live. The naïve of the creators of the crypt consists in think that they could give live a purpose or an objective. In Nausicaä’s words: “an ecosystem with a goal. Its very existence runs contrary to the laws of nature”. (http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/7/136). Contrary to it, the only objective/purpose of live is life itself.

Now, what can be said about the way the story portraits this naïve view? Just with the lines and colors of a master piece: the fact that humans become modified or transformed humans in order to let the engineering ecosystems reach its goal, is a golden paradox. Here the creators (the crypt and the pure humans) got assassinated by the creation (the Fukai, Ohma, the modified or corrupted humans). And in that way, the transformation, the modification of human DNA, is just the concrete, tragic and beautiful sign the seal the fate of the naïve creators.


A tragic fate​
Now, I have to point that I don’t like to see the story as if it would have some kind of moral about that human arrogance shown in the intent to provide the fukay an objective. I don’t like the reading: “see what happens when you try to control mother nature?”, and I don’t like the nature religion. Eve more, let me ask this: suppose you and your people (children, fathers, etc.) live in the middle of a Earth massive polluted, in which “poisoned air, punishing sunlight parched earth, new illnesses coming into being every day” (http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/7/203). And suppose you have the tech and knowledge to create an ecosystem that can clean the environment in a long period of time. I mean, suppose you are exactly in the same position, those people who created the crypt were, now, what would you do?

I have to say that I would have done exactly the same things that those people did. Nausicaä rationale seems to be that those people do have a choice: “why didn’t those men and women realize that both purity and corruption are the very stuff of live?” (http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/7/204). But that believe would be of little help if I can see the children of my children will die because of the pollution. I mean, I couldn’t cross my arms and just accept it. I have to agree that I also wouldn’t have the same attitude of the crypt in slavering modified humans and managing living beings like the crypt and the heedras as it did. But what I say is that I their initial choice understandable and that Nausicaä’s certainty about what to do wouldn’t help me at all, namely to accept that the corruption, and the death of our children are part of the life we should have to live. Possibly some middle term would be my option.

That’s why I don’t like to interpret the story as if it would be as a blind defence of nature, about not altering the natural process we have in the ecosystems we live in. Instead of that I prefer to see the story as a tragedy: even if you choose to do something to save your children in a polluted environment, once this enterprise imply the creation of another life-forms, then you can’t control anymore the results. The tragedy express this believe in a master way in the fact that the people who try to safe their children with the technology and stuff, ended being exterminated by their own creations. Such a master parable without moral messages to consider.

I will update this post with three more comments, one about religion, another one about Ohma the God Warrior, and a final one about Kushana. I agree with k-dom. Kushana is just superb.
 
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Zehahaha

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Well... I liked the plot and the characters, no doubt about it, this is an absolutely great story, enjoyed it very much, and as k-dom said, it was nice that there's an important female character, it changes a bit from the usual stuff I read too

But still, I had a very big problem with the art, in fact, if I didn't insist on reading it thanks to your comments, I doubt I'd have continued reading it... The art sucks for me, but that's understandable considering the technology available during the early 80's if I'm correct
 

ukimix

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Well... I liked the plot and the characters, no doubt about it, this is an absolutely great story, enjoyed it very much, and as k-dom said, it was nice that there's an important female character, it changes a bit from the usual stuff I read too

But still, I had a very big problem with the art, in fact, if I didn't insist on reading it thanks to your comments, I doubt I'd have continued reading it... The art sucks for me, but that's understandable considering the technology available during the early 80's if I'm correct
That's a shame! I wonder... Have you watched the movie, (which is mostly about the first 2 volumes.)? It could help if you want to give it a final try.
 

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It's funny to say you don't like the art. It's god Miyasaki at the drawings :-)
Well I guess it's not a standard art but I don't think it is only the fact that it was made in the 80's. It really is similar to what he has done for his movies and I don't think it has aged to much compare to some manga from the 90s like Flame of Recca. But art his always subjective, I tend to like the atypical ones more.
 

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It's funny to say you don't like the art. It's god Miyasaki at the drawings :-)
Well I guess it's not a standard art but I don't think it is only the fact that it was made in the 80's. It really is similar to what he has done for his movies and I don't think it has aged to much compare to some manga from the 90s like Flame of Recca. But art his always subjective, I tend to like the atypical ones more.
Recently I must say my tastes changed, The Ravages of Time changed everything I liked literally... Although its art at the beginning isn't that great either, but it gets better and better afterwards, to the point where it equals Berserk if you ask me, even my tastes when it comes to the story changed thanks to that manwha, I keep rereading it every goddamn day, I just can't get enough of it

But I know that Miyasaki is like a god, but I suppose that perhaps I made a comparison between it and the Ravages of Time unconsciously ? I dunno really. But the story is great, that much is clear, a very deep manga
 

ukimix

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I have to admit the manga was difficult to read to me, and the art was a cause. I mean, it's clear he is a god. But for instance, it called my attention the fact that every panel is, to say it so, fully drawn:


In comparison with most of the comics I have read, the other mangakas didn't draw that huge amount of lines on a page. It's like he has a powerful imagination capable to draw even the most simple details in every panel. That made me difficult precisely to focus on the details. If I compare with the movies, that huge amount of details are pretty beautiful, as in Spirited Away or like in the Howls Moving Castle, two of my favourite films from all times. In the movies the details was just there as part of a fluently story easy to told and easy to watch. An film-maker of animated movies needs a powerful imagination to be able to create such a beautiful films as those ones. But in the manga, sometimes it was like if every page would have too much information. For instance, in Sabaku no Tami, you have pages like this:


Notice the huge amount of lines in the bottom-right panel. There you have sheep, two warriors with their armours devoutly drawn, and in the background a huge amount of lines which seems to correspond to a distant mountain. I suppose to represent a mountain that amount of details wasn't necessary. But if you are going to make a movie with that, surely to have the power to image the mountain in full detail will help you to represent the details and the movement in the movie. Well, I'm not an expert, but maybe to draw has different meanings in manga than in anime.

Anyway, that bothers my reading a bit, but it was not a major problem to me. I could enjoy the story, and also found such powerful drawings like those ones:

 
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Googlez_kun

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Just buy the volumes, they are a lot clearer.
 

ukimix

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Just buy the volumes, they are a lot clearer.
ot that! :amuse

---------- Post added June 20, 2013 at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was June 14, 2013 at 05:54 AM ----------

The God Warrior

As I said before, there is a pattern in this comic about the fact that a creator of a living being can't control/predict what is going to happen to his/her creation. The fukai, or the sea of corruption is an example. Another one is the God Warrior, who was created with the technology developed by the people who created the Crypt of Shuwa, as a tool to take their plan to its final goal of providing the pure humans a safe environment.

Miyasaki talks about the God Warrior in this nice interview, showing us also what he finds pretty original in him:

Y: interviewer
M: Miyasaki


Y: Didn't how you ended the movie influence the manga after that?

M: As I said before, the movie had concluded, and I wasn't writing the manga to replicate it. I didn't think about what I did in the movie at all. Anyway, I forgot what I did. -laughs-
But when I was making the movie Nausicaa, I was insisting that I was making Nausicaa with "wishes," not "this is the way reality is." But, when I finished the movie, I found myself deeply immersed in the religious domain that I didn't want to get into very much. I thought "this wasn't good," and I was really driven into a tight corner.
So, after the movie, I told myself that I would approach the problem more seriously to continue the manga, but once I started, there were so many things I couldn't understand. From the beginning to the end, I ended up writing with a whole lot of things I couldn't understand.

Y: It was longer after you finished the movie.

M: Yes. So, there might have been readers coming and going, and I wrote it in the magazine thinking that they might not understand what's going on (because they joined in the middle of the story). However, I ended up thinking too much about things I can't understand at all.

Y: You mean?

M: If we take the (existence of) god as a premise, we can explain the world by that. But I can't do that. And yet, I stepped into the area I didn't want to get into, such as humans and life.
I can manage to understand the world as conflicts and contradictions among humans, but I find myself not being satisfied with that level (of explanation).
Then I have nothing I can say with confidence.
My head gets dizzy by just thinking what would you do if you are called "mama" by a God Warrior with such a destructive power. So, Nausicaa's perplexity is just my own perplexity.

Y: Near the end of the manga, the God Warrior had a role totally different from that in the movie...

M: You can find a meeting with a giant one who gives you a power in many popular cultures. Such as the elephant herd in Tarzan, or Tetsujin 28go (Giganto). The reason why they appear so many times in different shapes can be explained as our wish to return to a huge existence or our impulse for growing up, or something like that. Usually in the popular culture, it's made ambiguous by just saying that a huge power is OK if it's good.
Actually, most of the power has been made by technologies. I think a technology itself is neutral and innocent. It's same with automobiles. They are loyal and truly devoted to drivers.
We feel safe thinking machines have no heart, but actually, men give machines hearts. A loyal heart, innocent devotion, and self sacrifice are the machines' essence. It's like a dog obeying the orders of a master no matter how evil the master is. I think the thought that humans give hearts to machines is the base of Asimov's "Three Rules of Robotics." The God Warrior in Nausicaa is not that original an idea. The design, too, you can find its root in many preexisting designs. But, the moment I gave a tangible shape to "innocence," it became something I can't control. I think I gave it a shape because I have a strong yearning for innocent ones...

Y: The story changed after the God Warrior became cognizant.

M: When I'm writing this kind of story, I have no choice but to think that even just a thought occurred to me or some meaningless pieces do have meanings to me. Even though the structure of the work would collapse, I shouldn't forget those pieces. No, I can't explain it well.
I think there may have been people who could explain it with deeper, sharper, more proper words long before I started thinking. I painfully realized I don't have such a capability.

Hell yes, it's quite amazing that a God, suddenly calls you 'mama'. So innocence is a pretty determinant feature of him. The other feature is his overwhelming power. The mixture is quite impressive, but even more if we take in account the fact that this innocent ends killing his creator. That is a second pattern, the pattern of the deicide: not only the creator can't control or predict what the creature will do (first pattern), but in Nausicä the creature ends killing the creator. This applies to Nausicaä and also to the God Warrior.

It's also interesting that the first pattern, -the creator can't control/predict the creature's behaviour- not only repeats in the cases of the Sea of corruption and the God Warrior, but also in Miyasaki: he thought it was pretty amazing that a god would do such a thing (to call innocently 'mama' to someone else), and wrote it, but when he did it he didn't know what was going to happen next. It could be said that a fictional story is, in this and other cases, something that happens to its author. Now, the second pattern, fortunately didn't apply to Miyasaki, tho, in the interview, he says that when he finished Nausicaä he first old for the first time :-) This second patter, to me is a very great accomplishment and gives to the story much of its beauty.

Miyasaki says that he tried to write about things that he didn't understand and ends recognising that he was not that good to say what he wanted to say. But then, we could add that he was completely honest and loyal to his creation.

The full interview can be read here.
 
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My final thought about the manga is simply amazement ... It’s brilliantly written... I don't like to comment on the art much as I like almost all ….

It also highlighted as the fact the the evil .. or the villain of the story was not very easy to handle here or even to identify .. Initially there were different thoughts which completely changed as we approached the end of the manga.... Its “good” which is when planned and got obsessed with... turns into evil for some others... It turned out that everyone was portrayed as evil at some point of the story (even Nausicaa initially got driven by her anger in the start of the manga) and at the same time it was also portrayed that no one was evil…. The Torumekian army were fighting to sustain their existence.. doroks were fighting being greedy and blind in the power.. and everything was being manipulated by the crypt with the memories of people who thought it would be best that world ends and then start all over again (they were the one obsessed with the idea that will save humanity .. they were doing some “good” by spreading sea of corruption by any means possible (human or inhuman).. I just respected Nausicaas judgement on things ... which were so difficult to even understand ... Finally it turns out that everyone had their reasons...

The best part is the transition of people.... It is said that people can change their personality but not who they are deep down... But I think after reading this manga .. I would say people can change ... and its just one moment in life which is required for that change ... If a person has not changed entirely at some point of time.. then its just that he/she has not experienced that moment yet... Its still to come.... The sudden realisations of people were handled so beautifully in the manga that it never felt sudden... everything was smooth .. The development of each character ... including Torumekian's Prince or King or Dorok's priests ... and then their transition ...

Even the whole development/evolution of god warrior... It was beautiful ...... the innocence of the living being was portrayed so well ..the giant warrior never felt evil even for a moment .. and then the whole “developing its own conscious” part ... The god warrior afterwards started taking its own decisions ... there was no blood line genes ... its a pure being .... developed under some influence... Its like how u say .. cop's child could be a thief if raised by a thief... here the evolution was fast but still it was influenced .. influenced by Nausicaa.... Child’s devotion towards her mother … and Nausica’s motherly love was all touching…

I would like to thank the community and the members to introduce me this master piece... I loved it :) Thank you
 

ukimix

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My final thought about the manga is simply amazement ... It’s brilliantly written... I don't like to comment on the art much as I like almost all ….

It also highlighted as the fact the the evil .. or the villain of the story was not very easy to handle here or even to identify .. Initially there were different thoughts which completely changed as we approached the end of the manga.... Its “good” which is when planned and got obsessed with... turns into evil for some others... It turned out that everyone was portrayed as evil at some point of the story (even Nausicaa initially got driven by her anger in the start of the manga) and at the same time it was also portrayed that no one was evil…. The Torumekian army were fighting to sustain their existence.. doroks were fighting being greedy and blind in the power.. and everything was being manipulated by the crypt with the memories of people who thought it would be best that world ends and then start all over again (they were the one obsessed with the idea that will save humanity .. they were doing some “good” by spreading sea of corruption by any means possible (human or inhuman).. I just respected Nausicaas judgement on things ... which were so difficult to even understand ... Finally it turns out that everyone had their reasons...

The best part is the transition of people.... It is said that people can change their personality but not who they are deep down... But I think after reading this manga .. I would say people can change ... and its just one moment in life which is required for that change ... If a person has not changed entirely at some point of time.. then its just that he/she has not experienced that moment yet... Its still to come.... The sudden realisations of people were handled so beautifully in the manga that it never felt sudden... everything was smooth .. The development of each character ... including Torumekian's Prince or King or Dorok's priests ... and then their transition ...

Even the whole development/evolution of god warrior... It was beautiful ...... the innocence of the living being was portrayed so well ..the giant warrior never felt evil even for a moment .. and then the whole “developing its own conscious” part ... The god warrior afterwards started taking its own decisions ... there was no blood line genes ... its a pure being .... developed under some influence... Its like how u say .. cop's child could be a thief if raised by a thief... here the evolution was fast but still it was influenced .. influenced by Nausicaa.... Child’s devotion towards her mother … and Nausica’s motherly love was all touching…

I would like to thank the community and the members to introduce me this master piece... I loved it :) Thank you
I had hard times trying to see Nausicaä as a story about god and bad. I think it simply doesn't work that way. These my reasons:

Nausicaä wants to defend every life-form as something that contains the whole universe inside of it; then why she ordered Ohma to kill the crypt?


“Ohma! Return this begin to darkness!!”: despite those words seem to be a paradox in Nausicaä’s mouth, they are not. Nausicaä is being consistent with her ideals; after all death, namely the dead of living things, is also part of the live that changes. Master Yupa understood it clearly when he sacrificed himself for the future live of his people, in saving Kushana. The crypt is just another ‘god’ a god of purity that has to die, to let live to open its way to the future.
But here you can ask: but if the crypt would have had enough power to neutralize Ohma and to eliminate Nausicaä, the crypt would have been as consistent as Nausicaä in eliminating an obstacle. The crypt wanted to kill humans and some other living beings; and Nausicaä wanted to kill crypt. Then why is Nausicaä less an assassin than the crypt? Why Nausicaä’s ideal is better or truer than the crypt’s one? Looking that way this seems to be one of those stories that ends with the victory of the strongest one of the most powerful.

In short, the crypt wanted to create an environment for certain kind of humanity. Nausicaä ended saving the humanity she belongs to. And the most powerful was the one who won. I find difficult to understand this battle between a god side and a bad side. Instead each side was fighting by its survival. That was my conclusion some weeks ago, until I found those interviews to Miyasaki, and I realize it was much better to see the story as the tragedy of some people who wants to control living beings, and as an epopee of one of those creatures who manage to kill her creators, the figure of the deicide. So it's not about bad and good, but about the nature of living beings and their will to survive.


Ey guys, once you have end Nausicaä you really must read Shuna no Tabi.

The Journey of Shuna by Hayao MIYAZAKI

Description: Taken from http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/manga/shuna.html

"Shuna" is an all-watercolor manga published under Animage JuJu Bunko (Bunko is in smaller size than ordinary manga tankobons). It is more like a picture book than a manga, since it has only one or two panels per page, and no balloons for dialogues. Published in 1983, Shuna is considered by some as a Nausicaä prototype. Compared to Miyazaki's anime work, the story of Shuna is very dark and intense. But as in his other works, it is filled with characters possessing a strong will to live, and ends with hope.
The visuals are stunning. It is beautifully and delicately colored in watercolor. There are many familiar images which you also find in Miyazaki's later movies, such as giants, ruins overgrown with plants, a boy, a girl, and goats.

Personal note:

The stories of Prometheus, Shuna and Nausicaä shares some common resemblances. All of them tries to steal some precious belonging of the gods, but all of them with different results. Sure, Shuna is a prototype of Nausicaä but also of Mononoke. You will meet a very enjoyable story in which you will be able to keept the track of many characters of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind.

You can read it here.
 
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ukimix

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Just buy the volumes, they are a lot clearer.
I just bought the 2 volumes Spanish deluxe edition, in hard cover. You were completely right!!! It's beautiful. :verily

So happy! :^_^
 
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