Reading Collective Reading of PLUTO by Naoki Urasawa & Osamu Tezuka

[SharkBait]

Well after chp 26 lost all motivation to continue, why he do that to Atom I cant its too emotional for me.

 

[ukimix]

Well after chp 26 lost all motivation to continue, why he do that to Atom I cant its too emotional for me.

Atom didn't appeared with horns in his head. I bet he's alive or that's what I hope.

 

[SharkBait]

Dr. Hoffman, Gesicth, Tenma, and even Adolf all make interesting points and comments all throughout. The AI discussion and needing human feelings to help nurture it into the perfect mind was the most compelling idea presented, though I wonder why it would need to feel that much hatred. Surely not every human expresses such intense feelings at times to want to kill and etc, so that cant really be a guarantee to get a perfect brain.

Atom was the most intense moment for me especially with Bobby and the son there the whole time initially, combined with the initial dog repair moments. Looking forward to tackling v5.

 

[Faust]

Spoiler: Atom as "A Failure" in the Original Astroboy by Tezuka

Tenma said that Atom was a failure because in the Astro Boy Manga Dr. Tenma's son, Tobio died and he created Atom/Astroboy to replace him. He then dumped Atom/Astroboy because he's an imperfect copy of his deceased Human Son, Tobio Tenma.

Spoiler: It was featured in the Chapter 28 Flashback

 

[SharkBait]

Spoiler: Atom as "A Failure" in the Original Astroboy by Tezuka

Tenma said that Atom was a failure because in the Astro Boy Manga Dr. Tenma's son, Tobio died and he created Atom/Astroboy to replace him. He then dumped Atom/Astroboy because he's an imperfect copy of his deceased Human Son, Tobio Tenma.

Spoiler: It was featured in the Chapter 28 Flashback

But what makes him imperfect here?

 

[ukimix]

Spoiler: Atom as "A Failure" in the Original Astroboy by Tezuka

Tenma said that Atom was a failure because in the Astro Boy Manga Dr. Tenma's son, Tobio died and he created Atom/Astroboy to replace him. He then dumped Atom/Astroboy because he's an imperfect copy of his deceased Human Son, Tobio Tenma.

Spoiler: It was featured in the Chapter 28 Flashback

What chapter is that in the original Astroboy? I'd like to look at it.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

But what makes him imperfect here?

One dark possibility is that he's/was not able to kill... up to now.

 

[Faust]

What chapter is that in the original Astroboy? I'd like to look at it.

I'm just aware of that fact in Astroboy. Haven't read the Astroboy manga yet.
And it's in the Synopsis

Tobio, was built by the brilliant Dr. Tenma to replace his dead son. But when it soon becomes apparent that Tobio is an imperfect copy of his departed child, Dr. Tenma throws him out.

 

[k-dom]

I understand why a robot would not be able to completely copy a human especially one existing and you were close to. But that doesn't really explain why Tenma would search perfect completing a perfect AI with evil feeling. I doubt his son had murder thought before he died.

 

[ukimix]

Thread opened for comments on Volume 5 (chapters 32 to 39), from November 29 to December 6

Enjoy your reading!​

---------- Post added December 03, 2013 at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was December 02, 2013 at 06:07 PM ----------

Some comments on vol 5:

From this chapter this explanation called my attention:

Understanding hatre​

Most of the volume is focused on explaining this idea. So in chapter 32 we can see how despicable was Adolf’s brother in torturing little robots. Ch 33 shows us how Heracles killed many robots, in following the orders given to him by humans. Even we can see in this chapter how a sophisticated robot gets mad and loses the control of his AI, due to the crimes he made in the war. Clearly the authors want to show us that the advanced mass murder robots were put in such a terrible situation and dilema. It's kind of a logical reaction that these advanced robots hate the humans who ordered to kill robots. And it's not the case of the non-advanced robots who don't understand the pain caused for a lost son.

Later in chapter 38, Tenma offers some technical explanation of the 'benefits' for an advanced robots when they experiment pain, sadness and other negative feelings. The idea is that the does feelings turn the impossible into possible, or make possible for an advanced robot to organize a massive amount of data; like what happened with the perfect robot Tenma constructed.

But again, still is not clear to me, why only negative emotions are that good for A.I. Also, I'm very intrigued about the teddy bear. Why does he say he’s the only one who is not a mistake or the death? Is it that he wants to be the only advanced robot?

 

[SharkBait]

Just finished the volume (and what a cliffhanger it was). The events with Gesicth and the family was the most suspenseful part in awhile. Just all of them in the car the feelings Gesicth is trying to confront, and then the husband worrying about his family while willing to sacrifice himself, really changed my opinion on him. In any event the manga continhes to make the distinction between humans and AI unclear especially with the adoption scene and family in wich they state this must be how a human feels. Even hatred in the present day with Gesicth even too.

 

[Faust]

Was it Pluto or the Teddy Bear that Dr. Tenma created?

 

[k-dom]

Funny I only read the last chapters of volume 5 afterwards and damn. How does it change my understanding of a character.
Tenma is not the bad guy of the story. Just a genius scientist who has lost hope because of a drama.
As expected Atom can be saved. My guess is that the direction that you have to give is not necessarily a bad one.

 

[Faust]

Tenma's character was made to look like a bad character ever since Astroboy.

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------

So what would happen when Atom wakes up? Will it be chaotic?

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 PM ----------

We can now read Vol. 6 right?

 

[ukimix]

Sorry guys, for being away this week, which is the week for Vol 6 according to the schedule agreed (written in the first post).

Dec 7 to 13 -----> Volume 6: chapters 40 to 47

I'll write some comments on vol 6 today or tomorrow, and since tomorrow until the next Dec 19 we will welcome comments on vol 7.

---------- Post added December 18, 2013 at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was December 12, 2013 at 04:48 PM ----------

My comments on vol 6

Very revealing volume! I'm still impressed for the story of Gesicht. Being killed by his own son, who was brainwashed in order to be able to kill his father… But even so, Gesicht was happy in his final moment, because he could find his beloved son. Oh my god!! Absolute sadness and absolute evilness.

In regards to the mysteries we have found in the story, I see Abra is the person/robot behind the crimes. He created Pluto (using his son for that purpose) and also those cockroach robots we have seen. The cockroach robots killed the scientists and Pluto the advanced robots. But what is the relationship between teddy-robot and Abra? And what the relationship between Tracia and Persia? the mystery still remains.

Finally we understand the memory of the 500 zeus was a data created to cover some erased memory.

Is Atom dead? Still I don't believe it.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

I'm not sure if in Christmas time you are reading that much as in the previous weeks. It would be nice if you guys tell everybody where you go. Still, let's agree we can post now comments on volume 7

Thread opened for comments on Volume 7 (chapters 48 to 55), from December 14 to 22

Enjoy your reading!​

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

In regards to the son of Gesicht, I may be wrong in thinking that it's the robot that killed Gesicht; since it was hinted that he was murdered by the brother of Adolf. So maybe it was just a robot of the same kind, even if they both looked completely similar.

---------- Post added December 26, 2013 at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was December 18, 2013 at 05:48 PM ----------

According to the schedule, this is the last week for of the reading for comments on the Vol 8th and on all the story (from Dec 23 to 29).

I have finished the story… All I want to say now, to avoid spoiling the story for the possible current readers, is that there is a good reason for the fact that hate and sadness and negative emotions nurture the evolution of the most advanced robot. I'll wait a bit to see if someone else ends and wants to discuss the whole story.

What an amazing story!!!

 

[Faust]

*reading Volume 6*

 

[k-dom]

I finished volume 7.
I think in a postface, there was someone who said that Tezuka was mean with his readers and I must say I understand better now why.

 

[ukimix]

Right now I have the strong impression that the original story should have to be improved really much, and if I think I won't read the original story, I would like to read a good summary of it; only to confirm or deny that impression.

 

[Faust]

I got confused with Abra - Goji - Sahad.

 

[ukimix]

The last volume explains it.

 

[Faust]

The last volume explains it.

I finished the manga and I'm still confused.

Spoiler