Discussion Comparing Edens Zero to other Mashima works

[Jammin]

Inuyasha would beg to differ. Great love driven battle manga right there.

 

[Prince of the RL District]

Yeah and Hiro's not exactly the greatest at story telling nor execution for that matter.

So my worry is well placed tbh.

It irks me when people say stuff like this. Have u even read rave master? That's hiro's first manga, go read it before u judge all his works cuz of a few shits he did to fairy tail. And fairy tail wasn't even that bad, it was just the last arc that was really bad. Yes, hiro may not be the best at story telling, but no mangaka's is perfect(like jknetwork said), but he's story telling and execution is still pretty up there(when u read RM u will realize this) and Edens zero's story and execution has been kicking ass so far.

 

[King Moe]

It irks me when people say stuff like this. Have u even read rave master? That's hiro's first manga, go read it before u judge all his works cuz of a few shits he did to fairy tail. And fairy tail wasn't even that bad, it was just the last arc that was really bad. Yes, hiro may not be the best at story telling, but no mangaka's is perfect(like jknetwork said), but he's story telling and execution is still pretty up there(when u read RM u will realize this) and Edens zero's story and execution has been kicking ass so far.

Also people can't seem to understand and read his Interviews and Afterwords on his series where Rave Master was his planned work while Fairy Tail was meant for shorter series and didn't have much planning for it. It's simple to see he wasn't good keeping it going in the long run unlike Rave Master who he knew from start to finish and it went as great Masterpiece that many said still is his best work.

With Eden's Zero he stated many times he knows how it goes and planning for it to point even stated how long it be on longer than RM, but shorter than FT. If that is the case and from what we seen, he is great writer especially when he is planning something. People need to get ideologically of authors can't evoled and change as well judge them solely on not liking their previous series and thinking they do same mistakes again. He self-aware as he stated he seen criticism and have shown he has understand how to write things in better effort than before.

I get issues with FT, but shouldn't judge it that EZ will end up when even for him in business sense, he wants it be different from FT and even better than it. We should give fair dues when fair dues are deserved after all and Mashima is making effort to get better as he writes.

 

[Jammin]

The perception that romance and shounen don't go together doesn't come from nowhere. It's fumbled more often than it's handled well. But when it is it elevates a series quite a lot.

 

[Mirage]

It irks me when people say stuff like this. Have u even read rave master? That's hiro's first manga, go read it before u judge all his works cuz of a few shits he did to fairy tail. And fairy tail wasn't even that bad, it was just the last arc that was really bad. Yes, hiro may not be the best at story telling, but no mangaka's is perfect(like jknetwork said), but he's story telling and execution is still pretty up there(when u read RM u will realize this) and Edens zero's story and execution has been kicking ass so far.

Rave Master was his best work, but still wasn't anything amazing. It was also rushed. FT was definitely "that bad" objectively. The formula it had was repetitive, the character development for the most part was non-existent, the fights were bad, the execution for just about everything was really bad.

Did we read the same manga?

EZ has been good thus far, you're right, but I still worry Hiro won't pull through due to his past actions.

 

[Jammin]

Rave Master was his best work, but still wasn't anything amazing. It was also rushed. FT was definitely "that bad" objectively. The formula it had was repetitive, the character development for the most part was non-existent, the fights were bad, the execution for just about everything was really bad.

Did we read the same manga?

EZ has been good thus far, you're right, but I still worry Hiro won't pull through due to his past actions.

Nah, FT wasn't bad. At it's worst it was average. Bad is 3 teirs down from that.

Mashima always had an effective story he tells. His flaw past flaws tend to be that it's not particularly ambitious. He knows the shounen formulas well and will lean on those longer than he should sometimes. And his characters have, at times, not grown the way they should. Natsu for example, whom i quite like, never really changes. He's always the same.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 19, 2020 ---

That's one of the reason I'm so high on Edens Zero, actually. The plot has been very ambitious and difficult to predict. And his characters do seem to be growing. Like Shiki isn't quite the same innocent he was at the start of the series. Weisz is starting to reach a different place. And Rebecca has grown a lot.

 

[Acnologia2415]

Rave Master was his best work, but still wasn't anything amazing. It was also rushed. FT was definitely "that bad" objectively. The formula it had was repetitive, the character development for the most part was non-existent, the fights were bad, the execution for just about everything was really bad.

Did we read the same manga?

EZ has been good thus far, you're right, but I still worry Hiro won't pull through due to his past actions.

Fairy Tail wasnt meant to be a well written manga, it was supposed to be and IS a lighthearted adventure manga where Hiro didn't have ANYTHING planned out. The dude literally came up with stuff on the spot and look how well the series did. Of course, I'm not saying the writing was bad at certain points, but I'm just saying that it is what it was meant to be. The last arc however was the longest arc and also the worst imo, so I can see how that affected everyone's views on Fairy Tail.

Hiro isn't the best story teller, which can be seen even in his best work so far: Rave Master. But for some reason, people who don't like his writing still continue to read his work. I don't know why, but it has to be because he has some charm in his work, or else why would we keep reading? The main point of Hiro's work is to have a fun time and enjoy his writing, not to expect top tier writing. Not saying you can't critique his work, but just know what to expect.

 

[Mirage]

Nah, FT wasn't bad. At it's worst it was average. Bad is 3 teirs down from that.

Mashima always had an effective story he tells. His flaw past flaws tend to be that it's not particularly ambitious. He knows the shounen formulas well and will lean on those longer than he should sometimes. And his characters have, at times, not grown the way they should. Natsu for example, whom i quite like, never really changes. He's always the same.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 19, 2020 ---

That's one of the reason I'm so high on Edens Zero, actually. The plot has been very ambitious and difficult to predict. And his characters do seem to be growing. Like Shiki isn't quite the same innocent he was at the start of the series. Weisz is starting to reach a different place. And Rebecca has grown a lot.

Character development = Non-existent.
Execution =Terrible 99% of the time.
Story = Mediocre at very best.
Build up = Good.
Actual treatment of characters: Bad (Besides Natsu & Lucy).

It's most definitely objectively bad. It's a fun series if you turn your brain off I guess, but that's obviously a sign of something not being good.

Fairy Tail wasnt meant to be a well written manga.

Cop out. Even something less serious like OPM that isn't supposed to be "well written" is actually in fact more well written than FT, which is funny.

I don't understand why people can't objectively call FT bad lol.

 

[Acnologia2415]

Character development = Non-existent.
Execution =Terrible 99% of the time.
Story = Mediocre at very best.
Build up = Good.
Actual treatment of characters: Bad (Besides Natsu & Lucy).

It's most definitely objectively bad. It's a fun series if you turn your brain off I guess, but that's obviously a sign of something not being good.


Cop out. Even something less serious like OPM that isn't supposed to be "well written" is actually in fact more well written than FT, which is funny.

I don't understand why people can't objectively call FT bad lol.

It is badly written. Though I was explaining why. Also you skipped the part where I said Hiro didn't plan anything out, which is the main reason as to why it's badly written. I'm pretty sure the author of OPM has some things planned out, though I might be wrong.

 

[Jammin]

Character development = Non-existent.
Execution =Terrible 99% of the time.
Story = Mediocre at very best.
Build up = Good.
Actual treatment of characters: Bad (Besides Natsu & Lucy).

It's most definitely objectively bad. It's a fun series if you turn your brain off I guess, but that's obviously a sign of something not being good.

I'm not sure "objectively" means what you think it means. Because most of those are "subjective" in particular treatment of the characters and execution.

Subjectively bad is "I don't like this".
Objectively bad is "This doesn't make sense."

If you think Fairy Tail is bad your a very fortunate person. Because really bad stuff is so much worse than anything Mashima has ever done. Go read like Big Order. It puts things in perspective.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. Don't do that. Nobody ever do that.

 

[Mirage]

I'm not sure "objectively" means what you think it means. Because most of those are "subjective" in particular treatment of the characters and execution.

Subjectively bad is "I don't like this".
Objectively bad is "This doesn't make sense."

If you think Fairy Tail is bad your a very fortunate person. Because really bad stuff is so much worse than anything Mashima has ever done. Go read like Big Order. It puts things in perspective.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. Don't do that. Nobody ever do that.

It means exactly how I'm using it man.

Looking at Fairy Tail, the series, in the grand scheme of things, is not a well written series. You can still like it (subjective) but that doesn't mean it's a well written series. (objective).

It's not "subjective" to think that zero character development is good development. That's called being biased/delusional. Zero character development is in fact bad character treatment and writing overall, objectively.

 

[Jammin]

It means exactly how I'm using it man.

Looking at Fairy Tail, the series, in the grand scheme of things, is not a well written series. You can still like it (subjective) but that doesn't mean it's a well written series. (objective).

It's not "subjective" to think that zero character development is good development. That's called being biased/delusional. Zero character development is in fact bad character treatment and writing overall, objectively.

Give me an example then? You vague proclamation of it being not well written doesn't really mean much? Surely you can provide an example of this bad writing?

 

[Mirage]

Give me an example then? You vague proclamation of it being not well written doesn't really mean much? Surely you can provide an example of this bad writing?

I just gave you some above. I'm honestly baffled that you can't comprehend what I'm saying lol.

 

[NegaiFreak]

I just gave you some above. I'm honestly baffled that you can't comprehend what I'm saying lol.

You didn't give examples. You just listed off how the writing was handled.

Anyways, I personally think EZ is better than Fairy Tail for the moment. Is it better than Rave Master? I don't know... because I haven't read it yet, nor do I have the desire to read it.

At least with EZ, there's a better amount of characterization and more variety with a huge opportunity for world-building. The space theme really helps.

 

[Ankhseram]

A lot of comparative discussions in this thread. Me still here trying to figure out what is this subjective and objective ratings. XD

Never read/watched this famed Rave Master series of Hiro Mashima, tho being following his manga works for 10 years now. One day I might seriously have to read that manga I guess. On point, I am liking Edens Zero a lot since past few months but still can't say that Edens Zero is better than Fairy Tail as of now. But it sure started as good as Fairy Tail, arguably maybe better than it. Hoping this manga would be a full on space roller coaster ride.

 

[Valhalla]

A lot of comparative discussions in this thread. Me still here trying to figure out what is this subjective and objective ratings. XD

Never read/watched this famed Rave Master series of Hiro Mashima, tho being following his manga works for 10 years now. One day I might seriously have to read that manga I guess. On point, I am liking Edens Zero a lot since past few months but still can't say that Edens Zero is better than Fairy Tail as of now. But it sure started as good as Fairy Tail, arguably maybe better than it. Hoping this manga would be a full on space roller coaster ride.

Subjective opinions and ratings are more or less your personal opinions of a certain subject, your personal points of view etc, while objective ratings are more kinda fact based, a point that is agreeable by most and is backed up by facts, basically something that most can agree on, i think.
Subjectively id say Rave Master is my favorite work of Mashima, easy, and is probably the best one of the Mashima big three, but thats just an opinion, and a very subjective one.
Looking at it objectively, its arguable weather Rave is better than FT or EZ, and there are stuff that FT and EZ do much better than Rave. Its all up to good discussions among people to come up with a good objective rating and opinion.

 

[susanoo13]

Subjective opinions and ratings are more or less your personal opinions of a certain subject, your personal points of view etc, while objective ratings are more kinda fact based, a point that is agreeable by most and is backed up by facts, basically something that most can agree on, i think.
Subjectively id say Rave Master is my favorite work of Mashima, easy, and is probably the best one of the Mashima big three, but thats just an opinion, and a very subjective one.
Looking at it objectively, its arguable weather Rave is better than FT or EZ, and there are stuff that FT and EZ do much better than Rave. Its all up to good discussions among people to come up with a good objective rating and opinion.

Good and bad are always subjective no matter the topic. the only objective analysis can be how many copies it sold. Cold facts that are unagrguable b y anyone. What you referred to as facts can more likely be called norms or standards, and even that changes specifically in regards to art.
About Natsu remaining how he was at the beginning of fairy tail, yes I agree but I would listen to an analysis in youtube called "flat character arc", it's also valid to Goku which instead of evolving himself he inspires change in other characters with his actions while staying consistant as a character.
I also like Rave master the most at the moment and fairly enjoy the difference in writing in EZ compared to FT. I'm simply happy that Mashima explores his writing and not sticking to a certain method of plot construction and I truly believe that EZ can and will become something great.

 

[Summer]

Hi brandish

Gotta be honest, i was not expecting much with eden zero after the whole thing that happened to fairy tail. Im not planning to be a slave to another story from hiromashima.

but i guess ive been hooked for quite some time now. Well, im just giving it a shot by hoping that the same thing wont happen again in ez.

 

[Jean Grey]

Good and bad are always subjective no matter the topic. the only objective analysis can be how many copies it sold. Cold facts that are unagrguable b y anyone. What you referred to as facts can more likely be called norms or standards, and even that changes specifically in regards to art.
About Natsu remaining how he was at the beginning of fairy tail, yes I agree but I would listen to an analysis in youtube called "flat character arc", it's also valid to Goku which instead of evolving himself he inspires change in other characters with his actions while staying consistant as a character.
I also like Rave master the most at the moment and fairly enjoy the difference in writing in EZ compared to FT. I'm simply happy that Mashima explores his writing and not sticking to a certain method of plot construction and I truly believe that EZ can and will become something great.

Pretty much this.

I'll have to finish RM one day.

I dropped FT for almost 2 months now because its boring and lost its sense.

I'll probably come back after Aldoron arc to see if it's better.

No use being negative again.

I'm a changed man

 

[Dio-wilo13]

EZ's story is close to that of Rave, and that's a good thing