Canon Dressrosa Luffy v Pre-timeskip Kuma

[MBVC]

Does Luffy with his G4 stand a chance against the intelligent Kuma (now he's a robot) who has a very powerful df? Luffy might have enough power beating DD but Kuma's df is a different matter, let's assume that Luffy's G4 doesn't have a short time limit so that he could use it for several hours.

 

[kkck]

I'd still go with kuma to be honest. Luffy's gear 4 is an unstable power, it works for a short time and leaves luffy with no strength for a solid 10 minutes after using it. With that in mind luffy has a rather short amount of time to deal with kuma after which if kuma is left in anything even vaguely resembling a state where he can kinda move luffy will be killed without being able to resist. I mean, kuma could prick luffy's jugular and luffy would bleed out before the ten minutes are up. To add to that kuma's fruit can seemingly arbitrarily block/reflect stuff thrown at kuma. So the question is not whether kuma can or not block luffy's attacks but rather whether he has the speed to do so. Luffy can easily deal with a pacifista though it would be weird if kuma's own physical capacities were similar to those, kuma sounds like the sort that should be much higher than something even sanji can destroy in a single hit. Luffy's gear 4 perhaps puts luffy on the higher end of physical capacities in the manga however as long as it has such a heavy drawback it won't cut it to go up against the ones currently in charge in the new world. Even with gear 3 luffy could at least move around while in his chibi mode, with the side effects if gear 4 luffy is effectively as defenseless as a baby.

 

[HereNThere]

Luffy's speed advantage will be completely gone in this fight, so he will definitely have more problems than he did with Doffy in that respect. We don't know whether or not Kuma's body was as hard as the Prototype Pacifista, but I'm hesitant to say he is weaker, especially considering he was powerful pirate before the surgery. He might not be super phased by Gear 4, at least, not as much as Doffy was.

I'm also curious as to whether or not Gear 4 can break through Kuma's reflection ability. I assume the Haki would allow it to so though. That'll most likely be Luffy's big advantage in this fight. A point blank Ursa Shock could probably due some damage to Luffy though.

I'll give it to Luffy right now. Kuma's lack of Haki feats puts him at an disadvantage.

 

[kkck]

I don't think haki would allow luffy to bypass kuma's reflection ability. Haki is not specifically a counter for DF abilities in general. It works in some specific cases when it allows contact with the opponents body but other than that it has now shown anything else that would allow luffy to break an ability which seems to work arbitrarily. The best case scenario would be that there is a limit to how much kuma can reflect or that reflecting in itself requires effort on kuma's part and that gear 4 manages to overcome either of those hypothetical limits. However the manga has not presented such an scenario so far. It ultimately comes down to luffy's speed, as it being enough to hit kuma and whether the time he has in gear 4 is enough to do the trick. On the other hand if kuma realizes the extent of gear 4th's side effect on luffy then perhaps we can make the case that his teleporting around would easily buy him time until gear 4 runs out.

 

[MBVC]

It's very likely that Kuma knows how to use haki. I speculate that Kuma used to be on the top of the food chain inside revolutionary army besides Dragon and Okama king/queen Ivankov.

I think Oda delayed the introduction of haki because Luffy could have been killed by Croc, Moria or Buggy (only CoO) and Shanks would never have lost his left arm to that weak sea monster.

 

[Holt]

I think Luffy's haki would allow him to contend with the reflection ability to an extent. It's a pretty unclear situation. The battle can clearly go either way. I think Luffy in G4 does have the power to defeat Kuma if he gets his hits in. Getting to hit Kuma wouldn't be easy though. For Kuma, it's a matter of lasting till G4 runs out and he seems to have the means and durability to keep himself around till Luffy goes out. Of course he wouldn't know about Luffy's G4 timelimit. I'd normally go for Luffy but I think Kuma edges this out by simply outlasting Luffy. When Luffy becomes a bit more comfortable with G4, he'd be able to win imo.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Actually i think Luffy will destroy Kuma quite easily at this point. He has a very big speedadvantage currently and Kumas Repel only works when he can react and that i just dont see. We never saw Kuma go full out but he doenst seem like the speedguy to me. And his body shouldnt be a problem anymore after the monstertrio crashed a pacifista with only one attack. So currently Luffys G4 is a overkill against Kuma. Without it, it can become an interesting fight.

 

[MBVC]

He has a very big speedadvantage currently and Kumas Repel only works when he can react and that i just dont see. We never saw Kuma go full out but he doenst seem like the speedguy to me.

Kuma was never slow and he probably had known using haki before Luffy became pirate.