Discussion Elizabeth

[kkck]

Ever since Lizz was introduced something very obvious came to light, she looks exactly the same as Elizabeth, the adopted third princess who originated from danafor. Liz was not from danafor but she eventually joined their holy knight order and became meliodaz' lover.

Elizabeth being exactly like her and being from danafor is obviously too much of a coincidence. More so, elizabeth has shown actual romantic feelings for meliodas. Another "coincidence" would be that the two just happened to randomly fall into where meliodas was. Assuming there is a relationship between them it would seem like fate itself actually works into bringing them together.

Another interesting point is that Elizabeth is also part of the keys to release the demons. That is in itself a strange development considering the demons were sealed thousands of years ago. Which means liz either was at the sealing back then or became the key at some point or is descended from the key. Or perhaps she simply is the guardian of the key at least unknowingly. She has that earring which IMO has always been suspicious....

Another interesting point is that Elizabeth seems to have memory issues for some reason. She had met the sins before but she seems to have no recollection of them at all (although she was very young back then). The sins seem to have some issues remembering elizabeth as a young princess to which is kinda weird too. Also, just when gowther mentioned elizabeth already met them meliodas conveniently appeared to change the topic a bit.

Seeing everything my first thought would be that Elizabeth and lizz are in fact the same person. The issue here is how liz ended up as a young girl when she was originally a holy knight. At times the manga has shown elizabeth has the power to actually heal people (meliodaz and the doctor for example), perhaps that has something to do with her being young? Or perhaps she actually is somehow reborn into each age and meliodas is always right there ready to protect her. So she was made into the key or protector of the key or something and meliodas, bound to her by fate or a spell or something, appears during every life of her ready to protect her. Well, it would seem there is some inconsistency that would make this idea plausible right now (danafor would have had to be destroyed a year after liz' death for elizabeth's age to make sense).

Then there is also the thought of just how elizabeth got to liones.... Danafor was destroyed by melidoas in his wrath but if that happened then how did elizabeth ended up in liones? The only person that could have taken her there would be meliodas. Which leaves the question, why did the king accept her and him into the order? Meliodas is a walking god of destruction, his actual true power easily exceeds anyone we have seen if he can actually turn an entire nation into a crater.

So what is the deal? Are they the same person? Are they two different but related people?

 

[Nico Brown]

Elizabeth is most likely a descendant of the Goddess Clan. Liz was the incarnation before her and when one dies another must be reborn to take her place which is currently Elizabeth. Idk about how old Meliodas truly is or if he is the protector for each of these reincarnations. Maybe he was given the power of the demon to learn to control and help make sure they don't get released from their seal?

 

[Samui]

You know, Diane's line is even more mysterious now in light of the recent chapter.

She remembered some old man who gave her soup while she was ill years before as if it happened only recently, but can't remember Lioness' King's young daughter from 10 years ago?

Then again, the Sins' history as a group is really sparse. They didn't even know Gowther's real appearance, they don't each other's pasts, etc. Ban kinda remembers Elizabeth and so do Meliodas and Gowther. They don't really have to even know the King's daughter, actually.

 

[kkck]

Well, seeing the sins in general it does not seem like they were really friend with each other before they were set up. As you said, they know little of each other and keep a lot from them. They all were friends with meliodas in particular however they did not seem to be particularly close to each other. I guess that for most of them the sins were simply coworkers at best. To some degree it would make sense IMO. The sins existed as an organization for some years at best. Just look at diane and king... their very perception of time is different from humans, for them their tenure as members of the seven deadly sins must have been unbelievably short at best, a blink in their incredibly long lives in spite of still being apparently young by their standards. Would king and diane remember something that was such an insignificant instant in their lives?

 

[OtakuFreak]

Feel free to use this thread to discuss about Goddess Elizabeth being stronger than the Archangels or not.

 

[sobreno]

Feel free to use this thread to discuss about Goddess Elizabeth being stronger than the Archangels or not.

How she is stronger when she never fought a single time someone on one vs one? All she did in this manga is healing and purifying people around lol.

She horribly lacks feat to even put the Archangels down because it isn't with purification that she will win in a fight against them ( they are all Goddesses here ). Not to mention how physically weak she is compared to them.

 

[OtakuFreak]

How she is stronger when she never fought a single time someone on one vs one? All she did in this manga is healing and purifying people around lol.

She horribly lacks feat to even put the Archangels down because it isn't with purification that she will win in a fight against them ( they are all Goddesses here ). Not to mention how physically weak she is compared to them.

The bottom line is; she pushed back Indura in a 1v2 scenario and made them desperate against her; and it was only towards the end of the engagement where the Indura strengthened themselves that Goddess Elizabeth needed help. Regardless; that's a significantly better feat than anything Ludoshel has done in the manga; especially when he couldn't do anything against a single Indura; nevetheless two of them.

It literally don't matter if she used offensive magic instead of purification; if the ability lacks the fundamental raw power behind it then it won't be effective against an opponent. Ludoshel lacked the power but Elizabeth didn't - it's that simple.

You haven't provided me with a valid argument that doesn't nit-pick Elizabeth's characteristics. She has feats which surpass anything the Archangels have ever done; hence why she's stronger.

 

[sobreno]

The bottom line is; she pushed back Indura in a 1v2 scenario and made them desperate against her; and it was only towards the end of the engagement where the Indura strengthened themselves that Goddess Elizabeth needed help. Regardless; that's a significantly better feat than anything Ludoshel has done in the manga; especially when he couldn't do anything against a single Indura; nevetheless two of them.

It literally don't matter if she used offensive magic instead of purification; if the ability lacks the fundamental raw power behind it then it won't be effective against an opponent. Ludoshel lacked the power but Elizabeth didn't - it's that simple.

You haven't provided me with a valid argument that doesn't nit-pick Elizabeth's characteristics. She has feats which surpass anything the Archangels have ever done; hence why she's stronger.

Once again you failed to see what I was talking about. I said:
Show me battle feat from Elizabeth? You showed nothing.
She can't use that move on Ludoshel since it will have zero effect on him, purification doesn't work on a Goddess ( Archangel ) that doesn't need to be purified.
He is faster than her and can easily blitz or dodge her, the Indura stand there doing nothing lmao.

Ludoshel was about to get serious, any idiot can see that in his last line against the Indura, which means that he was still not going all out unlike her. Due to his arrogance, it doesn't surprise me lol.
All in all, you are just fanboying over her when she only has purification feat, useless against a specific opponent such as the Archangels for example, or people that don't need to be purified.

 

[Arjuna]

I personally believe Elizabeth has more magic power than Ludoshel.She is the prrincess of Goddess Clan after all.But her physical abilities are not good.While on the other hand Ludo received only minor injuries and able to continue fighting after taking multiple hits from Derieri (who destroyed an entire forest with a single swing of her tail) in her Indura form.

 

[sobreno]

I personally believe Elizabeth has more magic power than Ludoshel.She is the prrincess of Goddess Clan after all.But her physical abilities are not good.While on the other hand Ludo received only minor injuries and able to continue fighting after taking multiple hits from Derieri (who destroyed an entire forest with a single swing of her tail) in her Indura form.

And that proves what? Estarossa is a prince too but his magic power is a joke compared to Chandler, for example, his physical strength on the other hand...

 

[Arjuna]

And that proves what? Estarossa is a prince too but his magic power is a joke compared to Chandler, for example, his physical strength on the other hand...

And how can you be sure Chandler has more magic power than Estarossa?Mind it Cussack already said Estarossa's magic power's limit is unknown.

But anyway that's a different topic.

Elizabeth was able to purge 2 Indura's with her magic power.Even in her human state she was able to injure Derieri.And she was ready to fight all Commamdments.Though she would have lost no doubt still i believe she has enough magic power to think she can fight them all.Her mother is SD after all.She is bound to inherit some of her her magic power and have huge potential.That shows it enough.

 

[sobreno]

And how can you be sure Chandler has more magic power than Estarossa?Mind it Cussack already said Estarossa's magic power's limit is unknown.

But anyway that's a different topic.

Elizabeth was able to purge 2 Indira's.That shows it enough

Nope, Cusack was talking about his strength, not the magic power ( obviously Zeldoris dominate Estarossa in that department ) which is true, his strength is 53k which is higher than Zeldoris, making Estarossa, the strongest in physical department in the 10C ( excluding Meliodas of course ).

She used the right tool at the right moment ( that is called hax ), Ludoshel wanted to kill them, nuance. Not to mention that she go help, as soon as the Archangels used their purifying abilities too, they won instantly by combining their powers.
Again, nothing is said about any of the children of those Gods inheriting the power of the parents.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Once again you failed to see what I was talking about. I said:
Show me battle feat from Elizabeth? You showed nothing.
She can't use that move on Ludoshel since it will have zero effect on him, purification doesn't work on a Goddess ( Archangel ) that doesn't need to be purified.
He is faster than her and can easily blitz or dodge her, the Indura stand there doing nothing lmao.

Ludoshel was about to get serious, any idiot can see that in his last line against the Indura, which means that he was still not going all out unlike her. Due to his arrogance, it doesn't surprise me lol.
All in all, you are just fanboying over her when she only has purification feat, useless against a specific opponent such as the Archangels for example, or people that don't need to be purified.

The Indura battle clearly showed she has superior magical power than Ludoshel. You also forget she's a Goddess and can use offensive abilites that the archangels demonstrated ; she just doesn't choose to because of her personality. Sorry but that whole Ludoshel not fighting serious doesn't have any merit here; that could literally mean anything. Bring me a feat that surpasses Elizabeth standing her ground against Indura.

Only thing Ludoshel has over Elizabeth is physical ability but it's not significant enough. Elizabeth's clearly displayed levels of durability which aren't to be scoffed at etc.

I personally believe Elizabeth has more magic power than Ludoshel.She is the prrincess of Goddess Clan after all.But her physical abilities are not good.While on the other hand Ludo received only minor injuries and able to continue fighting after taking multiple hits from Derieri (who destroyed an entire forest with a single swing of her tail) in her Indura form.

She has physical ability; it's just not as refined as the Archangels - but that doesn't mean it's substantially lower.

And how can you be sure Chandler has more magic power than Estarossa?Mind it Cussack already said Estarossa's magic power's limit is unknown.

But anyway that's a different topic.

Elizabeth was able to purge 2 Indura's with her magic power.Even in her human state she was able to injure Derieri.And she was ready to fight all Commamdments.Though she would have lost no doubt still i believe she has enough magic power to think she can fight them all.Her mother is SD after all.She is bound to inherit some of her her magic power and have huge potential.That shows it enough.

People just don't like the idea of Elizabeth being one of the strongest characters in the series sadly.

Nope, Cusack was talking about his strength, not the magic power ( obviously Zeldoris dominate Estarossa in that department ) which is true, his strength is 53k which is higher than Zeldoris, making Estarossa, the strongest in physical department in the 10C ( excluding Meliodas of course ).

She used the right tool at the right moment ( that is called hax ), Ludoshel wanted to kill them, nuance. Not to mention that she go help, as soon as the Archangels used their purifying abilities too, they won instantly by combining their powers.

Wow your argument has no validity to it it's almost astonishing. She used a ''hack''? Are you fucking serious? That's your argument as to why she's weaker than the Archangels?

Think I'm done with this tbh; the bottom line is she's stronger than the archangels and nothing you have said proves otherwise - please come back when Ludoshel does something that beats Elizabeth defeating Indura.

 

[sobreno]

The Indura battle clearly showed she has superior magical power than Ludoshel. You also forget she's a Goddess and can use offensive abilites that the archangels demonstrated ; she just doesn't choose to because of her personality. Sorry but that whole Ludoshel not fighting serious doesn't have any merit here; that could literally mean anything. Bring me a feat that surpasses Elizabeth standing her ground against Indura.

Only thing Ludoshel has over Elizabeth is physical ability but it's not significant enough. Elizabeth's clearly displayed levels of durability which aren't to be scoffed at etc.




She has physical ability; it's just not as refined as the Archangels - but that doesn't mean it's substantially lower.



People just don't like the idea of Elizabeth being one of the strongest characters in the series sadly.



Wow your argument has no validity to it it's almost astonishing. She used a ''hack''? Are you fucking serious? That's your argument as to why she's weaker than the Archangels?

Think I'm done with this tbh; the bottom line is she's stronger than the archangels and nothing you have said proves otherwise - please come back when Ludoshel does something that beats Elizabeth defeating Indura.

Nope, it showed nothing, zero statement or allusion about her so-called " superior " magic power.
No, until she shows it, she can't use, sure she has the " potential " to use it but she needs to get rid of her persona first, which will never happen.
Oh, she also needs to learn how to fight lol, like everyone else, what do you expect?

The fact that the other two Archangels purified those Indura easily is the proof, as I said when you use the right tool ( aka Hax ), they won.
Ludoshel will never even try to purify them, look at the reaction of the Archangels when she tried to purify, that those " creatures " don't deserve it.

Elizabeth never displayed any durability feat, what are talking about? Show me Elizabeth tanking a major attack on screen before saying BS.
Ludoshel's physical abilities, speed shit on her that it isn't funny, that is really something here. That is what you get when you compare a non-combatant to a veteran combatant. Common sense isn't your strong point due to your fanboyism over that " princess " lmao.

Yes, she used Hax, that is so obvious that you are the only one who can't see it when purification and healing count for " battle " or " strength " point? Get real dude, this is embarrassing.

Nope, zero statement about her being stronger than the Archangels, literally zero, even the 10C didn't see her as a threat, she was in front of them, why no one didn't get like: " her magic, she is on part or even stronger than the Archangels, that Goddess is dangerous. "

Literally nothing. This is really sad really, you forgot Elizabeth's purpose in this show, she isn't meant to be a battle powerhouse lmao.

 

[kkck]

Come on, clearly elizabeth has shown insane magic so far. Even as a human with sealed power her PL was at about 1.9k, as much as gil and howser had at the time. As a goddess elizabeth was able to suppress two induras on her own. Meanwhile even the archangels could not even put a dent on the induras. And sure, she did need help to finish removing the curse but even without the archangels help she still did more against the induras than the other 3 archangels. Add to that her more recent feat of removing melascula's miasma which she did even in her human form in which she still does not have full access to her power. If her magic was able to purify melascula then odds are her power easily exceeds melascula's 35k. And in her goddess form odds are her PL is at least in league with that of the archangels, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to hold back the induras even for a second. That said, that is still different from elizabeth being a fighter, she simply has massive magic power and the ability to use it.

 

[sobreno]

Come on, clearly elizabeth has shown insane magic so far. Even as a human with sealed power her PL was at about 1.9k, as much as gil and howser had at the time. As a goddess elizabeth was able to suppress two induras on her own. Meanwhile even the archangels could not even put a dent on the induras. And sure, she did need help to finish removing the curse but even without the archangels help she still did more against the induras than the other 3 archangels. Add to that her more recent feat of removing melascula's miasma which she did even in her human form in which she still does not have full access to her power. If her magic was able to purify melascula then odds are her power easily exceeds melascula's 35k. And in her goddess form odds are her PL is at least in league with that of the archangels, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to hold back the induras even for a second. That said, that is still different from elizabeth being a fighter, she simply has massive magic power and the ability to use it.

She has a massive magic power at the level of the Archangels? Sure, but that magic is battle oriented? No.

That is why literally no one gets impressed by her magic level in the manga, King was there in front of her, why not a single remark of her magical power? But he was fast at commenting on Meliodas's magic in that flasback, same for Ludoshel.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2018 ---

For example, like that

For example, a member of the 10 Commandment stated that Base Meliodas's magic power is a league above his own ( combined with all the fodders demons here ).

That is what I need for Goddess Elizabeth, and from an Archangel or a 10 Commandments, even King would be enough as he is a good magic sensor as a Fairy ( King of Fairies ).

But the reality, I got nothing, as expected from a princess that never had a master or a training in battle oriented fashion from her entire life. What could you expect? It is logic.

 

[kkck]

She has a massive magic power at the level of the Archangels? Sure, but that magic is battle oriented? No.

That is why literally no one gets impressed by her magic level in the manga, King was there in front of her, why not a single remark of her magical power? But he was fast at commenting on Meliodas's magic in that flasback, same for Ludoshel.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2018 ---

For example, like that

For example, a member of the 10 Commandment stated that Base Meliodas's magic power is a league above his own ( combined with all the fodders demons here ).

That is what I need for Goddess Elizabeth, and from an Archangel or a 10 Commandments, even King would be enough as he is a good magic sensor as a Fairy ( King of Fairies ).

But the reality, I got nothing, as expected from a princess that never had a master or a training in battle oriented fashion from her entire life. What could you expect? It is logic.

To be fair, we don't know how capable of battle goddess elizabeth was. Just because she avoids fighting doesn't mean she isn't capable of it. We did see her with a lightsaber when cofronted by the supreme goddess and demon king. And I really doubt past meliodas would take elizabeth to a battlefield if he didn't think she could handle herself. And regardless of that, the actual amount of power she has is as great or greater than the archangels we have seen.

Also, is your complain about her battle prowess or her pl? We have every bit of evidence needed to know elizabeth's PL is among the higher ones we have seen, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to do the indura thing or even the bit with melascula's miasma. The indura thing is an actual feat of power, that should be worth more than any amount of arbitrary sensing of magic.

Worth noting, elaine did comment on elizabeth having an unbelievable amount of magic.
https://mangahelpers.slack.com/archives/C0D5GR3K8/p1516485543000052

 

[sobreno]

To be fair, we don't know how capable of battle goddess elizabeth was. Just because she avoids fighting doesn't mean she isn't capable of it. We did see her with a lightsaber when cofronted by the supreme goddess and demon king. And I really doubt past meliodas would take elizabeth to a battlefield if he didn't think she could handle herself. And regardless of that, the actual amount of power she has is as great or greater than the archangels we have seen.

Also, is your complain about her battle prowess or her pl? We have every bit of evidence needed to know elizabeth's PL is among the higher ones we have seen, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to do the indura thing or even the bit with melascula's miasma. The indura thing is an actual feat of power, that should be worth more than any amount of arbitrary sensing of magic.

Worth noting, elaine did comment on elizabeth having an unbelievable amount of magic.
https://mangahelpers.slack.com/archives/C0D5GR3K8/p1516485543000052

Take her to the battlefield, he doesn't have a choice but to always be with her in order to protect her, leaving her alone when two Gods with overwhelming abilities want both of them dead is stupid.

She doesn't have any battle oriented capabilities since she isn't a fighter, what is so difficult to understand here? You want to change her entire character or persona? it is like to expect Orihime from Bleach to change her invincible barrier or heal capability into a weapon.

She was able to do the Indura thing, as well as the Mera' miasma because that is exactly her specialty, purification.
Doesn't purification need a high level of magic power? Nope since Merlin who has Infinity has 4K of magic power level, same magic power wanted by both Gods, why? Because it is hax when it is used in the right way. Hax ignores your power level.

As I said, I need that someone as powerful as a 10 Commandment or an Archangel comment on her magic power. I need the top tier's opinion. Even King since he has 40K of magic power.

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

Take her to the battlefield, he doesn't have a choice but to always be with her in order to protect her, leaving her alone when two Gods with overwhelming abilities want both of them dead is stupid.

She doesn't have any battle oriented capabilities since she isn't a fighter, what is so difficult to understand here? You want to change her entire character or persona? it is like to expect Orihime from Bleach to change her invincible barrier or heal capability into a weapon.

She was able to do the Indura thing, as well as the Mera' miasma because that is exactly her specialty, purification.
Doesn't purification need a high level of magic power? Nope since Merlin who has Infinity has 4K of magic power level, same magic power wanted by both Gods, why? Because it is hax when it is used in the right way. Hax ignores your power level.

As I said, I need that someone as powerful as a 10 Commandment or an Archangel comment on her magic power. I need the top tier's opinion. Even King since he has 40K of magic power.

No offensive capabilities? Didn't she use Ark 2 times?
Her character has changed by so much over the series.Just because she isn't to fighting,doesn't mean she wont if necessary.
Aren't support abilities usable in battle as well? Offensive would be a better term.
Purifying one of 10C and even dispelling their poison on Ban is a powerful ability to have.

 

[sobreno]

No offensive capabilities? Didn't she use Ark 2 times?
Her character has changed by so much over the series.Just because she isn't to fighting,doesn't mean she wont if necessary.
Aren't support abilities usable in battle as well? Offensive would be a better term.
Purifying one of 10C and even dispelling their poison on Ban is a powerful ability to have.

But her Ark is pathetic compared to the Archangel's ark. Her strong point is purification.
Nope, supportive isn't offensive, supportive is the better term.
Indeed, useful as a team but useless alone by herself against a strong fighter at the top tier.