High Tier Singles Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

[Kaoz]

Singles - High Tier
Final​

Name	Yamato Yuudai
Grade	High School 2nd Year
Birthday	August 8th
Height	182 cm
Weight	68 kg
Handedness	Right
Playstyle	Counter Puncher

VERSUS​

Name	Tachibana Kippei
Grade	Middle School 3rd Year
Birthday	August 15th
Height	179 cm
Weight	67 kg
Handedness	Right
Playstyle	All Rounder

Serve order: Yamato -> Tachibana


This round ends on Monday, August 26th, at 8 PM GMT.

Have fun discussing.

 

[-Ken-]

Yamato wins. He's even with Tezuka, who kick Chitose totally.

 

[ashore]

i dont agree that yamato was even with tezuka. tezuka was winning a one sided game vs yamato. yamato caught up and won one sided games only because of his illusion technique.

2 stats doesn't compare to tezuka's stats.

tezuka could have also won with his tezuka phantom, but he decided not to.

 

[-Ken-]

And he's using it and win points, so what? Niou/Atobe only win due to Syncho/Phantom, so what? A win is a win. If that tech put him on even level as Tezuka, Tachibana stand no real chance here.

 

[Phantron]

I don't think Yamato is as good as people claim but if he beat Shiraishi, who is clearly stronger than Tachibana (Tezuka said he's more dangerous than Chitose, who is at least considered same tier as Tachibana) then of course he should beat Tachibana too.

I was under the impression that GUYU is something that only works on Tezuka sort of like in the game against St. Rudolph one of the guy has the move that makes the ball shake and it only works on Kikumaru because he has superior vision. Though whatever caused him to un-retire and consequently claim a spot against the G10 should be more than enough to beat Tachibana, seeing he's the only real 3rd courter that made the list.

 

[Ninomiya]

I was under the impression that GUYU is something that only works on Tezuka sort of like in the game against St. Rudolph one of the guy has the move that makes the ball shake and it only works on Kikumaru because he has superior vision. Though whatever caused him to un-retire and consequently claim a spot against the G10 should be more than enough to beat Tachibana, seeing he's the only real 3rd courter that made the list.

WHY?
It was never stated anywhere that GUYU only works on Tezuka. Only the anime implied this.
It was just said that the ball is going the opposite to where Tezuka predicts its going. That was the only analysis we got.

Then Irie said, "Yamato is full of surprises, hiding such a technique". This means it can't be a move that only works on one guy who Yamato KNEW was leaving for Germany.
It must mean that the move can't be some joke that works against one guy.
What supports this is the good point you just made, Yamato is the only 3rd Court guy who got a place to play against the G10.

Not counting Irie the Pierrot who we simply just cannot account for.

 

[ashore]

And he's using it and win points, so what? Niou/Atobe only win due to Syncho/Phantom, so what? A win is a win. If that tech put him on even level as Tezuka, Tachibana stand no real chance here.

some people cant beat techs, does that mean if you can't return the tech than the opponent is better in basic skills?

I understand a win is a win, but that it doesn't mean the skill level is the same. if you are arguing that yamato is at the same skill level than tezuka, that seems wrong. even yamato admits he is trying his best against tezuka, while his team mate is making fun of him. ( this is when tezuka is winning one sidedly against yamato.)


Yamato is not even with tezuka. tezuka can win yamato with tezuka phantom, but he didnt choose to.
even means evenly matched in skill and that isn't the case.

---------- Post added at 05:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 AM ----------

WHY?
It was never stated anywhere that GUYU only works on Tezuka. Only the anime implied this.
It was just said that the ball is going the opposite to where Tezuka predicts its going. That was the only analysis we got.

Then Irie said, "Yamato is full of surprises, hiding such a technique". This means it can't be a move that only works on one guy who Yamato KNEW was leaving for Germany.
It must mean that the move can't be some joke that works against one guy.
What supports this is the good point you just made, Yamato is the only 3rd Court guy who got a place to play against the G10.

Not counting Irie the Pierrot who we simply just cannot account for.

Spoiler

taken from the spoiler page.

Predicting
the strength of one's shot
the course of one's shot
watching movements
watching breathing

can we all agree all good tennis players in the series do this? the (ABOVE)

if not, then yamato's guyu only works on tezuka because he subconsciously looks for most of these things and reacts accordingly. and when you aren't thinking consciously you automatically make predictions and execute based on your predictions.

---------- Post added at 05:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 AM ----------

I don't think Yamato is as good as people claim but if he beat Shiraishi, who is clearly stronger than Tachibana (Tezuka said he's more dangerous than Chitose, who is at least considered same tier as Tachibana) then of course he should beat Tachibana too.

I was under the impression that GUYU is something that only works on Tezuka sort of like in the game against St. Rudolph one of the guy has the move that makes the ball shake and it only works on Kikumaru because he has superior vision. Though whatever caused him to un-retire and consequently claim a spot against the G10 should be more than enough to beat Tachibana, seeing he's the only real 3rd courter that made the list.

some people also thought that since they watched the anime, including myself. and I can agree that in some cases the anime clears up what is not mentioned in the manga. a better explanation/description of a technique can be considered cannon imo is better explained in the anime if it was mistranslated or left out by konomi in the manga. ( and yes he has made mistakes before)

i agree that shiraishi > tachibana. but I cant say for sure if yamato > shiraishi. I mean due to public opinion people voted yamato better than shiraishi, so that makes this vote an almost no brainer in yamato's favor.

but i still wanted to continue the discussion on yamato's guyu shot here since the other thread is closed.

 

[-Ken-]

Yamato is not even with tezuka. tezuka can win yamato with tezuka phantom, but he didnt choose to.
even means evenly matched in skill and that isn't the case.

He does use Phantom to force both ball out. We knows that there's a limit to how much Tezuka can use Phantom due to his match in National. Yamato is even to Tezuka, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not. And really, due to Abara Dame limited stance required to pull it off, I doubt he can do that with Yume shot. Beast aura "might" do it. But I doubt it.

---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------

I understand a win is a win, but that it doesn't mean the skill level is the same. if you are arguing that yamato is at the same skill level than tezuka, that seems wrong. even yamato admits he is trying his best against tezuka, while his team mate is making fun of him. ( this is when tezuka is winning one sidedly against yamato.)

It's also when he doesn't use the Yume move yet.

And throughout the entire match, he did not reveal his shot that damaged his arm. If without that tech he can fight Tezuka to this extent, what chance do Tachibana really have here?

I don't consider and will never consider anime as anything close to cannon. Ever. Sanada score points against Yukimura without using Black Aura? Only in his dreams. At least before the mountain training.

 

[floman]

i agree that shiraishi > tachibana. but I cant say for sure if yamato > shiraishi. I mean due to public opinion people voted yamato better than shiraishi, so that makes this vote an almost no brainer in yamato's favor.
but i still wanted to continue the discussion on yamato's guyu shot here since the other thread is closed.

I don't know why Tachibana is necessarily worse than Shiraishi, it would be a close match for sure. Tachibana was more than even with Chitose till he revealed the second door of Muga.

The Wild Beast versus Tennis Bible would be a good match but I wouldn't say Shiraishi would definitely win. Tezuka said Shiraishi was the more fierce opponent, but he and Fuji were the only two people to defeat the second door thus far. I doubt even Shiraishi would defeat the second door in a match. Also against Chistose, Tachibana only aimed for his blind spot once so thereby only played in half the court but yet was able to keep even.

The WOK are really overestimated as a doubles team but as singles players they are truly great. I think the wild beast aura might be more power than Yamato can handle (given his stats).

Unlike Tezuka and Shiraishi, Tachibana's play is based on his power not as much on his thinking skills. I doubt Yamato can handle the Abare Dame.

Also GUYU requires a lot of time in order to fake one course and play another. We haven't seen how the shot would respond to power based shots. We have only seen it against the placement skilled Tezuka.

 

[ashore]

He does use Phantom to force both ball out. We knows that there's a limit to how much Tezuka can use Phantom due to his match in National. Yamato is even to Tezuka, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not. And really, due to Abara Dame limited stance required to pull it off, I doubt he can do that with Yume shot. Beast aura "might" do it. But I doubt it.

---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------



It's also when he doesn't use the Yume move yet.

And throughout the entire match, he did not reveal his shot that damaged his arm. If without that tech he can fight Tezuka to this extent, what chance do Tachibana really have here?

I don't consider and will never consider anime as anything close to cannon. Ever. Sanada score points against Yukimura without using Black Aura? Only in his dreams. At least before the mountain training.

Hi ken,I appreciate the discussion

can you or others comment on this post of mine:

taken from the spoiler page.

Predicting
the strength of one's shot
the course of one's shot
watching movements
watching breathing

can we all agree all good tennis players in the series do this? the (ABOVE)

if not, then yamato's guyu only works on tezuka because he subconsciously(imo) looks for most of these things and reacts accordingly. and when you aren't thinking consciously you automatically make predictions and execute based on your predictions.




If you agree that all good tennis players in shin pot have this innate ability then,GUYU should work on all the players.

If you dont agree then GUYU shouldnt work. In comparison, I dont think tachibana is at the same level of tezuka to do the skills above, and there fore GUYU would have little to no effect on him, would allow tachibana to win a 2 stated all around player, like yamato.

 

[-Ken-]

Yes, I think all good players predict the shot. If it's like Kintarou or closed eyes Fuji, then maybe Yume won't work. But in those case, it kind of hardly matter anyways.

I think everyone read that page. And their opinion that "this shot doesn't only work from Tezuka" comes from either

1. Not putting Anime as cannon (As unless the author admit they are, they never are. I might admit Reborn novel as cannon, for example)
2. Just not watching anime

 

[floman]

If you dont agree then GUYU shouldnt work. In comparison, I dont think tachibana is at the same level of tezuka to do the skills above, and there fore GUYU would have little to no effect on him, would allow tachibana to win a 2 stated all around player, like yamato.

I think that it works on Tezuka because he is so good at predicting. It would also work on Chitose and most likely Shiraishi. They have a set plan that they follow. Shiraishi plays perfect tennis so will thereby follow up one where he thinks the ball will be hit from a certain angle. Chitose's pinnacle of wisdom would be destroyed. Data tennis would most likely not work.

Tachibana like Kintaro's strength is in his power and his wild nature (hence the wild beast aura). The majority of his play is not based on prediction. Plus the Abare Dame is a pretty insane shot that I doubt Yamato would handle. We agreed Tachibana could handle the BJK because of his strength so I'm sure he can beat the GUYU because of his strength as well.

 

[ashore]

well I did the best I can, to show my point of view. Have to see how it plays out.

---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------

I think that it works on Tezuka because he is so good at predicting. It would also work on Chitose and most likely Shiraishi. They have a set plan that they follow. Shiraishi plays perfect tennis so will thereby follow up one where he thinks the ball will be hit from a certain angle. Chitose's pinnacle of wisdom would be destroyed. Data tennis would most likely not work.

Tachibana like Kintaro's strength is in his power and his wild nature (hence the wild beast aura). The majority of his play is not based on prediction. Plus the Abare Dame is a pretty insane shot that I doubt Yamato would handle. We agreed Tachibana could handle the BJK because of his strength so I'm sure he can beat the GUYU because of his strength as well.

I was just making a point that people who can do the following:

Predicting
the strength of one's shot
the course of one's shot
watching movements
watching breathing

aren't on the same level of predictability as tezuka is. and GUYU is more effective on tezuka because he does all those predictions at a higher level than most other players, not that others dont also do it too.

 

[floman]

I was just making a point that people who can do the following:

Predicting
the strength of one's shot
the course of one's shot
watching movements
watching breathing

aren't on the same level of predictability as tezuka is. and GUYU is more effective on tezuka because he does all those predictions at a higher level than most other players, not that others dont also do it too.

I think your completely right. It would work on Tezuka better than anyone but I think it would barely work on Tachibana. His play is based on the wild beast aura. It's much more random and less based on prediction. So I don't think it would be a winning strategy against Tachibana.

 

[Phantron]

Tezuka's level of prediction is far above even data tennis. There's a reason why he has Saiki, which is basically just perfect prediction. Just look at say, Tezuka Zone. The only way he can put enough spin to move the ball back to center is if he already knows which way it is going. Here I'm assuming Tezuka Zone is not some kind of 'attract ball to Tezuka' spin, because otherwise he should just stand outside the court and attract the ball there. Of course that does bring up the question of say a ball is hit to the left corner, if he could predict that why doesn't he just spin the ball to the left and force it out. Still, both Phantom and Zone only make sense if you already know where the ball is going, otherwise both moves will easily backfire you. If Tezuka doesn't have perfect prediction we should see Tezuka Zone/Phantom accidentally saving balls that would've been out. The Kaidoh versus Tezuka tiebreaker shows that he can use Tezuka Zone to save balls going out of bound and it's most certainly not because Tezuka used TZone on the wrong time and saved Kaidoh. He obviously already knows Kaidoh can't return that shot in the court which is why he put TZone on the ball.

Unlike the data tennis players, Tezuka never brags about how awesome he's at predicting, but the things he does is only possible if he already knows where everything is going. That is why GUYU is devastating on him because his prediction is just so accurate so he can't imagine them being wrong. Shiraishi is said to play perfect tennis, but from the way the manga describes it that just means he always hits the ball to the best spot and never do anything superflous. Sure all the players do some level of prediction but I can't think of anyone who comes to the 'never wrong' level as Tezuka Zone/Phantom requires.

 

[Ninomiya]

Tezuka's level of prediction is far above even data tennis. There's a reason why he has Saiki, which is basically just perfect prediction. Just look at say, Tezuka Zone.

Not quite. Tezuka's level of prediction when he isn't using Saiki, doesn't compare to when he actually is using Saiki.
I'm pretty sure there is a big and notable difference in his prediction levels when he isn't using it.

As for Tezuka Zone, due to the immense Sidespin, I don't think Tezuka is calculating what move his opponent will hit. Or rather, its very unlikely.
When Tezuka faced Sanada, he didn't know where the Rai was going to land at all because Rai has a random spin. He just put enough spin on it so that the Rai wouldn't land on the court.

I think your completely right. It would work on Tezuka better than anyone but I think it would barely work on Tachibana. His play is based on the wild beast aura. It's much more random and less based on prediction. So I don't think it would be a winning strategy against Tachibana.

I wouldn't say this is right.
Its never ever been said he is the best at predicting his opponents naturally or at his base self.
While I do agree with you that Tachibana has a slightly better chance than Shiraishi because his tennis is so random and violent, if Tachibana was conceding points to Kamikakushi, then he'll definitely concede to GUYU which is just an even better shot with a similar concept.

 

[Phantron]

As for Tezuka Zone, due to the immense Sidespin, I don't think Tezuka is calculating what move his opponent will hit. Or rather, its very unlikely.
When Tezuka faced Sanada, he didn't know where the Rai was going to land at all because Rai has a random spin. He just put enough spin on it so that the Rai wouldn't land on the court.

If Tezuka doesn't know where the ball is going, we should see Tezuka Zone being broken accidentally. You'd see a guy accidentally hit the ball out only to be saved by Tezuka Zone and the ball will definitely not land in the center of court like that, so hitting the ball out of bounds would counter Tezuka Zone (at least some of the time). Yet such a scene has never happened except when Tezuka is doing it on purpose against Kaidoh.

 

[Kaoz]

Tachibana didn't concede many points to Kamikakushi, 5 throughout the whole match if I recall (from the ones we got to see anyway). Adding to that, he didn't know about it the first time Chitose used it as a serve and the first time he used it as a normal shot. The very last point can be seen as him testing Chitose and not returning it on purpose. So really, Kamikakushi didn't trouble Tachibana that much (though it did apparently seal his power shots to an extent).

As for TZone and TPhantom, they are both super spins, there is no prediction involved. Zone halves the spin on the ball and as a result forces it to the center of the court. Phantom doubles the spin of the ball and forces it to go out. As for pulling in Kaidou's shots, he probably just increased the super spin and didn't half the spin on the ball but quarter it or something.
http://www.mangareader.net/422-27246-12/prince-of-tennis/chapter-349.html

 

[ashore]

If Tezuka doesn't know where the ball is going, we should see Tezuka Zone being broken accidentally. You'd see a guy accidentally hit the ball out only to be saved by Tezuka Zone and the ball will definitely not land in the center of court like that, so hitting the ball out of bounds would counter Tezuka Zone (at least some of the time). Yet such a scene has never happened except when Tezuka is doing it on purpose against Kaidoh.

that's just how the technique works, not all techs can be explained with logic, only by what the manga has stated. but you do have good theories.

 

[-Ken-]

Tachibana didn't concede many points to Kamikakushi, 5 throughout the whole match if I recall (from the ones we got to see anyway). Adding to that, he didn't know about it the first time Chitose used it as a serve and the first time he used it as a normal shot. The very last point can be seen as him testing Chitose and not returning it on purpose. So really, Kamikakushi didn't trouble Tachibana that much (though it did apparently seal his power shots to an extent).

I think this page suggest that there's a fair amount of points concede to Kamikakushi.

http://www.mangareader.net/422-27207-12/prince-of-tennis/chapter-310.html