First Round 12. (Emporio Ivankov vs Kong)

[scav]

okay kong = unknown abilities. So i'm voting for Ivankov, would be a joke if the background characters with unknown abilities and power go further in this tournament.

 

[Cyrs]

I don't see how it's even remotely logical that the Pan Fleet Admiral would lose to someone who couldn't beat Magellan or Akainu. Since we haven't yet seen Kong fight anyone he's not strong? Come on now... I know this tourney is basically a popularity contest, but this is going a little too far.

 

[Lazy]

I don't see how it's even remotely logical that the Pan Fleet Admiral would lose to someone who couldn't beat Magellan or Akainu. Since we haven't yet seen Kong fight anyone he's not strong?

I'm sorry but where was it said that he is weak (I only saw that i was not in his prime anymore, which is true). I only saw that since we don't know anything about him, some (myslef included) will try to make him loose for the sake of having fight we can debate on the outcome based on their fighting capabilities and not on speculation (like he's at the top, he HAS to be ubber mega strong ) / past achievement / standing / popularity.

And once again, Iva loosing to Magellan doesn't prove anything regarding his fight with Kong, one piece fight are somewhat like a rock paper scissors fights (Mr3 vs Magelan / Luffy vs Enel).

Come on now... I know this tourney is basically a popularity contest, but this is going a little too far.

That has absolutely nothing to do with a popularity contest , on the contrary, we're trying to prevent it because if we continue to let people win based on speculation / past achievement / standing / popularity, this will get boring soon, and we'll keep on having match up with people we know nothing about (like Kong / Roger / BB Crew / etc)

In the end, your logic regarding the outcome is based on a speculation regarding Kong, and since it's a speculation, we can all speculate differently, based on how much appeal Kong gave us, hence this is a popularity vote k

 

[Cyrs]

^ I can understand why you'd want to make the contest only involve characters who we don't have to speculate about. But unfortunately, many of the strongest characters are like that: Roger, Dragon, Kong, Kaidou, etc. They are people we have not actually seen in a fight. But based off the power rankings established in the manga, we just have to go off of that for now. And if you want to talk about feats, I'd say becoming Admiral, then Fleet Admiral, then Pan Fleet Admiral is pretty damn high up there.

So that's different than pure speculation. For example, with Kong, we are told he's the Pan Fleet Admiral. That's two levels above Admiral. In the war, Iva was not a match for an Admiral. So logic dictates Iva loses against Kong. It's a really, really big stretch to imagine that maybe for some random chance, Kong has an exact weakness against hormones. Even if he did, that wouldn't guarantee his loss. Mr. 3 could not even come close to winning against Magellan, even though Magellan was weak against Mr. 3's wax ability.

I'm not trying to attack you or anything, just trying to point out that if we vote out someone like Kong just because we haven't seen his powers, then in fairness we'd have to vote out Roger and Dragon, too.

 

[Lazy]

No problem Cyrs, It's a debate so no personal attack

I agree with you regarding his position, it's not small feat to be at the very top of the marine. But, is he really ? I was more under the impression that his current job is like an honorific one with lots of paperwork, behind the scene (and in front of a desk) than on the battlefield and with little decisional power (he wasn't the one to choose the new fleet admiral -not completely sure there)
He wasn't even at the War of the summit, maybe because he's just an old timer and couldn't be of any help when the marine needed is fighting power or maybe not . For all we know, he could be like in countless of organization, the old leader that prove himslef in the past, but that can't just be like he was in his prime (wich was loooooooong ago , longer than when Roger was rocking the world)

Now I agree with you, Mr3 didn't seems capable of taking out Magellan (and yet, maybe had he put some heart in it, he could have find ways to nullify his Ability in a real fight)

Still, based on my previous post, I admit i'd like to elimiate Roger and Dragon too

 

[Sir Amigo]

Kong is a zoan ability user, he can transform into Donkey Kong.. No chance for Iva!

Nevertheless, Iva has the big advantage on his side, that he wears straps... No, I mean that we know him way better than Kong. If Kong is so powerful, like some people suggest, where was he, when WB attacked Marineford?

 

[Cyrs]

^ I really don't have a problem with you wanting to eliminate Roger and Dragon, but I highly doubt many others feel that way. More likely is that people will vote out Kong, but keep Roger and Dragon because they are more popular characters.

About Kong again though - the guy looks like a tank! And he was Fleet Admiral during Roger and Whitebeard's era. And Whitebeard was still ridiculously strong even when he was way past his prime and on the verge of death. Why would the Pan Fleet Admiral be much different? He doesn't even look like he's really old, nor does he look unhealthy at all. My point is, I don't see any reasonable, logical way for him to lose, besides just saying, "I want Iva to win."

---

But I do agree with your sentiment about which characters were included. I would've liked it a bit better if the ultra-high-tier characters were left out of the voting, so we can concentrate more on the non-legendary characters we've actually seen. Then we could do a separate vote for the ones like Whitebeard, Roger, Dragon, Shanks, etc.

Oh well, it's still fun though.

---------- Post added at 12:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

Kong is a zoan ability user, he can transform into Donkey Kong.. No chance for Iva!

Nevertheless, Iva has the big advantage on his side, that he wears straps... No, I mean that we know him way better than Kong. If Kong is so powerful, like some people suggest, where was he, when WB attacked Marineford?

The manga itself suggests Kong is that powerful because he became an Admiral, then moved up to Fleet Admiral, and then moved up to Pan Fleet Admiral. As to why he wasn't there? I would imagine they didn't expect to lose (and they didn't). Sengoku was supposed to handle it.

 

[Lazy]

^ I really don't have a problem with you wanting to eliminate Roger and Dragon, but I highly doubt many others feel that way. More likely is that people will vote out Kong, but keep Roger and Dragon because they are more popular characters.

About Kong again though - the guy looks like a tank! And he was Fleet Admiral during Roger and Whitebeard's era. And Whitebeard was still ridiculously strong even when he was way past his prime and on the verge of death. Why would the Pan Fleet Admiral be much different? He doesn't even look like he's really old, nor does he look unhealthy at all. My point is, I don't see any reasonable, logical way for him to lose, besides just saying, "I want Iva to win."

---

But I do agree with your sentiment about which characters were included. I would've liked it a bit better if the ultra-high-tier characters were left out of the voting, so we can concentrate more on the non-legendary characters we've actually seen. Then we could do a separate vote for the ones like Whitebeard, Roger, Dragon, Shanks, etc.

Oh well, it's still fun though.

Haha true enought, hence my propaganda to make them loose (still, i feel it's a lost cause )

Yep, I would have loved to put the legendary guys in a separate part of the tournament, but It's still funny like that !

 

[Sir Amigo]

So now again, when he doesnt look that old and healthy for his age, why didnt he show up at marineford? In such important fights, its logical to send out my best men to the frontlines of a war.
You might be right that he is extremely powerful, but he missed his chance to show it to us.
Iva was there and had some nice fights..and that shows that he earned his place as a commander of the revolutionairies, unlike Kong.

 

[Cyrs]

So now again, when he doesnt look that old and healthy for his age, why didnt he show up at marineford? In such important fights, its logical to send out my best men to the frontlines of a war.
You might be right that he is extremely powerful, but he missed his chance to show it to us.
Iva was there and had some nice fights..and that shows that he earned his place as a commander of the revolutionairies, unlike Kong.

Kong earned his position as the top leader of all the Marines, Admirals included. Iva could not even beat one Admiral.

 

[Sir Amigo]

Kong earned his position as the top leader of all the Marines, Admirals included. Iva could not even beat one Admiral.

You don't get it, right? The point is, that we didn't see him fight. Only to say he is strong because of his title is nonsense. Of course he might be a skilled fighter, but he achieved his rank through his age and experience. Its logical that a young (compared to him) marine admiral cant be the top leader. But it is not smart to compare him with the admirals, which would own him, I am sure of it.
Rank =/= strength

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

It's obvious that in One Piece in order to achieve higher rank you have to be stronger than those who are below you. It was the same with deciding the current Fleet Admiral. Thus Akainu seems to be the strongest currently in Marines. Maybe aside Kizaru (as it seems he wasn't interested in Fleet Admiral position) and Kong.

In One Piece you can't achieve rank because of you age and experience. You must be actually strong enough to cope with your responsibilities there.
And about Kong being old... well Whitebeard was old as well... Same with Sengoku and Garp, but they still showed that they are at least at the level of current Admirals (Wb even higher).