Gutts and Ceska's Child..

[Aldrich]

Yeah I didn't think I had to put huge red arrows to Zodd's silhouette, my bad, so as apparently I have to spell it out, you see the cloud in the middle of the picture? You see the silhouette over this cloud? This is where you're supposed to look.

Also I love how you completely dicredit this theory without adressing any of the points I made to support it, your little condescending tone or how you don't say what you think the child could be and why you think so. That makes for a great conversation, good job.

edit There you go, done with Paint:

Those are oddly shaped rocks, don't you think?

 

[xi0]

Guys, we don't need to get nasty with each other. Kaizeru didn't need to bash the administrator you speak of Aldrich, but he does bring up a point. I'm the type who thinks "seeing is believing", and I'll have to investigate further about it on my own I guess.

 

[KaiserRyuujin]

Yeah I didn't think I had to put huge red arrows to Zodd's silhouette, my bad, so as apparently I have to spell it out, you see the cloud in the middle of the picture? You see the silhouette over this cloud? This is where you're supposed to look.

edit There you go, done with Paint:

Those are oddly shaped rocks, don't you think?

Im still not seeing anything that could resemble Zodd. I see what could be a wild dog up in the hillside. In what you highlighted is where I could see the snake towards the end of it. More physical proof would even be needed in my book for there to be true relation. If its anything at all, its just a scene transition from the beach to the little cottage out there.

Also I love how you completely dicredit this theory without adressing any of the points I made to support it, your little condescending tone or how you don't say what you think the child could be and why you think so. That makes for a great conversation, good job.

I just don't understand how a person simply being an "Admin" for an internet forum gives them any kind of credibility, and I bring it to question how and why? Is he an insider for Miura, some how getting information about plot and story that we aren't? Some how nabbed Miura's note book (I don't know if he has one, just saying) and giving little detail out? I just beg to wonder about it, sorry.

Okay, want me to say something more. Skull Knight was right down there on the beach. So, where was the little scuffle between Zodd and Skull KnightIf not later too, Zodd knows Skull Knight was near and he goes for that chance to fight his Rival. Zodd never lets go the chance to fight Skull Knight, never ever from what we have seen any time the two are close Zodd challenges.

Also going to what you brought up, and Skull Knights quote, "What you wish for may not be what she wishes for." Thats a single statement on Casca's past and present self and whats gone on. Gutts wishes for that strong warrior side to Casca who he could trust his back with. However, at this point, with the restoration of Casca's mind sanity, she may not wish to be that powerful person she once was. Look where fallowing one man got her, to do battle. To be betrayed most of all and raped and made for a sacrifice for his power. She may wish for a quiet life.

The child I see as its own entity in the world. Nothing more then that, because as we even see it, the child is leaving that place by itself and with no other assistance. Zodd had anything to do, he would of been there. Miura does not shy from showing that beast, and Zodd would love to cross swords at chance with Gutts too. Really thats it there is Zodd is to thirsty to fight people like Skull Knight and Gutts, he never passes up the chance, and nothing ever stops him from even having a small duel.

Ugh...I normally hate adding to speculations and theorys =.=

Guys, we don't need to get nasty with each other. Kaizeru didn't need to bash the administrator you speak of Aldrich, but he does bring up a point. I'm the type who thinks "seeing is believing", and I'll have to investigate further about it on my own I guess.

Im not bashing, just bringing to question about it. I just dont see why belief just simply because he's an admin. Im sorry, but thats just all there is to it.

 

[xi0]

No, Kaizeru the manner in which you said it wasn't necessary. Bashing or not.

Also, it's obvious that Zodd would pass up the chance to fight SkullKnight or Guts if it was something Griffith wished. Zodd is essentially Griffith's henchman now.

 

[Aldrich]

I just don't understand how a person simply being an "Admin" for an internet forum gives them any kind of credibility, and I bring it to question how and why? Is he an insider for Miura, some how getting information about plot and story that we aren't? Some how nabbed Miura's note book (I don't know if he has one, just saying) and giving little detail out? I just beg to wonder about it, sorry.

He's the admin of the biggest and most comprehensive Berserk fansite out there, meaning that he probably has a greater knowledge of the manga than most. What's so hard to get? Also as I already said it seems like a pretty fucking stupid thing to lie about, given how it's not a pivotal point to his theory, he already had far better, more concrete points to back it up, also the fans visiting his forum are bound to check if he was telling the truth or not and would probably have exposed him already if he was bullshitting. That didn't happen.

Also your point about Zodd fighting Skull Knight doesn't contradict the theory at all. We've seen Zodd was basically Griffith's dog, if the child is indeed Griffith it's perfectly logical he'd have ordered Zodd to stay still when Skully was talking to Guts cause he didn't want his parents to get caught in a fight between these two monsters and possibly get hurt.

 

[baboysai]

Owkay... can I interrupt you guys? Coz um, Gutts and Caska's child<-- is the topic. Not whether that red outlined thing there is Zodd or not.

 

[Absolutio]

Owkay... can I interrupt you guys? Coz um, Gutts and Caska's

See the wing and the distinctively shaped horn?

I do see it, but if you look at "Zodd's" proportions, you can see that the distance between the horn and wings is way too far, his shoulder would be more like a camel's hump than anything else. Though I do admit that it's simmiliar to Zodd, and maybe even be him. But I think it's just unlikely and maybe just a teaser by Miura for curious fan guys.

About Skullknight remark of Ceska. I always thought that it means that maybe Ceska won't want to stay by Gutt's side (as he wants her too) and will want to go back to Griffith, since you can see when Gutt's fight Zodd at the swords hill, how Ceska calls out for Griffith. But I guess it just might be so because her child is "in" Griffith or something (which again makes all of this Beach Child case really confusing).

Also,

Owkay... can I interrupt you guys? Coz um, Gutts and Caska's child<-- is the topic. Not whether that red outlined thing there is Zodd or not.

If it is Zodd, it is an important lead for the child's case and solution O_o
So it is relevant to the topic.. :P

 

[xi0]

We got a little sidetracked there, but whether or not that is indeed Zodd is completely relevant to the topic.

Kai and Aldrich, take it to PMs if you still want to argue whether SK's administrator is credible or not. Personally, I don't see a reason to lie about a detail like that, but my point is that I hadn't heard it before so I was skeptical about where/who Aldrich's source was.

 

[Aldrich]

Yeah, sorry for the offtopicness.

About Skullknight remark of Ceska. I always thought that it means that maybe Ceska won't want to stay by Gutt's side (as he wants her too) and will want to go back to Griffith, since you can see when Gutt's fight Zodd at the swords hill, how Ceska calls out for Griffith. But I guess it just might be so because her child is "in" Griffith or something (which again makes all of this Beach Child case really confusing).

I highly doubt Casca would want to go back to Griffith if her memories came back, he's the one responsible for the death of her companions, the one who raped her, broke her mind and cursed her child. As you said she seemed to be somehow attracted to Griffith on the Hills of Swords probably because she recognized her son in him, but you can also see she's confused as she falls on her knees crying afterwards.

As for Skull Knight words, if it's not about Casca's child being a part of Griffith and how Casca would oppose Guts if he wanted to kill him, I guess it meant maybe Casca doesn't want to be sane again and live with the horror of the Eclipse everyday in her mind. Maybe she's happier in that unconscious state, and while Guts wants her old self back perhaps it's selfish from him and not the best thing for Casca.

 

[White Rabbit]

Sorry, but I can't see any resemblance to zodds silhouette in that picture at all.

and the mods at skullknight like to spread a little disinformation once in a while.
just go and search the "Supreme King Aolsier"-thread and you'll know what i mean.



topic:

I believe that the baby was neccessary to bring griffith into this world... it's appearance at albion is just a "coincidence" like griffiths behelith returning to him in the "right" moment.
since we know that there exists a huge entity that affects causality, coincidences in the berserk-universe are always a little fishy to me.

 

[Kibagami]

I see no point of arguing "YES Zodd is there" or "NO he isn't." We'll just have to wait and see....

Personally, I can sort of see the horn and wing suggested by Aldrich, and previous frames with Gutts sensing something could be explained by Zodd's shadow cameo. If the horn & wing are put there on purpose it's meant to VERY obscure, and I doubt Miura would explicitly explain what Guts sensed in that very moment. However, if IT IS Zodd, and he WAS bringing baby Guts(ka) to see his parents, then we have some even bigger questions -->
Is he also controlled by Griffith?
Is G part of him (Does G also exist within him)?
Is he a separate entity from G all together?

Hmmm... in proposing these questions, I may have come up with another theory....

So let's say the kid IS Gutska (I hate this name but it saves me time).... We saw the baby spirit being eaten by the Egg dude, and we saw him evolve into Griffith's new body. In other words, we KNOW for sure that Griffith used Gutska's would-be body and made it his own. We also saw how Gutska caused some stirring feelings with Griffith during the fight on the hill of swords, but Griffith claims that he has let go of his feelings for Guts/Caska/theGoldenDays. So it can be inferred that Gutska was solely responsible for those stirring feelings (perhaps of hesitation? fear?).

Considering this evidence, I was wondering if Gutska could be a hinderance to Griffith's plans, since he can't afford a single shread of hesitation in the excution of his ambition. Keep in mind that G is a vastly powerful being. He is almost never wrong about things about which he is sure, and apparently he was sure that he could remain cold towards the possibility of Zodd killing Guts, yet he could feel the physical effects of Gutska's thoughts. Perhaps Griffith recognized the potential for Gutska to develop into a larger hinderance, and tried to purge Gutska's existence from his own. I don't know if anyone here has read/seen Inuyasha, but I was thinking along the lines of how Naraku purges parts of himself to create lesser demons. In the same way, perhaps Griffith realizes that his new found existence includes the existence of Gutska, and his tangible body is not 100% his. Thus, he has separated Gutska's existence from his body by purging the existence of Gutska (a pure form of Gutska) from himself, and creating a pseudo off-spring viz. the kid on the beach.

There are some problems with this theory.
1) If Griffith was so powerful, why doesn't he just eliminate Gutska all together?
2) Why would Gutska have a physical body?
3) If this is so, and supposing that Zodd really was at that beach, why would Zodd help the kid?
4) Considering the evidence that I proposed in the 2nd page, why would Gutska have such a saintly spiritual form (the elemental-like spirit form)?

I hope I'm not running a muck here. That was very long, but do you guys understand the gist of my theory? Comments please...

 

[xi0]

and the mods at skullknight like to spread a little disinformation once in a while.
just go and search the "Supreme King Aolsier"-thread and you'll know what i mean.

Huh?! Everyone knows that Aolsier's image wasn't doctored!

---

-
Hey, I think it's very plausible that this "Gutska" is some sort of amalgamation of the child's soul and Griffith's body that was expelled by Griffith when he was reincarnated. Now if this theory was fact it would probably destroy the idea that Zodd was on that hill. It also creates even more questions though lol

 

[Absolutio]

I see no point of arguing "YES Zodd is there" or "NO he isn't."
4) Considering the evidence that I proposed in the 2nd page, why would Gutska have such a saintly spiritual form (the elemental-like spirit form)?

Gutt's and Ceska's kid is originally for the realm of the dead => the elemental world. So he has a "being" in there. He exists in both the real world, and the other one. So that might be a theory that could explain it.

 

[xi0]

The fetus that Caska gave birth to may be from the realm of the dead, but that doesn't mean the child on that Caska meets on the beach is from there.

 

[Kibagami]

The screwed up thing is that the 'festival' gave a physical body to BOTH the baby and Griffith. When the egg dude swallowed him, he was supposed to be dying, but alive. Then the festival took place, and he slowly transformed into a normal looking baby that quickly grew into Griffiths. It's not like the baby had a physical body when he was following Guts for those 2 years. It was more or less a ghost, and it only existed in the realm of the dead. It certainly did not have the form of pretty little elemental; it always looked the same as it did when it crawled out of Caska's tainted womb.

Personally I don't think the kid on the beach looks like a 2/3 year old; looks more like a 5/6 year old if you ask me, but he obviously looks like a fusion of Caska and Guts. Sooooo...

 

[hopeandlight]

lol looks like theres no clear anser until the end

 

[gnut]

well,i think it's gats/caska's child...but as an angel

Spoiler

Spoiler

I agree that Griffith was restricted from harming gats/caska after devouring the baby...because it has always felt odd to me that his first order of business wasn't to cash in on his 2 lost sacrifices....

 

[xanorkid]

In my understanding - Caska is already preggy with Gutz when she was raped by Femto (but Femto is aware of this already). The baby got consumed by Griffith, it takes the appearance of a young boy with long black hair. I can't conclude anything yet - but the boy seems like an angel for Gutz and Caska i guess

 

[Demonspeed]

How would that give birth to an Angel? Yes, she was pregnant and everything points out that it's Guts's child but Griffith raping her affected the kid, and that's why he as these mysterious powers. I think he resembles Guts a lot.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

If Griffith is the closest thing to a living god, and since he uses Guska as his vessel (Guska=Guts and Caska's child lol) then we could say that Guts and Caska are the parents of God, which is reminiscent of Christianity. Griffith is either the Christ or the Antichrist, depending on which person we're talking about (Neo Griffith or Femto). Actually the whole manga is filled with references to Christianity, and with the latest developments, we could say that this new Griffith is a saviour for both humans and apostles.