Discussion How deep is your canon...

[hoeru]

Best OP example would be that in one databook they said that Cutty Flam was dead and *surprise surprise* it later was contradicted by the manga, saying that it was Franky all along.

Which one would that be?!

Apparently, there's much misinformation about the One Piece databooks' contents among fandom. Cutty Flam nor Franky were mentioned before One Piece Yellow, and in that Franky's background was pretty much summarized what happened in the manga. Iceburg thought that Franky died the night, he tried to stop the sea train.

 

[deleted]

Which one would that be?!

Apparently, there's much misinformation about the One Piece databooks' contents among fandom. Cutty Flam nor Franky were mentioned before One Piece Yellow.

I admit that it wasn't me who found it but a friend of mine; I also admit that it was long enough ago for me to have forgotten which datatbook it was but I do remember how we discussed the issue...

 

[M3J]

Either way, databooks aren't complete information, but information that manga has presented so far. There's no way to tell whether Oda will go from "this character died" to "this character survived!" two or three databooks later. Databooks only tell us what happened up to the time the databook was written with some additional info. I honestly don't understand why people keep saying to completely trust the databooks.

 

[Schabrak]

Yeah it's like people completely ignore that data books would never spoil important plot points and of course the editor/designer might make a mistake here or there. Neither Oda or his assistants are unfailable.

 

[M3J]

So, if Sabo is still alive, that means the databook was wrong. Therefore, never use databook in debates again, Oda somehow gets his own manga wrong.

Though in the next databook, we'll likely see Sabo being alive if it's true and what happened after his "death" if it's explained in the story.

Databooks. Lulz.

 

[M3J]

I must gloat. Databooks were incorrect, Sabo is indeed alive. Proves us anti-databookers right, you should never go by databooks unless characters are confirmed to be dead or if you want some info. It's pretty much freakin' obvious that databooks shouldn't be entirely trusted because while they may be canon, they're not updated. I mean, if Oda finished the databook two weeks ago and released it now or a week later, it probably won't have Sabo being alive because the cutoff date was like, weeks ago.


So yeah, use the manga as canon, and databooks sparingly. Oda showed three sake cups and Dragon saving someone for a reason, to foreshadow him surviving the attack, and so we wouldn't be all "omfg GOMU GOMU NO PLOTHOLE!"

 

[Schabrak]

The databooks only represent the data of the manga until they were released, nothing more. They weren't exactly wrong as they represented things said by characters. It's because Oda gave us enough hints, like no actual body, the scene with someone being taken care of at Zoro's island by the RA and the cups, that we had a reason to doubt, a rather powerful doubt, which huero never was capable of acknowledging for an unknown reason.

So as you wrote, it's only good until the moment they were released. Any manga chapter after the release is always more right than the databook itself.

 

[Deleted member 182576]

Anime = Manga nowadays. They do 1 manga chapter = 1 anime episode
except of 3-4 new scenes, everything is like the manga, just better

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

How did the community decide what's canon and what's non-canon?

Intro

I've found this pretty much troubling especially during debates and discussions; there's this apparently unspoken so-called "FACT" within the community that says only things in the Manga are Canon. Who made this an iron-clad fact and where was it stated? I'm yet to personally see evidence of it.

Canon in general or within the community secularly is considered whatever is found in the Manga as far as I'm aware and I believe that to be valid logic; secularly, non-Canon is anything that isn't a part of the Manga which I also believe, but only to an extent.

This is what I'd like to touch on; I'll like to hear the reason for this belief and views on it:

One Piece Movies

These, I find to be definitely non-Canon because they have no relation or influence to the manga's progressive story. The entire premise of a movie is to take stories out of the context of the Manga's main story purely to entertain fans, display new concepts, experiment and possibly make use of content that cannot be used in the manga or won't be used; It's no different to a 1 shot manga and it's logically understandable why it's deemed non-Canon.

Oddly enough, if Oda is the director of a movie, there are claims that it automatically becomes Canon. However, this is somewhat contradictory because:

1. Zephyr is sometimes considered canon because Oda produced "Z Movie".
2. Gasparde isn't regarded as Canon even thoug Oda also produced "One piece Movie: Dead end Adventure".

Personally, I deem all movies ultimately non-Canon except Oda says otherwise.

Filler Arcs

These are used to prolong the longevity of the anime, the arcs have no relevance with the manga story in its entirely nor much relation to its progression. In a sense, they're like short movies.

Extra scenes from Arcs in the Manga

This is what I'd like to focus on personally, I find that many people consider these to be non-Canon because it's not in the manga. What I'd like to point out is the anime needs to run for a long time so that the manga doesn't completely catch up.

Besides catching up, the extra scenes the anime plays out, who is to say these are not scenes cut out from the manga in order to condense the story to the point that it succinctly summarizes the context of that scene?

Examples:
The Manga shows Smoker engaging Joker:

Spoiler

Next time we see Smoker, he's been utterly defeated.

Spoiler

However, the Anime gives us insight as to, how the the battle started similarly to the manga and ended, but detailing the entirety of what happened in the middle which is not seen in the manga.

For example, Ace's fight with Smoker during the Alabasta arc; it wasn't necessary to show the fight because it wasn't going to progress the story much besides providing extra information, the manga didn't expand on that scene while the anime did.

In light of all these extra arc scenes present in the Anime, how can we say they're non-Canon being that they're consistent and in-line with what we're presented with in the Manga?

Conclusion

So, in my opinion, the extra scenes from Manga arcs should be considered Canon; the Manga complements the anime in exposing minute details that can't be portrayed in the Anime, while the Anime complements the manga in the sense that the extra scenes add more flesh to the backbone of what's already known in the Manga.

The manga are merely panels which due to limitation can only provide frozen summary while Anime give a fluid depiction, so I see no reason as to why they're considered non-Canon; they're really no different to SBS for example, they essentially fulfill the same purpose of adding more information that's not detailed in the Manga.

Is there actual word from Oda that actually confirms that these extra scenes within Manga arcs are actually non-canon? For example:

• Joker's fight scene with Smoker
• Smoker's fight scene with Vergo
• Ace's fight scene with Smoker
• Ivankov's fight against Akainu

I'd personally find it weird if One Piece has been running for almost 15 years if not longer and these extra scenes actually have little to no relevance to the main story nor contribution from Oda. Surely, if that were the case, all extra scenes should contradict the Manga and should be an entirely different story.

And of course, this is not disregarding that there won't be mistakes made here and there.