Battle Illumi vs Shalnark

[DarkLordVerjal]

I am curious who would win, since they are both incredibly powerful Manipulators.

Shalnark needs to autopilot to be an elite combatant/Where as Illumi is a capable fighter regardless.
Both control people, but Shalnark seems to only do 1(2 tops since he only carries 2 antenna. Illumi's control seems less about precision control since the his victims move in an almost zombie like way, though he can control multiple people at a time.

I honestly think Illumi would definitely win, but I'm curious what other people think.

 

[Demonspeed]

Illumi wins, he is like Hisoka's equal and Hisoka is stronger than Shalnark. With his multiple needles it's also a lot more easier to control than someone with one antenna. If we consider only feats though Illumi has no way to beat him if he enters Auto Pilot mode but he is definitely stronger.

 

[Riyuki]

It's safe to assume that Shalnark can go a level beyond Auto Pilotjin 1. He said something like his back and feet will be sore for a few days. There's no way Shalnark is a weakling. I'm so sad that people constantly underrate the spiders. It's safe to assume that Zeno and Silva are both stronger than Illumi, and both of them couldn't take out Chrollo 2 vs. 1. Chrollo got a knife slice on Silva but Chrollo took a barrage of punches from Zeno. Still 2 vs 1 against Chrollo though. I feel like people seem to think Chrollo is 10x stronger stronger than every member or something.

I think Illumi would win but it would be really close. It depends on how long and how much stronger auto pilot can go.

 

[XXGenesis]

Illumi would destroy Shalnarak...Illumi is his superior in every manner.
Now I do not doubt Shalnarak's capabilities the he's a solid Nen user and a pretty smart one at that. Just up against Illumi he dies miserably.

Illumi, Silva & Zeno all have a business only relationship. That goes to show you within the patriarch of the Zoldyck family they show each other respect but still do things their own way.....Illumi sadly isn't much weaker than his father and grandfather....It's scary to think how close he really may be but the difference is only minor if you ask me.

 

[kkck]

Well, normally I would rate illumi higher although the bit with him being able to power himself up with his phone antenna is worth considering here. In this battle it would serve a lot of purposes. It would protect shalnark from illumi's own manipulation (first come first serve when it comes to manipulators) and it would dramatically increase his fighting capacity. So illumi would be left in a situation where his needles are merely work as weapons... I am not sure they would do much against shalnark. And in turn he has to heavily rely on physical combat. This would be easier if we had a better understanding on the extent of illumi's abilities however with what we know I just might give shalnark the edge solely on his boost.

 

[shionoro]

It has yet to be explained where the limitation of both illumi's and shalnark's abilities lie.

I assume that Shalnark has tighter control over his targets and possibly even could use nen abilities of a person he controls whereas Illumi can take on a whole lot of people with easy orders such as 'go there' or 'attack this guy'.

I think Illumi is a stronger fighter than Shalnark, but we do not know the limitation of shalnark's self manipulation. so it could be vice versa.

We can safely assume that illumi is hisoka's equal in strength and hisoka could take out a whole lot of temp hunters and stronger hunters like bushidora.

I don't think shalnark can do that.

Shalnark himself identified as a special ability user, not a fighting spider.

Like all spider's, he can fight, but his main expertise lies in other fields, whereas Illumi is trained to kill from his childhood.

All in all, i would assume that shalnark would not fight Illumi if he can prevent it, and rather flee.
illumi cannot control him with his needles as long as he uses self manipulation and this should enable shalnark to flee from him to group up with other spiders.

 

[XXGenesis]

Well common Manipulators need to fulfil an action to control you ex..Needle to the brain, kiss on the lips, antenna, etc

Illumi has 2 known Hatsu..1 is his needle men...the other is a subtle control over the person;what he did to Killua... Illumi can also throw his needles which can pierce solid rock because of his Shu

While Shalnark according to him carries 2* or a few antenna's. This allows him to control the person like a game from his phone... This person is still aware just not in control...& his Auto-pilot mode he controls himself gains an aura boost, his consciousness leaves him, Auto-pilot ends when the mission is accomplished.

Shalnark only chance against high level martial artist and skilled Nen users is his Auto-Pilot mode. It leaves him incapicitated afterwards I believe in accordance to how long he stays in the mode. I don't believe he's invincible in this form but it actually puts him on an equal footing so to say against ppl like Illumi or Hisoka.

 

[Riyuki]

He's not incapacitated after autopilot >_> he literally walks away and stretches his arms and says he will be sore for a couple days.

 

[kkck]

Well common Manipulators need to fulfil an action to control you ex..Needle to the brain, kiss on the lips, antenna, etc

Illumi has 2 known Hatsu..1 is his needle men...the other is a subtle control over the person;what he did to Killua... Illumi can also throw his needles which can pierce solid rock because of his Shu

While Shalnark according to him carries 2* or a few antenna's. This allows him to control the person like a game from his phone... This person is still aware just not in control...& his Auto-pilot mode he controls himself gains an aura boost, his consciousness leaves him, Auto-pilot ends when the mission is accomplished.

Shalnark only chance against high level martial artist and skilled Nen users is his Auto-Pilot mode. It leaves him incapicitated afterwards I believe in accordance to how long he stays in the mode. I don't believe he's invincible in this form but it actually puts him on an equal footing so to say against ppl like Illumi or Hisoka.

I am not sure that counts as two abilities. To me it looks like manipulation. Perhaps at best it would be varying degrees of influence through the same technique. What seems to be a different technique is the manipulation of his own body and perhaps that of others. Illumi has been seen using his needles to change his physical appearance.

From the looks of it shalnark gets a more than significant boost from his auto pilot. I don't think he is necessarily as behind as some say to the likes of hisoka or illumi either. We have not seen much but overall he seems to be a more than competent fighter. And his auto pilot should make him immune to being manipulated by illumi which should be significant in battle. Unless illumi can manipulate himself sharlnark could use his own auto pilot to at least get the antenna on illumi.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

He's not incapacitated after autopilot >_> he literally walks away and stretches his arms and says he will be sore for a couple days.

Well, he does say he can't fight for a couple of days because of muscle pain. I would think that if his auto pilot ends he would immediately loose the fight. And perhaps staying too long in it would cause long term damage.

 

[Riyuki]

Yeah but he can probably go SSJ2 and 3.

 

[XXGenesis]

I am not sure that counts as two abilities. To me it looks like manipulation. Perhaps at best it would be varying degrees of influence through the same technique. What seems to be a different technique is the manipulation of his own body and perhaps that of others. Illumi has been seen using his needles to change his physical appearance.

I'm sure that it does count for 2 seperate abilities. It looks like manipulation because that's what it is and That's what Illumi uses.......

Needle Men isn't the same technique Illumi used on Killua...The latter he doesn't turn you into a mind control zombie, just something like a puppet. *Orders Killua to never fight unless succes is guarenteed...*Causes Killua to kill Bodoro during exams..

Illumi has 3 abilities thank you...He can also alter his Apperance with his needles.

From the looks of it shalnark gets a more than significant boost from his auto pilot. I don't think he is necessarily as behind as some say to the likes of hisoka or illumi either. We have not seen much but overall he seems to be a more than competent fighter. And his auto pilot should make him immune to being manipulated by illumi which should be significant in battle. Unless illumi can manipulate himself sharlnark could use his own auto pilot to at least get the antenna on illumi.

The boost cannot be accurately determined since we never saw Shalnark using REN.. Still I say his aura is comparable to the offense spiders when in this mode...Auto-Pilot last only as long as it takes for Shalnark to complete the specific task.....Its part of its limits and Vows...So it's either Kill Illumi...Set antenna on Illumi...Etc etc....He's also not counsicious so he cannot use his wits while in this mode it's just straight obliteration of the target or accomplishment of desired Task.


---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

Well, he does say he can't fight for a couple of days because of muscle pain. I would think that if his auto pilot ends he would immediately loose the fight. And perhaps staying too long in it would cause long term damage.

Auto-Pilot is a last ditch, last move kinda Hatsu...I don't see him using it unless it's a 1 on 1. Or other Spiders are there to help secure his safety afterwards.....I doubt he'll attain long term damage, but it's obvious If used for long durations of time Shalnark will be incapicitated for a while......It's an honest balance if you ask me.

Illumi is too fast & strong for Shalnark...I don't see him winning....W/Auto-Pilot Its hard to stomache or think that Illumi wouldn't be able to handle him when in this state...Because I can argue Hisoka could & Illumi & Hisoka are basically equals

 

[ZakAtakk]

I don't think the deciding factor in this fight would be strength or speed. I would assume, based on Shalnark's aura, that in autopilot mode he is approximately equal to Illumi. But, even if Shalnark is a little stronger I don't think that would make the difference. Shalnark would not be able to get an antenna into Illumi. Illumi is the absolute least likely person in all of HxH to allow himself to be stuck with a needle like object for obvious reasons. Instead the difference, I think, is that Shalnark is unaware of his actions in autopilot. No matter how you look at it there's fundamentally no way a programmed system can be more responsive and adaptable than a person. Between Illumi's extreme combat ability and assassination techniques he would be able to adjust for and overwhelm any attack sequence by autopilot Shalnark. Specifically, assumming Illumi matched Shalnarks speed, I imagine Illumi ending it by ripping Shalnark's heart cleanly from his chest before the autopilot could even react, Zoldyck style.

Well actually.. Seeing as Shalnark only sticks himself as a last resort chances are Illumi would immediately understand the significance of that action because of his familiarity with manipulation using needles and would immediately remove the needle directly after or just before Shalnark stuck himself because of the overwhelming difference in speed between those two. So, chances are, the fight wouldn't even really start before it was over.

 

[kkck]

Well, shalnark's overall physical capacities should increase significantly when in his auto pilot. I would also question that the form would be limited in regards to reacting and whatnot when it comes to fighting. We have seen a number of nen users who have nen that for whatever reason seem to have intelligence of their own. Kite's conjured weapons, the thing that predicted the future in that girl to name a couple....

I am not sure that illumi would immediately realize what would happen if shalnark sticks himself. He might suspect something will happen but him guessing the result would be incredibly lucky at best. Illumi sticks his needles into himself to change his appearance.... What happens when you manipulate yourself might as well be random....