Match Inui Vs Renji(Battle of Data)

[mathematicianrcg]

I believe Renji should be the better player. He has more hype. He is a part of Rikkai Big 3. But feats says otherwise.

Inui beat Renji head to head.
Inui beat mizuki(Renji lost to mizuki)

Clearly, if you look at that, Inui is the better player.

The only argument you can give to Renji is he always beats akaya. Inui cannot neutralize akaya's devil mode. But obviously Renji has more data on Akaya. If Inui has more data, maybe he can beat akaya too.

Renji has more data on his teacher mizuki, than Inui. Yet Renji lost, Inui won.

So, is really Inui better than renji? If that is the case, then if fuji and inui transferred to rikkai, renji will be fifth.

 

[Kaoz]

Inui beat mizuki(Renji lost to mizuki)

Mitsuya, not Mizuki.

Anyway, Yanagi is probably better. Towards the end of the France D1 match, Inui was trembling during Japan's comeback. It indicates a certain level of awe.

As for the previous matches, Inui himself said the Kanto finals were a 50/50 shot and either of them could've taken it. Yanagi beat Inui pretty handily in data during the national finals, although it's unclear what would've happened if Inui hadn't gotten knocked out. Finally, against Mitsuya, those weren't individual matches - after realizing that he wouldn't be able to win himself, Yanagi played to give Inui more data, making it essentially a team battle. And even with that Inui only had a 33% chance of winning, so I wouldn't overemphasize the results here.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Mitsuya, not Mizuki.

Anyway, Yanagi is probably better. Towards the end of the France D1 match, Inui was trembling during Japan's comeback. It indicates a certain level of awe.

As for the previous matches, Inui himself said the Kanto finals were a 50/50 shot and either of them could've taken it. Yanagi beat Inui pretty handily in data during the national finals, although it's unclear what would've happened if Inui hadn't gotten knocked out. Finally, against Mitsuya, those weren't individual matches - after realizing that he wouldn't be able to win himself, Yanagi played to give Inui more data, making it essentially a team battle. And even with that Inui only had a 33% chance of winning, so I wouldn't overemphasize the results here.

oh sorry. I mean mitsuya.

Inui Vs Renji in Kanto looks like a plot armor. Inui cannot lose that one, or else seigaku will lose.

National Finals. Yes, Finally Renji outdata Inui. But it is in doubles. Kirihara is a better player than kaido. I want a Renji Vs Inui rematch without plot armor. Renji will probably win.

But in the mitsuya match. Renji should have more data. Mitsuya is his mentor and teacher. There is no way Inui will have more data than Renji by just watching them play.

As far as I know, we just assumed Inui beat Mitsuya right? It was never shown. Mitsuya could have just give the badge seeing the determination of Inui and Renji.

 

[Kaoz]

But in the mitsuya match. Renji should have more data. Mitsuya is his mentor and teacher. There is no way Inui will have more data than Renji by just watching them play.

As far as I know, we just assumed Inui beat Mitsuya right? It was never shown. Mitsuya could have just give the badge seeing the determination of Inui and Renji.

It goes both ways though. Mitsuya also had all of Yanagi's data, but didn't know Inui at all. So in Mitsuya vs Yanagi, Mitsuya still had the advantage in data - both because he knew Yanagi's and was able to destroy Yanagi's more effectively. But, in Mitsuya vs Inui, Inui had data on Mitsuya whereas Mitsuya didn't have any on Inui.

And you're right, it's not explicitly shown (unless the summary in volume 10.5 goes into greater detail), but I think that if Mitsuya had given up his badge without losing the match, that would've been shown, like in the No. 12/13 match.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

It goes both ways though. Mitsuya also had all of Yanagi's data, but didn't know Inui at all. So in Mitsuya vs Yanagi, Mitsuya still had the advantage in data - both because he knew Yanagi's and was able to destroy Yanagi's more effectively. But, in Mitsuya vs Inui, Inui had data on Mitsuya whereas Mitsuya didn't have any on Inui.

And you're right, it's not explicitly shown (unless the summary in volume 10.5 goes into greater detail), but I think that if Mitsuya had given up his badge without losing the match, that would've been shown, like in the No. 12/13 match.

Oh yeah you are right there. Mitsuya do not know inui.

I believe Mitsuya really did not lose. Mitsuya could just give his badge as a gift to his student and student's student. I feel the opposite. If Inui did really won, it should be shown

 

[Hardy]

Mitsuya, not Mizuki.

Anyway, Yanagi is probably better. Towards the end of the France D1 match, Inui was trembling during Japan's comeback. It indicates a certain level of awe.

As for the previous matches, Inui himself said the Kanto finals were a 50/50 shot and either of them could've taken it. Yanagi beat Inui pretty handily in data during the national finals, although it's unclear what would've happened if Inui hadn't gotten knocked out. Finally, against Mitsuya, those weren't individual matches - after realizing that he wouldn't be able to win himself, Yanagi played to give Inui more data, making it essentially a team battle. And even with that Inui only had a 33% chance of winning, so I wouldn't overemphasize the results here.

Hm, I never really believed the 50/50 thing, the whole match went basically the way Inui wanted. Yanagi said it himself, while he was more oriented towards doubles, Inui was at heart a singles player (and that's quite accurate as that's where each played their best in both series).

Overall I think going into any match Yanagi has the upper hand (unless his opponent has studied him relentlessly) but if he doesn't seal the deal fast enough a player like Inui is better.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2020, Original Post Date: May 21, 2020 ---

Oh yeah you are right there. Mitsuya do not know inui.

I believe Mitsuya really did not lose. Mitsuya could just give his badge as a gift to his student and student's student. I feel the opposite. If Inui did really won, it should be shown

What, no way, that's completely backwards thinking with nothing to back it up, lol. Momo/Kenya, Kin, Oishi/Niou etc were not shown till the end either but we know who won.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Hm, I never really believed the 50/50 thing, the whole match went basically the way Inui wanted. Yanagi said it himself, while he was more oriented towards doubles, Inui was at heart a singles player (and that's quite accurate as that's where each played their best in both series).

Overall I think going into any match Yanagi has the upper hand (unless his opponent has studied him relentlessly) but if he doesn't seal the deal fast enough a player like Inui is better.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2020, Original Post Date: May 21, 2020 ---

What, no way, that's completely backwards thinking with nothing to back it up, lol. Momo/Kenya, Kin, Oishi/Niou etc were not shown till the end either but we know who won.

Oishi/Niou shows the triple synchro that we can assume they used to beat the twins. Kin is up against a fodder. Momo/Kenya atleast have some clips.

Inui Vs Mitsuya- We did not even see Inui entered the court.

 

[Kaoz]

Hm, I never really believed the 50/50 thing, the whole match went basically the way Inui wanted. Yanagi said it himself, while he was more oriented towards doubles, Inui was at heart a singles player (and that's quite accurate as that's where each played their best in both series).

Even then they played a very long tiebreak in the end. You could say that Inui's plan got him to that point, but who wins the tiebreak is usually a bit of a toss-up, so the 50/50 makes sense to me from that perspective.

Inui Vs Mitsuya- We did not even see Inui entered the court.

That was probably just because of the nature of the arc though, with it only transitioning to the next big matches rather than having any major ones itself.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Inui-Better at Singles, Weak in doubles
Yanagi- Better at doubles(Just think of this now, Renji did not lose a doubles official game yet). But he is capable of playing singles.

So I can conclude Yanagi is really the better player now. Thanks guys for the input.

 

[Kaoz]

Inui-Better at Singles, Weak in doubles

Let's maybe not exaggerate in the other direction now. Even if he doesn't specialize in doubles, Inui was still a very successful doubles player in elementary school. There's no indication he's bad at it.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Let's maybe not exaggerate in the other direction now. Even if he doesn't specialize in doubles, Inui was still a very successful doubles player in elementary school. There's no indication he's bad at it.

But Inui has a lot of losses in doubles in seigaku.

And it is also said that aside from Oishi/Kikumaru pair, seigaku do not have any consistent good doubles pair. Fuji/Kawamura and Inui/Kaido are not really a good doubles pair.

Rikkai, they have jackal/marui pair. But other players could play doubles too. Yanagi,Akaya,Niou,Yagyuu. Even Sanada.

So I can assume that in their elementary doubles, it is more yanagi. Especially if you consider that he was good enough to be a part of rikkai 3 demons.

 

[Kaoz]

And it is also said that aside from Oishi/Kikumaru pair, seigaku do not have any consistent good doubles pair. Fuji/Kawamura and Inui/Kaido are not really a good doubles pair.

That statement was from before Inui and Kaidou started pairing up, though. Also, their record isn't really bad. They're 3-2 overall and both losses were to some of the strongest pairs in the nation, one of whom Oishi/Kikumaru also lost to for that matter. Inui/Kaidou are a good second doubles.

So I can assume that in their elementary doubles, it is more yanagi.

I find it unlikely that you can become one of the nation's best doubles pairs if one of the players is legitimately bad at doubles. Granted, Yanagi probably led the team, but I see no reason to assume a combination of a great player and a bad player here, rather than a great player and an average to maybe even above average one.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

That statement was from before Inui and Kaidou started pairing up, though. Also, their record isn't really bad. They're 3-2 overall and both losses were to some of the strongest pairs in the nation, one of whom Oishi/Kikumaru also lost to for that matter. Inui/Kaidou are a good second doubles.



I find it unlikely that you can become one of the nation's best doubles pairs if one of the players is legitimately bad at doubles. Granted, Yanagi probably led the team, but I see no reason to assume a combination of a great player and a bad player here, rather than a great player and an average to maybe even above average one.

Ok. But I will still say Yanagi is better in doubles. And even singles if they play again.

Volk/Frankensteiner is one example of that right? Frank is weak. A lot of Japan MS can beat him. Volk is just so strong, thats why their pair works. If frank will play 1v1 against Yuki and tokugawa, frank will probably lose. But in doubles, Volk is so strong that he can lift a weaker player.

Having said that, as I said I already concluded that Renji Yanagi was,is, and will be the better player.

Mouri(To yanagi): Next time,Dont settle for no. 3,Surpass sanada and yuki, and aim for the no.1.

Even Mouri believes that Yanagi can surpass Sanada and Yukimura. Mouri I believe knows them all personally.

 

[Kaoz]

Volk/Frankensteiner is one example of that right? Frank is weak. A lot of Japan MS can beat him. Volk is just so strong, thats why their pair works. If frank will play 1v1 against Yuki and tokugawa, frank will probably lose. But in doubles, Volk is so strong that he can lift a weaker player.

No, I wouldn't agree with that. Volk overshadowed everyone in that match before Tokugawa regained his fighting spirit, but chances are it would've still been competitive if you'd replaced him with, say, Bismarck. And while there's a bunch of MSers that could defeat Frankensteiner in singles, it's not a given in my mind by any means.

At the same time, if you put Volk/Frankensteiner against a world level doubles pair like Schneider/Bertie, I'd see them at a disadvantage.

To come back to Yanagi and Inui, if Yanagi had carried their pair like you're suggesting, I don't see why they'd have been eager to play each other to find out who's stronger - it would've already been clear ahead of time.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

No, I wouldn't agree with that. Volk overshadowed everyone in that match before Tokugawa regained his fighting spirit, but chances are it would've still been competitive if you'd replaced him with, say, Bismarck. And while there's a bunch of MSers that could defeat Frankensteiner in singles, it's not a given in my mind by any means.

At the same time, if you put Volk/Frankensteiner against a world level doubles pair like Schneider/Bertie, I'd see them at a disadvantage.

To come back to Yanagi and Inui, if Yanagi had carried their pair like you're suggesting, I don't see why they'd have been eager to play each other to find out who's stronger - it would've already been clear ahead of time.

Scheidner/Bertie lost to Niou/Duke. No way Volk/Frank will lose against The doubles pro. It shows you how strong Volk is.

Yukimura victimize Frankensteiner easily and early by yips/dream. Tokugawa is a better player than Yukimura. Surely, Tokugawa will beat Frankensteiner too.

Ryoma,Yukimura,Sanada, Atobe,Fuji,Akatsu,Shiraishi. I think all of them can beat Frankensteiner mid difficulty. Especially Frankensteiner lacking in intelligence.

As I recall, the only one who is eager was YANAGI. Inui looks like he did not want to play seriously against Renji. I am not sure if Inui was scared cause yanagi is better, or just do not want to play against his friend.

But anyway, I already made up my mind that YANAGI was and is the better player among them.