Third Place Kouka (Gintama) vs. Riza Hawkeye

[Sky]

Kouka Gintama​	-	Riza Hawkeye Full Metal Alchemist​

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[GrySun]

@Organizized just curious, you mad yet? Riza can get bronze still though!

Not sure who to vote here myself.

 

[Arjuna]

Well it's saddening but anyway it's though it's not right to waste time in crying.


I and @Erinyes had hoped that we will have a final match together. But well any way it didn't happen but we are still having bronze match.

Erin all the best to you



I will focus on the waifu qualities of Riza

She is lovable

Riza has shown to have lovable side and the ability to love those who are good people or close to her.
Riza's softer side tends to make itself known through her interactions with younger characters, like the Elric brothers and Winry Rockbell. It isn't unusual to see her behaving sweetly toward her pet Black Hayate, but while in private. Since she is very disciplined, she takes her work seriously and is almost never seen “dropping formalities,” even with those who are most intimate to her. She’s not prone to public displays of affection, preferring to show her feelings through more subtle ways.

In addition her feelings towards Roy is thoroughly hinted towards the series.

she is emotionally prone to crying like any other human being which shows her softer sides.

She supports Roy

She is brave

Needless to say she is brave.She is a veteran of the Ishvalan war and she faced deaths many times.She emerges from war with heavy guilts of the war but she realised pondering over the past won't get anywhere.She decides to support Mustang in hopes that future generation don't suffer the horrors of Ishvalan type of conflicts

She is an excellent fighter

Riza is an expert shap shooter and fire arms specialist.She has lightning fast reflexes to analyse,figh and take counter measures to deal with any adverse situation/

She can protect you in our world.

\

Please support Riza everyone

Riza is viewed by others as a model soldier & a model woman.She is quite multi dimensional woman.On one hand you may find her to be a cold person but her interactions with her close circle like her pet dog Black Hayate,Elric brothers,Winry etc.portray her softer sides.

she is a person who can provide moral and emotional support to her dear ones especially her husbando.



Moreover she is beautiful,the wonderful part is the author didn't feel need to overly sexualise her appearance and she still appears as a paragon of beauty

she has been carrying the burden of Ishvalan war and the passage of Flame Alchemy,but she realized that crying or pondering over the past,won't make her move forward.She bravely confronts her past and takes it upon herself to make sure that if Roy ever strays from his line,she will be the first one to shoot him and then take her own life.Such is her devotion to her duty and her love for Roy.


Her extraordinary senses makes her realise of all kinds of dangers.

A true woman who will not only love you but can actually protect you.

 

[Erinyes]

Good luck Arjuna !
i just came home didint expect results to be that early

wiki

Personnality :

Kouka appears cold at first, acting rather hostile to Umibouzu when they first met, ignoring Umibouzu's pursuit and attacking him when he sexually harassed her without looking in his direction. She also seems to be expressionless, possibly due to years of living in solitude.
She also has a terrifying side and Umibouzu fears her greatly. Mutsu describes their domestic situation as "the strongest man in the universe becomes the weakest at home." Umibouzu and Kamui are shown fleeing from Kouka in a flashback. However Kouka also loves her family very much, even willing to risk her life to stay by their side despite knowing that it will eventually cause her death.


Story :

Kouka appeared when Umibouzu was in the midst of fighting Orochi, defeating the creature with ease. Before she left the lovestruck man, Kouka corrected his thinking by stating how Kouan was still thriving and that he should not measure the planet by his own standards. She then told Umibouzu to leave and not disturb Orochi that went aggressive due to his intrusion. She then attempt to quieten the creature down, which went on for three days and nights with Umibouzu by her side throughout. After exchanging words, Kouka introduced herself and welcomed the man back at any time as he wished. From then on they started having frequent interactions, and Kouka started developing feelings for Umibouzu. She eventually decided to follow him and left Kouan to start a family together.

Kouka led a normal life taking care of her family after settling down on Rakuyou. However her health deteriorated after giving birth to Kagura and she became bedridden since. It was also revealed that the Yato family was ostracised by the Rakuyou residents as a result of her failing health. Despite knowing her inevitable death, Kouka did not regret her decision to leave Kouan and expressed her wishes to be with her family till the end. Kouka's condition worsened after witnessing the confrontation between her husband and son, with the latter leaving home as a result of losing. Before drawing her last breath, she envisioned her whole family being by her side and was glad at how they could finally visit the Earth together.

Kouka later appeared again as Kamui's illusion while he lie on Kagura's lap after his defeat.

my video campaigns

Links are provided in case it doesnt work when embedded

Music : Track from HxH2011 : Ginpatsu no Shonen - by Yoshihisa Hirano

https://streamable.com/9wuda

Music : Track from FMA 2003 : Bratja (brothers) by Anastasia & Veronika Golovina


Music : Insert song from Made in Abyss : Hanezeve Caradhina - by Kenvin Penkin /Takeshi Saito

https://streamable.com/ej92i

Kouka being praised everywher :)

D-Redman

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Kouka x Kouka

Red Line- Koukayashi

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Shokugeki no Kouka

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2018 ---

Genuine thoughts about Riza
wrote this at the before 1st round even started bc expected somehow to be against Riza at early stage (you know bad karma

and stuff, i know im wasting my tume but still will post it. Im not trying to dis my opponent far from it, i respect every single nominee, but its my honest thought about something thats extremely important to me. Its not me trying to get votes or anything tbh i dont care of being 3rd or last or anything.
Arjuna did an awesome campaign, props to him, but if im not mistaken, he relied solely on the anime, i guess many people know the anime only, and in the adaptation, it seems to me that some important points were maybe treated in a way that they might not look so bad, while actually they definitely are, imo.

Riza

That’s some point i tried to avoid, but i feel it’s important to state it at some point. To be honest i never expected Riza to ever be nominated in a “best waifu contest”, I’m actually amazed how much we tend to ignore some important facts regarding her, i’m sometimes wondering if we read the same manga/saw the same anime.

So Riza is, like almost all female character in FMa, an outstanding char. Arkawa knows how to portray females, she didnt make them weak, not mary sue, she gave them a strong personality and still tried to give them complexity, depth and didnt make them relying on men, whether they are main or not. Riza is not my fave in Fma though, Olivier Mira Armstrong steals the spot for me, she s just my all time fave.

Regarding her personality, Riza is definitely a strong and caring person, who protects not only the one(s) she love but she’s commited in created a better future for her country.

Riza is an amazing character prolly among my fave females and i know people love her and love a lot FMA. But now looking more deeply in the waifu angle, i have some reservation. Is she waifu material ? she might be, but as much as i love her i don’t think she’s the BEST waifu out there, far from it. Then why ?

Arakawa’s a great writer and she did an awesome job in including the focal part about the past and Ishbal extermination right in the middle of her work around chapter 60, to emphasize how its important and the role it plays for the plot and for the character’s life.

Amestria under Bradley symbolizes obviously Germany, the war was not even a war to protect population or what so, Ishbal never threatened Amestria to begin with, but Amestria wanted to annex their country and kill the ishbalans for the whole Bradley plan you all know. And let’s not be in denial what Bradley and his army did is similar to what nazis did (there’s no doubt about the analogies), even though its quite euphemized in the manga and even more in the anime, it is nothing more than exterminating the whole Ishbalan population (how matter how you look at it an extermination is what we call a genocide or an ethnic cleansing including all the horror you all know)

And Riza has actively participated in this genocide and she chose to do so (there’s no ambiguity in her free will participation), and she is burdened by the weight of her past, she qualified herself as a war criminal that deserves to be trialed.

Of course they werent happy to do that but still they were conditioned and they had to bear the scars of it. (they still could disobey or desert depending on their morality if they wanted, but they choose to stay, I still think Armstrong is one of the best char considering he’s the only one who refused to take part to this even if it’s stained his reputation within the army, hes the true FMA hero, Armstrong family is awesome)

I know many people will vote for riza because she’s a great char from a great manga/anime without necessary taking in account the waifu qualities, but please try to think carefully who will realistically accept to live with a former war criminal who was involved in a mass murdering ? Nobody likely.

Being a great character is irrelevant its not a popularity contest but a waifu contest.

As much as i love someone, if this person happens to be a murderer whether its within war circonstances or not, i ll never be able to accept such a person in my life, and i will refuse that such a person to be a parent of my children that’s it. A former war criminal means to me someone burdened, emotionally unstable and someone i can never really trust, i ll never be happy to be hugged by someone who killed and possibly tortured other people, i would never entrust my child(ren) to someone who killed other’s ones), im sorry im not nice & not forgiving enough to overlook someone’s heavy past as long as this someone has crossed a certain line.


So is Riza an awesome character : definitely !

Is riza waifu material : can’t tell, she could be !

Is Riza the BEST waifu material around : I dont think so !

I’m not the one who said it, she said it, she gave up on her happiness and decided to dedicate her life for a new future for the country and to atone for her sins. also Arakawa did cleverly wrap up her work with pairings, but if you look closely none of the former “war criminals” is paired officially, the only one who tried to live a normal life with his family ended up dead, and i think the message is quite clear, “you can’t exactly turn the page of what happened, you have to live with it you can’t be happy after such a past”. So please again think carefully, and have a closer look on Riza’s life and past and don’t forget the historical/IRL analogies, and try to be honest : would you accept a formal war criminal as a love partner ? how would you react if you happened to fall in love with such a person, would you ignore her/his past ? Will you be genuinely happy ? will you trust such a person ?

Im not tarring with the same brush usual soldiers or military men with war criminals (even though i think there is’nt such a thing as a jus bellum, all wars are wrong imo, at least to a certain point).

I’m not saying this to be salty, thats some questions i’m legitimately considering, and that’s how i honestly feel about that, it s some ethical matters that count for me,i want to live a peaceful life not to share someone’s burden, sins and guilt. Maybe other people are fine with this, maybe i m the one who is not normal but... im trying to imagine how were nazi soldiers partners feeling or any person who lives with a soldier involved in a genocide (in present time)....

Best Fma waifu material imo are Izumi curtis or Trisha Elric (+Winry even though shes the Fma female i like the least).

 

[SirSamuel016]

It's gotta be a Kouka win here, that's the only way this can end right.

 

[Kiki]

Good luck Arjuntul. You did well

 

[Takuan]

@Erinyes
What you wrote about Riza was great. It is good to have a reminder of everything regarding her past, and not only her positive points. The massacre in Ishbal sure plays a huge part in Riza's life and in the story as a whole. It is good that you brought that up, this is only fair, and you did that without bashing Riza. Pretty good.

Though i have some questions, because as much as i understand your stance globally, i need enlightment on certain things.

First i understand what you're saying, and i do agree with you. Alex Armstrong being the only one to actually refuse to be involved in that mass murder makes him an amazing character. A true MPV. What i don't understand though, is that earlier in your post you said that you loved Olivier Armstrong, more so that Riza. Fair enough, but after being so criticizing of Riza's choice to participate in the Ishbal war, why don't you hold the same grudge against Oliver? Oliver who not only never expressed regret or guilt for what happened and her involvment in the war (correct me if im wrong) contrary to Riza, but also was highly disdainful of her brother the MVP.
Unless you love her but don't think she'd be a great waifu? Because as i understand it, following what you said Oliver would make even less of a waifu than Riza.

Secondly, you started losing me a bit after you said:

if you look closely none of the former “war criminals” is paired officially, the only one who tried to live a normal life with his family ended up dead, and i think the message is quite clear, “you can’t exactly turn the page of what happened, you have to live with it you can’t be happy after such a past”.

You really think there is a symbolic behind everyone not being paired up, and behind Hughes' death?
I had never heard of that before and this is very interesting tbh. It can be seen like that indeed. Personally, i don't think that's the case.
I think the reason Riza and Mustang never got together, or even openly expressed feelings, is more due to Mustang's career, Riza being her subordinate, and Riza's guilt. So yes in a way i can agree that the Ishbal war made it very hard for her especially to find happiness, because she herself thinks she doesn't deserve happiness after what she's done. But i don't thing there's a kind of symbolic, that nobody who participated in the war deserve happiness.
Hughes himself died, but for reason entirely unrelated; and he was actually very happy in his marriage with his wife. I'd say Hughes is actually a proof that even the Ishbal war criminals can reach happiness with a family.

My third and last point, i think you're too harsh.
I agree with you that every war is bad, mass murder during the Ishbal war was indeed horrible, and i understand your reluctance to be with a person involved in such an event. But i think the manga/anime made it very clear that everyone (well, most anyway, aside from Kimblee-like assholes) who was involved in the Ishbal war felt horribly wrong about the whole situation. Do you really think nobody from them deserve happiness in their life?
Again taking Hughes' example, do you think he was a bad husbando because of his past?
Would that mean that the only person in FMA's army who can be trusted and who deserves to be happy in his life is Alex Armstrong? Now keep in mind that while h's the most honourable of all, he still committed atrocities by following orders, just like everyone else; he just stopped after a while. So he's also guilty of having been part of a war murder.
Like, i can agree that i wouldn't be paired up with someone having enjoyed such events (Kimblee) or someone who gave the orders (Bradley, the higher-ups). But the soldiers reluctantly following orders while being disgusted of it, and afterwards feeling guilt for years, can't be put in the same pedestal. If anything, Riza is, with Armstrong, one of the most honourable soldier from the war because of her sheer guilt, regrets and resolve after the war compared to everybody else.

 

[Erinyes]

Though i have some questions, because as much as i understand your stance globally, i need enlightment on certain things.

First i understand what you're saying, and i do agree with you. Alex Armstrong being the only one to actually refuse to be involved in that mass murder makes him an amazing character. A true MPV. What i don't understand though, is that earlier in your post you said that you loved Olivier Armstrong, more so that Riza. Fair enough, but after being so criticizing of Riza's choice to participate in the Ishbal war, why don't you hold the same grudge against Oliver? Oliver who not only never expressed regret or guilt for what happened and her involvment in the war (correct me if im wrong) contrary to Riza, but also was highly disdainful of her brother the MVP.
Unless you love her but don't think she'd be a great waifu? Because as i understand it, following what you said Oliver would make even less of a waifu than Riza.

1st did I ever nominated oliver as a best waifu ? no if i thought she was qualified i would have nominated her (she's just my fave female char. Also shes not disdainful at all she respects deeply her brother shes just actying cold)
Seems you re mixing best character and best waifu material. i ve said i love her as a great char. Also i never said i hate riza did you read my post ?

Riza is an amazing character prolly among my fave females and i know people love her and love a lot FMA. But now looking more deeply in the waifu angle, i have some reservation. Is she waifu material ?

Also Olivier has never been involved in ishabal extermination, to begin with. she s been working in protecting Briggs in the north for years. when Bradley issued the order for ishbalan extermination, Miles has just start working under Mira in the North (did you watch the anime/ or read the manga ?)

Miles history
In 1908, when Führer King Bradley's issue of Order 3066 called for the assembly and confinement of all Ishvalan people serving in the Amestrian military at the start of the Ishval Civil War's final stage, Miles had just been assigned to Armstrong's command at Briggs.

And she did also disobeyed by not handling Miles over and let him working for her, while she was supposed to turn every ishbalan (yeah thats Armstrong family for you !). so thats not comparable at all. Please read carefully, ive never been dissing Riza as a character, just saying she doesnt deserve the Best waifu title.

You really think there is a symbolic behind everyone not being paired up, and behind Hughes' death?
I had never heard of that before and this is very interesting tbh. It can be seen like that indeed. Personally, i don't think that's the case.

No, but riza stated herself in the manga that she gave up on everything and on her happiness (didnt i posted manga pics stating she will never forget what she did and she could never atone for her sins ?) Its obviously the case for Mustang and yeah i see Hughes death as an impossible realization of happiness.

My third and last point, i think you're too harsh.
I agree with you that every war is bad, mass murder during the Ishbal war was indeed horrible, and i understand your reluctance to be with a person involved in such an event. But i think the manga/anime made it very clear that everyone (well, most anyway, aside from Kimblee-like assholes) who was involved in the Ishbal war felt horribly wrong about the whole situation. Do you really think nobody from them deserve happiness in their life?
Again taking Hughes' example, do you think he was a bad husbando because of his past?
Would that mean that the only person in FMA's army who can be trusted and who deserves to be happy in his life is Alex Armstrong? Now keep in mind that while h's the most honourable of all, he still committed atrocities by following orders, just like everyone else; he just stopped after a while. So he's also guilty of having been part of a war murder.
Like, i can agree that i wouldn't be paired up with someone having enjoyed such events (Kimblee) or someone who gave the orders (Bradley, the higher-ups). But the soldiers reluctantly following orders while being disgusted of it, and afterwards feeling guilt for years, can't be put in the same pedestal. If anything, Riza is, with Armstrong, one of the most honourable soldier from the war because of her sheer guilt, regrets and resolve after the war compared to everybody else.

all soldiers are the same as long they act as blind followers.

Harsh ? i think im realistic, of course they felt wrong, again i said it in my post, but who cares ! they should have felt wrong before exterminating the population, like Armstrong did. Feeling guilty is ok, i totally understand that, but dont expect anyone to have it easy after being part of a genocide.
Im fine if justice does the job and forgive them, but im not fine with living /loving a former war criminal. Yeah, she has regrets, but too late for a resolve. i mean she said herself no one forced her she chose this path by herself.

and she's the very one who gave up on love and happiness.
Well armstong disobeyed hes still alive at least with a clearer conscience. so whats wrong in disobeying when the orders given are wrong ? ( privileges ? career? fame ?)

+edit

Extermination of a full ethny belongs to crime against humanity :

Crimes against humanity
Article 7 defines crimes against humanity as acts "committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack". The article lists 16 such as individual crimes:

1. Murder
2. Extermination
3. Enslavement
4. Deportation or forcible transfer of population
5. Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty
6. Torture
7. Rape
8. Sexual slavery
9. Enforced prostitution
10. Forced pregnancy
11. Enforced sterilization
12. Sexual violence
13. Persecution
14. Enforced disappearance of persons
15. Apartheid
16. Other inhumane acts

So as riza mentionned they should normally have been trialed for their crimes, if they would have they would have likely get capital punishment or some life sentence, so theres no room anymore for happiness for them.

Well again im amazed people are ready to accept and forgive a genocide. I really think @Takuan you re too idealistic, thats not how life works, if you ended up with such a person you ll be miserable, no, actually you ll be miserable even if you ended up with a person that didnt do 1/10000 of what she did.

 

[Takuan]

1st did I ever nominated oliver as a best waifu ? no if i thought she was qualified i would have nominated her (she's just my fave female char. Also shes not disdainful at all she respects deeply her brother shes just actying cold)
seems you re mixing best character and best waifu material. i ve said i love her as a great char. Also i never said i hate riza did you read my post ?

I'm not mixing best character and best waifu; i was asking if you considered Oliver a good waifu. I didn't say you did, and it seems you're the one not reading my post properly.
I also didn't said that you hated Riza; again, i'm not the one not reading the other's post.

What i said was this:
1) You like Riza but you don't consider her the best waifu.
2) You like Oliver more than Riza.
3) I ask you why you like Oliver so much despite what she's done (though as you say below, i was wrong about Oliver's past)
4) I ask if you'd consider Oliver a good waifu.

No need to be defensive though.

Also i don't know what you're talking about. Oliver IS disdainful regarding her brother. She loves him and in the end respects him and all, that's all good for me, but still she thinks Alex resigning from ishbal war was a disgrace. That point cannot be contested.

Also Olivier has never been involved in ishabal extermination, to begin with. she s been working in Briggs in the north for years. when Bradley order ishbalan extermination, miles has just start working under Mira in the North (did you watch the anime/ or read the manga ?)

Miles history



In 1908, when Führer King Bradley's issue of Order 3066 called for the assembly and confinement of all Ishvalan people serving in the Amestrian military at the start of the Ishval Civil War's final stage, Miles had just been assigned to Armstrong's command at Briggs.

And she did also disobeyed by not handling Miles over and let him working for her. so thats not comparable at all, please read carefully, ive never been dissing Riza as a character, just saying she doesnt deserve the Best waifu title.

My bad, i completely had forgotten about Oliver overall and generaly, what everybody did in the past.
Though it is just the same. Oliver thought and stated times and times again that Alex was a disgrace due to his shameful resign during the Ishbal war. Meaning that had she been in Alex' place, she would never had resigned. She would have continued the massacre.

Please read carefully, i never said you were dissing Riza as a character (i even said at the begining of my post that i liked the way you didn't diss her). You don't think she deserves the best waifu title, well, here's where i can potentiolly put words in your mouth, because the way i see your post, it actually seems like you don't consider Riza a potential waifu at all. Not just "best", you're saying you personally would never even think of being with a person like Riza.

No, but riza stated herself in the manga that she gave up on everything and on her happiness (didnt i posted manga pics stating she will never forget what she did and she could never atone for her sins ?) . its obviously the case for Mustang and yeah i see Hughes death as an impossible realization of happiness.

Yes, she did. I don't know what the proves. I also said she did say that.
Alright about Hughes, i guess it's an interesting theory, or interpretation. In my opinion the fact alone that he was able to live happily with his wife and child for so long after the war, is a proof that it is indeed possible to reach happiness after the war. To each his own.
Though that means you feel it's wrong that the manga allowed him to live happily with his family for that long? He shouldn't have had a family in the first place?

all soldiers are the same as long they act as blind followers.

Fair enough.

Harsh ? i think im realistic, of course they felt wrong again i said it in my post, but who cares ! they should have felt wrong before exterminating like Armstrong did. Feeling guilty is ok, i totally understand that but dont expect anyone to have it easy after being part of a genocide.

Armstrong felt wrong during the genocide, not before. He participated just like everybody else; he just stopped before the end.

Im fine if justice does the job and forgive them, but im not fine with living /loving a former war criminal. Yeah she has regrets, but too late for a resolve. i mean she said herself no one forced her she chose this path by herself.

and she s the very one who gave up on love and happiness.

She chose this path herself, just like everyone in the military.
She gave up on love and happiness, true, but that's not what we're discussing. Regardless of what Riza thinks, you personally think she shouldn't be able to be happy in life after what she did. I see things differently, that's all.

Well armstong disobeyed hes still alive at least with a clearer conscience. so whats wrong in disobeying when the orders given are wrong ? (privileges ? career, fame ?)

Oh no i agree that disobeying was the right thing to do. I never said that Armstrong made a mistake by disobeying. Though by your standards, you should be thinking that Armstrong is still guilty of the same crime as the others, only to a lesser extent because he stopped before the end. he still massacred people by following orders for a while.

Well again im amazed people are ready to accept and forgive a genocide. I really think @Takuan you re too idealistic, thats not how life works, if you ended up with such a person you ll be miserable, no, actually you ll be miserable even if you ended up with a person that didnt do 1/10000 of what she did.

Forgiving a genocide, i'm not doing. But i'm not blaming the entire military for that.

I'm not going to comment on the "you're too idealistic", that's pretty ironic to me. I also wont comment on the "you'll be miserable if", seems like you know me better than i know myself.

This is an interesting debate tbh, a very legit one, where the responsibility starts and stops, who should or should not be blamed and to which extent. You'd forgive nobody, that's your choice, and tbh i could be just the same.


I would have enjoyed talking to you and starting a debate. But the fact that you're so agressive towards me when i don't think i've been offensive to you, makes me not want to continue this any further. That's a shame tbh.

 

[Erinyes]

I would have enjoyed talking to you and starting a debate. But the fact that you're so agressive towards me when i don't think i've been offensive to you, makes me not want to continue this any further. That's a shame tbh.

Offensive ? me agrressive ? no im not ? sorry if you felt that way, i just answered your questions.

about olivier i said earlier somewhere in some previous rounds, i dont consider her as the best waifu material, otherwise i would have nominated her. I do consider her as a very intersting char. and nominated her in some "most badass female char" previously.
Everyone chose the path yeah agree, but actually its implied ( or at least this is how i feel abt it) that riza chose this path for other reasons ( i tend to think shes been in love with mustang for a long time considering she knows him for a long time, and chose this path to be with him. but thats just some asumptions nothing solid just my guts telling me this, also after the war and despite the whole trauma, she still stayed in the military and chose to work under him, she said something like "ill follow anywhere even in hell")
yeah i know armstrong start feeling guilty during the war i didnt implied it was before, though.

As for happiness and Hughes, i would have agreed with you if he wasnt dead, to me the fact Arakawa chose to kill him, out of all the people, it has to be for symbolical purposes.

 

[Takuan]

Offensive ? me agrressive ? no im not ? sorry if you felt that way, i just answered your questions.

All good

about olivier i said earlier somewhere in some previous rounds, i dont consider her as the best waifu material, otherwise i would have nominated her. I do consider her as a very intersting char. and nominated her in some "most badass female char" previously.

She's pretty badass yeah, i like her a lot as well.

Everyone chose the path yeah agree, but actually its implied ( or at least this is how i feel abt it) that riza chose this path for other reasons ( i tend to think shes been in love with mustang for a long time considering she knows him for a long time, and chose this path to be with him. but thats just some asumptions nothing solid just my guts telling me this, also after the war and despite the whole trauma, she still stayed in the military and chose to work under him, she said something like "ill follow anywhere even in hell")
yeah i know armstrong start feeling guilty during the war i didnt implied it was before, though.

Oh well, i guess you're right. She chose to participate in the war, and afterwards she chose to stay in the military, in order to stay with Mustang. That's true, i mean i don't remember the manga well enough to know for sure but that sounds plausible.
Though in that case, wouldn't that make her better than the rest? The rest participated in the war for no personal reason, at least not known, whereas she did that out of love.
The power of her feelings led her to commit acts she herself found atrocious; leading her to consider herself unworthy of being happy. Isn't that a proof of her commitment to her true love, and makes a good point for her as a goof waifu?

As for happiness and Hughes, i would have agreed with you if he wasnt dead, to me the fact Arakawa chose to kill him, out of all the people, it has to be for symbolical purposes.

Probably. I mean, i can see how that would make sense, that the author makes a point with this death.
My point is, Hughes despite dieing, and potentially being used by the author as a mean to say "those who participated in the Ishbal war shall not reach happiness", he still was happy, he still made his family happy, he was still a great husbando. So why couldn't Riza be a great waifu as well?

 

[JellalF]

in all honesty everyone knows this is the real final match

 

[Erinyes]

@Takuan yeah indeed theres even more about her participation and her feelings towards Mustang, i didnt mentioned it but theres also her fathers researchs so she had already a certain bond with mustang before the war and she trusted him a lot thats probably why she decided to follow him.
yeah Fma characters are deep and not one-dimensional. Riza mustang, Marco and co, were unfortunately thrown on the wrong side of History, and they all decided to redeem their own way, Mustang by becoming fuhrer to change the country and so on...). Its not only them even Ed & Al , also Izumi stories are about sins and redemption. and the whole philosophy of the alchemy is about that : Equivalent exchange (of course its primarily about chemistry/physics, but its implicitly/symbolically about everything.

Characterization, story telling, and all symbolism, are what makes Fma such a great manga.

Yeah Olivier is awesome, i like Izumi and Lan fan too

My point is, Hughes despite dieing, and potentially being used by the author as a mean to say "those who participated in the Ishbal war shall not reach happiness", he still was happy, he still made his family happy, he was still a great husbando. So why couldn't Riza be a great waifu as well?

yeah agree, but he was happy for a very short time. I think indeed its symbolical, maybe the author wanted to "give a little redemption path" by granting him a short time happiness .
Btw, what do you thing abt Bradley ? he's genuinely in love with his wife and is acting as a good father too, while being a "bad guy", yeah that's tricky... considering what he did. Its really a hard question, some might see him as a great and caring husband.


.........................................................................................................................................................................................................
some kouka promotion art

 

[Arjuna]

Waifu qualities of Riza



She is loving














She is loyal

























She is devoutly loyal to her count

 

[Belserion]

Both campaigns have been really well done. Congrats to you both for reaching this point. My vote of course goes to Kouka. I really wanted her to win because imo she's the ultimate waifu, but it wasn't to be. Hopefully she takes the bronze.

 

[Takuan]

@Takuan yeah indeed theres even more about her participation and her feelings towards Mustang, i didnt mentioned it but theres also her fathers researchs so she had already a certain bond with mustang before the war and she trusted him a lot thats probably why she decided to follow him.
yeah Fma characters are deep and not one-dimensional. Riza mustang, Marco and co, were unfortunately thrown on the wrong side of History, and they all decided to redeem their own way, Mustang by becoming fuhrer to change the country and so on...). Its not only them even Ed & Al , also Izumi stories are about sins and redemption. and the whole philosophy of the alchemy is about that : Equivalent exchange (of course its primarily about chemistry/physics, but its implicitly/symbolically about everything.

Characterization, story telling, and all symbolism, are what makes Fma such a great manga.

Makes me want to read/watch it again xD

Yeah Olivier is awesome, i like Izumi and Lan fan too

I think Izumi is my favourite female FMA character. Never really cared about Lan Fan though, i don't know why. I much prefer Izumi, Riza and Oliver. In that order i think.

yeah agree, but he was happy for a very short time. I think indeed its symbolical, maybe the author wanted to "give a little redemption path" by granting him a short time happiness .

A very short time? It felt pretty long to me.
When did he get his family btw? I mean, did they get the child before the war or after? I don't remember that.
I think in a flashback we might see Hughes talking to Mustang about his family though, so he had his family already... Yeah, not that long in that case, you're right actually.

Btw, what do you thing abt Bradley ? he's genuinely in love with his wife and is acting as a good father too, while being a "bad guy", yeah that's tricky... considering what he did. Its really a hard question, some might see him as a great and caring husband.

Genuinely in love with his wife? Really?
Mmmh... Well here's the thing, i just realized i'm not talking about FMA from the beginning lol
I never watched or read FMA. I'm talking about FMA Brotherhood. I don't know what the differences are, or to which extent the two versions differ.
I'm telling that because i think Selim Bradley is a Homonculus only in Brotherhood? Correct me if i'm wrong.
Anyway, since i watched FMAB and Bradley's son is actually Pride, i never considered Bradley as a legit family guy. In my mind his family has always been a cover; i never really thought that he loved his wife for real, and his son was, well, Pride.
Like, he acts like a pretty good father but it's all a cover in the end; so in my mind it was just the same with the wife.
I don't know though, Bradley is pretty misleading. Personally i think Bradley, despite being more "attached" or used to humans than the other Homonculus, never loved his wife for real, at least not to the extent of being willing to stop his operation for her sake. But if i watched FMA i might be proven wrong.

 

[Asako]

Voted kouka

 

[Brandish μ]

Kouka.

 

[Erinyes]

Makes me want to read/watch it again xD



I think Izumi is my favourite female FMA character. Never really cared about Lan Fan though, i don't know why. I much prefer Izumi, Riza and Oliver. In that order i think.


A very short time? It felt pretty long to me.
When did he get his family btw? I mean, did they get the child before the war or after? I don't remember that.
I think in a flashback we might see Hughes talking to Mustang about his family though, so he had his family already... Yeah, not that long in that case, you're right actually.


Genuinely in love with his wife? Really?
Mmmh... Well here's the thing, i just realized i'm not talking about FMA from the beginning lol
I never watched or read FMA. I'm talking about FMA Brotherhood. I don't know what the differences are, or to which extent the two versions differ.
I'm telling that because i think Selim Bradley is a Homonculus only in Brotherhood? Correct me if i'm wrong.
Anyway, since i watched FMAB and Bradley's son is actually Pride, i never considered Bradley as a legit family guy. In my mind his family has always been a cover; i never really thought that he loved his wife for real, and his son was, well, Pride.
Like, he acts like a pretty good father but it's all a cover in the end; so in my mind it was just the same with the wife.
I don't know though, Bradley is pretty misleading. Personally i think Bradley, despite being more "attached" or used to humans than the other Homonculus, never loved his wife for real, at least not to the extent of being willing to stop his operation for her sake. But if i watched FMA i might be proven wrong.

well im not speaking of 1st anime adaptation, never saw it also its mainly filler. im refering on legit facts in the manga or 2009 anime
Bradley is a deeper character than the usual cliché of a mere vilain. He did actually care about his wife. and pride was attached to "his mother "too, even homonculi wanted a family.
He said a couple of times his wife was the only human he was really caring.

lazy to check everything just copying wiki :
Mrs. Bradley seems to be the only human that Wrath cares about at all, remarking to Hawkeye that taking her as his wife was the only thing in his life that wasn't planned.

• Pride also admits to having an affection for his "mother" after she shields his body from a runaway car, being amazed by the concept of a mother because he'd never had one before.
• Wrath left no final words for her, trusting she knew him well enough to not need them.

 

[Elusia]

Voting for Kouka as well