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Games Mafia Game 107 - ACNH: The ManHel Tale - Game End

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Farfalla

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Aight, here are the game infos (setup and actions):
IDAffiliationPrimary RoleSecondary RoleSanityPlayer
1TownDetectiveInsaneMadNat
2TownSpySaneBrandish
3TownDoctorSaneAsako
4TownBansheeGB
5TownNecromancerShad
6TownPsychiatristBaka Taichou
7TownProstituteEvil3ye
8TownBulletproofLambu
9TownMorticiandigital
10TownPsychiatristHolt
11TownProsecutorLady Pompom
12Third PartySanta ClausKat
13Town/MafiaPirateTraitorJames Rye
13Town/MafiaNobleTraitorCrescent
15MafiaMafia DetectiveSirSamuel
16MafiaStrongmanGrySun
17MafiaMafia EscortCopy Panda
18MafiaPirateMarmalade
GIFTS LIST

❄ Brewster's Gift "Drink it hot or give it up." (Hot Potato)
The Hot Potato explodes at the end of a day designated by the host before the start of the game, killing the player holding it. The holder of the Hot Potato doesn't know when it will explode, but he can pass it to another player at night, separately from any night ability he has. This passing can't be blocked. If the holder gets killed, the Potato explodes killing both the holder and the killer; if the holder is lynched, the Potato [dies with him].
❄ Kicks' Gift "You never know how things might turn out." (single-use Bar Keeper redirect)
One player ends up being the drunkest and uses his night action on a random player.
❄ CJ's Gift "A night cruise is a good way to catch night fish." (single-use Mafia Detective)
The Mafia Detective has the ability to investigate one player per Night and learn the player's Role. Only he is told the role of his target via PM. Whenever the Mafia Detective's investigation ability is performed, he cannot be chosen to go for a kill on the same night.
❄ Wisp's Gift "Tah-Dahh!" (this player's votes are worded as "Ho ho ho" during the next day)

❄ Jingle's Gift "Isn't this the best time of the year, kid?" Mandatory 5th Gift
(Santa Clause: this gift allows the game to go on. At the end of the game, Santa wins with the other winning party. Happy celebration ;)



Now first lemme thank @Erinyes for her massive participation in the game. At first, I got the November slot to host alone, and she asked me to join and I'm so happy she did! She's not only a very curious and interested person so we had a very nice and easy time discussing our ideas, but she also has the strength and endurance of a lion... I was often dead while we were hosting, but Erinchi followed everything and kept the game organized. She barely slept @.@ And that's a testimony I really needed to share with you all, 'cause her dedication and calm deserve lots of appreciation.

Also thanks @Hardy and @Vandred for double-checking the game mech (and in Poop's case, the comp as well) and giving us your honest thoughts, so we could try to present a game that would be fair and entertaining to people.

And finally, even tho some other points were addressed already, I'd like to thank all the players, from the heart. I know this game was too soon because of my availability due to local holidays, and I know you guys were tired - which for sure didn't improve during this time lol. So I really need to commend you all, because you guys were either putting in a lot of time and effort inside the game, analyzing and discussing nonstop, or in the deadpad - you guys also got no rest. As hosts, that's the biggest kind of feedback we could get: to have you guys really onboard. Some moves were questionable, but no one can't say any of those teams weren't trying... it's only natural that drained people will make some mistakes, so to me that's another sign of the praise you guys deserve.

Quick comments about the game that I've mentioned in the deadpad already: in general, the idea with the mech was to add a simple new function (and we tried to map beforehand the main game new considerations we'd need to have it in place) but that could allow a new set of strategical moves to be exploited - now I would reconsider the priority we used since we realize it would have been more adherent to people's preference. The game also had 2 Traitors 'cause Pirate is a VERY weak mafia that can suicide and lose the ability to kill later on, so we wanted to give them better odds (lemme say it one more time in here that the notion that means town had 2 extra people to lynch is wrong, first because town had 2 killing tools in the Prosecutor and the Banshee, and second because they don't need to eliminate unrecruited traitors to win). It had 2 Psys 'cause even tho we wanted mafia to have better chances to recruit, that didn't mean we wanted them to recruit BOTH, so town had more chances to find at least one on the other hand (even if one role would get erased eventually), and at the same time the role could cause some confusion that mafia could exploit. The Mortician came in place to trace stuff like Santa and fake claims/transfers regarding any role/action that got "buried" - imo it's more effective than the SM because it can target antitown and spot unknown stuff that could still be in-game; it was a late game resource that had good chances of being effective with the role transfer mech. The Necromancer was also in there for its recycling capabilities since we'd have roles being lost, and in this setup it would be less OP than it usually is, since his options would still be reduced. The Santa was there for extra fun, imo, since the role could still be used even if the OG player and their wincon was gone: two gifts - that we expected to be the last ones - were clear signs that there was a Santa in-game in case it would fly by too successfully - and even that was just to cause some ruckus since the last gift allowed the game to go on after Santa would win - which to me it's a needed measure so we won't have sudden major frustration with an unexpected game end (I do understand why the game usually has to end when Santa is in it, so people don't ignore the role, but in this case we saw an opportunity to play around that and fix the issue regarding that); Santa's other gifts were there to provide some extra spice but unfortunately, as you can see in the night actions, I made a mistake while processing GB's action with the Hot Potato. GB got blocked by Evil when he tried to pass it to James and I overlooked it that the passing can't be blocked. It would have been simple to fix it during the day by PMing the both of them if Bran didn't spy on GB and, coincidentally, Sam hadn't claimed the exact same action and outcome. After discussing with some people, we reached the conclusion that the attitude that would cause the least interference and damage to a bigger number of players would be to just remove the Hot Potato from the game and inform that to GB, which is what we did.

GG mafia, you fought the long battle and won! GG town, it's never easy to be on the more clueless side, trying to put pieces together. GG Santa cause Santa is always fun~
 

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am i am getting this correct:
if i die, i can chose whoever i trust to get my role? is it just after lynch or just after nightphase?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



yeah well i think i have a common role, it has 'positive' effects for town during night (i think so)
If the dead is lynched, the transaction happens at the end of the following night
If the dead is killed, it happens after the following day's lynch

Also that hint is a little too specific :notlikethis Well there's still some room for interpretation.


I have a few questions regarding these two points tho @Farfalla @Erinyes

Receiving a role from a different alignment will not affect your current one - additionally, a player cannot receive the ability to perform "faction kills" at night;
- Does this mean mafos can pass their roles back to Mafia after being lynched or killed, except stuff related to nightkills (Assassin, Janitor, etc)???

If so, its kinda crazy that stuff like Boss or Bomb can be passed back.

If by chance the role of the person that is dying is correctly guessed by their killers, then the role becomes unpassable and they die with the secondary "Obvious Fool".
- Can we guess the lynched role during the day so if we are right that transaction doesn't happen? Or is it an anti-town perk only?
 

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If the dead is lynched, the transaction happens at the end of the following night
If the dead is killed, it happens after the following day's lynch

Also that hint is a little too specific :notlikethis Well there's still some room for interpretation.
thanks,
and well i surely leave it with spice of interpretation, but i can leave it with a townie heart and conscience, whenever i get killed or lynched
:hi
 

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If the dead is lynched, the transaction happens at the end of the following night
If the dead is killed, it happens after the following day's lynch

Also that hint is a little too specific :notlikethis Well there's still some room for interpretation.


I have a few questions regarding these two points tho @Farfalla @Erinyes



- Does this mean mafos can pass their roles back to Mafia after being lynched or killed, except stuff related to nightkills (Assassin, Janitor, etc)???

If so, its kinda crazy that stuff like Boss or Bomb can be passed back.



- Can we guess the lynched role during the day so if we are right that transaction doesn't happen? Or is it an anti-town perk only?
I understood it as that townies cannot nightkill with a mafia role, but mafias can because they already have „the ability“ to do faction kills whereas town does not. Rules do kinda read like a YuGiOh card so I think they put good effort into making them self explanatory, kinda.
 

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I understood it as that townies cannot nightkill with a mafia role, but mafias can because they already have „the ability“ to do faction kills whereas town does not. Rules do kinda read like a YuGiOh card so I think they put good effort into making them self explanatory, kinda.
Wait that doesnt make sense, why would a dying Mafia pass their role to a Townie in the first place? It doesn't effect the Townie's original role according to the rules.

The way in which Town roles are passed is pretty easy to understand but the more I think about it its mafo's passes what I can't quite understand
 

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Wait that doesnt make sense, why would a dying Mafia pass their role to a Townie in the first place? It doesn't effect the Townie's original role according to the rules.

The way in which Town roles are passed is pretty easy to understand but the more I think about it its mafo's passes what I can't quite understand
well, aspecially at the beginning, we do not know who is who...or does Mafia always know each other?
i mean i can accidently trust the wrong person to get my role, and it can be mafia :gwah

oh please i like my role...could we hint not to give me a new role? bc my role could be important already?
 

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Wait that doesnt make sense, why would a dying Mafia pass their role to a Townie in the first place? It doesn't effect the Townie's original role according to the rules.

The way in which Town roles are passed is pretty easy to understand but the more I think about it its mafo's passes what I can't quite understand
After reading the rules again, I think it‘s because you can‘t keep your old role, so mafia could override a good town role. And if it‘s a good mafia role too hey can just kill that player at night and guess the role they gave?

Other than that I don‘t see any benefit in giving mafia role to town. I guess framing purposes too?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Tho I‘m not sure we should be openly strategizing for them lmao.
 

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@Farfalla @Erinyes

- If a Town sends their role to a Mafo, or a Mafo does the same to a Town, does the receiver carry the opposite alliance role in the background or is it discarded? Do they get to know they received it?
 

Farfalla

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- Does this mean mafos can pass their roles back to Mafia after being lynched or killed, except stuff related to nightkills (Assassin, Janitor, etc)???
Yeah, if a player is out they can pass their roles to other people - same team or not - unless they hit one of the circuntances specified in the rules for why they can't. The kill part is that the nature of killing is more related to the faction than the role, but the point is that in spite of if the role is about a killing action, the killing per se can't be transfered among factions.

Can we guess the lynched role during the day so if we are right that transaction doesn't happen? Or is it an anti-town perk only?
Yes, you can~

@James Rye sanities don't have to be guessed, it's the core role only.
 

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well, aspecially at the beginning, we do not know who is who...or does Mafia always know each other?
i mean i can accidently trust the wrong person to get my role, and it can be mafia :gwah

oh please i like my role...could we hint not to give me a new role? bc my role could be important already?
Mafia knows each other at start and their roles, so from D1 it‘s possible to spot 2 or more players playing „together“ in a sense.
 

James Rye

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I‘m always a good boy :hmph But also happen to be town as well.



I‘m being pretty straight forward though? :oh

It‘s confusing because of how the „guessing“ works, but not dwelling on that much. Odd that you‘re this informed on how a mafia mechanic works this soon.

Nah hinting always depends on the game type. Here I‘m not sure because unlike last many games there‘s no indication of how many vanillas we have and how many actual roles

I really fail to see why anyone but mafia cares whether mafia must guess sanities correctly. What is this James? :XD
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I think I‘m in favor of hinting after thinking about it some more. Odds they guess the role correctly when killing are miniscule via just a hint, unless people overhint.

I have a passive role.
Sure, you're always a good boi, even when you are Mafia/Lover/any other type of TP. xD

Nothing straight forward about being "unsure". We gotta be informed on how the mechanic works because this mechanic works in tandem with the Mafia. If we die, we can still save our role but Mafia can prevent it by guessing our role correctly, meaning the first couple nights they gonna fail for sure as there are too many possibilities and too little to go on with. If we know that sanity does play a role when guessing the role of the killed then Mafia has it more difficult and the good roles have a slightly higher chance or surviving into town hands than roles without sanity that can be guessed right away without a 50:50 chance. I say 50:50 because roles like naive and paranoid are "dead" roles that only exist to troll the townies who got them.

@Lambu At least with my hint we know that I stand firmly in the active group whereas with anyone claiming passive we know they will most of the time claim vanilla townie aka mafia scum trying to stay low and grab some roles of murdered townies by acting as potential target for them which is as good for Mafia as guessing the role correctly.
Active and passive already help a big deal early time, we can go more specific in the next few days.

Also I assume though I got no proof for that, that Mafia probably did not start with a MD this game since the whole mechanic is about guessing the role and not knowing the role to effectively kill it. Since we are 18 we probably got 4-5 Mafia depending on whenever Hosts added TP or recruit-able roles to the game. They likely got Escort, Boss, most likely not Janitor since guessing correctly is already a "role killer" in the sense that it has to leave the game. Clearly 1-2 Mafia member and perhaps a Mafia Rookie to upgrade for mid/late game or a Strongman depending on the blocking roles town owns.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

@James Rye sanities don't have to be guessed, it's the core role only.
Dang, that makes guessing much easier for Mafia then.
 

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Wait so we can guess when lynching too? How do we do that?
 

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well, aspecially at the beginning, we do not know who is who...or does Mafia always know each other?
i mean i can accidently trust the wrong person to get my role, and it can be mafia :gwah

oh please i like my role...could we hint not to give me a new role? bc my role could be important already?
Mafos always know all their partners at the beggining of the game, theres no way to send their role to a Townie accidentally.
Mafos could receive Town roles due to misplaced mistrust tho yeah, even if they cannot use it, I guess they could claim having it as a way to blend in, tricky.
 

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Also if we can guess on the lynched one's role, does it mean each of our guesses count or only the one that got the most support from town? If so will you guys check what our majority guess for said lynch role is?
 

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Nothing straight forward about being "unsure". We gotta be informed on how the mechanic works because this mechanic works in tandem with the Mafia. If we die, we can still save our role but Mafia can prevent it by guessing our role correctly, meaning the first couple nights they gonna fail for sure as there are too many possibilities and too little to go on with. If we know that sanity does play a role when guessing the role of the killed then Mafia has it more difficult and the good roles have a slightly higher chance or surviving into town hands than roles without sanity that can be guessed right away without a 50:50 chance. I say 50:50 because roles like naive and paranoid are "dead" roles that only exist to troll the townies who got them.
Straightforward as in, I don‘t hold back my thoughts. Not as in „I have clear ideas and oüinions about everything“. It‘s not really my style to only post when I settled my mind.

How does knowing how they guess at night help with any of what you said? Just weird to me because this hasn‘t crossed my mind at all, and even now that we know more about their kill guessing it doesn‘t change our approach whatsoever. You pretend like anyone will reveal Det before they know their sanity/have any results for this to matter.
 

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Yeah, if a player is out they can pass their roles to other people - same team or not - unless they hit one of the circuntances specified in the rules for why they can't. The kill part is that the nature of killing is more related to the faction than the role, but the point is that in spite of if the role is about a killing action, the killing per se can't be transfered among factions.
That last sentence wording made me think there's multiple killing parties :notlikethis

Yes, you can~
Soka, thank you, cacaww!!

That changes a lot of things. Do we vote guesses too or is it via pm and hosts account it separately?
 

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@Farfalla @Erinyes

- If a Town sends their role to a Mafo, or a Mafo does the same to a Town, does the receiver carry the opposite alliance role in the background or is it discarded? Do they get to know they received it?
" Receiving a role from a different alignment will not affect your current one "; if you get a role from a different faction, you can use its abilities that aren't killing related.
And yes you're informed that your role changed.
 

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You pretend like anyone will reveal Det before they know their sanity/have any results for this to matter.
Maybe they should, lol, I managed to stay alive way longer as early claimed Det than the actual one who waited for confirmation of his results. Sometimes you gotta play with Mafia's fears and their imaginations. XD
 

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Ok I'm done being lazy with the mechanic. Will go by it step by step.

🌠 Whenever a player leaves the game, they may select a living player to receive their primary role;
Passing the role is not mandatory. But cases where it's best to not do it are kinda rare and endgame-y.

🌠 The selection occurs in the phase that follows the one when the player dies;
Die D1, select a player N1.
Die N1, select a player D2.

🌠 At the end of the selection phase, their target will receive a message informing them they have a new role;
At start of D2, the player picked by our D1 lynched player will be notified.
At start of N2 the player picked by the N1 killed player is notified.

🌠 The transfer has priority 0 at night and, during the day, it happens after the lynch;
Transfering cannot be prevented via blocks.

🌠 The receiver cannot choose between keeping his/her current primary role or the transferred one - their former role will be discarded and the new one will take place immediately;
You always lose the role you had before, when receiving the new one.

🌠 If the receiver gets a role that could have generated previous results, those results won't come with it;
No info on how the previous holder used the role, with the exception of:

🌠 If the receiver gets a single-time use role that has been used before (applied to both active and passive roles), they will not get another chance to use it and the role will be transferred as vanilla (likewise, roles that have a limited >1 number of uses won't have those restored after the transfer, and the remaining amount will be informed);
You know if the role is usable and how many usages it has.

🌠 Receiving a role from a different alignment will not affect your current one - additionally, a player cannot receive the ability to perform "faction kills" at night;
You remain town if you get mafia role, and remain mafia if you get a town role.
You cannot kill with a mafia role even if the role allows killing(ex. Assassin).

🌠 If by chance the role of the person that is dying is correctly guessed by their killers, then the role becomes unpassable and they die with the secondary "Obvious Fool".
Killer can guess the role, and if guessed right the hosts flame the dead player and role is gone forever.

None of this really mentions how lynching and guessing works.
 
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