On Break One Piece Chapter 1114 Discussion

[DeadlyBeast]

A few points:

1.- The gorosei don't know what the broadcast will say. We have some context now of course but even a few minutes ago the gorosei had no idea of what vegapunk did or didn't know. Meanwhile the gorosei know the world's history and presumably how much harm this could cause them.

2.- The gorosei don't know luffy is the main character. Add to that, they have fought and presumably defeated nika before.

3.- The gorosei regard modern Ds as pale imitations that don't know the significance of their name. While they are definitely underestimating them, it's also fair to note that they defeated Ds almost definitively 800+ years ago.

4.- I would argue gorosei's moves upon arrival to the island were pretty damn good. Mars went after the signal. ethanjuro salvaged the pacifista program. Saturn is targeting robin, someone with the capacity to realize the full danger of the world's history becoming public. Peter and warcury are confronting luffy who got unexpected support from the giants.

5.- Acquiring and preserving the motherflame is probably the single most important goal the gorosei currently have.

Overall with the context the gorosei have I would argue they have acted pretty reasonably. They had clear goals upon arriving to the island and split their power so as to maximize the chance of getting everything.

I do think the Gorosei were acting very effectively when they arrived. They have been one of the most competent opponents the SHs have ever faced so do think they are solid. My small worry here is that they are slowly devolving into being less effective for plot reasons. Once the initial plan for Mars to stop the broadcast failed they have started prioritizing short term vs long term. Addressing your points:

1. Although they didn't know the exact contents of the broadcast, they did know one thing for sure - the contents could not contain any of the most important Void Century information that can only be found on Laughtale. That is the most dangerous information for them and why they don't want anyone finding One Piece.
2. They know Luffy is Nika, their mortal enemy. They went to great lengths to hide Nika's existence yet here they are not focusing on just wiping him out here and now. If Luffy dies now they win the Chess Match (Nika losing here is checkmate) even if they have to give up some significant pieces (VPs broadcast going out). Case in point defeating Nika in the past led to them ruling uninterrupted for 800 years!
3. You can say this about the Ds in general but Luffy is different. The moment he awakened his DF and became Nika he became as relevant as anyone can be to them. Heck even Imu knows that Luffy along with another D (Blackbeard) are extremely significant to the current problems they face.
4. Agree their initial moves were solid. My issue is once Mars failed and York had no more ideas on where the broadcast is coming from they should have re-evaluated priorities. They can't even know the broadcast originates from the island they are on so there is no point in dedicating so much of their energy on the broadcast when they can wipe out the SHs particularly Luffy & Robin and just win the game as whole. A dead Luffy & Robin is an absolute victory for them since no one left could be a credible threat in the same way Joyboy was in the past i.e. what are the chances Nika is awakened again anytime soon (took centuries for it to happen).
5. Yes the motherflame is important and they already have it in their possession. York is free and on their side, no one is going after the motherflame, and with the powerplant still around they can make more with York's help.

My point here is they could have 3 Gorosei focus on killing Nika outright in this battle, 1 Gorosei focus on killing Robin, and 1 Gorosei attempt to stop the transmission on the off chance it's coming from the island. In this scenario even if they fail on the transmission they'd win the overall war. But Oda instead is having them just leave the SHs be so now we will see the SHs including Robin board the ship and escape with Luffy following along somehow. It just feels like they are going from extremely competent villains to just whatever.

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2024, Original Post Date: May 10, 2024 ---

I'm assuming he gave them a prototype of the Motherflame that he purposefully made weaker or more disposable in some way, and they're counting on York to ensure they have access to the full version.

Could be the case. I'd wondered if the flame itself has been something that's been around since Void Century but not something they could use and that VP just found a way to take some of that energy and make it useable.

 

[kkck]

I do think the Gorosei were acting very effectively when they arrived. They have been one of the most competent opponents the SHs have ever faced so do think they are solid. My small worry here is that they are slowly devolving into being less effective for plot reasons. Once the initial plan for Mars to stop the broadcast failed they have started prioritizing short term vs long term. Addressing your points:

1. Although they didn't know the exact contents of the broadcast, they did know one thing for sure - the contents could not contain any of the most important Void Century information that can only be found on Laughtale. That is the most dangerous information for them and why they don't want anyone finding One Piece.
2. They know Luffy is Nika, their mortal enemy. They went to great lengths to hide Nika's existence yet here they are not focusing on just wiping him out here and now. If Luffy dies now they win the Chess Match (Nika losing here is checkmate) even if they have to give up some significant pieces (VPs broadcast going out). Case in point defeating Nika in the past led to them ruling uninterrupted for 800 years!
3. You can say this about the Ds in general but Luffy is different. The moment he awakened his DF and became Nika he became as relevant as anyone can be to them. Heck even Imu knows that Luffy along with another D (Blackbeard) are extremely significant to the current problems they face.
4. Agree their initial moves were solid. My issue is once Mars failed and York had no more ideas on where the broadcast is coming from they should have re-evaluated priorities. They can't even know the broadcast originates from the island they are on so there is no point in dedicating so much of their energy on the broadcast when they can wipe out the SHs particularly Luffy & Robin and just win the game as whole. A dead Luffy & Robin is an absolute victory for them since no one left could be a credible threat in the same way Joyboy was in the past i.e. what are the chances Nika is awakened again anytime soon (took centuries for it to happen).
5. Yes the motherflame is important and they already have it in their possession. York is free and on their side, no one is going after the motherflame, and with the powerplant still around they can make more with York's help.

My point here is they could have 3 Gorosei focus on killing Nika outright in this battle, 1 Gorosei focus on killing Robin, and 1 Gorosei attempt to stop the transmission on the off chance it's coming from the island. In this scenario even if they fail on the transmission they'd win the overall war. But Oda instead is having them just leave the SHs be so now we will see the SHs including Robin board the ship and escape with Luffy following along somehow. It just feels like they are going from extremely competent villains to just whatever.

1.-It's a pretty wild assumption that the most significant and troublesome history can only be found at laughtale and no one else. If that was the case then why would the gorosei bother exterminating anyone who investigates the void century? If the truth was impossible to find unless you reach laugh tale then half the plot in the story doesn't work.

2.- There's two gorosei currently engaged with luffy. That's seems like sufficient forces to deal with him. And if they had anyone else on luffy then they would have to give up either on nico robin, the pacifista or the signal/motherflame.

3.- I don't think imu or the gorosei know luffy is the main character. Luffy is without a doubt a thorn to them but they clearly have their own motives to prioritize the motherflame over eradicating luffy.

4.- I mean, it's clear they see whatever vegapunk could reveal as a huge threat. I don't think we know enough about their motives and goals to make the case that hunting down luffy should take priority over preventing god knows what of the void century from becoming public knowledge. I suppose they could realize later that this is the case but hindsight is 20/20..

5.- I mean, sure, but they just secured the motherflame.

I think you are simply underestimating the sheer risk the transmission possess. We'll see but right now there's no reason to conclude the transmission is not worth their attention. This could easily end up being a roger/WB like moment that rallies thousands or millions to sea. Joyboy being the first pirate is telling...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

1.-It's a pretty wild assumption that the most significant and troublesome history can only be found at laughtale and no one else. If that was the case then why would the gorosei bother exterminating anyone who investigates the void century? If the truth was impossible to find unless you reach laugh tale then half the plot in the story doesn't work.

Grossly inaccurate here.

You've misinterpreted the fact the Gorosei exterminate all investigators as meaning the whole truth can be found outside of Laughtale.

What's completely missed in your reasoning here is the reason they're attacking any one investigating the Void Century with the crumbs of information available is because it results in people going to Laughtale.
People learn little truths from the Poneglyphs outside Laughtale, and that leads them to Laughtale where the whole truth is learnt, and that's exactly what they don't want which is why the WG attacks all invesigators.

1. Just knowing about Nika means the DF will always be around in circulation which in itself is a problem, they hunted Who's who for 2 decades for simply possessing the knowledge of that name despite not really knowing if it was true or not.
2. They wiped out the Bucaneers and wanted them extinct because they know of the name Nika.
3. Just mentioning the name of the Ancient Kingdom was enough to warrant the death of Dr. Clover on the spot.

Just without going to Laughtale, we already have the problem that is Nika. We already have the problem of knowing that Ancient Weapons exist which Crocodile, Big Mom and Kaido have gone after, not to forget... Rocks.

What's really wild is questioning how the most significant history is not at Laughtale when we're told that going to Laughtale and learning the Void Century is going to initiate a world war against the WG as Whitebeard said.

 

[RaisinRisin]

I think you are simply underestimating the sheer risk the transmission possess. We'll see but right now there's no reason to conclude the transmission is not worth their attention. This could easily end up being a roger/WB like moment that rallies thousands or millions to sea. Joyboy being the first pirate is telling...

Although this message was recorded too early for Vegapunk to outright say Luffy is the new Joyboy, it could easily help a lot of people make the connection that might not have done so otherwise (just based on Luffy's wanted poster). There have been a lot of signs the Elders' first fear when it comes to Luffy is not even that he is Nika after all (just like they don't care about D people in the current day for the most part), but that the world recognize him as an embodiment of Nika/Joyboy. Obviously whatever he can do as Nika is the ultimate problem for them but their primary means of control seems to be about keeping people ignorant.

 

[kkck]

Although this message was recorded too early for Vegapunk to outright say Luffy is the new Joyboy, it could easily help a lot of people make the connection that might not have done so otherwise (just based on Luffy's wanted poster). There have been a lot of signs the Elders' first fear when it comes to Luffy is not even that he is Nika after all (just like they don't care about D people in the current day for the most part), but that the world recognize him as an embodiment of Nika/Joyboy. Obviously whatever he can do as Nika is the ultimate problem for them but their primary means of control seems to be about keeping people ignorant.

I think thematically it makes the most sense that the gorosei do not fear nika itself but rather luffy's ability to get people to his side. The gorosei regard humans as insects but a swarm is potentially dangerous...

 

[DeadlyBeast]

1.-It's a pretty wild assumption that the most significant and troublesome history can only be found at laughtale and no one else. If that was the case then why would the gorosei bother exterminating anyone who investigates the void century? If the truth was impossible to find unless you reach laugh tale then half the plot in the story doesn't work.

2.- There's two gorosei currently engaged with luffy. That's seems like sufficient forces to deal with him. And if they had anyone else on luffy then they would have to give up either on nico robin, the pacifista or the signal/motherflame.

3.- I don't think imu or the gorosei know luffy is the main character. Luffy is without a doubt a thorn to them but they clearly have their own motives to prioritize the motherflame over eradicating luffy.

4.- I mean, it's clear they see whatever vegapunk could reveal as a huge threat. I don't think we know enough about their motives and goals to make the case that hunting down luffy should take priority over preventing god knows what of the void century from becoming public knowledge. I suppose they could realize later that this is the case but hindsight is 20/20..

5.- I mean, sure, but they just secured the motherflame.

I think you are simply underestimating the sheer risk the transmission possess. We'll see but right now there's no reason to conclude the transmission is not worth their attention. This could easily end up being a roger/WB like moment that rallies thousands or millions to sea. Joyboy being the first pirate is telling...

1. Laughtale has the Rio Poneglyph which is the true history that they want hidden. Other information is important but no where near as threatening to them. In most cases other poneglyph point to the need to go to Laughtale. The fact (which you pointed out) that the Gorosei have gone to the lengths of wiping people out entirely due to connection to Void Century is itself evidence that the knowledge of the Void Century is that threatening to them. Unless I'm missing something its clear the knowledge of Void Century is going to be in the Rio Poneglyh.
2. There are two of them engaged against Luffy but he's clearly still alive and fighting okay. Killing Luffy should be the top priority as he is the King Piece in this game of chess. As for the other things, Pacifista are dealt with already, the motherflame is already safe and in their possession, York is free and on their side. There are only 3 things that matter right now - Luffy/Nika, Robin, and the broadcast. It won't take more than one of them to kill Robin even if she has help so they don't have to give anything up to add 3rd Gorosei on Luffy fight. If Luffy dies here they win no matter what else happens.
3. This has nothing to do with main character knowledge. They know he is Nika! He is the most credible threat to their power and is not something they have faced since Void Century. Wiping him out is the most important thing even without them breaking the 4th wall and realizing his the main character of the story. Interestingly enough even in this very chapter VP says history is a tale and the protagonist of the tale he is about to tell is Joyboy (the previous Nika) so to some degree even the internal characters are pointing to his"main character" status.
4. Yes what he can reveal is a threat. I'm not discounting that. I'm saying in the overall Chess Game there is an even bigger threat and that threat happens to already be on this island. There is no way they don't already know that getting rid of Luffy is the most important thing - Nika is such a threat they have spent insane amount of resources to make sure he never returns (erasing a DF from history and a god from people's knowledge is not an easy thing). So why go after the Rook when you can take out the Queen and King?
5. What do you mean they just secured it? There were 0 other parties going after that room. The SHs don't care about the room, the Satellites are not going to the room so as long as they (the Gorosei) don't destroy it the room is fine. It would be sitting there just fine even if Saturn never went into the room. Saturn could instead focused on killing Robin.

 

[kg21tmac11]

I read the Arabic translation, and I like it better than the English one. This isn't a language preference but rather a translation preference. The Arabic translation is closer in translation to the fan translation provided earlier, while the English translation by TCB doesn't feel right. For example, when York was running, she said in the TCB translation, "Damn it, Stella. Did he really spill the beans on everything!" while in the Arabic translation, she said, "Until when will you continue speaking, Stella? Do you intend to expose everything?" These are very different translations in which the TCB translation conveys the idea that Stella exposed everything (which doesn't conform to the events in the story), whereas the Arabic one conveys the idea that Stella is in the process of exposing everything, which conforms to the event in the story.

As an Arab, we literally have one word that needed to be translated into three in English. I agree it literally changes how it is being spoken in that scenario. Great find my guy!

 

[Black Hawk]

Still doesn’t make sense to me how Vegapunk can replicate the Mother Flame weapon, but not the robot’s energy.

I guess its already happend once, i say the mera mera no Mi is a replica or a try to recreate Motherflame or be a part of it.
It looks like some Fruits never get in the Hand, of the Marine or the WG.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2024, Original Post Date: May 11, 2024 ---

1. Laughtale has the Rio Poneglyph which is the true history that they want hidden. Other information is important but no where near as threatening to them. In most cases other poneglyph point to the need to go to Laughtale. The fact (which you pointed out) that the Gorosei have gone to the lengths of wiping people out entirely due to connection to Void Century is itself evidence that the knowledge of the Void Century is that threatening to them. Unless I'm missing something its clear the knowledge of Void Century is going to be in the Rio Poneglyh.

One open Question about that. When the WG is so afraid of reaching the History at Laughtale and the Rio Poneglyph.
Why isnt Imu destroying the Island, cant tell me the WG doesnt know where the Island is.
This Part is quiet interisting, why they unable to destroy the History and the Laughtale?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

One open Question about that. When the WG is so afraid of reaching the History at Laughtale and the Rio Poneglyph.
Why isnt Imu destroying the Island, cant tell me the WG doesnt know where the Island is.
This Part is quiet interisting, why they unable to destroy the History and the Laughtale?

No one has been to Laughtale in 800 years, they don't know where it is.

The moment the Poneglyphs were scattered all over the world 800 years ago, they were always compromised. Can't destroy something you don't have access to. Furthermore, for whatever reason they say the Poneglyphs are indestructible too.

 

[Bandit99]

No one has been to Laughtale in 800 years, they don't know where it is.

The moment the Poneglyphs were scattered all over the world 800 years ago, they were always compromised. Can't destroy something you don't have access to. Furthermore, for whatever reason they say the Poneglyphs are indestructible too.

Huh? Roger got to Laughtale...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Huh? Roger got to Laughtale...

I meant no one but Roger and Joyboy.
The Gorosei haven;t, so they can't destroy Laughtale.

 

[Bandit99]

I meant no one but Roger and Joyboy.
The Gorosei haven;t, so they can't destroy Laughtale.

Ohhh

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Also the A&Mu lable on the Mother Flame’s container caught my attention. One way to read it is as Atomu ( the Japanese word for and is to). So it could be a hint that the Mother Flame might generate power by utilizing nuclear fissure and fusion. This also goes well with Vegapuk‘s Einstein theme imo.

 

[Australopithecus]

As an Arab, we literally have one word that needed to be translated into three in English. I agree it literally changes how it is being spoken in that scenario. Great find my guy!

I know what you're talking about. For example, ضَرَبْتُهُ [ḍarabtuhu] is one word, and it translates into the English sentence "I hit him." And depending on the chakl (the diacritics put above and/or under the letters of the word to indicate short vowels), the word can change into "She hit him or his hit." Arabic is truly a beautiful language.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2024, Original Post Date: May 11, 2024 ---

I think the reason why the 20 kings chose to live above the Red Line is to avoid the risk of sinking into the sea with the other islands. It's like a Noah's Ark up there.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2024 ---

If VP succeeds in telling the story of the Blank Century to the world and exposes the WG as an evil entity, the world will rebel because their survival is at stake here. I do not want this story to get interrupted. I have been waiting for this moment for several years.

I like Oda's selection of title for this chapter. It was a fitting choice to draw an analogy with the story of Icarus, who flew too high with wings made of wax and came too close to the sun, causing his wings to melt and resulting in his fall to the sea.

 

[RaisinRisin]

I think thematically it makes the most sense that the gorosei do not fear nika itself but rather luffy's ability to get people to his side. The gorosei regard humans as insects but a swarm is potentially dangerous...

Yes, although I'm not ultimately decided if the Elders fear the Nika ability or the large numbers he can rally more, I'm sure if they were to hypothetically kill Luffy now, but the message still goes out and causes a lot of people to realize he was the second coming of Joyboy, there'd be a big global reaction that would be problematic for them. In chapter 1111, Saturn (or another) asks Dorry and Broggy who Luffy is to them and they call him a friend. An Elder then replies they have to kill Luffy before they call him "something else." Of course they want him dead, but it's pretty clear there that there will be a power shift of some kind if that information about who Luffy is spreads, and if it renews the following for Nika it could become a problem for them even after Luffy's death. (They were very spooked by Luffy being together with giants, just in and of itself.)

Also the A&Mu lable on the Mother Flame’s container caught my attention. One way to read it is as Atomu ( the Japanese word for and is to). So it could be a hint that the Mother Flame might generate power by utilizing nuclear fissure and fusion. This also goes well with Vegapuk‘s Einstein theme imo.

Yup, it's got to be some in-world analogue to nuclear fusion. From the wiki:

The Mother Flame is produced by a power plant (融合炉（パワープラント）, pawā puranto?, literally meaning "fusion reactor") on Egghead and only Vegapunk knows how to create it, meaning that the Five Elders and Imu cannot use it freely yet and must rely on York for further supply.[1][3]

Also, according to DawnDusk on Youtube, the term written with the phonetic reading "power plant," or 融合炉, isn't even a word by itself in Japanese. It's what's left from nuclear fusion reactor (核融合炉) after removing nucleus/nuclear (核).

 

[kg21tmac11]

I know what you're talking about. For example, ضَرَبْتُهُ [ḍarabtuhu] is one word, and it translates into the English sentence "I hit him." And depending on the chakl (the diacritics put above and/or under the letters of the word to indicate short vowels), the word can change into "She hit him or his hit." Arabic is truly a beautiful language.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2024, Original Post Date: May 11, 2024 ---

I think the reason why the 20 kings chose to live above the Red Line is to avoid the risk of sinking into the sea with the other islands. It's like a Noah's Ark up there.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2024 ---

If VP succeeds in telling the story of the Blank Century to the world and exposes the WG as an evil entity, the world will rebel because their survival is at stake here. I do not want this story to get interrupted. I have been waiting for this moment for several years.

I like Oda's selection of title for this chapter. It was a fitting choice to draw an analogy with the story of Icarus, who flew too high with wings made of wax and came too close to the sun, causing his wings to melt and resulting in his fall to the sea.

For those who don’t know what ‘chakl’ is, for my French speaking friends, it is like the ‘l’accent aigu’ where the letter/word pronunciation literally changes pending on where you put it.

 

[gao_dargon]

So, with Nika coming from Elbaf, is Nika the One Piece verse equivalent of Baldr?

 

[Australopithecus]

Guys, I wanted to say this, but I forgot. Why doesn't Luffy use CoC in his attacks? Remember that when he was fighting Kaido, and he was using it, it created a sort of bubble between you and your opponent. That way, he wouldn't have to touch Warcury and get hurt. What the hell is Oda doing? I love One Piece and Oda, but I have to say that he is not handling the haki matter well.

 

[gao_dargon]

Guys, I wanted to say this, but I forgot. Why doesn't Luffy use CoC in his attacks? Remember that when he was fighting Kaido, and he was using it, it created a sort of bubble between you and your opponent. That way, he wouldn't have to touch Warcury and get hurt. What the hell is Oda doing? I love One Piece and Oda, but I have to say that he is not handling the haki matter well.

Yeah haki kinda went out the window when gear 5 came into the picture, that being said, that "bubble" you're taking about only happens if the opponent is ALSO imbuing his attack/defence with CoC and they clash.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Guys, I wanted to say this, but I forgot. Why doesn't Luffy use CoC in his attacks? Remember that when he was fighting Kaido, and he was using it, it created a sort of bubble between you and your opponent. That way, he wouldn't have to touch Warcury and get hurt. What the hell is Oda doing? I love One Piece and Oda, but I have to say that he is not handling the haki matter well.

The way I understand it, there's advanced Armament and then it can be combined with Advanced King's Haki.
Advanced Haki control means the damage will enter the opponent's body whether they get hit on contact or without contact.
Advanced Haki attacks means the attack is exponentially stronger than just regular Armament, but contact or non-contact probably gives off the same damage except 1 doesn't have to make contact assuming the opponent's body is toxic.

If we assume he is using Advanced Armament at the very least, whether he uses the non-contact method or contact method which he is using, Warcury's flesh is too sturdy - the non-contact attack will equally be harmless.
If he uses King's Haki, he will probably begin to exhaust himself too quickly and be unable to fight/defend for long. I'd imagine he would do more damage, but it won't be much.
He may do some damage but it probably won't be enough to incapacitate him. I think the solution here is his Haki needs to get stronger in general. He's only juts learnt it, so I assume there is still room to grow.