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Predictions Origin and future of Devil Fruits

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Devil fruits contain the souls of people from the Ancient Kingdom who were captured and imprisoned in trees and used to grow fruit, stealing their eternal essence and weaponizing it- primarily by the people and descendants of the people who genocided them. The series is going to end with Luffy- Nika- liberating the imprisoned souls and ending the devil fruit cycle altogether.
 

McNuss

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Not bad at all. Sounds a lot like what I've been saying.
 

kkck

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I am all for the origin of devil fruits being a tree (either the adam or the eve tree, perhaps both). But I don't see them collecting souls and "trapping" them in fruits. If devil fruits are like vegapunk described then they can't be "evil". They are not necessarily good of course, they could just be what they are and that's it. Add to that, only zoan fruits have wills of any kind, this does not apply to paramecia or logia. We have seen multiple paramecia awakenings, there are zero instances of someone being taken over by the fruit's nature or will, let alone even a hint of that being a possibility.

I could see the trees sort of collecting dreams to produce fruits over long periods of time... and perhaps in some instances the will (not soul) of some folk and producing mythical zoans. It's hard to see mythical zoans and not see a connection to deities in OP.

Another bit that I've been thinking about is that if devil fruits are the result of dreams (specific process explanation pending) then it could also include nightmares. Something which vegapunk, ever the optimist, overlooked (or perhaps didn't care to make a distinction for).
 

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Pretty sure Vegapunk said DFs are created from the dreams and wishes of people which explains why the WG didn't the name NIKA to be known, thus changing the name of the Nika fruit to Gomu Gomu which would wipe Nika as a DF out of existence.
Furthermore, Kuma's brains were wiped too, he also knew the name Nika meaning if he spread the idea to others, the DF would always exist.
Then we have Who's who, he got told about Nika and the person who told him got killed, and Who's who fled and escaped once he knew he was going to be killed.
Vegapunk also said as long as people wish for Nika, the DF will always exist.

Not really buying this theory, or even why we theorise when the Manga has already given us an answer for where DFs come from.
 

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Pretty sure Vegapunk said DFs are created from the dreams and wishes of people which explains why the WG didn't the name NIKA to be known, thus changing the name of the Nika fruit to Gomu Gomu which would wipe Nika as a DF out of existence.
Furthermore, Kuma's brains were wiped too, he also knew the name Nika meaning if he spread the idea to others, the DF would always exist.
Then we have Who's who, he got told about Nika and the person who told him got killed, and Who's who fled and escaped once he knew he was going to be killed.
Vegapunk also said as long as people wish for Nika, the DF will always exist.

Not really buying this theory, or even why we theorise when the Manga has already given us an answer for where DFs come from.
Because the manga is still very vague about what actually happened and what the mechanism was. Lord Rayleigh had a similar criticism and this was his post and my reply:

Vegapunk claimed that Devil Fruits are inherited Dreams from ancient people thanks to Ancient Kingdom technology. DFs were likely called Dream Fruits by the AK during the Void Century, and WG must have relabeled them Devil Fruits as it was Joy Boy’s dream and project to let anyone fulfill his dream with the Dream Fruit creation process. The 20 kingdoms must have opposed this project to keep control over their subjects. After AK was defeated, I think WG took over what was left of AK technology and brought it to Marigeoise - this is the National Treasure Doflamingo spoke about. Then Tenryubitos were about to create their own Devil Fruits which are not referenced either in ancient DF encyclopedia. These WG DFs are a manifestation of the will of Tenryubito to control the world and this is how demonic zoans came to existence - Tenryubito were human former kings after all. I can’t see a past where AK friends would dream to create demonic zoans but I can certainly see a past where Tenryubito would create such DF powers considering their evil minds and their views about the natural order hierarchy.
Me:
Vegapunk was speculating, and I think there's more to it than "dreams -> ??? -> devil fruit" the same way "lineage factor = ??? = DNA". He was shocked that S-Snake retained Boa's love for Luffy- likewise S-Hawk and S-Shark retaining their adulthood fighting skills. I think there's something similar happening where peoples' dreams is a part of the equation, but there's a big mechanism missing to explain how those dreams were converted into devil fruits. My idea bridges the gap and isn't mutually exclusive to Vegapunk's speculation.
That exchange is what made me make this thread. I feel like we only know half the story of what devil fruits are, at most. Vegapunk did a whole lot of telling us/ confirming things we already knew.
 

I Am Atomic

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I am not buying into origin of Devil Fruits = dream or at least I am not happy with it. For example, who decided to dream about sugar's fruit? Turn people into toys + place contract + amnesia + maintain youth. That dream must have been very very specific 😮💨
 

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@zetsu banned this is pretty unlikely. The ancient kingdom had a database on fruits. VP confirmed it when he said the gomu gomu no me wasn’t in the AK database on fruits. It’s unlikely the ancient kingdom out there own souls into the fruits
 

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@zetsu banned this is pretty unlikely. The ancient kingdom had a database on fruits. VP confirmed it when he said the gomu gomu no me wasn’t in the AK database on fruits. It’s unlikely the ancient kingdom out there own souls into the fruits
When was it said it was the AK's database? All we know is that there's a book out there that is presumably the same one BB and Sanji had.
 

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Because the manga is still very vague about what actually happened and what the mechanism was. Lord Rayleigh had a similar criticism and this was his post and my reply:
It's not vague at all if you read it properly, it's taken out of context.

People read the "theory" phrase rather than reading the entirety of what Vegapunk said in its entirety, and misunderstand what he said.

Vegapunk literally said wishes are where Devil fruits come from which is why the sea (mother of the earth) punishes DF users. Do we call the fact he said DF users are punished by the sea "a theory"? No.

What Vegapunk said was a theory was the concept of a god and the only reason he brought up god was because Sanji and Usopp said Luffy's not a god, he's just an idiot.

End of the day, Vegapunk said "as long as people wish for Nika, the fruit WILL always exist" - that's a definite statement, no a maybe statement. It's really not vague at all.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

The series is going to end with Luffy- Nika- liberating the imprisoned souls and ending the devil fruit cycle altogether.
Devil fruits aren't a problem, the issue is SLAVERY which is what Nika/Joyboy are trying to end.

Even if there were this supposed souls in the Devil fruits... and then what problem does "liberating these several hundred souls" achieve in the scheme of things? Nothing, slavery still exists, the Gorosei still exist with their dictatorship, it doesn't solve anything, it's not a problem to begin with.
 

john ellis

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@zetsu banned so it’s confirmed the gomu gomu no me is in the WG book, it’s just missing from the AK database. The chapters luffy is fighting lucci in g5. Vp comments on his weird form and the fact that gomu gomu no me is missing from the AK data base
 

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@zetsu banned so it’s confirmed the gomu gomu no me is in the WG book, it’s just missing from the AK database. The chapters luffy is fighting lucci in g5. Vp comments on his weird form and the fact that gomu gomu no me is missing from the AK data base
Its missing from the DF encyclopedia which is a book presumably printed with WG approval. It seems all that happened is WG had the name changed in an edition of this book centuries ago and all future editions kept this change while older editions with the original Nika name were destroyed.
 

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Its missing from the DF encyclopedia which is a book presumably printed with WG approval. It seems all that happened is WG had the name changed in an edition of this book centuries ago and all future editions kept this change while older editions with the original Nika name were destroyed.
AK, WG, or a third party like a private citizen- any of them are equally likely.
 

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While I don't think Vegapunk may be completely right in his theory, I think he's going to be shown to be on the right path in regards to Devil Fruits.

There is a piece missing, but I don't think it involves the souls of others. At least, I don't think they were imprisoned in trees. If we get more info that implies DFs are a form of imprisonment or control, I think I would start leaning towards that path, but at this moment, it seems like DFs may have been another way to pass down one's will, similar to the Will of D. I will say, the whole Soul thing would make sense as to how DFs manifest elsewhere in the world, though that would imply that Paramecia and Logia have wills of their own as well and, so far, it only seems like Zoans have that trait. That would also open up another can of worms on how Brook's Fruit and Big Mom's Fruit could potential function.

Personally, I'm thinking a piece of technology allowed people to tweak existing Lineage Factors, thus the various wacky abilities, and then distill them and turn them to Fruits. Science brought those desires into existence, which would allow Vegapunk's romantic theory to be true in a sense, while also being incorrect.

I think Lineage Factors are just going to be revealed to be much more powerful than people assume and the essence they possess goes deeper than DNA. So...thinking about it now, just the whole Soul idea wrapped in a different package.

We also still got aliens mixed in too, so maybe they play a role somewhere down the line.
 

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I feel like people have taken vegapunk's explanation out of context. The explanation is more of the what and not the how. There's probably an in story mechanism by which what vegapunk describes takes place. Vegapunk in the end has made devil fruits and collected exactly zero dreams for them. No one is staring into the void really hard and dreaming fruits into existence. But people's dreams (and nightmares?) probably do factor into how devil fruits come into being.
 

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I feel like people have taken vegapunk's explanation out of context. The explanation is more of the what and not the how. There's probably an in story mechanism by which what vegapunk describes takes place. Vegapunk in the end has made devil fruits and collected exactly zero dreams for them. No one is staring into the void really hard and dreaming fruits into existence. But people's dreams (and nightmares?) probably do factor into how devil fruits come into being.
Yes, but the thing is, why so many Devil Fruits? Does everyone had a Devil Fruit making machine in their homes back then?

Going by Vegapunk's idea of connecting everyone's minds together, I think that exactly what the Ancient Kingdom had, and that's how there are so many fruits.
 

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Yes, but the thing is, why so many Devil Fruits? Does everyone had a Devil Fruit making machine in their homes back then?

Going by Vegapunk's idea of connecting everyone's minds together, I think that exactly what the Ancient Kingdom had, and that's how there are so many fruits.
The second bit is what I had in mind. The process by which dreams are gathered is collective which could also explain how deities and demons come to have their respective fruits.
 

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I am not buying into origin of Devil Fruits = dream or at least I am not happy with it. For example, who decided to dream about sugar's fruit? Turn people into toys + place contract + amnesia + maintain youth. That dream must have been very very specific 😮💨
My theory is that there are 2 generations of DFs
  • A first massive generation created by AK with pure intention and which were known as Dream Fruits - basically positive individual human dreams
  • A second limited generation created after 20 kingdoms brought remnants of AK technology to Marigeoise (National Treasure Doflamingo mentioned in Impel Down) - basically evil Tenryubito dreams
The second generation of DFs were created by the WG which explained why demonic zoans and Sugar-like fruits came to existence - they represent the dreams of Tenryubito to control and conquer the world.

Dream Fruits were renamed Devil Fruits by WG since it is the technology of the "devil" AK - let’s remember Robin was named "Devil Child" because she could read AK text.
 
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My hypothesis in a nut shell has always been that haki and DFs are one interconnected power system with the collective haki of masses of people forming and continually fueling DFs. The fact that haki gives people all these super powers and for some reason is able to effect DF users made me think the two are connected. OP has always been about the WILL of things both living and non living, and how Wills can be passed on. Haki being a manifestation of this and knowing that all people technically have it made me think its the perfect in world natural explanation. Definitely could also be that AK created DFs using this same base energy by concentrating the Will of masses of people with tech to form DFs and from there on people continued dreams/desire continued the reincarnation cycle via collective haki.
 
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