Discussion Over-hyped magic

[Laboon]

You do realize that macro has less feats than Jellal's bind snake right? Jellal's bind snake has actually been shown to work against Erza, and Erza is on Laxus' level. Now how many of you would consider Jellal oneshotting Laxus with bind snake to be a reasonable prediction of how a fight between the 2 would go down?

It just proves my point. Mashima revived 400-chapter spell and placed it on a high tier.
Could he have done this before? Jellal faced other strong opponents and didn't even think about using it.
He only remembers these spells when it is favorable to the script.

 

[Plutogrim]

If Mest magic work on Brandish, then I don't see why Macro wouldn't work on Erza.

 

[Laboon]

Law isn't worth using against any of her opponents.
Erza's katanas hit harder than nakagami.
Brandish has feats of shrinking Dimaria and organs before. She's never shrunk a city though.
Dimaria's age seal failed not for a lack of trying. She simply got smashed by people who can move through it.
Jacob can't kill anyone without transport, invisible or not.

None of those 5 examples are very relevant, but exactly my point with Irene and Lucy transforming people. If Irene is getting her meteor smashed and getting cut out of her dragon form, do you really think that she could have simply transformed Erza into a rat? Gemini has the ability to turn people into fish. Mirajane was obviously distracted by Gemini-Lisanna. So what exactly was stopping Gemini from turning Mirajane into a fish had the dragon eaters not interfered?

This is exactly why it's more reasonable to assume that abilities have limitations, and that the characters are well aware of limitations when they don't use them in a fight. The alternative is that every character in the series is simply stupid.

Law isn't worth against anyone, but Laxus already faced some difficult situations and did not use it
Erza's Katana has greater destructive power. But Nakagami is HAX. It would counter any spell of an opponent like Laxus (Even Eileen)
Brandish has these feats but never used them offensively. I wonder why????
The Age Seal failed against E.N.D and Mashima couldn't even explain it in the afterwords. He just said: "because was E.N.D.". Nor him knows the weakness of the spell
Jacob could have ended the war by infiltrating the FT and capturing Mavis without anyone even realize. But that would not move the story.
Citing an example from Lucy vs Mirajane. Why do you think Mirajane didn't end the fight in an attack??? she was playing chapters with Virgo.
Does this inconsistency diminish Satan Soul other feats???
Why didn't Mirajane used Alegria against Skullion and Gray but used against weaker opponents??? Is Alegria weaker than Satan Soul?

All of these that I mentioned are examples of situations created by Mashima to move the script. Situations that don't diminish the potential of these spells.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2020 ---

And that spell isn't macro.

The point is that bind snake has better showings than macro, and everybody still has the sense not to hype Jellal to the absurd point where he would no-diff a Laxus tier. With Mirajane's macro, that limitation goes right out the window.

Im not hyping Mirajane above her level. The point here is that I can prove that Macro worked on opponents with greater magical power and you cannot prove otherwise.

 

[Axiomus]

Law isn't worth against anyone, but Laxus already faced some difficult situations and did not use it
Erza's Katana has greater destructive power. But Nakagami is HAX. It would counter any spell of an opponent like Laxus (Even Eileen)
Brandish has these feats but never used them offensively. I wonder why????
The Age Seal failed against E.N.D and Mashima couldn't even explain it in the afterwords. He just said: "because was E.N.D.". Nor him knows the weakness of the spell
Jacob could have ended the war by infiltrating the FT and capturing Mavis without anyone even realize. But that would not move the story.
Citing an example from Lucy vs Mirajane. Why do you think Mirajane didn't end the fight in an attack??? she was playing chapters with Virgo.
Does this inconsistency diminish Satan Soul other feats???
Why didn't Mirajane used Alegria against Skullion and Gray but used against weaker opponents??? Is Alegria weaker than Satan Soul?

All of these that I mentioned are examples of situations created by Mashima to move the script. Situations that don't diminish the potential of these spells.

• Law can't take out any Spriggans and is useless against anyone he doesn't consider a true enemy. So when exactly could Laxus have used it?
• So Erza choosing to roll with her katanas says a lot, doesn't it?
• Brandish has feats. Macro doesn't.
• He did explain it. In the actual manga. It was because he had more power than a god. Or because of END's power. Either way, Dimaria has feats. Macro doesn't.
• How would Jacob capture Mavis when he doesn't know where her body is stored? The whole reason he showed himself was to interrogate.

Mirajane did attack Lucy with Satan Soul. Sure, she was playing with Loke and Virgo...but you hadn't answered my question: What is stopping Gemini from transforming Mirajane into a fish?

I never said Alegria is weaker than her other Satan Souls. I don't see why this would matter either.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2020 ---

Im not hyping Mirajane above her level. The point here is that I can prove that Macro worked on opponents with greater magical power and you cannot prove otherwise.

Not really. You can't prove macro works on anyone stronger than pre-timeskip Erza, because that's the best feat it has. The best you can do is point towards other "hax abilities" that have worked on characters, and then try to associate macro with it. Which is a flawed argument, because all it does is prove that those abilities are better than macro.

I can prove that macro hasn't been a factor in any of Mirajane's recent fights, and that she's been heavily injured/beaten by opponents that were weaker than Erza.

 

[Crimson Ice]

If Mest magic work on Brandish, then I don't see why Macro wouldn't work on Erza.

Because all hax isn’t the same. Macro couldn’t even take out all of Wahl’s bots.

 

[Laboon]

• Law can't take out any Spriggans and is useless against anyone he doesn't consider a true enemy. So when exactly could Laxus have used it?
• So Erza choosing to roll with her katanas says a lot, doesn't it?
• Brandish has feats. Macro doesn't.
• He did explain it. In the actual manga. It was because he had more power than a god. Or because of END's power. Either way, Dimaria has feats. Macro doesn't.
• How would Jacob capture Mavis when he doesn't know where her body is stored? The whole reason he showed himself was to interrogate.

Mirajane did attack. Sure, she was playing with Loke and Virgo...but you hadn't answered my question. What is stopping Gemini from transforming Mirajane into a fish?

I never said Alegria is weaker than her other Satan Souls.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2020 ---

Laxus almost died and saw his friends die against Hades, Tempester, Alvarez and he didn't even think about Fairy Law.
Erza never seems to make very consistent choices. Since she currently doesn't even wear armor
Brandish has feats never used in combat. Macro has feats in combat.
Even this explanation in the current manga doesn't say much. "more power" can have several interpretations, either by quantity or property.
About Jacob I had forgotten

And are you really comparing Gemini to Macro? LOL Gemini since the beginning always had a limitation in magic power, Macro doesn't.

You didn't said it but I'm questioning. You're saying that: "did not use Macro = does not work" right?
so if she did not use Alegria = Satan Soul is stronger even the Manga making it clear that it is not??

Not really. You can't prove macro works on anyone stronger than pre-timeskip Erza. The best you can do is point towards other hax abilities that have worked on characters, and then try to associate macro with it.

You are right on that point. But I'm also right to say that Macro worked on someone who had more magical power at the time.
Which proves that it is not the amount of magical power that defines who is affected. As some here are trying to prove.

 

[Axiomus]

Laxus almost died and saw his friends die against Hades, Tempester, Alvarez and he didn't even think about Fairy Law.
Erza never seems to make very consistent choices. Since she currently doesn't even wear armor
Brandish has feats never used in combat. Macro has feats in combat.
Even this explanation in the current manga doesn't say much. "more power" can have several interpretations, either by quantity or property.
About Jacob I had forgotten

And are you really comparing Gemini to Macro? LOL Gemini since the beginning always had a limitation in magic power, Macro doesn't.

You didn't said it but I'm questioning. You're saying that: "did not use Macro = does not work" right?
so if she did not use Alegria = Satan Soul is stronger even the Manga making it clear that it is not??


You are right on that point. But I'm also right to say that Macro worked on someone who had more magical power at the time.
Which proves that it is not the amount of magical power that defines who is affected. As some here are trying to prove.

Because Laxus wanted to give his power to Natsu. He didn't need law against Tempester, and nor would it have helped. Tempester blew himself up into poisonous particles, and Laxus wanted to save everyone so he inhaled it. Like I said, law wouldn't have taken out any of the Spriggans. The reason Laxus isn't using Law is simply that he has attacks that can do more damage. Same with Erza. Nakagami might be able to cancel magic, but it's unlikely to deal enough damage to beat some of her stronger opponents (like Laxus and Irene). She might negate the magic of a few attacks, but her katanas still offer more attack power. They're not avoiding these abilities because of plot, but simply because they have better options. Which they used.

Brandish has the feats of shrinking Dimaria and Natsu's organs. Nobody is arguing against her magic working on people of Natsu or Dimaria's level. Macro doesn't have feats of working on anyone stronger than pre-timeskip Erza. You guys are saying that it will work on people far stronger than pre-timeskip Erza. More than that, you guys are saying that it will allow Mirajane to defeat opponents far stronger than ones that she has recently lost to.

Gemini's ability to transform into other people is stated to be limited by how much magic it has. It's ability to transform others into fish is not, though I happen to believe those stronger than Gemini can resist it. You apparently think that just because something isn't stated to have a limit, that means it doesn't have one. So what is stopping Gemini from transforming Mirajane?

I don't understand your point about Alegria. Why would saying "macro hasn't been a factor in any of Mirajane's fights recently, so it's unlikely to be a factor against stronger opponents" imply that "Satan Soul is stronger than Alegria"? And why would this matter?

It proves that macro can work as someone as strong as pre-timeskip Erza. It doesn't prove that macro can work on everyone regardless of power-level.

 

[Orion]

@Axiomus this is you before beginning a debate

 

[grey matter]

It just proves my point. Mashima revived 400-chapter spell and placed it on a high tier.
Could he have done this before? Jellal faced other strong opponents and didn't even think about using it.
He only remembers these spells when it is favorable to the script.

Who? The only one is August, and the guy straight up nullifies that magic. And Acnologia eats that magic. There are no other stronger foes that he has faced.
Also, Erza was off guard both times he used it on her. We don't even know if Jellal can use than in an actual fight, when opponents are on guard.

If Mest magic work on Brandish, then I don't see why Macro wouldn't work on Erza.

Mest caught her off guard. Used it on her when she was unsuspecting, and thought of him as not a threat.

Because Laxus wanted to give his power to Natsu. He didn't need law against Tempester, and nor would it have helped. Tempester blew himself up into poisonous particles, and Laxus wanted to save everyone so he inhaled it. Like I said, law wouldn't have taken out any of the Spriggans. The reason Laxus isn't using Law is simply that he has attacks that can do more damage. Same with Erza. Nakagami might be able to cancel magic, but it's unlikely to deal enough damage to beat some of her stronger opponents (like Laxus and Irene). She might negate the magic of a few attacks, but her katanas still offer more attack power. They're not avoiding these abilities because of plot, but simply because they have better options. Which they used.

Brandish has the feats of shrinking Dimaria and Natsu's organs. Nobody is arguing against her magic working on people of Natsu or Dimaria's level. Macro doesn't have feats of working on anyone stronger than pre-timeskip Erza. You guys are saying that it will work on people far stronger than pre-timeskip Erza. More than that, you guys are saying that it will allow Mirajane to defeat opponents far stronger than ones that she has recently lost to.

Gemini's ability to transform into other people is stated to be limited by how much magic it has. It's ability to transform others into fish is not, though I happen to believe those stronger than Gemini can resist it. You apparently think that just because something isn't stated to have a limit, that means it doesn't have one. So what is stopping Gemini from transforming Mirajane?

I don't understand your point about Alegria. Why would saying "macro hasn't been a factor in any of Mirajane's fights recently, so it's unlikely to be a factor against stronger opponents" imply that "Satan Soul is stronger than Alegria"? And why would this matter?

It proves that macro can work as someone as strong as pre-timeskip Erza. It doesn't prove that macro can work on everyone regardless of power-level.

Just on the bold part. Do you think her magic would work on powered up Natsu (say in FDK mode)? I mean, it failed on powered up Neinhart, so why would it work on Natsu?
It worked on Natsu only when he was either incapacitated or when he was in his base and caught off guard (unsuspecting)

 

[Axiomus]

Just on the bold part. Do you think her magic would work on powered up Natsu (say in FDK mode)? I mean, it failed on powered up Neinhart, so why would it work on Natsu?
It worked on Natsu only when he was either incapacitated or when he was in his base and caught off guard (unsuspecting)

Can't say for certain. Probably not.

 

[Seven777]

In most situations Nakagami isn't all that useful. Nullifying magic is good for AoE or hax, but in any other situation simply dodging would be the far smarter choice. Benizakura and it's variations are the more powerful and practical weapon, which is why Erza uses it in all her most serious fights, no special abilities or defense, just pure attack power.

Also Brandish's Command T is overrated. She's not organ busting anyone in a head on confrontation, catching Natsu off guard impresses me as much as Mest catching Brandish off guard. Same goes for Macro.

 

[AmitDS]

In Tartaros, Seilah macroed Erza only while being in her back and surprising her out of the blue. It may have have been different if Erza was aware that a foe was coming. And nous, Seilah was not completely out of magic and Erza fine, they both just underwent fight (and for those that will argue that Seilah had been koed which means she was in worst condition, being downed by a shot in the back doesnt mean you lost your magic).

Anyway the best feat macro has is that Seilah managed to macro Erza while Erza didnt even know there were opponents in her vicinity.

And Erza and Seilah were not even that far in strength at the time, they were in the same tier (Seilah low diffed Mira).

To put it in a nutshell, yes Macro as other hax can probably work on stronger opponents, but in the case of Macro and some hax (Mest) the only way it can affect stronger opponents is while they are unaware.

Ps: Just look at WW: hax has its limits, she cant whiteout a sleeping Aldoron, she has to remove his power or make him accept it

Seilah used macro on Erza when she was in her base form and said base form was actually equal to BSS Mirajane. So yeah she was on the same tier as Erza but it wasn't the form of Seilah which "low diffed" Mira. Etherious Seilah and Etherious Kyoka are were beyond Erza and Mirajane.

My thoughts on this: Macro could work on Erza but Erza could resist and break out moments later, given that she's on a certain level. If that fails then her Pof should work

 

[Cosmicstar]

When it comes to Macro if it did have a limitation(Which I do think it does) I would think it wouldn't be due to powerlevel but rather how one processes the command given. So much wiggle room with most commands that against an opponent familiar with such magic, it would be rendered unreliable.

Command says stop breathing but the command does not include when to stop breathing or for how long. One could stop breathing for 2 seconds and the command would be fulfilled.

Command says stab yourself. It does not include how deep or where or even with what. So someone could give themselves a minor poke and the command would be fulfilled.


Also as far as to why Lucy didn't transform the Strauss siblings into Fish is simply because they are familiar enough with transformation magic to turn themselves back.

 

[Mirage]

PL doesn't directly equate to MP. MP plays a part in PL, but it's not PL itself.

It's crazy how you guys just can't understand that macro simply does not have the feats to even control anyone relevant. You don't prove what isn't there, you prove what IS there. We have macro feats, so that's what we go by.

You Mira fans argue in a backwards fashion.

 

[Ramen]

PL doesn't directly equate to MP. MP plays a part in PL, but it's not PL itself.

It's crazy how you guys just can't understand that macro simply does not have the feats to even control anyone relevant. You don't prove what isn't there, you prove what IS there. We have macro feats, so that's what we go by.

You Mira fans argue in a backwards fashion.

Damn you want all the smoke lol. Preach tho

 

[Kiki]

CSK and its nonexistent CSK stardress

 

[Star Frost]

Gemini has the ability to turn people into fish. Mirajane was obviously distracted by Gemini-Lisanna. So what exactly was stopping Gemini from turning Mirajane into a fish had the dragon eaters not interfered?

Would turning Mirajane into a fish work like that when she does know transformation magic too?

 

[Axiomus]

Would turning Mirajane into a fish work like that when she does know transformation magic too?

I don't believe that Lucy can forcibly turn people stronger into fish in the first place.

Mirajane can turn herself back into a human once she's transformed, but knowing transformation magic shouldn't stop Gemini from transforming you. She's not August, where she can negate the magic instantly. Really even August was caught off guard by Gildart's disassembly magic and took some amount of time before reforming himself. In the time that Mirajane is still a fish, they could simply step on her or something.

 

[kian]

In the time that Mirajane is still a fish, they could simply step on her or something.

Does transformation magic affect durability?

 

[Axiomus]

Does transformation magic affect durability?

Yes it does. We've seen this with Irene.