Fantasy Pirates vs admirals

[john ellis]

Saw a meme post on Reddit decided to balance it out and make it fair

team one

prime rodger, prime beard, g5 luffy, Oden, zoro, sanji

team two

the 5 admirals, prime Garp, prime sengoku

who wins assuming they all know how each other fight. The admirals have more fighters because well… yes they need it.

 

[grey matter]

What's with this matchup lol, marines win this easily.

Zoro and Sanji bring down the pirates, they are not strong enough to compete at the level of the battle here.
Zoro can only fight at top tier level within a time frame of 10 mins, and becomes useless afterwards.
Sanji is around the ballpark of guys like Marco and King.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Replace zoro and sanji with kaido and big mom

 

[WILDCARD 1 7]

Replace zoro and sanji with kaido and big mom

And Oden with prime Rayleigh.

 

[john ellis]

Marco and king can easily stall an admiral for long enough. You have prime Rodger and prime bears on the pirates team for Christ sake. Zoro and sanji can atleast stall one admiral for Roger and white beard to do massive damage.

Rodger and white beard and probably 2 vs 3 most of the team leaving everyone else to 1 vs 1. Luffy easily beats any admiral besides maybe magma dude. And oden probably beats gravity dude. Like the new admirals are certainly not great feat wise. Certainly within zoro and odens tier. Oden is low to slightly below yonko tier as is.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 1, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 1, 2023 ---

What's with this matchup lol, marines win this easily.

Zoro and Sanji bring down the pirates, they are not strong enough to compete at the level of the battle here.
Zoro can only fight at top tier level within a time frame of 10 mins, and becomes useless afterwards.
Sanji is around the ballpark of guys like Marco and King.

The marines only have 1 person in Rodger or WB tier and that’s highly problematic for them. And sanji and zoro could probably take the new admiral to high dif or stall them out long enough. So can oden. Obviously I can’t put entirely wins on the pirate side. Like already you have near gurantee wins with Rodger, WB and luffy. At worst Garp ties with either WB or Rodger leaving luffy, and WB/Rodger to take the rest. Rodger/WB can probably take a free second win before being high damage range. Oden/zoro extreme/high diff the newer admirals or beat them. The admirals might win against 3 of the pirate team but they’re in much worse shape and they still have to take down luffy and WB/Roger even if it’s 3 vs 2

 

[kkck]

I am a bit of the idea that admirals aren't quite at the yonko level. Probably just short but can hold their own. Zoro doesn't have the haki for yonko level combat just yet and sanji's haki abilities are mostly unspecific in the manga. I don't like either if their chances against admiral or yonko yet. Prime garp and sengoku should be straight up yonko level. IMO zoro and sanji drag the first team down and cause costs them their chance at a victory.

 

[john ellis]

I am a bit of the idea that admirals aren't quite at the yonko level. Probably just short but can hold their own. Zoro doesn't have the haki for yonko level combat just yet and sanji's haki abilities are mostly unspecific in the manga. I don't like either if their chances against admiral or yonko yet. Prime garp and sengoku should be straight up yonko level. IMO zoro and sanji drag the first team down and cause costs them their chance at a victory.

Zoro literally semi blocked a combined yonko attack and has Haki strong enough to damage a yonko. I’m not saying he’s yonko level, he honestly lacks the defense and stamina. But his attack power is certainly atleast low yonko level. I also agree yonko’s are slightly stronger than admirals. zoro and sanji are below admiral level sure, but so are all the admirals compared to the yonko’s, if I replace zoro and sanji with BM and kaido it’s a clear stomp for the pirates. Sanji has good defense and stamina since wano easily enough to stall out the admirals for long enough for his team to win there battles. Zoro’s attack power would leave an admiral in bad shape.

 

[kkck]

Zoro literally semi blocked a combined yonko attack and has Haki strong enough to damage a yonko. I’m not saying he’s yonko level, he honestly lacks the defense and stamina. But his attack power is certainly atleast low yonko level. I also agree yonko’s are slightly stronger than admirals. zoro and sanji are below admiral level sure, but so are all the admirals compared to the yonko’s, if I replace zoro and sanji with BM and kaido it’s a clear stomp for the pirates. Sanji has good defense and stamina since wano easily enough to stall out the admirals for long enough for his team to win there battles. Zoro’s attack power would leave an admiral in bad shape.

I'm not really convinced that sanji at this point can stall an admiral. The scabbards are a fairly large group with the implication that some of them at least are strong enough to contend with kaido's calamities and they were schooled by aramaki. Sanji hasn't been shown as someone that is above calamities... With zoro it's easy to make that case since he defeated the strongest calamity. Zoro's showing is a fair bit superior to sanji's just in general and his haki should be a step above at least. If sanji falls too early the situation snowballs against the group in general pretty fast.

 

[john ellis]

I'm not really convinced that sanji at this point can stall an admiral. The scabbards are a fairly large group with the implication that some of them at least are strong enough to contend with kaido's calamities and they were schooled by aramaki. Sanji hasn't been shown as someone that is above calamities... With zoro it's easy to make that case since he defeated the strongest calamity. Zoro's showing is a fair bit superior to sanji's just in general and his haki should be a step above at least. If sanji falls too early the situation snowballs against the group in general pretty fast.

I mean green bull also got his body destroyed by momo in that fight. Even if he’s naturally weak to fire, which is weird because he captured king, but sanji had lunarian fire abilities. That should at least surpass momo’s fire abilities. Lunarian defense seems to punch above its weight anyway. To the point I agree sanji Haki is much worse then zoro’s but zoro is also just a human.

 

[kkck]

I mean green bull also got his body destroyed by momo in that fight. Even if he’s naturally weak to fire, which is weird because he captured king, but sanji had lunarian fire abilities. That should at least surpass momo’s fire abilities. Lunarian defense seems to punch above its weight anyway. To the point I agree sanji Haki is much worse then zoro’s but zoro is also just a human.

Aramaki was also revealed to not have taken damage from momo's attack even if most of the forest was destroyed. He also used a fire resistant forest before that... No idea of how sanji's fire holds up against the dragon fruit's or what the scabbards can do. Or even how king's fire holds up to kaido's fire.

If the fight hinges on sanji specifically fighting aramaki to abuse a potential weakness to fire then it's still not a good scenario. What if it's the other admirals or pirates?

I also don't think sanji has lunarian abilities. Even if judge took lunarian dna to develop sanji's powers he simply works way too differently from them. Sanji doesn't have a defense or attack mode to switch between and if anything his exoskeleton plays a part in sanji's improved offensive capacity.

 

[john ellis]

Aramaki was also revealed to not have taken damage from momo's attack even if most of the forest was destroyed. He also used a fire resistant forest before that... No idea of how sanji's fire holds up against the dragon fruit's or what the scabbards can do. Or even how king's fire holds up to kaido's fire.

If the fight hinges on sanji specifically fighting aramaki to abuse a potential weakness to fire then it's still not a good scenario. What if it's the other admirals or pirates?

I also don't think sanji has lunarian abilities. Even if judge took lunarian dna to develop sanji's powers he simply works way too differently from them. Sanji doesn't have a defense or attack mode to switch between and if anything his exoskeleton plays a part in sanji's improved offensive capacity.

O while it wasn’t stated, because I think open discussion is good. I think the newer admirals are slightly below the OG. So I wouldn’t put zoro and sanji against anyone but the new admirals. You’re welcome to argue otherwise of how you think the Mu should go. But putting zoro against the swordsmen seems natural. I also think I could argue zoro has a chance of beating the swordsmen as he had to atleasts be a step below Mihawk and zoro isn’t too many steps below mihawk currently Infact he stalemated s-hawk. S-hawk is frankly probably admiral level even if it’s not confirmed.

given mihawks title of marine hunter. And the fact one of the warlords was given the title for defeating an admiral. With mihawk being the only warlord who is capable of taking an admiral. I’d like to assume mihawk had already defeated an admiral and that’s why his bounty is so high

 

[kkck]

O while it wasn’t stated, because I think open discussion is good. I think the newer admirals are slightly below the OG. So I wouldn’t put zoro and sanji against anyone but the new admirals. You’re welcome to argue otherwise of how you think the Mu should go. But putting zoro against the swordsmen seems natural. I also think I could argue zoro has a chance of beating the swordsmen as he had to atleasts be a step below Mihawk and zoro isn’t too many steps below mihawk currently Infact he stalemated s-hawk. S-hawk is frankly probably admiral level even if it’s not confirmed.

given mihawks title of marine hunter. And the fact one of the warlords was given the title for defeating an admiral. With mihawk being the only warlord who is capable of taking an admiral. I’d like to assume mihawk had already defeated an admiral and that’s why his bounty is so high

Not sure if the new admirals are supposed to be on par with the older ones. I suppose it tracks they could be stronger than 2 years ago, specially akainu in a having risen to fleet admiral level type deal, but the new admirals have shown to be monsters. Aramaki had an edge over the scabbards and at least several of them are more than capable of tangling with calamities.. Isho's meteors are absurd as well. Sanji still seems closer to the scabbards than he is to admirals. None of his feats really suggest admiral level, I don't see him lasting particularly long against aramaki or isho.

When was it said a shichibukai defeated an admiral?

 

[john ellis]

Not sure if the new admirals are supposed to be on par with the older ones. I suppose it tracks they could be stronger than 2 years ago, specially akainu in a having risen to fleet admiral level type deal, but the new admirals have shown to be monsters. Aramaki had an edge over the scabbards and at least several of them are more than capable of tangling with calamities.. Isho's meteors are absurd as well. Sanji still seems closer to the scabbards than he is to admirals. None of his feats really suggest admiral level, I don't see him lasting particularly long against aramaki or isho.

When was it said a shichibukai defeated an admiral?

Movie cannon, z said he was defeated by a warlord. Z is partially cannon. Maybe not entirely the movies plot is cannon, historically there had be different admirals around 10-20 years ago. Before the OG admirals took the roll. So it makes sense time wise with mihawk and the when the OG admirals became admirals. I imagine it went something like this, z was defeated, sengoku was promoted and Someone either left or was killed. And I can’t imagine another Admiral being defeated so.

 

[kkck]

Movie cannon, z said he was defeated by a warlord. Z is partially cannon. Maybe not entirely the movies plot is cannon, historically there had be different admirals around 10-20 years ago. Before the OG admirals took the roll. So it makes sense time wise with mihawk and the when the OG admirals became admirals. I imagine it went something like this, z was defeated, sengoku was promoted and Someone either left or was killed. And I can’t imagine another Admiral being defeated so.

Ah, well, movies aren't relevant to the manga (nor have I bothered watching them). We don't know what the admiral situation was back in garp's age. We know sengoku was an admiral but we don't know who else had the rank at the time.

 

[john ellis]

Ah, well, movies aren't relevant to the manga (nor have I bothered watching them). We don't know what the admiral situation was back in garp's age. We know sengoku was an admiral but we don't know who else had the rank at the time.

They tend to be partially cannon the characters exist, in cannon it’s just I don’t think the movie plots happen canonically. Anyways let’s just see how this developed with the manga next week I assume we’ll get some of the kizaru vs luffy fight

 

[kkck]

They tend to be partially cannon the characters exist, in cannon it’s just I don’t think the movie plots happen canonically. Anyways let’s just see how this developed with the manga next week I assume we’ll get some of the kizaru vs luffy fight

Some movie characters, like shiki, are canon because they are directly referenced in the manga but afaik that's not the case for zephir.