Discussion Ranking of U17 World Cup captains

[mathematicianrcg]

This will be interesting. Let's rank All RELEVANT U17 World Cup Captains from Strongest to Weakest. We kinda saw them all already with the exception of Antonio Medanore. But I think we can safely Power Scale him as good as Volk.

1. Byodoin (Japan)
2. Medanore (Spain)
3. Volk (Germany)
4. Ralph (USA)
5. Amadeus (Switzerland)
6. Camus (France)
7. Zeus (Greece)

Hear Me out. 1-3 are Interchangeable. But I put Byodoin at 1 because he defeated Volk fair and square. And we know Volk and Medanore are Relative. However Medanore can convince me otherwise when he plays. I think he will prove me wrong. But for now, I slide him second. And yes, I expect him to be stronger than Volk. Maybe even over Byodoin. (Which will mean Tokugawa will be super strong too but that is for another thread)

Ralph should not be underestimated. He was the only one to be able to make Top Ego Centric USA Players play as a team. He also managed to beat Amadeus (who btw is always mentioned by Byodoin along with Medanore and Volk). He was also able to
beat Ryoga 6-1 in one set. And manage to keep up and barely lose 6-7 in second set. (Before losing in 3rd set thru consume)

Amadeus is a Pro that always mentioned alongside Byodoin, Volk, and Medanore. He is the Best Player in Switzerland which is stated to have #1 overall strength in terms of quantity of high tier players.

Camus, I was higher than him. But knowing that Duke could have beat, or have a legit chance of beating him kinda make him fall a bit imo. With all due respect to Duke, I dont think he is same tier as Ralph and Amadeus.

So, by Transitive and Equality Property. If Camus= Duke. And Amadeus/Ralph > Duke. Then Amadeus/Ralph> Camus.

Note: I think Camus have more potential to improve more though. I mean he doesnt reach his ceiling yet.

Lastly, Zeus. He is strong. But as we saw. He is just same tier as Tanegashima, Bismarck, and maybe even Seda. (Based on their encounter). He is Strong. Just not Super Strong like the names above him in this list.

Do you guys agree?

 

[Ganonslayer101]

1. Medanore
2. Volk - Byoudin
3. Ralph
4. Amadeus
5. Zeus
6. Camus

Medanore's two personalities open a lot of possibilities for what he can do. Also since Tokugawa's end goal is to conquer the world with kindness, but also he has to prove he's overcome Byoudin so Medanore has to surpass him.

I rank Volk and Byoudin equally, imagining a set where Byoudin has his evolved Pirate and his improved Mental vs Volk's tornado leads me to believe it could go either way.

Ralph seems like a tier below these 3 and i struggle to see his "can't be scored on the same way twice" being able to overcome the vast quantity World Techniques or Volk's timeloop

I was originally going to put Amadeus higher than Ralph, but also he lost so he has to go below. Still very strong and implied to be at least as strong as pre-evolved Byoudin.

I don't think Zeus' mysterious ability to control pace should be underestimated. He always has the momentum and he only lost to the bottle cap trick because it completely throws control away from anyone.

Camus suffers from not really being used. Even when he gets used by Niou, the focus is on the Howling with Duke which doesn't help Camus in singles. His heart aura may provide an undetermined buff but even that isn't said if i remember correctly. Overall, it's just not fair to tier him because all we know is that Duke stood a reasonable chance of beating him and that means little because Duke is hard to tier himself.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

1. Medanore
2. Volk - Byoudin
3. Ralph
4. Amadeus
5. Zeus
6. Camus

Medanore's two personalities open a lot of possibilities for what he can do. Also since Tokugawa's end goal is to conquer the world with kindness, but also he has to prove he's overcome Byoudin so Medanore has to surpass him.

I rank Volk and Byoudin equally, imagining a set where Byoudin has his evolved Pirate and his improved Mental vs Volk's tornado leads me to believe it could go either way.

Ralph seems like a tier below these 3 and i struggle to see his "can't be scored on the same way twice" being able to overcome the vast quantity World Techniques or Volk's timeloop

I was originally going to put Amadeus higher than Ralph, but also he lost so he has to go below. Still very strong and implied to be at least as strong as pre-evolved Byoudin.

I don't think Zeus' mysterious ability to control pace should be underestimated. He always has the momentum and he only lost to the bottle cap trick because it completely throws control away from anyone.

Camus suffers from not really being used. Even when he gets used by Niou, the focus is on the Howling with Duke which doesn't help Camus in singles. His heart aura may provide an undetermined buff but even that isn't said if i remember correctly. Overall, it's just not fair to tier him because all we know is that Duke stood a reasonable chance of beating him and that means little because Duke is hard to tier himself.

Oh yeah. I think Medanore will show that he is even stronger than Volk and Byodoin. I just need to wait for him to do so though.

But Medanore's biggest Feat so far even if he didnt play a single game yet is that somehow "HE IS IMMUNE OR CAN RESIST/COUNTER RYOGA'S CONSUME". He is even Ryoga's Practice Partner. And Remember Even Byodoin Is not immune to Consume. He needed to use his hand!!!
Maybe him being 2 Different People has something to do with it. He is also a
"Genius Maverick"

Agreed with you on Byodoin and Volk as Same Tier and level.

Ralph and Amadeus kinda close too. They are probably As strong if not Stronger than Pre Evolve Byodoin. (Remember Pre Evolved Byodoin Lost to Duke and Oni)

I still think Camus > Zeus though. Though it will be a long match.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

Obviously I can't verify and this is all speculative, but I'm pretty sure Medanore is immune to Ryoga because of his two personalities. Whenever Ryoga tries to return the ball and consume him, Medanore swaps to the other negating it.
Also I think that's why he's the Genius Maverick. He interchanges 2 strong, but wildly different styles.

TBF Byo lost to Duke after a roof collapsed on him so hard to judge. And we know Kijin Oni can beat Pre-Pirate Byo, but we also know Byo is stronger by the time Tokugawa came to the camp. Is that when Byo has the first Pirate, or after it evolves against Amadeus.

I would put Amadeus and Ralph above Byoudin prior to his 2nd evolution against Volk.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Obviously I can't verify and this is all speculative, but I'm pretty sure Medanore is immune to Ryoga because of his two personalities. Whenever Ryoga tries to return the ball and consume him, Medanore swaps to the other negating it.
Also I think that's why he's the Genius Maverick. He interchanges 2 strong, but wildly different styles.

TBF Byo lost to Duke after a roof collapsed on him so hard to judge. And we know Kijin Oni can beat Pre-Pirate Byo, but we also know Byo is stronger by the time Tokugawa came to the camp. Is that when Byo has the first Pirate, or after it evolves against Amadeus.

I would put Amadeus and Ralph above Byoudin prior to his 2nd evolution against Volk.

Yeah. I wonder what Medanore's Techniques will be to Measure up to:
Byodoin's World Techniques and Eight Consciousness. And Volk's Infinite Loop, Whirlpool, and Volknado.

I am surprise we are both high on Ralph despite him not being a Pro too. We are basically implying he is the next strongest Captain after the Big 3. (Volk, Medanore, Byodoin).
But of course, his feats are too great to ignore. Beat a Pro in Amadeus. And able to take 1 set from Ryoga with a score of 6-1.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2023 ---

1. Medanore
2. Volk - Byoudin
3. Ralph
4. Amadeus
5. Zeus
6. Camus

Medanore's two personalities open a lot of possibilities for what he can do. Also since Tokugawa's end goal is to conquer the world with kindness, but also he has to prove he's overcome Byoudin so Medanore has to surpass him.

I rank Volk and Byoudin equally, imagining a set where Byoudin has his evolved Pirate and his improved Mental vs Volk's tornado leads me to believe it could go either way.

Ralph seems like a tier below these 3 and i struggle to see his "can't be scored on the same way twice" being able to overcome the vast quantity World Techniques or Volk's timeloop

I was originally going to put Amadeus higher than Ralph, but also he lost so he has to go below. Still very strong and implied to be at least as strong as pre-evolved Byoudin.

I don't think Zeus' mysterious ability to control pace should be underestimated. He always has the momentum and he only lost to the bottle cap trick because it completely throws control away from anyone.

Camus suffers from not really being used. Even when he gets used by Niou, the focus is on the Howling with Duke which doesn't help Camus in singles. His heart aura may provide an undetermined buff but even that isn't said if i remember correctly. Overall, it's just not fair to tier him because all we know is that Duke stood a reasonable chance of beating him and that means little because Duke is hard to tier himself.

I should have List Skills of each player.

Medanore - ??? Two Personalities. And Can Counter Consume

Volk - Volknado, Infinite Loop, Whirlpool

Byodoin - World Techniques, Pirate, Eight Consciousness

Ralph - Making His Weakness as His Strength

Amadeus - Darkness Aura, Darkness Shot

Camus - Heart Of Tennis

Zeus - Strong Aura. Can Control Momentum and Pace of the game.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2023 ---

I wanna see your opinion on these @Hardy

You are like the new Kaoz here. Lol

 

[Hardy]

It took Bertie a single game to fully adapt to Zeus whereas he only figured out Camus after losing 2 and being down 0-30... I think this (and the fact that Camus was always seen as a top player whereas we barely head anything of Zeus) directly ranks them. Copy Noah also got 2 games but this was because Bertie had no data and, based on Duke's comment, they kept their serve comfortably.

Tier 1: Byoudouin, Medanore, Volk.

Tier 2: Amadeus, Camus, Ralph.

Tier 3: Zeus.

(Alphabetical order within tiers).

Looks fine to me, with matches going 50/50 ish between same tier players.

Amadeus was kinda unfortunate to play someone that directly countered his attacking style, and even then Ralph barely edged him.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

It took Bertie a single game to fully adapt to Zeus whereas he only figured out Camus after losing 2 and being down 0-30... I think this (and the fact that Camus was always seen as a top player whereas we barely head anything of Zeus) directly ranks them. Copy Noah also got 2 games but this was because Bertie had no data and, based on Duke's comment, they kept their serve comfortably.

Tier 1: Byoudouin, Medanore, Volk.

Tier 2: Amadeus, Camus, Ralph.

Tier 3: Zeus.

(Alphabetical order within tiers).

Looks fine to me, with matches going 50/50 ish between same tier players.

Amadeus was kinda unfortunate to play someone that directly countered his attacking style, and even then Ralph barely edged him.

Interesting.

Do you think Ultimate Quality QP and Bismarck are as Strong as in Tier 2 or Tier 3?

Sucks that we dont know who is USA Second Best Player. I think it kinda implied its Alan since he is Second in Command. And he is the one in S2 to Fight Peter.

 

[Hardy]

Actually my order is wrong.

Zeus copy-> Breaks serve and gets broken, completely figured out after a game?
Noah copy-> Breaks serve twice and gets broken twice. Completely figured out after 3 games? Duke comments Germany still does well despite of no data.
Camus copy-> Breaks serve twice (?) and gets broken twice (?). Completely figured out after 3 games and 2 points.

So I can't really say Camus' illusion did better than Noah's copy but it certainly did better than Zeus'.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Actually my order is wrong.

Zeus copy-> Breaks serve and gets broken, completely figured out after a game?
Noah copy-> Breaks serve twice and gets broken twice. Completely figured out after 3 games? Duke comments Germany still does well despite of no data.
Camus copy-> Breaks serve twice (?) and gets broken twice (?). Completely figured out after 3 games and 2 points.

So I can't really say Camus' illusion did better than Noah's copy but it certainly did better than Zeus'.

How much percentage do we think Niou's Copy compared to original though?

We saw how much Stronger Real Byodoin compared to Niou's Copy. Is Niou's Copy even at 50%? (It cannot use Eight Consciousness )

So, I am thinking if Original Noah, Camus, and Zeus are significantly stronger than Niou's Copy.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2023 ---

But anyway.

I agree that we can only evaluate Camus thru Nious Copy.

I think he is stronger than Zeus.

Noah. Idk. I assume Noah is stronger than JJ. Idk how to scale that. We just know JJ lost to Kintaro.

 

[Hardy]

Interesting.

Do you think Ultimate Quality QP and Bismarck are as Strong as in Tier 2 or Tier 3?

Sucks that we dont know who is USA Second Best Player. I think it kinda implied its Alan since he is Second in Command. And he is the one in S2 to Fight Peter.

Based on his match against Tanegashima, I wouldn't put Bismarck above Zeus. He seemed to be a bit better before Tanegashima's final upgrade and a bit worse after.

Anything about QP is wildly speculative... I'd put him with his ultimate aura in 2 but it's kinda just guessing.

Alan is the vice-captain or sth yeah but that doesn't tell us much... especially since Jackson seemingly played instead of him vs Spain (granted, Peter played instead of Kuraraga vs the USA, so it's not like we've consistently seen every team use the best line-up available every time...). Honestly, I'd like to think Kiko is the second best player thanks to his Zeus-lite skill but yeah it's all speculation.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2023 ---

How much percentage do we think Niou's Copy compared to original though?

We saw how much Stronger Real Byodoin compared to Niou's Copy. Is Niou's Copy even at 50%? (It cannot use Eight Consciousness )

So, I am thinking if Original Noah, Camus, and Zeus are significantly stronger than Niou's Copy.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2023 ---

But anyway.

I agree that we can only evaluate Camus thru Nious Copy.

I think he is stronger than Zeus.

Noah. Idk. I assume Noah is stronger than JJ. Idk how to scale that. We just know JJ lost to Kintaro.

I'm not sure that changes anything unless Zeus' base stats are much higher than Camus' (and I'm inclined to think they are actually worse, even).

JJ says his brother was better but Noah's profile contradicts this and says JJ is more talented than him (and well... he's bigger, too). Maybe Noah's more polished but JJ has bigger potential.

In any case, Noah was a doubles player and maybe his stats didn't matter as much to bring value to his tennis, so maybe this is why he got the edge over Zeus.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Alan is the vice-captain or sth yeah but that doesn't tell us much... especially since Jackson seemingly played instead of him vs Spain (granted, Peter played instead of Kuraraga vs the USA, so it's not like we've consistently seen every team use the best line-up available every time...). Honestly, I'd like to think Kiko is the second best player thanks to his Zeus-lite skill but yeah it's all speculation.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2023 ---

Yeah. Tokugawa is like Japan's Second Best Player. He didn't play in the whole tourney before this Finals. Wait, he is not even fielded in any lineups.
Irie was actually in Japan's Lineup VS Switzerland. lol

I wonder who played for Spain and USA in their D2 Matchup. In Chapter 290 (english version). We can see a glimpse.

But i cannot visualize who. For Spain, its two tall people. So its not Seda or Romeo. I think it is Mars and Rodrigo.

For USA, Idk. Maybe Jackson and Kiko???

The score in D2 was 6-3. 6-3. (Spain Won)

While in S3, Spain won 6-4, 7-5. ( I wonder who played for both teams)

PS: Anyway, I think we will see it in one of the flashbacks from Spain Players

 

[mathematicianrcg]

-----
So do you guys think Atobe and Romeo have any chance against any of these captains?

Ralph, Amadeus, Camus, and Zeus?

 

[Hardy]

Atobe is as strong as he'll be in 3 years. If it's a single set, he should do well against all of them. Anything longer than that would be a hard sell, though, since his body is not ready yet.