Discussion Rob Lucci and CP0

[kkck]

As much as I'd like Law to stick around and fight another shichibukai with the Mugiwaras, I don't see it happening nor do I want it to happen. Law is great but he isn't with the crew, just an ally, he should go his seperate way soon. This seventh shichibukai better be a shocker. That's all I'd say.

As for Lucci, it is pretty obvious that he's become even more badass than before. I mean Spandam who had a hella ego before is now Lucci's bitch. If he wasn't an awakened Zoan before he might be one now. And in these past two years he must have at least learned some haki. How can you be in the feared strongest cipher pol group without knowing how to utilize haki? Spandam might be the only one who lacks it, using his mouth to get to where he is at now.

It doesn't seem like law is going anywhere anytime soon. If anything things seem to be heading towards him getting even closer to the strawhats once their crews meet at zou. Right now law's enterprise with the strawhats is at the most halfway done. They did not join to take down doflamingo, they joined to take down kaido.

___________________________

Lucci is certainly strong right now and should be considered a thread though to what extent he grew is anyone's guess. Though to be fair the strawhats overall seem to be at a slightly higher level than their equivalent peers in general. Take smoker for instance. He certainly has lagged behind law or luffy. Luffy himself seems to be a bit above law when it comes to overall power. Zoro has basically breezed through the new world so far. Hyosu was the strongest enemy at FI and he won easily, there was no one who had a chance against him at punk hazard and even against pika he won with a reasonable margin even without using kyotoryu. Sanji was able to hold his ground against vergo even after he had taken a fair bit of damage and even doflamingo commented on his strength.

Anyways, if lucci has had growth comparable to the non strawhat growths we have seen so far then he should lag a bit currently compared to luffy and even zoro. He would make more sense as an enemy for sanji than the other two IMO. Then again it's unlikely lucci will take a big role in the future, I don't think that would make much sense.

 

[M3J]

Lucci as Sanji's opponent would make sense, and it would show Sanji's growth if/when he wins, given he'd have no chance during the Enies Lobby arc. Lucci has likely gotten stronger, I doubt someone like him would stay the same, power-wise and mentally, after losing to a pirate. Smoker's strength seems to come from his devil fruit, and he probably can't deal with haki as efficiently. Lucci should fare better, especially given he could have defeated Luffy if Usopp didn't reveal himself.

 

[MBVC]

When Moria asked DD who ordered the hit, DD gave a hint of someone higher than Sengoku. Around that time, DD met with some CP0 member (not 100% sure) for the report of that hit. The only one who is currently higher than Sengoku and he has the power to order DD around is Kong, the ex-general admiral before Sengoku. Could Kong be the head of the CP0? It makes some sense if he selected and trained each individual member in the CP0 such that everyone masters haki + potentials of their df to the fullest.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

BTW, if this were true, then SH vs CP0 would be delayed for a long time.

 

[Eigengrau]

When Moria asked DD who ordered the hit, DD gave a hint of someone higher than Sengoku. Around that time, DD met with some CP0 member (not 100% sure) for the report of that hit. The only one who is currently higher than Sengoku and he has the power to order DD around is Kong, the ex-general admiral before Sengoku. Could Kong be the head of the CP0? It makes some sense if he selected and trained each individual member in the CP0 such that everyone masters haki + potentials of their df to the fullest.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

BTW, if this were true, then SH vs CP0 would be delayed for a long time.

By "higher-up", he meant the Gorosei/Celestial Dragons/etc., which is why he met with a Government official.
Kong always seemed like an old guy, the kind that got along well wth Garp, Sengoku, etc.

 

[MBVC]

Kong > Sengoku in position not sure about power, but most people thought Sengoku was a weakling when Spandam was known as the "leader" of CP9. Kong could be the one who gave out the order to his officer who contacted DD.

 

[Eigengrau]

Kong > Sengoku in position not sure about power, but most people thought Sengoku was a weakling when Spandam was known as the "leader" of CP9. Kong could be the one who gave out the order to his officer who contacted DD.

Kong had the Supreme Fleet Admiral Rank, I highly doubt he is/was weak. I'm pretty sure that what Doflamingo meant by "higher-up" was that it was someone above the Marines, and we all know the Gorousei/Celestial Dragons have the Marines in the palm of their hands.

I'm pretty sure Kong has nothing to do in all of this.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

When Moria asked DD who ordered the hit, DD gave a hint of someone higher than Sengoku. Around that time, DD met with some CP0 member (not 100% sure) for the report of that hit. The only one who is currently higher than Sengoku and he has the power to order DD around is Kong, the ex-general admiral before Sengoku. Could Kong be the head of the CP0? It makes some sense if he selected and trained each individual member in the CP0 such that everyone masters haki + potentials of their df to the fullest.

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

BTW, if this were true, then SH vs CP0 would be delayed for a long time.

I think we should differentiate between the Marines and CP who are WG agents. While both are working for the WG, Marines are like the Navy(in Japanese it is literally called 海軍( かいぐん)=Navy) while CP are more like spies .They might work both for the WG but they're different forces,so I can't see Kong as the head of CP too.
In the case of CP0 they are said to answer directly to the Tenryuubitos themselves. With that in mind if the CP0 guy we saw in Dressrosa(who is not Spandam since their hats are very different) is the same guy who ordered DD to kill Moria, then it could be an order from the CDs themselves. Although I fail to see what their interest is in this matter. I guess we can only speculate as to why they would give such an order,maybe since he failed they wanted to get rid of him, but then again this isn't something that should warrant their intervention. But at the same time Sengoku wouldn't have agreed to getting rid of Moria, it would have left a vacant spot in the Shichibukai, so maybe once again the Tenryuubitos went over the head of the Gorosei and decided to get rid of Moria.
Also the guy DD was talking to seemed afraid, or so some believe, but let's not forget who DD is. He's one of the strongest Shichibukai, and a former Tenryuubito at that.He also threatened to quit the Shichibukai, which imo could be detrimental to the CDs as well. I bet that since he's a former CD he has a lot of dirt on them, add to that his ties to Kaido and the underworld...they might make an enemy of someone who is very dangerous. And of course in the context of the Summit war it would make sense they would be worried to lose such a powerful ally, so it's kinda normal that the CP0 member wasn't feeling all that comfortable in that situation.

 

[Eigengrau]

I still believe the person with whom Doflamingo met was nothing more than that, a WG agent, and he was depicted as such in the anime. If it turns out that the guy from CP-0 was indeed the one talking with Doflamingo, then I'd have to say it's the first time in the series where's they've completely re-drawn a character entirely. I might be wrong, but the only thing that comes close to this is the color of Marco's hair...

I mean, taking into account of what was asked of Doflamingo, they really didn't need to send someone as "important" from CP-0. If that were the case, the meeting would've been more "mysterious" and dark, not to mention that Oda would have never allowed to have him portrayed as a "normal" guy in the anime... which is exactly what happened.

I just had a random thought... What if the Gorosei/Celestial Dragons wanted Moriah out of the picture (weakest/easiest one to make him go "away") because they handpicked one of their own to occupy the the vacant spot in the Shichibukai? I think this could be that, let's not forget that when Brannew introduced the new set of Warlords, when he mentioned the 7th he said "and the man I told you about earlier", meaning they likely talked about him first because they were just relaying information from the higher-ups: they had nothing to do with that person becoming a Warlord, it wasn't their decision.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I still believe the person with whom Doflamingo met was nothing more than that, a WG agent, and he was depicted as such in the anime. If it turns out that the guy from CP-0 was indeed the one talking with Doflamingo, then I'd have to say it's the first time in the series where's they've completely re-drawn a character entirely. I might be wrong, but the only thing that comes close to this is the color of Marco's hair...

I mean, taking into account of what was asked of Doflamingo, they really didn't need to send someone as "important" from CP-0. If that were the case, the meeting would've been more "mysterious" and dark, not to mention that Oda would have never allowed to have him portrayed as a "normal" guy in the anime... which is exactly what happened.

I just had a random thought... What if the Gorosei/Celestial Dragons wanted Moriah out of the picture (weakest/easiest one to make him go "away") because they handpicked one of their own to occupy the the vacant spot in the Shichibukai? I think this could be that, let's not forget that when Brannew introduced the new set of Warlords, when he mentioned the 7th he said "and the man I told you about earlier", meaning they likely talked about him first because they were just relaying information from the higher-ups: they had nothing to do with that person becoming a Warlord, it wasn't their decision.

Again the anime isn't the definite source, the manga is. As pointed out in the chapter discussion, the person who was watching CC's livestream, and who looks exactly like Lucci, ended up becoming a random dude, who isn't voiced by Lucci's VA. As you spend more time on the forum, you will find out that the manga is always preferred to the anime, when it comes to canonicity.
CP0 are WG agents, and in this kind of "sensitive" mission, I don't think it's just some random WG person. Depending on who gave the order, which is most likely the Gorosei/CDs, then I can see it being CP0 specifically, and not some random WG agent. And like I said in the discussion there's a lot of fans who are underestimating DD.Just because Luffy trashed him means he's weak. He could be a threat to even CP0, especially because of his fruit. Anyway one thing that I'm sure of, is that the "WG agent" can't be Spandam. He most likely wasn't even part of CP0 back then.

 

[MBVC]

I think we should differentiate between the Marines and CP who are WG agents. While both are working for the WG, Marines are like the Navy(in Japanese it is literally called 海軍( かいぐん)=Navy) while CP are more like spies .They might work both for the WG but they're different forces,so I can't see Kong as the head of CP too.

I thought Kong graduated from the Marines a long time ago, he's currently working in the upper food chain of WG.

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

Kong stopped being in the Marines right after Sengoku took over the top seat, so I thought. Is there any hidden info whose I'd missed?

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I thought Kong graduated from the Marines a long time ago, he's currently working in the upper food chain of WG.

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

Kong stopped being in the Marines right after Sengoku took over the top seat, so I thought. Is there any hidden info whose I'd missed?

Alright this is what the wikia says

While he was the fleet admiral of the Marines, he had absolute control of the organization, under the World Government. Now, as World Government Commander-in-Chief, he works for the World Government, and possesses not only power over the Marines, but also authority over the Government's espionage agents, the Shichibukai, Enies Lobby, and the Cipher Pols. According to the World Government hierarchy, his authority is second only to the Gorosei.[4] His political powers enable him to revoke any Shichibukai title at any time.

I don't recall this being mentioned in the manga, this info appears in One Piece Yellow Grand Elements. I prolly wouldn't have access to this information since it was mentioned in the guide, but from now on feel free to check the wikia.

 

[MBVC]

Alright this is what the wikia says

I don't recall this being mentioned in the manga, this info appears in One Piece Yellow Grand Elements. I prolly wouldn't have access to this information since it was mentioned in the guide, but from now on feel free to check the wikia.

Thanks.

So based on this info, Kong was likely the one who gave out the hit order on Moria and also the head of CP0. Those lazy royals are too busy becoming arrogance to pay any attention to Moria.

This is not off topic if Kong is the CP0 boss, Luffy won't reach his power level for quite some time.

 

[junjun2]

We need to think about Spandine too, the father of Spandam. 22 years ago he was CP9's chief and completed the mission in Ohara.
He must be in a high position of the world government now.

 

[Madness20]

Lucci certainly got access to Haki, i'm curious how much CoA and CoO upgrades the rokushiki, specially when it comes to talented people like Lucci, he might be a monster himself. Sure he got beaten by luffy back then, but let's just assume that he was undertrained at the time since he dedicated so many years to his mission, but his backstory tells us he's extremelly talented for the rokushiki, having mastered it at young age, and he still appears to be the best user since then. His soru and physical strenght might be to an unprecendented level, sure DoFlamingo had the awakening, but i'm unsure doflamingo could match Lucci speed+strenght combined, which might make lucci a threat by himself. He has a high level of specialization on his attributes which might make him a more dangerous fighter than it appears at first.

If he's going to fight luffy, he won't underestimate him this time as well, as it might be the other way around and Luffy underestimate lucci's strenght which might cost him some damage, because with haki he's certainly able to inflict more damage to luffy with his physical hits. But still, i'm skeptical of his allegiance and that he'd dare to try to beat luffy once again. Something tells me he might be more of a fujitora this time and just pretend to do his job while letting luffy go his way.

 

[Stiltzkin]

Lucci won't becomes enemy of SH again for sure
either he will becomes friend, ally, or rival - but not enemy

look at those past enemies of SH whos reappearing; Crocodile, Bellamy, Hachi, etc. even Buggy
neither of those becomes enemy of Luffy again
that's why I'm pretty sure that Lucci will not be in the way of Luffy again
​

 

[kkck]

^Good point. It seems like OP enemies are getting the dragon ball treatment so far...

 

[BASED Shinigami]

I do believe the Straw Hats will fight the CPO in a future arc. Rob may get to fight Luffy again although I doubt he'll be the main antagonist like last time.

 

[Stiltzkin]

I do believe the Straw Hats will fight the CPO in a future arc. Rob may get to fight Luffy again although I doubt he'll be the main antagonist like last time.

altho Lucci would fight Luffy again (which I doubt it), it will just becomes friendly-match or rivalry-fight like the case of Luffy vs. Bellamy at Dressrosa, as Luffy thinks Bellamy as not-enemy (and vice versa) its just the situation that makes them fight each other without them being hate each other
you know, like buddy fight or bestfriend quarrel or something like that​

 

[Nizen]

I have my hopes set for Lucci being a multi agent. And the encounter between Luffy and him will take place in the arc where Kaido is the antagonist. Though I don't see Kaido being that bright as a person, but he might have his own infiltration in the WG and Rob Lucci might be his underling working there post-timeskip. I have read some theories about how CP9 fit in Kaido's army of Zoan and Rob Lucci being a perfect doublecrosser makes sense as his strength makes him capable of being in Kaido's crew. There is also a chance that he's a part of RA. And his previous exeperience in CP9 can come in account too. Nontheless, I put my money on him being a defect.
This also leads me to think whether he has developed his own agendas and is tired of being bossed around by others and has been planning something big over the years. I'm pretty sure he has developed the same feeling about WG as Garp has but is seeking for something and is conspiring something against WG. One thing would be that he is looking for more info about Pluton/Void Century as that was the talking point in EL. He is adamant and doesn't care how long will it take to find what he needs, as we all know. He will discover something big because in general, that is what undercover agents are created for. His reappearance will mean a lot to the overall story, I can assure you that. Whats possible is that CP9 will become SH's ally in the long run. But thats just a long shot.

 

[M3J]

Lucci won't becomes enemy of SH again for sure
either he will becomes friend, ally, or rival - but not enemy

look at those past enemies of SH whos reappearing; Crocodile, Bellamy, Hachi, etc. even Buggy
neither of those becomes enemy of Luffy again
that's why I'm pretty sure that Lucci will not be in the way of Luffy again
​

But some like Moria were still enemies, and Blackbeard is still an enemy. Lucci will likely still get in Luffy's way... why wouldn't he? But now, I can see Lucci vs. Sanji or even Zoro as either should have the skills to fight him.