Fantasy Sanji vs King

[XXGenesis]

Location: Live Floor
Distance:
Rules: No CIS/Still in character

Can Sanji’s Ifrit burn, King the Lunarian & his Imperial Flames??

Can Sanji defeat the 1st Mate & Right wing of the Beast Pirates also?

 

[HereNThere]

Going to say King right now as Ifrit Jambe's full capabilities are rather vague at the moment. Personally, I think it'll be Sanji's unique equivalent to CoC/AdCoC, but I can't say that for sure at the moment.

That said, King isn't coming out unscathed as Sanji should still have enough AP to do something to the hunky boi while he's in Attack Mode. I'd say he certainly has the speed to keep up with King's mode shifts at the least and shouldn't be overwhelmed in that category. The only real issue is King's durablity.

 

[grey matter]

King wins quite convincingly.

Since no CIS, King stays in defense mode forever.

King, even in defense mode, has CQC/combat speed in the same ballpark as Zoro, and pure speed relative to Raid Suit Sanji (pre Germa bio awakening)
Which means, King has more than enough in his arsenal in his defense mode, to deal with Sanji.

King's offense mode is most likely faster than Sanji as well.
Sanji "disappeared" in front of Queen, but Queen isn't really perceptive to begin with, Sanji was smacking him even before Germa awakening.
King's offense mode "disappeared" in from of Zoro, and Zoro has great perception.
Which means, King even in his offense mode would win, but would take some damage before putting down Sanji.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Sanji fainted after his fight with queen, it was a close match. He would lose against someone with higher rank than queen

 

[grey matter]

Sanji fainted after his fight with queen, it was a close match. He would lose against someone with higher rank than queen

He fainted probably due to the healing and all he did after the germa bio awakening.

The fight with Queen itself was moreso a mid-high diff.

Yeah, Sanji would lose cause he has no way around King's defense mode. But, if King sticks to offense mode, Sanji can push him to a high-extreme diff

 

[Pirate Queen]

I guess I'm not allowed to change my vote but my vote is for King. I thought it said Katakuri. I've been getting them mixed in my head recently

 

[XXGenesis]

He fainted probably due to the healing and all he did after the germa bio awakening.

The fight with Queen itself was moreso a mid-high diff.

Yeah, Sanji would lose cause he has no way around King's defense mode. But, if King sticks to offense mode, Sanji can push him to a high-extreme diff

King is a tier above Sanji. Using Offensive mode for an extended duration. Sanji would get in some attacks but mostly be overwhelmed by King’s offensive press. Zoro used his sword to block, Sanji is going to accumulate damage fast getting smacked around the same way Zoro was.

King’s whole trick is the switch up from tank, to swift high AP. Sanji would be stuck on his defense mode, same way Zoro was. King was much more offensive than Queen was & he’s faster and stronger than Queen. So Sanji is overwhelmed in a mid Diff fight.

Sanji is smart enough to figure out the trick. King is just the more opposing fighter all around. Sanji wouldn’t be able to endure the punishment

 

[grey matter]

King is a tier above Sanji. Using Offensive mode for an extended duration. Sanji would get in some attacks but mostly be overwhelmed by King’s offensive press. Zoro used his sword to block, Sanji is going to accumulate damage fast getting smacked around the same way Zoro was.

King’s whole trick is the switch up from tank, to swift high AP. Sanji would be stuck on his defense mode, same way Zoro was. King was much more offensive than Queen was & he’s faster and stronger than Queen. So Sanji is overwhelmed in a mid Diff fight.

Sanji is smart enough to figure out the trick. King is just the more opposing fighter all around. Sanji wouldn’t be able to endure the punishment

Yeah, that's what I said.

If King stays in defensive mode forever, he wins comfortably. Nothing Sanji can do will damage King, considering defense mode King was no selling attacks from rooftop Zoro.

if King fights like he did against Zoro (i.e mixing defense and offense mode), he wins mid diff, like he was about to beat Zoro pre advanced conqueror's

If King sticks in his offense mode forever, he wins with high diff. They should be around the same ballpark in CQC and durability; but King will be have advantage in pure speed and attack power.

 

[XXGenesis]

Yeah, that's what I said.

If King stays in defensive mode forever, he wins comfortably. Nothing Sanji can do will damage King, considering defense mode King was no selling attacks from rooftop Zoro.

if King fights like he did against Zoro (i.e mixing defense and offense mode), he wins mid diff, like he was about to beat Zoro pre advanced conqueror's

If King sticks in his offense mode forever, he wins with high diff. They should be around the same ballpark in CQC and durability; but King will be have advantage in pure speed and attack power.

Sanji can’t push a high Diff defeat. Queen was already Mid-high; Queen wasn’t a high tier martial arts fighter, but a gadget brawler, who lost because he took too much damage, missed attacks..

King in Speed form only, would just overpower Sanji faster. Whether King is more vulnerable, doesn’t matter that much. King is overall too much for Sanji to push King into High Diff.

 

[afromarco005]

King wins this mid diff. Low diff if Ifrit jambe has no effect on King

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

sanji fainted right after the queen fight (close to draw). He loses against the superior rank commander here

 

[XXGenesis]

sanji fainted right after the queen fight (close to draw). He loses against the superior rank commander here

Right. So I don’t see how a stronger combatant, that is a better fighter than his last opponent. Gives Sanji much room to be a high diff challenger. It’s gonna be Mid-low defeat, Sanji is outmatched currently

 

[Brandish μ]

Sanji did exhaust himself but he outclassed Queen in combat. That last attacked destroyed Queen. I think if Sanji figures out King's secret, he can win in more or less the same way Zoro did.

 

[XXGenesis]

Sanji did exhaust himself but he outclassed Queen in combat. That last attacked destroyed Queen. I think if Sanji figures out King's secret, he can win in more or less the same way Zoro did.

I really don’t understand how you can draw that opinion. He outclassed Queen; Why do you think he’ll outclass King?? After seeing his fight with Zoro??

Even with King’s secret figured out. How does Sanji deal with the giant lava dragon??

& isn’t King fire proof….Sanji’s Diamble skill shouldn’t work on King.

 

[grey matter]

Sanji did exhaust himself but he outclassed Queen in combat. That last attacked destroyed Queen. I think if Sanji figures out King's secret, he can win in more or less the same way Zoro did.

Yeah, but Queen wasn't really much of a fighter. He was getting smacked for the most part, even before Sanji awoke Germa biology. Just that back then, Sanji didn't have the attack power to put him down.
Queen is a brawler relying on brute strength, durability and his tech.

King however was an actual fighter, with good CQC and speed. On top of being far more durable than Queen.

Zoro could win because advanced conqueror's could bypass King's immunity.

Considering Zoro's attack power couldn't damage King's defense mode pre advanced conqueror's, Sanji's wouldn't either.

King's defense mode has combat speed on the ballpark as Zoro's (slightly below in his base, slightly above in zoan/hybrid mode)
King's defense mode isn't slow by any means.

King also has higher attack power. His physical attack power was comparable to pre advanced conqueror's Zoro, and also has magma-esque fire attacks

Sanji really is out of options if King decides to stay in his defense mode forever.

If King sticks to his offense mode however, his speed is probably outright above Sanji's own (being fast enough to disappear in front of someone as perceptive as Zoro is a better feat than being fast enough to disappear in front of Queen who was getting smacked by Sanji pre germa awakening).
King would be faster and have higher attack power if he's in offense mode.
Sanji can push King to a high diff in this scenario.

*******

I think current Sanji is in the same level as rooftop Zoro (i.e pre advanced conqueror's Zoro), overall. With Sanji excelling in speed, while rooftop Zoro in attack power.

Sanji would give King the same difficulty as pre advanced conqueror's Zoro, if we consider King in character (i.e mixing up attack/defense mode)
A mid diff win for King.

 

[Brandish μ]

I really don’t understand how you can draw that opinion. He outclassed Queen; Why do you think he’ll outclass King?? After seeing his fight with Zoro??

Even with King’s secret figured out. How does Sanji deal with the giant lava dragon??

& isn’t King fire proof….Sanji’s Diamble skill shouldn’t work on King.

Yeah, but Queen wasn't really much of a fighter. He was getting smacked for the most part, even before Sanji awoke Germa biology. Just that back then, Sanji didn't have the attack power to put him down.
Queen is a brawler relying on brute strength, durability and his tech.

King however was an actual fighter, with good CQC and speed. On top of being far more durable than Queen.

Zoro could win because advanced conqueror's could bypass King's immunity.

Considering Zoro's attack power couldn't damage King's defense mode pre advanced conqueror's, Sanji's wouldn't either.

King's defense mode has combat speed on the ballpark as Zoro's (slightly below in his base, slightly above in zoan/hybrid mode)
King's defense mode isn't slow by any means.

King also has higher attack power. His physical attack power was comparable to pre advanced conqueror's Zoro, and also has magma-esque fire attacks

Sanji really is out of options if King decides to stay in his defense mode forever.

If King sticks to his offense mode however, his speed is probably outright above Sanji's own (being fast enough to disappear in front of someone as perceptive as Zoro is a better feat than being fast enough to disappear in front of Queen who was getting smacked by Sanji pre germa awakening).
King would be faster and have higher attack power if he's in offense mode.
Sanji can push King to a high diff in this scenario.

*******

I think current Sanji is in the same level as rooftop Zoro (i.e pre advanced conqueror's Zoro), overall. With Sanji excelling in speed, while rooftop Zoro in attack power.

Sanji would give King the same difficulty as pre advanced conqueror's Zoro, if we consider King in character (i.e mixing up attack/defense mode)
A mid diff win for King.

I see where you guys are coming from so I'll do my best to explain how I view Sanji and Zoro.

Zoro was able to beat King once he knew the secret of King's body and use an incredibly powerful attack. The haki consumption of the attack plus the use beforehand exhausted Zoro - and the haki was of arguably the strongest quality. 103 Mercies tore through King's finisher + King's body.

Sanji didn't have that much trouble against Queen, who I agree is not as good in physical combat like King. But Sanji's finisher was far beyond what Queen could handle, and Queen should be tougher than Jack at least.

It seems like both Sanji and Zoro are written in with powers that have a shot clock, kinda like Luffy. For a time they can produce offensive power beyond their 'tier'.

What I'm really looking at here is one dude taking out the number 1, and the other taking out the number 2, in similar fashion, and reasoning the second guy could also take out the number 1. If Sanji barely beat King I wouldn't be surprised. I guess there's some good points about King's body, Queen's poorer CQC skills, right hand commanders having that "extra" portrayal, and how Zoro used advanced CoC. If I were to concede King winning it would be a very tough, very difficult win for him.

 

[grey matter]

Zoro was able to beat King once he knew the secret of King's body and use an incredibly powerful attack. The haki consumption of the attack plus the use beforehand exhausted Zoro - and the haki was of arguably the strongest quality. 103 Mercies tore through King's finisher + King's body.

Yes, that's because of advanced conqueror's haki though.

Zoro couldn't even scratch King's defense mode without it.

Knowing the secret to King's body wouldn't have helped him much here, if he didn't have the means to damage King's defense mode anyway.
What if King decides to fight forever in his defense mode? In his defense mode, he is comparable to Zoro in CQC and speed.

It seems like both Sanji and Zoro are written in with powers that have a shot clock, kinda like Luffy. For a time they can produce offensive power beyond their 'tier'.

I would agree with this.

But how much do you see Sanji's attack power at? Is it higher than rooftop Zoro, who did these?

Spoiler

Cause, we have feats of King no selling THESE attacks.

If King stays in his defese mode, there isn't much that Sanji can really do here.

What I'm really looking at here is one dude taking out the number 1, and the other taking out the number 2, in similar fashion, and reasoning the second guy could also take out the number 1.

Why would that be the case?

King has more attack power and is faster than Queen. Actually knows how to fighting in combat.
And, has a mode which renders him immune to even attacks as strong as rooftop Zoro's

If Sanji barely beat King I wouldn't be surprised. I guess there's some good points about King's body, Queen's poorer CQC skills, right hand commanders having that "extra" portrayal, and how Zoro used advanced CoC. If I were to concede King winning it would be a very tough, very difficult win for him.

Yeah, the gap is quite big between King and Queen.

On top of knowing how to actually fight, King has Queen beat in every single stat.


Let me know if you disagree with this: IMO, current Sanji and rooftop Zoro are around the same level. With Sanji excelling in speed, while Zoro in attack power. A fight between them is extreme diff, can go either way.
Current Zoro however, is at a level where he can high diff Sanji.

Overall, I'd considering Sanji at or bordering YC1 tier.
But matchups also matter. King is a bad match for Sanji. He would beat Sanji easier than Zoro would beat Sanji.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Sanji fainted after his fight with queen, it was a close match. He would lose against someone with higher rank than queen

sanji fainted right after the queen fight (close to draw). He loses against the superior rank commander here

lmao just realized i already made a similar comment last month

 

[XXGenesis]

I see where you guys are coming from so I'll do my best to explain how I view Sanji and Zoro.

Zoro was able to beat King once he knew the secret of King's body and use an incredibly powerful attack. The haki consumption of the attack plus the use beforehand exhausted Zoro - and the haki was of arguably the strongest quality. 103 Mercies tore through King's finisher + King's body.

Sanji didn't have that much trouble against Queen, who I agree is not as good in physical combat like King. But Sanji's finisher was far beyond what Queen could handle, and Queen should be tougher than Jack at least.

It seems like both Sanji and Zoro are written in with powers that have a shot clock, kinda like Luffy. For a time they can produce offensive power beyond their 'tier'.

What I'm really looking at here is one dude taking out the number 1, and the other taking out the number 2, in similar fashion, and reasoning the second guy could also take out the number 1. If Sanji barely beat King I wouldn't be surprised. I guess there's some good points about King's body, Queen's poorer CQC skills, right hand commanders having that "extra" portrayal, and how Zoro used advanced CoC. If I were to concede King winning it would be a very tough, very difficult win for him.

I understand your stance now.

My interpretation of Queen vs Sanji, Sanji was the better fighter all around and overall so the Portryal makes it look like a low-mid Diff. Queen Hurt Sanji before Germa’s power activated & after with Germa’s attack, not the fastest of attacks.

So up against King s better fighter with more attack power, and better skill, plus he has a invulnerability trick. Sanji should be physically overwhelmed even more than Zoro who was getting overpowered constantly by King in both base & hybrid form. Sanji would be blocking with his body, he can’t outmaneuver King via air, Sanji has no ranged attacks. Nor do I think a Ifrit Jambe can compete with Giant Imperial Flame Dragon.

During an arc I never believed Sanji could take the #2. Logically it doesn’t add up if Zoro is above him and even he struggles. Sanji shouldn’t be able to do the same, mostly because he’s missing the skill set or isn’t a good match up for him.

 

[john ellis]

Honestly the thing about Zoro is unlike Sanji I don’t think there is many if any pirate that could stand and tank his attacks. I don’t even think prime Rodger or whitebeard wouldn’t atleast get cut by his blades. Sanji in the other hand just doesn’t have the power to hit to damage any high tiers.