Discussion Since when has friendship dictated the goals of an Army?

[Hannibal Psyche]

There has been a lot of blame on Dragon for "inactivity" regarding Ginny and Vegapunk. Dragon is supposedly scum for not saving Ginny, and apparently, scum for not saving VP.
My point is the RA is an army, their goal is to liberate slaves and save countries whom are resisting the WG, and they spread their forces and resources to do that. Ginny being a soldier got captured, and it's not imperative for Dragon to save Ginny in Mariejois of all places when it'd be a failure and it'd most likely disrupt or even end their mission to liberate all these countries they help fight the WG.
Also, that Vegapunk is not Dragon's responsibility, he shouldn't be held responsible for VP dying.

The Revolutionary Army is an Army.

Soldiers join armies.
Being a soldier means:

• You're accepting you follow the risk to be shot.
• You're accepting you follow the risk to be wounded.
• You're accepting you follow the risk to captured.
• You're accepting you follow the risk to be killed.

So, why cry when you get shot, wounded or captured after joining an army? You don't, you know what you signed up for.

Ginny and Kuma were slaves, they joined the RA knowing it was an army whose goal was to aid countries in fighting against corrupt leaders associated with the WG and ending slavery which was enforced by the Celestial Dragon.

Dragon is blamed for everything.

Ginny joined an ARMY and got captured while they fought a war in East Blue.
Kuma who was Ginny's lover knew this.
Is Dragon obligated to save every captured soldier? No, because the Army's mission is to help countries fight wars against the WG and liberate slaves.
That's why it's an army, the goal of the army takes precedence.
If you join an army and you get shot, wounded or captured, you can't cry, you signed up knowing full well it might happen.

The RA have openly stated that they were poor and lack resources, but Ginny and Kuma joined knowing this.
Ginny wasn't rescued while she was captured, why don't people blame her lover for not going to save her? but expect Dragon to throw away everything he's been building up to save a soldier?
There's simply no point saving a soldier if it risks the destruction of the organisation.

VP is about to die, yet apparently, VP is also the responsibility of Dragon.... is Dragon responsible for every person's life in the world?

Can't join an army, and then get shocked that you're being treated like a soldier.
Dragon is the most wanted man in the world because his actions has threatened the stability the WG have. Many countries and millions of people have been saved by the RA, but because 1 person dies, Dragon is a bad leader despite the WG viewing him as one of the biggest threats in the series.

Friendship doesn't have any place in the army, it doesn't dictate what an army does. Ginny died, too bad, she joined knowing the consequences.

Dragon isn't there to be buddy buddy with people, he's there to be a leader and he is there to carry out a mission. Don't join an army and act surprised when you see it operates like an army.

 

[Uriel]

First, I need context for why bringing this up.
Second: This is a shounen anime that is based on the power of friendship.
Third: Even real armies DO have human beings with REAL connections. And these will weigh on the events that an army goes trough.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

First, I need context for why bringing this up.
Second: This is a shounen anime that is based on the power of friendship.
Third: Even real armies DO have human beings with REAL connections. And these will weigh on the events that an army goes trough.

There has been a lot of blame on Dragon for "inactivity" regarding Ginny and Vegapunk. Dragon is supposedly scum for not saving Ginny, and apparently, scum for not saving VP.
My point is the RA is an army, their goal is to liberate slaves and save countries whom are resisting the WG, and they spread their forces and resources to do that. Ginny being a soldier got captured, and it's not imperative for Dragon to save Ginny in Mariejois of all places when it'd be a failure and it'd most likely disrupt or even end their mission to liberate all these countries they help fight the WG.
Also, that Vegapunk is not Dragon's responsibility, he shouldn't be held responsible for VP dying.

While human interaction will always be a thing, it's not generally what will dictate what actions a military organisation will make, it will usually be the goal of the organisation that dictates that.

 

[XXGenesis]

Truthfully on this forum and this particular argument you are having primarily with one individual……

The masses had this argument many chapters ago and then it was dropped. For the many points you have articulated debating that Dragon did nothing wrong.

Lol yea I saw this thread and read the 1st paragraph like “nani?!” You just went right into debating without giving the subject.

 

[baditz]

U just missed the "purpose",,
Being a pirate just for personal greed, pride etc from captain, all the crew do every think for captain greed, all pirate captaun have peraonal ambition, want strong, want rich, want be piraye king,,
For RA, Dragon not doing it for his personal, he n his man do it for the world, they want take down the "world govertment", n give feeedom for every one, thats why he cannot do anything jist nased on hos "personal" matter.

 

[Fox666]

There has been a lot of blame on Dragon for "inactivity" regarding Ginny and Vegapunk. Dragon is supposedly scum for not saving Ginny, and apparently, scum for not saving VP.

You should have started your first post with that line, It makes it seem like you were replying to a post, but created a new thread by accident, very confusing

First, I need context for why bringing this up.
Second: This is a shounen anime that is based on the power of friendship.
Third: Even real armies DO have human beings with REAL connections. And these will weigh on the events that an army goes trough.

Dragon is fighting for the greater good, he's willing to sacrifice his life and the life of his friends

Dropping everything to save a soldier will make his goal impossible to achieve

When Luffy or Whitebeard start a war because of someone they care, they are being selfish. But they are pirates, they can do everything they want

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Third: Even real armies DO have human beings with REAL connections. And these will weigh on the events that an army goes trough.

I think the point is missed with this statement. People in the military makes all sorts of connections. From being in conflict with your CO to lifelong friendships, they make these connections whether they like it or not. But in the grander scheme of things, these relationships have no impact on the unit as a whole.

In this way, people are like certain types of animals that group together. From ants to herds of gazelle. If one individual gets taken out by a predator, the rest moves on. Sure the calf may perish but it doesn't affect the whole unit unless a critical amount is wiped out. Dragon has no obligations to let one affect the rest. If he did he wouldn't be able to be an effective leader. He has to be able to ignore some emotions in order to do what he do. Sure does sound heartless doesn't it? Well someone has to do it. Someone has to bear that responsibility. And someone has to make sacrifices so the whole unit can keep operating.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You should have started your first post with that line, It makes it seem like you were replying to a post, but created a new thread by accident, very confusing

Corrected it, it was rushed, lol.

 

[Uriel]

I think the point is missed with this statement. People in the military makes all sorts of connections. From being in conflict with your CO to lifelong friendships, they make these connections whether they like it or not. But in the grander scheme of things, these relationships have no impact on the unit as a whole.

The grand scheme of things is always dictated by the small things. In real history, there are a LOT of examples. And I do mean a lot.

Anyway... I get the reasoning of the OP, but in the end, this is a shounen. And by Shounen's standards, Dragon should have done something. It's not that Oda has not shown before the power of friendship or being above tropes.

 

[Fox666]

Anyway... I get the reasoning of the OP, but in the end, this is a shounen. And by Shounen's standards, Dragon should have done something. It's not that Oda has not shown before the power of friendship or being above tropes.

That's why the protagonists are Pirates. They are allowed to do that, they are allowed to throw everything away for a friend.

But Dragon is not a Pirate, he's a military leader, he must think strategically.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The grand scheme of things is always dictated by the small things. In real history, there are a LOT of examples. And I do mean a lot.

Anyway... I get the reasoning of the OP, but in the end, this is a shounen. And by Shounen's standards, Dragon should have done something. It's not that Oda has not shown before the power of friendship or being above tropes.

Shounen standards are only applicable to the main character.

Every other character has to play be the rules of logic and reasoning.

Even the WG has to wait 3 months to take on Vegapunk, surely it makes sense that in order to challenge the WG, it should be something that takes years. On top of it taking 3 months, it took the WG a vast amount of resources:

• They had 9 Vice Admirals when a buster-call utilises 5 Vice Admirals.
• They had an Admiral who usually takes no part in a buster-call, and more so at a time where the world is in so much chaos.
• They made use of 100 battleships, 10x the amount use in a buster-call.
• They made use of Pacifista and multiple Seraphim.
• The WG have come to Vegapunk with the military capacity of more than 10 countries.

Consider the amount of money this is costing... the WG request Heavenly tribute from their allied nations because money plays a role. If the WG need money, imagine how much military power and resources would be needed for the RA?
They're low on money, low on resources, it's virtually impossible. An organisation like the RA can't.

Only Luffy can just waltz into Impel Down, into Wano, into Enies Lobby without a plan, and things just happen to workout for him. If we look at the entire series, there's no major arc where Luffy realistically should have been successful.

Kid and co. had to plan, amass wealth, acquire multiple ships and allies with other Supernova just for their mission to be curbed by Kaido. Luffy's playing on Shounen rules, everyone else plays by realistic rules.

Ultimately, if we expect anyone in the series to play by Shounen rules, then Dragon alone should be capable of walking into Mariejoa and defeating the entire WG without plans, but that is unlikely to happen.
Only Luffy can do such a thing... he went into Wano with 5k against 30k, and won, that's not realistic. The victory came from plot.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Me having to be told about this thread by another member because OP couldn't bother to tag me in it knowing damn well he should*