Discussion Snek Charmer/Sea Snek

[O_n_Sly]

I doubt it, if that was the case why not let Laura have normal babies and splice them at infancy. Just as the Pine Workshop did with Wang and Yas, successful and more effective. I agree that Laura and lover are being punished. Whoever was turned into SM after the twins were conceived.

 

[kkck]

I wonder if like the snake's charmer's function is to select potential princesses perhaps the sea snake is meant to find wives for traumerei...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Admittedly, looks like I was wrong.

Some connection still (both being a mass of snakes - people eating their snakes to get stronger - Androssi having a familiar feeling), but it looks like SS was locked up since his discovery and stayed in the bowl all this time. Previously, he lived a hidden life, just replicating himself every year because why not.

Thus, no room for SS and SC being the same entity.

Also, the 'copulation' scene with Laura (I was at least right about her doing as much with a snake... eh) was the SS. Which is... just gross and disappointing. At least SC can look like a human convincingly. She just did what she had to, while Rei watched. Thanks for that, SIU.

There's still room that SC is one of the SS's spin-off snakes, a being that ate his snakes, or just a similar species that also has some special princess connection. TBD

 

[Demonspeed]

I think the SC is a superior Stranded Snake compared to the MS. Or an Anima who ate one.
The one thing which annoys me about him being a natural Shinheuh is his name . Why is he called Snake Charmer if he is a snake himself .

 

[kkck]

Welp, it's clear now that the Sea Snake's function is not to find wives for traumerei. But perhaps a specific part of his background is relevant to the snake charmer. The case is made that the sea snake awoke to emotions it wasn't supposed to have, love for laura and for his daughter. Maybe the snake charmer went through something similar and through that it ended up searching for princess candidates for zahard? In this case how the snake charmer feels about androsi (and potentially other princesses) is probably not all that disimilar from how the sea snake feels about lilial.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2023 ---

I think the SC is a superior Stranded Snake compared to the MS. Or an Anima who ate one.
The one thing which annoys me about him being a natural Shinheuh is his name . Why is he called Snake Charmer if he is a snake himself .

I still wonder if it is a shineuh or just one of the tower's species. Not everything that isn't human is a shineuh afaik but it's unclear where the distinction between, say, fandore harp and elpathion. Or the literal leech/worm regular that was used to help beta pass as a regular back in S2 the workshop battle.

 

[Demonspeed]

I still wonder if it is a shineuh or just one of the tower's species. Not everything that isn't human is a shineuh afaik but it's unclear where the distinction between, say, fandore harp and elpathion. Or the literal leech/worm regular that was used to help beta pass as a regular back in S2 the workshop battle.

I have been thinking about this as well recently. I am not sure where to draw the line.

For example, Rak is a Wrathraiser, acknowledged as a race, descendant of a Native One, but the Native One was once a giant. So, did that giant count as a Shinheuh? Are Ancient Ones Shinheuh who can be tamed etc. Can Rak?

I used to think the SC was a humanoid snake, but Androssi said he was a Stranded Snake, didn't she?

I doubt the SS and SC are that similar, the SS knew nothing of the world and fell in love with Laura at first sight. The SC was cultured, but he did call Androssi his jewel or something.

 

[kkck]

I have been thinking about this as well recently. I am not sure where to draw the line.

For example, Rak is a Wrathraiser, acknowledged as a race, descendant of a Native One, but the Native One was once a giant. So, did that giant count as a Shinheuh? Are Ancient Ones Shinheuh who can be tamed etc. Can Rak?

I used to think the SC was a humanoid snake, but Androssi said he was a Stranded Snake, didn't she?

I doubt the SS and SC are that similar, the SS knew nothing of the world and fell in love with Laura at first sight. The SC was cultured, but he did call Androssi his jewel or something.

Yeah, my original view that shineuh were simply animals of the tower simply doesn't really hold up as there are shineuh with sentience at least. The talking owl broke me *shakes fist at SIU*.

On the anima front... I think part of the issue is that anima skills probably work on things that aren't shineuh. I am almost certain that not every non human creature in the tower is a shineuh, it's just the line that is blurry. Traumerei is referred to as someone that can control every creature in the tower (though perhaps his twisted personality plays into that), to me that suggests any being is hypothetically susceptible to his power. Now, whether they actually are susceptible to his powers is a different issue and perhaps power and rights and rules play into it.

More like similar background. Obviously two distinct beings. If they are the same species then it tracks that at some point they lived roughly comparable lives like creatures of their kind would. And if the sea snake could be introduced to new emotions then so can the snake charmer. If the snake charmer is more eloquent than the sea snake, I would argue that evidences the snake charmer living as part of the tower's civilization longer than the sea snake. The difference between someone who has spent probably eons selecting princesses for the king compared to a snake whose only contact with the world has been laura.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah, my original view that shineuh were simply animals of the tower simply doesn't really hold up as there are shineuh with sentience at least. The talking owl broke me *shakes fist at SIU*.

On the anima front... I think part of the issue is that anima skills probably work on things that aren't shineuh. I am almost certain that not every non human creature in the tower is a shineuh, it's just the line that is blurry. Traumerei is referred to as someone that can control every creature in the tower (though perhaps his twisted personality plays into that), to me that suggests any being is hypothetically susceptible to his power. Now, whether they actually are susceptible to his powers is a different issue and perhaps power and rights and rules play into it.

More like similar background. Obviously two distinct beings. If they are the same species then it tracks that at some point they lived roughly comparable lives like creatures of their kind would. And if the sea snake could be introduced to new emotions then so can the snake charmer. If the snake charmer is more eloquent than the sea snake, I would argue that evidences the snake charmer living as part of the tower's civilization longer than the sea snake. The difference between someone who has spent probably eons selecting princesses for the king compared to a snake whose only contact with the world has been laura.

Traumerei is described like that but Traumerei is the best Anima by far. And so far it doesn't look like he can, he hasn't controlled Humans and can't control Leviathan. It's probably just hyperbole.

The sentience isn't the problem IMO. The way I see it, as long as you can be stored into a Bowl you are a Shinheuh. That's why I believed that the Sea Snake was one and it was the case.

After thinking more I'd say that the Giant, father or the Native Ones count as a Shinheuh, his five children as well, but their descendants count as humanoid races, like the Wrathraiser and whatever we might see in the future. Ancients are legendary class Shinheuhs, same for Guardians?

The Sea Snake said he was born in mudflat and Traumerei captured him and kept him all these years. I don't believe he has met his fellows.

 

[kkck]

Traumerei is described like that but Traumerei is the best Anima by far. And so far it doesn't look like he can, he hasn't controlled Humans and can't control Leviathan. It's probably just hyperbole.

The sentience isn't the problem IMO. The way I see it, as long as you can be stored into a Bowl you are a Shinheuh. That's why I believed that the Sea Snake was one and it was the case.

After thinking more I'd say that the Giant, father or the Native Ones count as a Shinheuh, his five children as well, but their descendants count as humanoid races, like the Wrathraiser and whatever we might see in the future. Ancients are legendary class Shinheuhs, same for Guardians?

The Sea Snake said he was born in mudflat and Traumerei captured him and kept him all these years. I don't believe he has met his fellows.

I think the "human" bit actually refers to beastkin and perhaps other humans that might have mixed with other random stuff.

It sounds a tad weird that a bowl couldn't possibly contain other creatures even on a conceptual level. Specially when bowls can simply be pretty big.

Isn't the implication that rak is the same as the native ones? It'd be weird if his ancestors are shineuh but he isn't. By guardians do you mean administrators? I think it's a pretty safe bet that administrators are not shineuh.

 

[Demonspeed]

I think the "human" bit actually refers to beastkin and perhaps other humans that might have mixed with other random stuff.

It sounds a tad weird that a bowl couldn't possibly contain other creatures even on a conceptual level. Specially when bowls can simply be pretty big.

Isn't the implication that rak is the same as the native ones? It'd be weird if his ancestors are shineuh but he isn't. By guardians do you mean administrators? I think it's a pretty safe bet that administrators are not shineuh.

All the Beastkins? Then I agree.

What I mean is that if someone is seen in a Bowl then it must be a Shinheuh. Conceptually it's weird yes but it's a good indicator. Also I remember SIU saying Animas need to frequently refill Bowls with Shinsoo to keep their Shinheuhs under control or something. In general at least.

The story is that the giant split into five, then the splits got descendants. He is a direct descendant of a Native One.

Yes I was thinking about Admins but after thinking a bit more it's better to consider them as different entities entirely.