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Character Soo-Won Discussion

Trjpyo

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I think by "sins" @Trjpyo means betraying Yona and Hak...not killing people -
Yes basically, to use him to evoke feelings of pity or sadness would be stupid.
Yep. Its his betraying hak/yona. Bec before he had this depressing thought he recalled minsoo saying if hes willing to hurt her again. So its in relation to that. But his way of betraying yona involves killing her father, so its related to that also.

Why do you think that "Soo Won earns it? ("sins")" Because he killed somebody? Then nearly everybody in this series ( even the main character Yona) would deserve to die.
I never placed a judgment on his action. He himself judged his own actions and seem to be resigned to the fact that after all hes done, he doesnt deserve happiness. I could only assume he saw 'everything hes done' in a negative light and a transgression if he was able to reach such a negative conclusion like 'i dont deserve happiness'. I just went with his state of mind and thought what could happen given all this. Basing from his thoughts i kinda get the impression that he believes in karma or hes just depressed.
 
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SamuelDean

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Yep. Its his betraying hak/yona. Bec before he had this depressing thought he recalled minsoo saying if hes willing to hurt her again. So its in relation to that. But his way of betraying yona involves killing her father, so its related to that also..
That s interesting. I was curious. Most people have the argument that it is merely the fact that Soo Won killed somebody. Though like the story goes right now I don t think that they will try to take revenge.

I never placed a judgment on his action. He himself judged his own actions and seem to be resigned to the fact that after all hes done, he doesnt deserve happiness. I could only assume he saw 'everything hes done' in a negative light and a transgression if he was able to reach such a negative conclusion like 'i dont deserve happiness'. I just went with his state of mind and thought what could happen given all this. Basing from his thoughts i kinda get the impression that he believes in karma or hes just depressed.
As far as I remember he never says that he wishes to commit suicide and while he hates the fact that he betrayed Yona and Hak...I think I have never seen anything that he feels any guilt concerning the murder of King Il in itself.

So far he chose that option because he considered it was the right choice for him, though he knew he had to sacrifice the relationship with Yona and Hak.

Considering karma nearly everbody who killed a person would have to be careful, since nearly all of them killed a person. It is just that they lack the guilt Soo Won feels.
 

Mini_kinkin

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Yep. Its his betraying hak/yona. Bec before he had this depressing thought he recalled minsoo saying if hes willing to hurt her again. So its in relation to that. But his way of betraying yona involves killing her father, so its related to that also.

I never placed a judgment on his action. He himself judged his own actions and seem to be resigned to the fact that after all hes done, he doesnt deserve happiness. I could only assume he saw 'everything hes done' in a negative light and a transgression if he was able to reach such a negative conclusion like 'i dont deserve happiness'. I just went with his state of mind and thought what could happen given all this. Basing from his thoughts i kinda get the impression that he believes in karma or hes just depressed.
As far as I remember he never says that he wishes to commit suicide and while he hates the fact that he betrayed Yona and Hak...I think I have never seen anything that he feels any guilt concerning the murder of King Il in itself.
I do think he feels guilty about betraying Yona and Hak though, which is indirectly related to killing Il. It's because he killed Il that his relationship with them got ruined. But killing Il for the sake of Kouka and avenging his dad...he most surely isn't guilty about that and that's understandable. If he wasn't feeling guilty about betraying his friends, he wouldn't have said that he doesn't intend to die happily. Even the fact that when Hak was going to attack him and he froze, makes me feel now that he thought he deserved to die for what he did to them...but then Ju-Doh scolded him back into his senses, he is the King of Kouka first and needed to get it together for the sake of Kouka and do what he promised Ju-Doh and others who supported him.

But anyway, even if it is foreshadowing I would rather him not die and there be a nice ending with the three friends living in peace, even if they aren't as close as before.
 

SamuelDean

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I do think he feels guilty about betraying Yona and Hak though, which is indirectly related to killing Il. It's because he killed Il that his relationship with them got ruined. But killing Il for the sake of Kouka and avenging his dad...he most surely isn't guilty about that and that's understandable. If he wasn't feeling guilty about betraying his friends, he wouldn't have said that he doesn't intend to die happily. Even the fact that when Hak was going to attack him and he froze, makes me feel now that he thought he deserved to die for what he did to them...but then Ju-Doh scolded him back into his senses, he is the King of Kouka first and needed to get it together for the sake of Kouka and do what he promised Ju-Doh and others who supported him.

But anyway, even if it is foreshadowing I would rather him not die and there be a nice ending with the three friends living in peace, even if they aren't as close as before.
In my opinion it s interesting that Soo Won never once felt guilt when he thought about King Il.

Did King Il ever talk about the reason why he killed his brother? I think he didn t. Was the reason so wrong in Soo Won s eyes?
 

Mini_kinkin

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In my opinion it s interesting that Soo Won never once felt guilt when he thought about King Il.

Did King Il ever talk about the reason why he killed his brother? I think he didn t. Was the reason so wrong in Soo Won s eyes?
King Il seemed to be an ass to Soo-Won, killed his dad and was a bad ruler too... so I am not surprised Soo-Won didn't feel guilty about killing him, and only felt guilty about driving his friends out of the castle.
 

SamuelDean

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King Il seemed to be an ass to Soo-Won, killed his dad and was a bad ruler too... so I am not surprised Soo-Won didn't feel guilty about killing him, and only felt guilty about driving his friends out of the castle.
I wonder if it was merely that. If the reason for the murder was plausible, then I wonder if Soo Won would have killed King Il.
It is very likely that Soo Won wished to know the reason for the murder of his father.
 

Trjpyo

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As far as I remember he never says that he wishes to commit suicide and while he hates the fact that he betrayed Yona and Hak...I think I have never seen anything that he feels any guilt concerning the murder of King Il in itself.
So far he chose that option because he considered it was the right choice for him, though he knew he had to sacrifice the relationship with Yona and Hak.
Giving ones life to atone for sin does sound similar to suicide, which was what bugged me. And this is japanese, which concerned me even more.

Im interested what are those parameters he used to judge his own actions. It would seem his usual ‘for the country, make it strong’ mantra that he keeps repeating had little weight or absent for him to reach the conclusion that ‘after everything i’ve done, he doesnt expect to live peacefully or die happily’.
 

SamuelDean

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Giving ones life to atone for sin does sound similar to suicide, which was what bugged me. And this is japanese, which concerned me even more.

Im interested what are those parameters he used to judge his own actions. It would seem his usual ‘for the country, make it strong’ mantra that he keeps repeating had little weight or absent for him to reach the conclusion that ‘after everything i’ve done, he doesnt expect to live peacefully or die happily’.
I would guess that both is important to him. He knows that his deeds aren t morally right, but at the other hand they may have been necessary. I think it has something to do with the smallest evil.

About the suicide...you mean seppuku, right?
I think that this ritual has something to do with the loss of face and is a way to maintain his pride.

Though as far as I see it, he hasn t lost his pride..( more or less he maintains it by fulfilling the wishes of his father and by rescuing the country....I also don t think that it has something to do with the loss of face that he feels guilt towards Yona or Hak. More or less only because he betrayed them and he lost people he loved.
 
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Maryam mohamed

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You know when I first started this manga, I was just casually reading through it, shockingly I never fell in love with protagonist of the story (nice development tho)...but instead the antagonist (OMMMMFFFG I STILL CANT BELIEVE IT..). it first started off with a murder and betrayal...but he went on to save a county along with other people, from despair. when u judge a character u have to understand and analyze everything. Yes, yona lost a father and a home, but her life was like a bubble. he locked her up and threw away the key...let alone allow her to chose the guy she wants to marry. He said he gave her everything but to one freedom is the most important thing. people can argue that he was trying to protect her, but as we found out the fire tribe was already starting a rebellion to overthrow the king,,,she would have already been dead. Yes, the betrayal was personal, but the one to suffer the most would've been soowon. Yes Yuhon was evil and did cruel things but years later we see he changed his ways and was gladly willing to serve his brother. Around the same time king il (allegedly) killed his own brother. idk about you but that could be traumatizing for a 9 year old boy. he ripped his father from him and he only had his sick mother around (what could she do). THE 2 PEOPLE HE WAS CLOSE TO WAS AFFILIATED WITH THE MAN WHO MURDERED HIS FATHER. HOW COULD HE DISCLOSE THAT TO THEM, EVEN KNOW THEY HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING KING IL AS A BAD GUY. YONA, FATHER....AND HAK THE MAN HE LOVED WAS LOYAL TO THE KING, SO HOW COULD HE EVEN TELL HIM THAT. WE SEE SOOWON BUILD A WALL AROUND BECS HE HAD NO ONE TO TALK TO. PEOPLE ARGUE THAT HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM, BUT THERE WERE SCENES WERE HE TRIES, NO ONE PICKED UP ON IT (NOT BLAMING THEM). WE STILL DONT KNOW WHAT THE KING DID TO SOOWON THESE PAST 10 YEARS, LIKE TRY KILLING HIM ( AFTER ALL, HE BEGAN TO STOP VISITING THE CASTLE THAT OFTEN). WHO KNOWS....WE STILL DONT HAVE HIS POV. PEOPLE TEND TO HATE HIM BECS ITS FROM YONAS POV. AND I TRY TELLING MYSELF WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, HER NAME IS IN THE TITLE AND ITS HER STORY. THE CASTLE WAS 0T3 HAPPY PLACE, BUT POOR SOOWON WHENEVER HE WENT THERE HAD TO SEE THE FACE OF THE MAN HE WHO MURDERED HIS FATHER. PEOPLE ARGUE THAT HE CHOSE THE CRUELEST WAY, BUT HE WOULDNT ALLOW THEM TO GET MARRIED. HIS IGNORANCE CAUSED THE COUNTRY TO FALL APART AND HE WAS AWARE AND DIDNT DO ANYTHING. FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS HE LET THIS HAPPEN. IM NOT EXCUSING SOOWONS ACTION BUT HE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER HE TRIED TO TALK SOME SENSE INTO HIM OR NOT, BECS HE DOES TELL HIM THAT YONA IS THE REINCARNATION BUT NOT HAK????? and plus the past 10 years, soowon hasnt been plotting and planning. I believe he found out at a later time, like years later and the little jabs king il gave him...like wasn't outwardly abusing him but did tiny things like banning him from the room and allowing him from participating in tournaments. this man didn't even give soowon power like the title of general (see chapter 157.5) or allow him to participate in the tournament becs they notice him and he would start to influence people. After all he is yuhons son. Did he do this merely becs he wanted to keep him away or was he afraid. Soowon went as far as studying and getting into politics/reading books to probably prove to his uncle, but it was thrown out becs he was ignorant. SOOWON WANTED TO SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM A YOUNG AGE, BUT HIS UNCLE WAS COCK BLOCKING. ONCE AGAIN IM NOT EXCUSING HIS ACTIONS, BUT HE IS FAR FROM AN ANTAGONIST THO.

WHY AM I BRING THIS UP?
BECS I AM CONFUSED WITH THE MANGAKAS DIRECTION OF THE STORY WITH SOOWON. LILY IS HIS POSSIBLE LOVE INTEREST, BUT YONA IS HER BFF. HOW COULD SHE FALL IN LOVE WITH HER BFFS DADS MURDERER. WILL YONA BE OKAY???? ALSO THERE WILL BE AN ETHICAL DILEMMA. HOW COULD SOMEONE WHO KILLED FOR THE THRONE SIT ON IT. HE WOULDNT BE BANISHED BECS HE HAS LILY AS A LOVE INTEREST.

UNLESS THERE IS A PLOT TWIST! EXCITED.......
 

Puckyuu

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Soo won has interesting character. When he kills king Il i know that will happen. I know he is evil(first impressions) but when he flash back about his friendship with hak and yona i feel in doubt about him. I want to know about him more. I have a feeling that he feels lonely. I'm sure he know something about his father and king il. Either he forced to kill king il or not that may became plot twist. And kye sook guy, he KNEW SOMETHING i had to say that because something fishy about him. Hate him !
 

Miaw

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This thread is for all topics centered around Soo-Won's character.

Possible talking points:
  • How should he deal with Yona and Hak - is he too passive or playing it right?
  • Assessing his decisions and results as a ruler
  • Will he take a queen in the manga, and should he?
  • Your view on his character arc and future development
i'm brazilian, so maybe something is not well translated, but after the most current chapter what it seems to me is that soowon doesn't really want the throne, i have the slight feeling that he just wanted to take yona's father's throne and transform it in something stronger to be able to pass on, now why ??? i still don't understand his real intentions, and hak's latest questions make total sense, would it be worth doing all this? lose your cousin and your friend, betray the king? for what reason? Was that all his idea? Or is there someone behind? As I understand it, does he want the throne to be hak and yona, or was it just me Who understood it like this? Apparently he knew from the beginning that he was going to cause pain in some people, but it was necessary to strengthen the kingdom, even because from what we saw, even though he used horrible methods, he managed to make the kingdom grow and prosper in a short time, while King Il was kind of hated by the small villages of the kingdom, I don’t think he’s good, but I don’t think he’s bad either, he’s mysterious and it makes me anxious, I always have a strange feeling when he appears, something like Snipes but I believed he was totally bad until proven otherwise, soowon is even more difficult to read, so when he appears I get uneasy.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

You know when I first started this manga, I was just casually reading through it, shockingly I never fell in love with protagonist of the story (nice development tho)...but instead the antagonist (OMMMMFFFG I STILL CANT BELIEVE IT..). it first started off with a murder and betrayal...but he went on to save a county along with other people, from despair. when u judge a character u have to understand and analyze everything. Yes, yona lost a father and a home, but her life was like a bubble. he locked her up and threw away the key...let alone allow her to chose the guy she wants to marry. He said he gave her everything but to one freedom is the most important thing. people can argue that he was trying to protect her, but as we found out the fire tribe was already starting a rebellion to overthrow the king,,,she would have already been dead. Yes, the betrayal was personal, but the one to suffer the most would've been soowon. Yes Yuhon was evil and did cruel things but years later we see he changed his ways and was gladly willing to serve his brother. Around the same time king il (allegedly) killed his own brother. idk about you but that could be traumatizing for a 9 year old boy. he ripped his father from him and he only had his sick mother around (what could she do). THE 2 PEOPLE HE WAS CLOSE TO WAS AFFILIATED WITH THE MAN WHO MURDERED HIS FATHER. HOW COULD HE DISCLOSE THAT TO THEM, EVEN KNOW THEY HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING KING IL AS A BAD GUY. YONA, FATHER....AND HAK THE MAN HE LOVED WAS LOYAL TO THE KING, SO HOW COULD HE EVEN TELL HIM THAT. WE SEE SOOWON BUILD A WALL AROUND BECS HE HAD NO ONE TO TALK TO. PEOPLE ARGUE THAT HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM, BUT THERE WERE SCENES WERE HE TRIES, NO ONE PICKED UP ON IT (NOT BLAMING THEM). WE STILL DONT KNOW WHAT THE KING DID TO SOOWON THESE PAST 10 YEARS, LIKE TRY KILLING HIM ( AFTER ALL, HE BEGAN TO STOP VISITING THE CASTLE THAT OFTEN). WHO KNOWS....WE STILL DONT HAVE HIS POV. PEOPLE TEND TO HATE HIM BECS ITS FROM YONAS POV. AND I TRY TELLING MYSELF WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, HER NAME IS IN THE TITLE AND ITS HER STORY. THE CASTLE WAS 0T3 HAPPY PLACE, BUT POOR SOOWON WHENEVER HE WENT THERE HAD TO SEE THE FACE OF THE MAN HE WHO MURDERED HIS FATHER. PEOPLE ARGUE THAT HE CHOSE THE CRUELEST WAY, BUT HE WOULDNT ALLOW THEM TO GET MARRIED. HIS IGNORANCE CAUSED THE COUNTRY TO FALL APART AND HE WAS AWARE AND DIDNT DO ANYTHING. FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS HE LET THIS HAPPEN. IM NOT EXCUSING SOOWONS ACTION BUT HE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER HE TRIED TO TALK SOME SENSE INTO HIM OR NOT, BECS HE DOES TELL HIM THAT YONA IS THE REINCARNATION BUT NOT HAK????? and plus the past 10 years, soowon hasnt been plotting and planning. I believe he found out at a later time, like years later and the little jabs king il gave him...like wasn't outwardly abusing him but did tiny things like banning him from the room and allowing him from participating in tournaments. this man didn't even give soowon power like the title of general (see chapter 157.5) or allow him to participate in the tournament becs they notice him and he would start to influence people. After all he is yuhons son. Did he do this merely becs he wanted to keep him away or was he afraid. Soowon went as far as studying and getting into politics/reading books to probably prove to his uncle, but it was thrown out becs he was ignorant. SOOWON WANTED TO SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM A YOUNG AGE, BUT HIS UNCLE WAS COCK BLOCKING. ONCE AGAIN IM NOT EXCUSING HIS ACTIONS, BUT HE IS FAR FROM AN ANTAGONIST THO.

WHY AM I BRING THIS UP?
BECS I AM CONFUSED WITH THE MANGAKAS DIRECTION OF THE STORY WITH SOOWON. LILY IS HIS POSSIBLE LOVE INTEREST, BUT YONA IS HER BFF. HOW COULD SHE FALL IN LOVE WITH HER BFFS DADS MURDERER. WILL YONA BE OKAY???? ALSO THERE WILL BE AN ETHICAL DILEMMA. HOW COULD SOMEONE WHO KILLED FOR THE THRONE SIT ON IT. HE WOULDNT BE BANISHED BECS HE HAS LILY AS A LOVE INTEREST.

UNLESS THERE IS A PLOT TWIST! EXCITED.......
he used a bad way to reach the throne, but he is not the real bad guy in this story, he gives me some Snapes vibes
 

SamuelDean

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I am a little bit unhappy with the whole sickness. How weird is this? He is the descendant of Hiryuu and the only thing that differes between him and a normal human being is this illness that will lead to his soon death. Genius!
 
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