Theory The 12 Supreme Grade Blades and why Roger couldn't get the One Piece.

[M3J]

Didn't Roger get the One Piece, but he couldn't do much because it was either not the right time (likely knew about Neptune) and/or because he was dying?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

didn't read all the posts but the one above is interesting 10 to be born, 15 to grow. That'll mean 25 years... But how is that Luffy? shouldn't that person by 15 years old? or is me missing my morning joe affecting my thinking.

Well 10 to be born just means the person was born 10 years after that flashback. So basically the person would need to reach the age of 15 before they were ready to start doing whatever it is that's supposed to happen.

Using known dates/timelines we know:

• Oden traveled with Roger for 1 year after leaving WB
• Oden spent 5 years in Wano post Roger pirates disbanding before getting killed by Kaido
• Oden died 20 years ago from the present timeline

Based on the above that means that means we know the flashback happened at least 26 years ago (Oden dead 20 years + Oden spent 5 years in Wano post Roger pirates disbanding) and at most 27 years ago (in case the flashback happened right after Oden joined them).

This means whoever the person being referenced was born 16-17 years prior to the current timeline (this is 10 years after the flashback). Based on the context of all this I'd say it was referencing Shirahoshi who is currently 16 years old.

 

[Fox666]

The second Seovereign is Luffy. Oda had put it right there in plain sight.

Read chapter 626 -the Fishmen Island legend that Queen Otihme states that a person be born with the power to guide shirahoshi, which is Luffy power to make allies.

https://tcbscans.com/chapters/1079/one-piece-chapter-626-review-1685612419

Chapter 647 reveals Luffy is that person from who othime and the fishmen island legend was talking about

One Piece Chapter 647 | TCB Scans

tcbscans.com

Chapter 649- Neptune Talks about somebody joyboy 800 years ago saying someone(Luufy) wil fulfill his promise in the future.
https://tcbscans.com/chapters/1102/one-piece-chapter-649-review-1685612419

Chapter 654- The Whales are happy after Shirahoshi and Luffy have met, just as the seakings said would happen in Roger's flashback.
https://tcbscans.com/chapters/1108/one-piece-chapter-654-review-1685612419


Chapter 968- The Seakings talk about the two sovereigns being born in the future meeting and the whales being happy

https://tcbscans.com/chapters/113/one-piece-chapter-968-review-1685612418

They don't really say it's Luffy.

In fact, the Sea Kings said they helped Luffy merely because Shirahoshi asked them.

 

[kkck]

They say "and another, in a distant sea.. the whales are delighted in anticipation". As far as we know the whales resident in the new world which is where years later the strawhats met them as they exited fishman island. Roger and oden hearing the sea kings should have happened some 26 years ago. Ten years after that should be around the time shirahoshi was born. I don't think the births of both sovereigns are necessarily supposed to match though. Given that momonosuke and the whales reside in the same sea I would guess its him that the whales are expecting. So the meeting in question would be between momonosuke and shirahoshi. It also doesn't really fit for luffy and joyboy to be sovereigns.

 

[Rmstorm]

They say "and another, in a distant sea.. the whales are delighted in anticipation". As far as we know the whales resident in the new world which is where years later the strawhats met them as they exited fishman island. Roger and oden hearing the sea kings should have happened some 26 years ago. Ten years after that should be around the time shirahoshi was born. I don't think the births of both sovereigns are necessarily supposed to match though. Given that momonosuke and the whales reside in the same sea I would guess its him that the whales are expecting. So the meeting in question would be between momonosuke and shirahoshi. It also doesn't really fit for luffy and joyboy to be sovereigns.

Chapter 626 directly states that the births of the sovereign are supposed to match. And Momo was already born so he is already disqualified from being the sovereign. Chapter 968

Not just that but chapter 968 in my previous post said that the second Sovereign WOULD BE BORN IN A DISTANT SEA.( AKA EAST BLUE). New World and Paradise ARE NOT DISTANT SEAS.


Chapter 626

Not just that, chapter 647 as stated and shown by the seakings means the prophecy of shirahoshi meeting Luffy (Joyboy) was complete.

 

[hokageji]

They don't really say it's Luffy.

In fact, the Sea Kings said they helped Luffy merely because Shirahoshi asked them.

It'll be funny if it turns out to be Usopp.... but you know Shounen and the japanese audience love the story of destiny. Its got to be Luffy if even they dont say so.

 

[Hrathgrath]

What makes a sword a different grade is left ambiguous. Obviously, a black blade doesn't make a difference, as Ryuuma's sword was black, but not supreme. That means that they are graded either by construction (materials and method) or history. Probably both. I also have reason to believe that the more haki is used in a blade, the stronger it becomes. We've been told that a blade can become black through use, and we know that haki can make a blade black, at least temporarily. I think the sentience of a sword is dependant upon the haki used with it.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Roger found the One Piece, not sure why this is even a theory.
What Roger didn't do is fulfil the One Piece.

The manga already tells us what the One Piece is, it's the Void Century and the goal of knowing about the Void Century is to solve the issue of slavery, racism and dictatorships in order to bring about freedom for all.

Roger couldn't fulfil One Piece BECAUSE:

1. Poseidon wasn't around during his era, she wasn't born and wouldn't unlock her powers until 20 years later. Poseidon is needed to move Noah supposedly to get the Fishmen to the surface.
2. Someone had to be born to interact with Poseidon which is why Roger decided to have a Kid in hopes he'd be the one... turns out it was Luffy.
3. Someone was also needed to interpret the Poneglyph to Luffy which should have been Momonosuke, but Robin now plays that role.
4. Also, someone to control Zunisha who is related to Pluton and opening Wano's borders.

If anything, they key to One Piece is being a D which is why the WG have hunted down D members and killed them off. Roger gave birth to Ace because thought he'd be chosen.
When Roger spoke to Whitebeard in his final days, he spoke about the significance of the D initial which is why... the WG changed Gol D to Gold because the D initial is important in terms of fulfilling the One Piece. It's why they're regarded as God's greatest enemies.

I find this theory about weapons and swords and contrived numbers convoluted, arbitrary and pretty much unfounded. If one just follows the evidence, it pretty much explains itself and is simple.

 

[Fox666]

The manga already tells us what the One Piece is, it's the Void Century and the goal of knowing about the Void Century is to solve the issue of slavery, racism and dictatorships in order to bring about freedom for all.

Didn't the talk between Rayleigh and the Straw Hats makes it clear the One Piece is not the void century?

Rayleigh confirmed he know the void century, but a big deal was made about Usopp asking if the One Piece was even real or not later

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Didn't the talk between Rayleigh and the Straw Hats makes it clear the One Piece is not the void century?

Rayleigh confirmed he know the void century, but a big deal was made about Usopp asking if the One Piece was even real or not later

Rayleigh never said what it was or wasn't.

Him saying he knows about the Void Century isn't the same as saying One Piece isn't the Void Century.

In WCI, Tamago said in chapter 846:

1. 4 Road Poneglyphs lead to RAFTEL where 9 specific Poneglyphs are combined to give the true history which is the One Piece.
2. Knowledge about One Piece is how people acquire the Knowledge of the Void and Location of the Ancient Weapons.

What Roger also said was not that he didn't find the One Piece, but he arrived too early. It can't be anything to do with a Sword.

Entire reason the WG don't want people reading Poneglyphs is because that's where the One Piece is at, and the only thing at Raftel are these 9 Poneglyph that reveal the True History and Ancient Weapons.

 

[McNuss]

It also doesn't really fit for luffy and joyboy to be sovereigns.

There is a giant Strawhat in Mary Geoise, that would fit someone who would also fit onto the Empty Throne. And the Sun is missing from the naming pattern of Imu Nerona, Gorosei, Ancient Weapons and Pangea Castle. Planets orbit around the Sun, not the moon.

However, Luffy is not a giant, his hair isn't white and his eyebrows don't curl. Gear Five is also not the final power-up, Gear "R" is.
Oda also said around the time Wano Arc was conceptualized, that he does not like men wearing white. Luffy is very unlikely to be the descendant of that person.

We know Joyboy is someone who fucked up, someone who broke a certain promise, and once you realize Nika's description fits Sanji much more than it does Luffy, and the fact that Oda shoved in a shit ton of weddings... including one for Nami, who was engaged to a "King" (with Sanji's powers, similar visuals and a bad take on his habits), and who looks like Shirahoshi, or rather the other way around...

The manga already tells us what the One Piece is, it's the Void Century and the goal of knowing about the Void Century is to solve the issue of slavery, racism and dictatorships in order to bring about freedom for all.

No. This is not the One Piece. The Manga indeed has given it away multiple times, but you cannot reach that from the text.

What you can infer from the text though is that the revelation of a true history wouldn't change a damn thing. The Tenryubito are not popular at all, but most people have wealthy lives and are certainly not bothered by geopolitics, and those who are not wealthy lack the ressources to do anything.
There is already quite a successful uprising going on though, no One Piece needed.

The Pirates who reject the WG, most of them are selfish bums without a political agenda, and those shown to have one like Big Mom or Crocodile crave for power for themselves.
Pirates also create dictatorship, racism and tyranny all on their own, this isn't just coming from the WG, so why would the revelation of an ancient crime change anything about that? You cannot solve these problems with a story at all.

 

[Hrathgrath]

There is a giant Strawhat in Mary Geoise, that would fit someone who would also fit onto the Empty Throne. And the Sun is missing from the naming pattern of Imu Nerona, Gorosei, Ancient Weapons and Pangea Castle. Planets orbit around the Sun, not the moon.

However, Luffy is not a giant, his hair isn't white and his eyebrows don't curl. Gear Five is also not the final power-up, Gear "R" is.
Oda also said around the time Wano Arc was conceptualized, that he does not like men wearing white. Luffy is very unlikely to be the descendant of that person.

We know Joyboy is someone who fucked up, someone who broke a certain promise, and once you realize Nika's description fits Sanji much more than it does Luffy, and the fact that Oda shoved in a shit ton of weddings... including one for Nami, who was engaged to a "King" (with Sanji's powers, similar visuals and a bad take on his habits), and who looks like Shirahoshi, or rather the other way around...



No. This is not the One Piece. The Manga indeed has given it away multiple times, but you cannot reach that from the text.

What you can infer from the text though is that the revelation of a true history wouldn't change a damn thing. The Tenryubito are not popular at all, but most people have wealthy lives and are certainly not bothered by geopolitics, and those who are not wealthy lack the ressources to do anything.
There is already quite a successful uprising going on though, no One Piece needed.

The Pirates who reject the WG, most of them are selfish bums without a political agenda, and those shown to have one like Big Mom or Crocodile crave for power for themselves.
Pirates also create dictatorship, racism and tyranny all on their own, this isn't just coming from the WG, so why would the revelation of an ancient crime change anything about that? You cannot solve these problems with a story at all.

To be fair, Luffy is one of those "selfish bums with no political agenda". He's a good dude, but his whole view of being a pirate is being able to do what he wants. We're just lucky that what he wants to be is a good dude.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

Roger found the One Piece, not sure why this is even a theory.
What Roger didn't do is fulfil the One Piece.

The manga already tells us what the One Piece is, it's the Void Century and the goal of knowing about the Void Century is to solve the issue of slavery, racism and dictatorships in order to bring about freedom for all.

Roger couldn't fulfil One Piece BECAUSE:

1. Poseidon wasn't around during his era, she wasn't born and wouldn't unlock her powers until 20 years later. Poseidon is needed to move Noah supposedly to get the Fishmen to the surface.
2. Someone had to be born to interact with Poseidon which is why Roger decided to have a Kid in hopes he'd be the one... turns out it was Luffy.
3. Someone was also needed to interpret the Poneglyph to Luffy which should have been Momonosuke, but Robin now plays that role.
4. Also, someone to control Zunisha who is related to Pluton and opening Wano's borders.

If anything, they key to One Piece is being a D which is why the WG have hunted down D members and killed them off. Roger gave birth to Ace because thought he'd be chosen.
When Roger spoke to Whitebeard in his final days, he spoke about the significance of the D initial which is why... the WG changed Gol D to Gold because the D initial is important in terms of fulfilling the One Piece. It's why they're regarded as God's greatest enemies.

I find this theory about weapons and swords and contrived numbers convoluted, arbitrary and pretty much unfounded. If one just follows the evidence, it pretty much explains itself and is simple.

As we usually do, I agree with you on the broad strokes: One Piece is the "missing piece of history" all in one place. As for D, all we know is that they are called "Enemy of God" or something along those lines, implying they are enemies of the Celestial Dragons, or at least their ancestors were. It's possible that you might need to be connected to that kingdom to get the full story, but there's no actual evidence of that. I think they are the families of nobility in that Ancient Kingdom, or possibly families of great military power within the kingdom, seeing as how every D we've run into has been strong.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

No. This is not the One Piece. The Manga indeed has given it away multiple times, but you cannot reach that from the text.

The texts literally tell us.

Tamago said:

• 4 Road Ponegylphs lead to Laughtale.
• Where the REAL PONEGLPYHS resides which are the 9 or so Poneglyphs that detail the history of the world that the WG want hidden as well as Ancient Weapons.

Even Whitebeard pretty much said it, he said when One Piece is found, that person who finds it will carry the weight of history on his shoulder. History is on the poneglyphs.

EVEYTHING the WG does is to stop people from finding the history, so we know for sure One Piece are the Poneglyphs carrying the history. Everything they do is to oppose this.

Pirates also create dictatorship, racism and tyranny all on their own, this isn't just coming from the WG, so why would the revelation of an ancient crime change anything about that? You cannot solve these problems with a story at all.

You can if you read the story, it's been pretty much stated multiple times.
Your argument is like asking why would the WG hide the fact IMU is the King of the world... it changes nothing? You missed the picture if you don't get it.

Ironic question when the WG's so scared of people reading Poneglyphs when that's what the Poneglyphs reveal. Clearly, this Ancient Crime is such a big deal that even 800 years later, they're still scared it will come back to haunt them and they've put so much measures in place simply to stop people reading.

Pirates are dictators, but you also don't seem to realise the WG are the biggest dictators, they just disguise it under propaganda and the Navy which helps in padding their "righteous image".

The WG came into power, 20 kings united to become the gods of this world.
In order to maintain power, you do know there are almost 200 countries associated with the WG?
They rely on the WG for:

1. PROTECTION
2. They PAY the WG money keeping them wealthy.
3. In exchange for the protection from Pirates, the world views them as a reliable authority to follow.

The WG conned the world and in order to maintain this con, they must make sure the truth doesn't come out.

Reality is the WG are evil, they committed a lot of atrocities in order to become as powerful as they are, and the WG cannot allow the truth of their actions to be revealed, otherwise all 170 countries will decide to stop affiliating with the WG which will lose them both money and power.
Furthermore, it will turn many countries against them.

Lying is a great way to get people or groups to follow you without having to be forceful which requires a lot of resources, the moment the truth is revealed, their hold on the world would crumble significantly.

They can't even tell the world IMU is the real leader of the world because all 170 countries think this is a Democratic system where they all contribute in how the world runs when in reality, it's a charade.
Once the WG's lies are revealed, even the Navy will possibly lose affiliation with the Celestial Dragons.

Part of the reason the WG even call for balance is because Pirates actually benefit them, they give them an opponent to call evil, so as long as the 4 Emperors exist, balance exists, and their role & propaganda is further fortified.

This is why Luffy being a hero is so important to the story. He is a Pirate who the world views as a hero, He goes from place to place ending tyrannies. If this supposed Pirate is a Hero, they'd trust this Pirate.
This Pirate ends up finding the One Piece and telling the world the true history with Robin .... they'd believe him because he is a Hero who has done good all over the world.

No way a story can have 1000+ chapters and you really think the story doesn't give us enough information to know what One Piece is, at this point, I don't see how it's still a question.

There are tonnes of hints and evidence regarding what One Piece is - https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/pandoras-box-one-piece.3004305/

 

[kkck]

To be fair, Luffy is one of those "selfish bums with no political agenda". He's a good dude, but his whole view of being a pirate is being able to do what he wants. We're just lucky that what he wants to be is a good dude.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

Like that one time at sky island when the strawhats went "fuck it, we are pirates" and attempted to rob the skypeians of their cultural heritage. Which played ofr laughs when they attempted to gift the strawhats a comical amount of gold in the middle of a daring escape..

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

As we usually do, I agree with you on the broad strokes: One Piece is the "missing piece of history" all in one place. As for D, all we know is that they are called "Enemy of God" or something along those lines, implying they are enemies of the Celestial Dragons, or at least their ancestors were. It's possible that you might need to be connected to that kingdom to get the full story, but there's no actual evidence of that. I think they are the families of nobility in that Ancient Kingdom, or possibly families of great military power within the kingdom, seeing as how every D we've run into has been strong.

The people of D are the only people called the enemies of god.
We know the Celestial Dragons view every race as slaves, so their being enemies is for something distinct.

It also isn't strength, they're not outstanding in strength, Law's parents were doctors, his sister, but they were weak. Strength is not a quality of a D., we just happen to know strong D. clan members because we're being introduced to Pirates on the Grandline. Literally everyone on the Grandline is strong.
If Strength was what made a group of people their greatest enemy, then Elbaph giants would be their worst enemy because we know even Big Mom wouldn't challenge the Giants because their military power is so great they pose a threat to even Emperors, even the WG didn't want anything to do with them.

Being D. seems to be heavily suggested as a requirement.
Roger decided to have a kid once he learned about One Piece in hopes he'd be Joyboy suggesting being a D is important.
Roger told Whitebeard everything, and Ace was adopted by Whitebeard because he was a D and can't be coincidence he tried to raise him in becoming Pirate King.
Whitebeard also mentioned that Teach a D wasn't the one Roger was waiting for.

We have also seen Ds have special abilities, both Luffy and Roger are the only ones who have the VOAT ability besides Ancient Weapons and Momo who is possibly an Ancient Weapon too.

Roger also told Whitebeard being D had a special meaning and the WG have gone out of their way to find D named people and kill them, except in Garp's case as he benefits them military-power wise.

Furthermore, even Robin, someone heavily related to Poneglyphs sees there is significance in D, it logically can't be strength, it has to be something related to One Piece, and so far, it looks like in order to fulfil the One Piece and communicate with these Ancient Weapons, it looks like being a D is required.

Anything the WG is vehemently against pretty much tells us that thing is necessary in uncovering the truth of the One Piece and Ancient History + Weapons.

We just literally had Saturn complain about Luffy's D initial being present in his poster along with the Nika picture, something also related to finding the One Piece.

 

[McNuss]

The texts literally tell us.

Tamago said:

• 4 Road Ponegylphs lead to Laughtale.
• Where the REAL PONEGLPYHS resides which are the 9 or so Poneglyphs that detail the history of the world that the WG want hidden as well as Ancient Weapons.

Even Whitebeard pretty much said it, he said when One Piece is found, that person who finds it will carry the weight of history on his shoulder. History is on the poneglyphs.

EVEYTHING the WG does is to stop people from finding the history, so we know for sure One Piece are the Poneglyphs carrying the history. Everything they do is to oppose this.

No, it has always been your inference that the Riu Poneplyph is the One Piece.
The One Piece is detailled on the Riu Poneglyph, but it is not the history itself.

I think most readers have discerned that it must be a task requiring the Ancient Weapons and Noah.
Would Roger have laughed about a story of atrocious evil? The One Piece is about hope, it is about message and not warning.

I am the only one though that knows what it is. You cannot find this in the text, at least not when analyzing it like a linguist, because that is not how you should read a comic in the first place.

No way a story can have 1000+ chapters and you really think the story doesn't give us enough information to know what One Piece is, at this point, I don't see how it's still a question.

It isn't for me, because I know what it is, what must be done and what will happen then

There are tonnes of hints and evidence regarding what One Piece is

Yes, and all have been missed.

all 170 countries think this is a Democratic system where they all contribute in how the world runs when in reality, it's a charade.

No one thinks that, and only the top 50 countries get to participate in global politics. They are all aware they are under aristocratic rule based on bloodright, and that's the way most of them govern themselves, too.

The reason why Imu is hidden is because otherwise it can't be the Empty Throne. It indeed seems to never have been an Empty Throne, but it was never build for Imu either.

 

[DocDoak]

I am the only one though that knows what it is.

Do you mean around this forum or in the whole wide world?

Do you even know how strange and self righteous it sounds when you keep talking like that?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The One Piece is detailled on the Riu Poneglyph, but it is not the history itself.

It is.

You do realise the 4 Road Poneglyphs lead to the Rio = Meaning REAL Poneglyphs which have the true history?

That's what Robin is looking to read.

The entire story is literally about covering up history, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2023 ---

No one thinks that, and only the top 50 countries get to participate in global politics.

Man, just look up the wikia at least.

170 countries are part of the WG.

50 Paricipate in the Reverie, doesn't mean there aren't 170 allied nations.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2023 ---

You cannot find this in the text, at least not when analyzing it like a linguist, because that is not how you should read a comic in the first place.

This is a ridiculous statement.
A comic is basically a story with pictures.
To say you shouldn't find all the information you need within a story, and more so, 1 with 1,000 chapters is absurd.
You know what, I'll call it agree to disagree, I can't argue with you because your reasoning is such that we might as well be speaking in different languages, lol.

 

[McNuss]

It is.

You do realise the 4 Road Poneglyphs lead to the Rio = Meaning REAL Poneglyphs which have the true history?

That's what Robin is looking to read.

The entire story is literally about covering up history, lol.

Honestly, you are the only one who think the One Piece isn't some kind of task, ever since Fishman Island at least.

Man, just look up the wikia at least.

170 countries are part of the WG.

50 Paricipate in the Reverie, doesn't mean there aren't 170 allied nations.

Man, read the comment properly at least.

No one thinks that, and only the top 50 countries get to participate in global politics.

Top out of what? I never denied there being 170 countries, this is a reply to your comment and can only be understood as such.

This is a ridiculous statement.
A comic is basically a story with pictures.
To say you shouldn't find all the information you need within a story, and more so, 1 with 1,000 chapters is absurd.
You know what, I'll call it agree to disagree, I can't argue with you because your reasoning is such that we might as well be speaking in different languages, lol.

Yeah but you are treating it like a novel, you are pretty much ignoring the pictures.

A comic consists of speech and artwork.