The Israel-Palestine crisis

[shionoro]

Because they're fucked up and think Palestine belongs to them and want to commit ethnic cleansing?

And why? Are Israelis categorically bad people, or at least the majority of them?

 

[M3J]

Yes they are, except for the ones who don't support Zionism and actually take a stand against it despite knowing what it could do to their lives.

 

[shionoro]

Yes they are, except for the ones who don't support Zionism and actually take a stand against it despite knowing what it could do to their lives.

At the point where you think Israelis are just categorically bad people without any reason, you remind me of the republicans i argue with and who blame black culture and liberals for everything.

 

[M3J]

"without any reason"

Just say you don't like the reasons.

 

[mrsticky005]

How does this whole settlement thing work anyways?

I mean don’t the Israeli settlers have to purchase the land? Who is actually being paid for the land if not the Palestinians?

 

[M3J]

Israelis are kicking Palestinians out of their homes and living in it, basically stealing it.

 

[mrsticky005]

Israelis are kicking Palestinians out of their homes and living in it, basically stealing it.

I am asking HOW is that being done?

Does some Israeli settler just knock on some Palestinian’s front door and say
“Pack your bags” and then make themselves at home?
I doubt it because that is a good way to get shot. So most likely the Israeli military does the actual “kicking out” but soldiers have to get paid. So are the settlers using the military as hired goons to do their dirty work?

how does it all work?

 

[M3J]

I am asking HOW is that being done?

Does some Israeli settler just knock on some Palestinian’s front door and say
“Pack your bags” and then make themselves at home?
I doubt it because that is a good way to get shot. So most likely the Israeli military does the actual “kicking out” but soldiers have to get paid. So are the settlers using the military as hired goons to do their dirty work?

how does it all work?

‘If I don’t steal your home someone else will’, settler says

Video shows Palestinian woman confronting Jewish settler in her family home in occupied East Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah.

www.aljazeera.com

Palestinians fear loss of family homes as evictions loom

Dozens of Palestinian families in east Jerusalem are at risk of losing their homes to Jewish settler groups following a decades-long legal battle

abcnews.go.com

Why are Jewish settlers ousting Palestinians in East Jerusalem?

In an attempt to replace Palestinians with Jewish settlers in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood, an Israeli court has ordered at least a dozen families to hand over their homes in occupied East Jerusalem.

www.trtworld.com

 

[mrsticky005]

‘If I don’t steal your home someone else will’, settler says

Video shows Palestinian woman confronting Jewish settler in her family home in occupied East Jerusalem’s Sheikh Jarrah.

www.aljazeera.com

Palestinians fear loss of family homes as evictions loom

Dozens of Palestinian families in east Jerusalem are at risk of losing their homes to Jewish settler groups following a decades-long legal battle

abcnews.go.com

Why are Jewish settlers ousting Palestinians in East Jerusalem?

In an attempt to replace Palestinians with Jewish settlers in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood, an Israeli court has ordered at least a dozen families to hand over their homes in occupied East Jerusalem.

www.trtworld.com

Yakub is wrong.

If he DOES steal their home then he is encouraging others that stealing land is ok.

which it isn’t.

 

[shionoro]

"without any reason"

Just say you don't like the reasons.

What i am saying is that a conflict cannot be solved if you do not understand the viewpoint of the side you want to change.

 

[M3J]

That's nonsense in this case, especially when the other side doesn't care to change anything and would rather commit ethnic cleansing and stealing land.

 

[Raven]

I am asking HOW is that being done?

Does some Israeli settler just knock on some Palestinian’s front door and say
“Pack your bags” and then make themselves at home?
I doubt it because that is a good way to get shot. So most likely the Israeli military does the actual “kicking out” but soldiers have to get paid. So are the settlers using the military as hired goons to do their dirty work?

how does it all work?

In the past, Zionists were like armed small groups that would kill and steal and takeover lands and houses by the help of the UK mandate, Now, By the Israeli government, The Israeli courts basically reject the house ownership of the Palestinians and give to the Israelis for literally no money. If Palestinians refused to leave, They threw them out from their homes by brute force. If an Israeli refused to take it, The ownership would transfer to another Israeli.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

What i am saying is that a conflict cannot be solved if you do not understand the viewpoint of the side you want to change.

So how does this apply to Israel v Palestine?

How empathetic are the state players/IDF towards their open-air prisoners? Do they not seek to understand their viewpoint, not care even if they did, or do they simply not wish to solve the divide?

Hint: getting their way only isn't a 'solution'... unless it's a final one.

 

[mrsticky005]

In the past, Zionists were like armed small groups that would kill and steal and takeover lands and houses by the help of the UK mandate, Now, By the Israeli government, The Israeli courts basically reject the house ownership of the Palestinians and give to the Israelis for literally no money. If Palestinians refused to leave, They threw them out from their homes by brute force. If an Israeli refused to take it, The ownership would transfer to another Israeli.

Has the Israeli government ever considered paying the Palestinians a large sum of money
to leave their homes peacefully?

Yeah I know why pay when you can steal
but clearly the cost of stealing the land is a lot more than had they just paid for it.

 

[Raven]

Has the Israeli government ever considered paying the Palestinians a large sum of money
to leave their homes peacefully?

Yeah I know why pay when you can steal
but clearly the cost of stealing the land is a lot more than had they just paid for it.

I don't know honestly, But i doubt the majority of Palestinians will accept money to leave their home. They love their home because Palestine is a holy land. Having a home there is something you can't compensate to them. For example, In a place like Jerusalem where Al-Aqsa mosque is there and considered very holy just like A-Qaba in Saudi Arabia for muslims. Being close to that Mosque is basically being close to god or something.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2021, Original Post Date: May 24, 2021 ---

750k-900k Palestinains were forced to leave the whole country and became refugees in 1949 because they got kicked from their homes.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2021 ---

this video explain it best for t why they stick to their homes

 

[shionoro]

So how does this apply to Israel v Palestine?

How empathetic are the state players/IDF towards their open-air prisoners? Do they not seek to understand their viewpoint, not care even if they did, or do they simply not wish to solve the divide?

Hint: getting their way only isn't a 'solution'... unless it's a final one.

This applies because to solve the conflict, you need to understand what makes the actors tick.

YOu need to understand that you will not be able to sway Israel away from growing ever more rightwing if you do not accept its right for self defense and safety, even in the wake of atrocities. Because then they are simply not going to talk to you and you lose influence.
What you need to do is to assure israel's safety so people like netanyahu or worse are not able to escalate the conflict when it suits them just like that. The only way to get israel more liberal is via votes and if you become antagonistic of israel (perceived in israel), then you make israel grow more right wing, which means more dead Palestinians.
The biggest argument for israel to do what it does is safety. Even the israelis who do not want war and who do not want palestinians to die do not feel safe and think of it as a necessary evil and you have to work to take that fang from the right wingers.

On the flipside, palestine runs via aid. If you cut aid, like trump did, you lose any sway over them. That means you have to be a player assuring them of getting resources if you want to have influence over them. You need to work with egypt and jordan for that, too, as two forces that are more likely to be able to negotiate with israel than western countries are.

The problem is that both of it seems mutually exclusive. Israel sees its existence threatened by aid for palestine because terrorists abuse that aid. But on the other hand, giving israel assurances of safety then means to cut aid and thus being antagonistic towards palestine and letting its civilians suffer for it.

If somebody is not able to see that complex (even more complex than that, with iran, egypt and syria in the mix) situation and think calmly about which steps to take towards a solution, he will become part of the problem.

All the people running around now screaming that israel is the only aggressor and should just take missiles because 'they have an irondrome anyway' are going to make the problem worse because rightwingers in israel can easily use these messages to make the moderate israelis more scared, because they can paint a picture of a hostile environment and israel being alone in the world/having to defend itself by all means.

 

[M3J]

All I see is, "let's defend Israel and them starting conflicts first! We need to understand why they're justified in kicking Palestinians off Palestine land and committing genocide against Palestine! Palestine is not allowed to defend themselves, they should allow themselves to be murdered and rendered homeless!"

Right wing Israelis and zionists don't need any help in convincing moderates, it seems brainwashing has done enough of that.

 

[shionoro]

All I see is, "let's defend Israel and them starting conflicts first! We need to understand why they're justified in kicking Palestinians off Palestine land and committing genocide against Palestine! Palestine is not allowed to defend themselves, they should allow themselves to be murdered and rendered homeless!"

Right wing Israelis and zionists don't need any help in convincing moderates, it seems brainwashing has done enough of that.

You are sorely mistaken on that. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-attitudes-of-israeli-arabs-005-present

Most people in Israel want a peaceful solution, a third even believe in it. It is consensus in Israel that there is discrimination against arabs and christians. Most people in Israel want peace, including the arabs. Most people want to get along with their arab or israeli neighbours.
They just do not know how.

And there are people who make them think the only solution is to keep doing what they do. By making the international environemtn seem more hostile, you help them with that.

 

[Raven]

They arrested 10 years old boy for throwing rocks at them. The little girl crying to get back her friend while her sisters are trying to calm her down, She knows that he might not come back. They are telling her to get his father in exchange for him.
Pathetic!

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2021, Original Post Date: May 24, 2021 ---

Whats happening in Jersulem right now is mass arrest for the youth, It's for fending them off in the last clash, Each male or female has to pay up 4 to 7k dollars as a retribution. They caught up to 500 person right now, meanwhile, Settlers are storming Al-Aqsa mosque and deform wall painting while being heavily guarded by police.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2021 ---

Facebook asked apple to remove the low rating on their App store, Since people all over the world has been mass 1 star rating them since the recent events, But Apple refused to reset the rating.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2021 ---

Court cases for the eviction of the Palestinians from Jersulem has been delayed, Whether they will proceed in taking their homes or not, It's not clear. While, Hamas is warning that they are ready for another clash if things got escalated again.

 

[M3J]

You are sorely mistaken on that. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-attitudes-of-israeli-arabs-005-present

Most people in Israel want a peaceful solution, a third even believe in it. It is consensus in Israel that there is discrimination against arabs and christians. Most people in Israel want peace, including the arabs. Most people want to get along with their arab or israeli neighbours.
They just do not know how.

And there are people who make them think the only solution is to keep doing what they do. By making the international environemtn seem more hostile, you help them with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that link does not seem to have the thoughts of Zionists in Israel. Thus I seem to not be wrong at all.

Would be easy to get along if Zionists stopped trying to kill Palestinians or evict them from their homes. You help with Israel committing murders and getting away with it by refusing to hold them accountable.