Match Weekly Match-up thread (Mares vs QP)

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winners

Yukimura Seiichi / Tokugawa Kazuya

​

With D2 in Japan vs Spain done, let's move onto the 30th round!:

Mares performed admirably against Kintarou's evolved TnK. How would he fair against QP's God Aura?

Picture	Mares Hardy Tuesday at 2:09 AM	QP Hardy Oct 16, 2023
Name	Mares de Colón	QP
Title	Sniper	Quality of Perfect
Rank	Spain Representative (HSer Year 3)	Germany Representative (HSer Year 2)
Height	-	177cm
Weight	-	63kg
Dominant Hand	Right	Left
Playstyle	-	All Rounder
Stat Total	-	-
Speed	-	-
Power	-	-
Stamina	-	-
Mental	-	-
Technique	-	-
Techniques / Styles	Sniper Real Sniper Francotirador White Flame	Ultimate Quality Aura

QP's 23.5 profile

Poll will be up on Wednesday.

 

[-Ken-]

Oni broke his wrists since "he returned it carelessly" according to QP. Mares and Seda's rackets just kept flying away, the serves had little impact on them.

Ochi cannot use Mach every game, it's explained in his match against Greece.

The score line is for me what's most important because that's clear what Konomi intend the level to be. Tanegashima couldn't do anything more than losing 1-7 to Kintarou/Ohmagari even when they apparently cannot return Mu. They're going even to even here and so for me Konomi intend Kintarou+non G5 level to be equal to Mares/Seda. If Kintarou cannot return it then do you think Mares is invincible in singles below QP level or something?

It's you're simply analyzing by score and whether serve is kept you'll see something weird happen, like Niou/Atobe vs Ochi/Mouri match.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

The score line is for me what's most important because that's clear what Konomi intend the level to be.

I semi agree Ken. But using this logic.
That only score matters. And ignoring any other x factors.

Then Konomi Intended for Base Ralph to be stronger than Base Ryoga. Since Base Ralph Beats Base Ryoga 6-2 in First set.

And neck in neck in second set.

Before Ryoga decided to use his Consume Hax in 3rd set.

 

[Hardy]

The score line is for me what's most important because that's clear what Konomi intend the level to be. Tanegashima couldn't do anything more than losing 1-7 to Kintarou/Ohmagari even when they apparently cannot return Mu. They're going even to even here and so for me Konomi intend Kintarou+non G5 level to be equal to Mares/Seda.

WDYM with the scoreline? How did Tanegashima lose 1-7?

Maybe? Regardless, after Kin-Ohmagari got the momentum swing, it seems to have stabilised since they went to a tie-break, it wasn't a blowout.

Unfortunately we didn't get to see anyone serve once but based on the positioning of the players it seems to have played as:

At 0-4, Tanegashima serves. Since Ohmagari also falls back, he lets Shiraishi take control of the match and doesn't take the initiative, but they actually lose the game to an improved Kin (we see the final point).
At 1-4 Kin serves and keeps his game.
At 2-4 Shiraishi serves and his serve is broken since the other team has the momentum.
3-4 Ohmagari serves and keeps his serve.
4-4 Tanegashima serves and keeps his serve.
4-5 Kin serves and keeps his serve. (We see the final point)
5-5 Shiraishi serves and keeps his serve.
5-6 Ohmagari serves and keeps his serve.
Tie-break (We see the final point)

Unless I missed something. So they really only got their service games broken once after that first game we saw (twice counting it) and won 2 games, far from a 6-0. What bugs me is that in any scenario Tanegashima-Shiraishi were losing 15-40 in that first game already, even though we see them have the advantage story wise, but based on positioning it seems to be correct. If it's Tanegashima's serve at 1-4 then he can be serious after losing a game and Mu his way to win 6-4. Added to the fact that the 5-5 would need to be a break (on Tanegashima) rather than keeping a serve, it doesn't seem to be it.

But yeah Kintarou is extremely strong now. Kirihara would need to NOT FALL for either of Sniper and Zeus' desert in order to just stand a chance, whereas Kin is not only doing that but going beyond and winning pretty much every point.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2024, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2024 ---

It's particularly noted in that match that Ohmagari has a big advantage because he has much more experience in doubles (rather than skill). It's why Yanagi thinks the odds of them losing in the finals are 100% (the other pair has a HSer too).

If Kintarou cannot return it then do you think Mares is invincible in singles below QP level or something?

I mean, maybe? He's a Spanish rep not a scrub, and Nanjirou says in 417 that there's no one better than him.

The Spanish do mention that they hardly ever see anyone that can rally with base Mares, and this was before Mares used the real Sniper and before he unlocked WF. Edit: and before he started countering slices.

--- Double Post Merged, Friday at 2:12 PM ---

I think

Base QP and Base Oni are really not that strong in base.

Bismarck and Tanegashima have way better bases to the point that Bismarck and Tanegashima doesn't have any kind of Auras to be in Mid Tier G5 Level. They just play normal with No Auras.

Now Ultimate Aura and TNK + Demon Boost Skyrockets QP and Oni above them

Kintarou is not super strong in Base too. He needed Level 2 TNK to be boosted to Mid Tier G5 Level.

Mares Base is actually one of the strongest. That is why when Aura was not yet introduced in Germany VS Spain. Mars is selected to play against Strong Base Player in Bismarck.

Mares looked weak in the first set in last match. But Nanjirou ordered her to hold back for development of Seda. (Which Worked)

But when Base Mares said "You guys want to see real sniping?" Base Mares never lost a service game. And like what? More than 10 Service aces!!!

FWIW, they should both be really strong in base. QP is the ultimate product of Germany's academy and Oni's stats are likely around 30~ (which is better than Tanegashima's) looking at his graph, even before the Ki Jin's +3 kicks in. His lowest stat seemed to be Speed and in that graph it seems to be a 5~, I have him at like 5/7/6/6/5 = 29, his Mental might even be a 7.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

FWIW, they should both be really strong in base. QP is the ultimate product of Germany's academy and Oni's stats are likely around 30~ (which is better than Tanegashima's) looking at his graph, even before the Ki Jin's +3 kicks in. His lowest stat seemed to be Speed and in that graph it seems to be a 5~

Then, that will just boost Base Bismarck and Base Mares Even more. Lmao.

Since it is implied their bases are better. Lol

 

[-Ken-]

WDYM with the scoreline? How did Tanegashima lose 1-7?

They're leading 5-0 and then lose 7-6 to Doubles able Kintarou.

 

[Adamska]

I actually went back and checked and Ohmagari is doing something different in the last 5 chapters: he's pretty much only rallying with Mares with slices, which is relatively easy to target since he was chasing every ball. In all the points we saw in those 5 chapters, he only aimed at Seda when he had to serve.

It's not just doubles bonus, but his experience in doubles. It was remarked when he played Yukimura-Yanagi that it was his experience the one that pushed the pair forward. Compare that to Seda that is a MSer that as far as we know never played doubles in his life and is only making trick plays ala Momo.

If Kintarou >= QP in your eyes, and Kintarou cannot return Mares' snipers, how does Mares not stand a chance against QP? He will just get aced repeatedly. On that topic, is QP's serve as strong as the Volcano Serve?

I tried checking if Oni managed to return it at any point by looking at the crowds in his match, but Konomi screwed that up a bit. Also the points in which we get to see Oni running desperately are exactly 4...

--- Double Post Merged, Friday at 1:49 PM, Original Post Date: Friday at 1:46 PM ---

As far as we know his base tennis isn't enough to beat TnK users. Where did you get that from? Irie thought he could had performed well against QP AND Tezuka on his own but would had lost anyway, so it was better to just completely lose to make Atobe stronger.

Oni broke his wrists and only brought up his Ki Jin at the end of the match.

I get it from the fact that, he unlocked his UQ Aura during his match vs Oni.
Are you suggesting that he got any other Aura?

 

[Hardy]

They're leading 5-0 and then lose 7-6 to Doubles able Kintarou.

They were leading 4-0 which means they lost their serve just twice in that period (likely just Shiraishi's service games since Tanegashima has less agency there and was letting him play on his own), which is more important than a raw number of games to measure strength.

I get it from the fact that, he unlocked his UQ Aura during his match vs Oni.
Are you suggesting that he got any other Aura?

No. There's a chance he simply lost those matches.

 

[Adamska]

They were leading 4-0 which means they lost their serve just twice in that period (maybe and likely just Shiraishi's service games since Tanegashima has less agency there and was letting him play on his own), which is more important than a raw number of games to measure strength.



No. There's a chance he simply lost those matches.

Yes, that could be...
Also not.
I think he can beat guy like Elmir with his base!
It is possible that he face none strong TNK users.
Like Volk 6 - 0 vs TNK Tezuka.
However that guy destroyed Q.P as well.
However last version of Q.P as mentioned during those chapters is on the same with Volk with "Time Loop".

 

[Hardy]

They were leading 4-0 which means they lost their serve just twice in that period (likely just Shiraishi's service games since Tanegashima has less agency there and was letting him play on his own), which is more important than a raw number of games to measure strength.

Actually, I still think Tanegashima was serving in that first game they lost, since positions make sense this way and he was mostly letting Shiraishi handle everything. I quoted my own train of thought in a post before but, once again.

Maybe? Regardless, after Kin-Ohmagari got the momentum swing, it seems to have stabilised since they went to a tie-break, it wasn't a blowout.

Unfortunately we didn't get to see anyone serve once but based on the positioning of the players it seems to have played as:

At 0-4, Tanegashima serves. Since Ohmagari also falls back, he lets Shiraishi take control of the match and doesn't take the initiative, but they actually lose the game to an improved Kin (we see the final point).
At 1-4 Kin serves and keeps his game.
At 2-4 Shiraishi serves and his serve is broken since the other team has the momentum.
3-4 Ohmagari serves and keeps his serve.
4-4 Tanegashima serves and keeps his serve.
4-5 Kin serves and keeps his serve. (We see the final point)
5-5 Shiraishi serves and keeps his serve.
5-6 Ohmagari serves and keeps his serve.
Tie-break (We see the final point)

Unless I missed something. So they really only got their service games broken once after that first game we saw (twice counting it) and won 2 games, far from a 6-0. What bugs me is that in any scenario Tanegashima-Shiraishi were losing 15-40 in that first game already, even though we see them have the advantage story wise, but based on positioning it seems to be correct. If it's Tanegashima's serve at 1-4 then he can be serious after losing a game and Mu his way to win 6-4. Added to the fact that the 5-5 would need to be a break (on Tanegashima) rather than keeping a serve, it doesn't seem to be it.

But yeah Kintarou is extremely strong now. Kirihara would need to NOT FALL for either of Sniper and Zeus' desert in order to just stand a chance, whereas Kin is not only doing that but going beyond and winning pretty much every point.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2024, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2024 ---

It's particularly noted in that match that Ohmagari has a big advantage because he has much more experience in doubles (rather than skill). It's why Yanagi thinks the odds of them losing in the finals are 100% (the other pair has a HSer too).

Based on their preferred hands then it's:

Deuce Side: Tanegashima
AD Side: Shiraishi

Deuce Side: Kintarou
AD Side: Ohmagari

Serve order, then: Tanegashima-Kintarou-Shiraishi-Ohmagari-Tanegashima...

Which means that after that one unexpected point to make it 1-4, Tanegashima-Shiraishi only got their service broken one more time, in a Shiraishi service game (they won the other).

 

[-Ken-]

They were leading 4-0 which means they lost their serve just twice in that period (likely just Shiraishi's service games since Tanegashima has less agency there and was letting him play on his own), which is more important than a raw number of games to measure strength.

The score is pretty significant. 7-6, 7-5, and 6-4 are close game. The rest is not.

 

[Hardy]

Yes, that could be...
Also not.
I think he can beat guy like Elmir with his base!
It is possible that he face none strong TNK users.
Like Volk 6 - 0 vs TNK Tezuka.
However that guy destroyed Q.P as well.
However last version of Q.P as mentioned during those chapters is on the same with Volk with "Time Loop".

Yeah, at the end of the day we don't know. All that is mentioned is that he faced TnK users, not necessarily that he won against them. Keep in mind that QP didn't trust his abilities until very recently when Volk recruited him, which is in line with him losing here and there.

Volk can probably Time Loop QP. It's hard to gauge QP's Mental since he was falling victim of the pressure of Oni's Ki Jin but at the same time remained collected enough to not chase the final ball relentlessly and trusted his calculations.

--- Double Post Merged, Friday at 3:33 PM, Original Post Date: Friday at 3:33 PM ---

The score is pretty significant. 7-6, 7-5, and 6-4 are close game. The rest is not.

The match ended 7-6 so it was close, following that logic (and what we saw, really). Had it been one sided it would had never gone to tie-break, but Tanegashima-Shiraishi still won 2 more games.

 

[Adamska]

Yeah, at the end of the day we don't know. All that is mentioned is that he faced TnK users, not necessarily that he won against them. Keep in mind that QP didn't trust his abilities until very recently when Volk recruited him, which is in line with him losing here and there.

Volk can probably Time Loop QP. It's hard to gauge QP's Mental since he was falling victim of the pressure of Oni's Ki Jin but at the same time remained collected enough to not chase the final ball relentlessly and trusted his calculations.

Well this is understandable, cause he always looking for perfection in his tennis, and even one inaccurate shots makes him unhappy.
In other hand he was calm, while he was losing 9 straight game. And ofc when Volk and others warned him about that shot, yet he was calm.
To me he can go beyond "TL" but don't know about Volknado!

 

[-Ken-]

The match ended 7-6 so it was close, following that logic (and what we saw, really). Had it been one sided it would had never gone to tie-break, but Tanegashima-Shiraishi still won 2 more games.

I mean it's 2 more game to 7 at that point. 2-7 isn't a good score for me. 7-6 that Kintarou manage with a non G5 partner is.

 

[Hardy]

I mean it's 2 more game to 7 at that point. 2-7 isn't a good score for me. 7-6 that Kintarou manage with a non G5 partner is.

You can also say it went 1-1 and to the tie-break or perhaps 2-2 and to the tie-break. Wouldn't be wrong.

 

[-Ken-]

You can also say it went 1-1 and to the tie-break or perhaps 2-2 and to the tie-break. Wouldn't be wrong.

But they didn't get any upgrade before or after. It's just the amount of games they mange to win a bit in the end.

If you want to view it from your kind of argument then if anything Kintarou manager to answer Ultimate Void that put Tanegashima up on fighting Bismarck in the end so Kintarou/Ohmagari pair should have easier time on rematch even more than before.

But yeah, what I say before was right. Kintarou could get a big upgrade and people will still find ways to look down on him lol, even when he manage to fight two G5 level players with Ohmagari.

--- Double Post Merged, Friday at 6:45 PM, Original Post Date: Friday at 6:29 PM ---

And like I say before, if you're simply analyzing by score and whether serve is kept you'll see something weird happen, like Niou/Atobe vs Ochi/Mouri match in particular.

 

[Hardy]

But they didn't get any upgrade before or after. It's just the amount of games they mange to win a bit in the end.

If you want to view it from your kind of argument then if anything Kintarou manager to answer Ultimate Void that put Tanegashima up on fighting Bismarck in the end so Kintarou/Ohmagari pair should have easier time on rematch even more than before.

But yeah, what I say before was right. Kintarou could get a big upgrade and people will still find ways to look down on him lol, even when he manage to fight two G5 level players with Ohmagari.

--- Double Post Merged, Friday at 6:45 PM, Original Post Date: Friday at 6:29 PM ---

And like I say before, if you're simply analyzing by score and whether serve is kept you'll see something weird happen, like Niou/Atobe vs Ochi/Mouri match in particular.

It could very well be Tanegashima-Shiraishi adapting to Kin or just a momentum swing from which they later stabilised. Both things have happened before in the series. Konomi had them go to the tie-break for a reason, to show that it was a game of margins rather than a blowout as you are saying.

Tanegashima would likely change his approach from the get go instead of trying to boost Shiraishi in a rematch, we cannot know.

Not looking down on Kintarou at all, I'm a huge fan of where his character went in these chapters. You can 180 and say you are looking down on Ohmagari and Mares.

Niou/Atobe was like, one thing. Those rarely ever happen. Konomi is rather consistent with simple stuff like "he kept the serve or didn't".

 

[-Ken-]

It could very well be Tanegashima-Shiraishi adapting to Kin or just a momentum swing from which they later stabilised. Both things have happened before in the series. Konomi had them go to the tie-break for a reason, to show that it was a game of margins rather than a blowout as you are saying.

Tanegashima would likely change his approach from the get go instead of trying to boost Shiraishi in a rematch, we cannot know.

Not looking down on Kintarou at all, I'm a huge fan of where his character went in these chapters. You can 180 and say you are looking down on Ohmagari and Mares.

Niou/Atobe was like, one thing. Those rarely ever happen. Konomi is rather consistent with simple stuff like "he kept the serve or didn't".

But it's one thing that show serve being kept cannot just be explain. It happen. You can't just go "Oh it's just once". Score line is simply a lot more consistent because it is ALWAYS and not USUALLY. It's simply in the rules of tennis.

If you want to argue that Tanegashima/Shiraishi happen because of they are adapting to Kintarou or just a momentum swing , Mares serve being unanswered could just be that Kintarou simply haven't face it enough it's because it's a doubles as well. Moreover, without Seda being simply a better player than Ohmagari, can it be sure that Mares wouldn't be able to even the score with Kintarou on the rest of the score. Moreover, Kintarou's move was stated in the original PoT to be more dangerous than 108th Style Had that lower style is enough to break bones and Seda might be sharing Mares burden as well.

And oh yes of course, I'm looking down on Ohmagari that got dominated 0-7 by Rainbow Aura Seda and only manage to win some points and contribute when there is Upgraded PoP Kintarou on his side and never once before. And I'm looking down on Mares that even with 7-0 Rainbow Aura Seda on his side and the player that got 7-0 on the other side that's call Ohmagari, he still manage to even game at best in the end. He's managing even score with non G5 against two G5. But of course I'm looking down on non G5 being a non G5. I'm viewing Ohmagari as a non G5 level and he doesn't received an upgrade. How exactly am I looking down on him? And I'm viewing Mares as a G5 player who can simply go even with Kintarou with G5 partner and non G5 opponent.

You're the one flat out ignoring Ohmagari level and just go "OH HE'S USEFUL" when he only manage to have that value when he got OP Kintarou power up. The pre-upgrade Kintarou already seem to be G5 level too, and he manage things that base QP cannot and manage to even fight Tanegashima and won several games than he lost once he understand doubles. But even with that Kintarou, Ohmagari still didn't do anything until Kintarou get stronger. And even with the upgraded Kintarou, Ohmagari still didn't do anything until Kintarou change his racquet. That shows that they're only managing to fight on even term because of Kintarou skill level being high enough that Ohmagari can finally be useful.

If you can show Ohmagari actually managing to do something with non upgraded Kintarou against Seda or Mares, then the points may not be due to upgraded Kintarou being better than Seda and Mares I guess. But Ohmagari is as clear as a day that's he's #6. And even Kaji who's above him got shut up completely by Oni and Irie. Seda being able to completely shut him out and also PoP Kintarou that I view as above Ohmagari at that point as well put Seda at G5 level for me.

I feel like Kintarou/Ohmagari can fight and even if Kintarou get 3 more individual upgrade against Byoudonin/Volk and assuming Byoudonin/Volk get 7-6 win on Kintarou you probably would be saying similar things you say now.

If there's Kintarou/Seda vs Mares/Seda or Kintarou/Ohmagari vs Mares/Ohmagari, I would be say Kintarou win without a doubt. But since you praise Ohmagari and Mares so much I'm guessing you think the score line would be the same or something?