Discussion "What can be more important than preventing total annihilation of the human race?"

[Knifeshade]

You know, I've always been curious about this statement ever since it was mentioned in chapter 37.

Because, really, what can be more important???

After reading 38, I'm starting to think there are humans living outside the walls as well as inside. It's early to presume if the outside community is normal or not, but we can 95% confirm that titans aren't born from thin air. They seem to be transformed from humans. Also, humans aren't born from thin air either, and it doesn't make sense the titans outside of the wall were originally humans from inside (i.e: they sneaked outside).

With that said, what can be more important than preventing the end of the human race, is it's not the end of the human race if everybody within the walls were destroyed, because they're not the last remnant of humankind.

Discuss.

 

[teioh]

That's exactly what I was saying: what can be more important than preventing the end of the human race? Preventing the end of YOUR LIFE. It's human, since the dawn of time, men who kill others men (or maybe drive titans to kill them).
The real monsters are not the titans but the humans themselves. Pretty inflated but always functional.

 

[Reclaimer]

You know, I've always been curious about this statement ever since it was mentioned in chapter 37.

Because, really, what can be more important???

That question erroneously presupposes that the information will be beneficial. If the information does not hold any tactical value but reveals some dark secret that destabilizes society, it could be said that revealing it would be counterproductive to saving humanity. Until we know what the secret is, we cannot evaluate why it would be hidden.

After reading 38, I'm starting to think there are humans living outside the walls as well as inside. It's early to presume if the outside community is normal or not, but we can 95% confirm that titans aren't born from thin air. They seem to be transformed from humans. Also, humans aren't born from thin air either, and it doesn't make sense the titans outside of the wall were originally humans from inside (i.e: they sneaked outside).

There are humans living outside the wall. The series has explicitly told us this. (Reiner and Bertholdt come from a village south east of Wall Maria. That is outside the wall.)

 

[Knifeshade]

There are humans living outside the wall. The series has explicitly told us this. (Reiner and Bertholdt come from a village south east of Wall Maria. That is outside the wall.)

I think they were meaning the south-east area of Wall Maria. Isn't "of Maria" synonymous with referring to which section of the 3 layered walls they resided in. So they were living in titan land before Wall Maria was breached? What's the point of erecting the walls to then live outside of them.

 

[AlpM]

Maybe this isn't the only "human town" in the world. Maybe when the whatever has happened with the human kind, the survivors were divided in factions, and the town of Eren decided to not mess with titans again and the other, from the Ape, decided live with/as a titan. The pastor and nobles citizens "are protecting" this city from the other faction because they think that is the right thing to do. I don't know, is just a thought.

 

[Reclaimer]

I think they were meaning the south-east area of Wall Maria. Isn't "of Maria" synonymous with referring to which section of the 3 layered walls they resided in. So they were living in titan land before Wall Maria was breached? What's the point of erecting the walls to then live outside of them.

That is possible, but note Armin's shocked reaction. "Uh?! But That's..." I don't think he responds like that if they were just in a village inside the wall.

And while it does seem weird for anyone to live outside the wall, the space inside the walls is limited and the Titans were almost never seen by anyone not a member of the scouting legion. If the Titans were not drawn to the masses of humans in the cities by the gates, I doubt they would be drawn by small villages, and if the village kept enough horses and constant sentries, it should be theoretically possible to survive outside the wall.

 

[Limit]

That is possible, but note Armin's shocked reaction. "Uh?! But That's..." I don't think he responds like that if they were just in a village inside the wall.

And while it does seem weird for anyone to live outside the wall, the space inside the walls is limited and the Titans were almost never seen by anyone not a member of the scouting legion. If the Titans were not drawn to the masses of humans in the cities by the gates, I doubt they would be drawn by small villages, and if the village kept enough horses and constant sentries, it should be theoretically possible to survive outside the wall.

He responded like that because that village was destroyed and over-run by titans since they lived in a rural area in Wall Maria.

Anyways, I agree, there are probably more humans out there in the world that we just don't know about. Maybe even more walled cities out there? From what we know the scouting legion has barely ever got far away from Wall Maria, it could be something that comes after they reclaim Wall maria.

 

[Reclaimer]

What is shocking about someone being from a village inside Wall Maria? The fact that they managed to survive?

 

[Aldrich]

What is shocking about someone being from a village inside Wall Maria? The fact that they managed to survive?

Yes. With the way the conversation unravels, it's pretty obvious Armin is surprised they survived. In response to Armin's surprise, Bertholdt says that "unlike the prosperous town alongside the river" his village didn't get informed immediately of the titan invasion. I don't even know how you could think Reyner and Bertholdt flat out told Armin and Eren they lived outside the walls anyway. You'd think something as crucial as that would have been mentioned multiple times in the story instead of being casually treated once and dropped since.

Anyway, I'm honestly at a loss at what the whole story is about, but for now the best idea I have is that the walled community is some sort of large scale experiment decided by the group of people who created the titans and still live outside the walls. Ymir might belong to that faction. From what little info we got about the start of the titan invasion and the origins of the walled community, we know that the land behind the walls was supposed to be "a sacred land where humanity could be united without strife" and that according to Pixis, the titans were created so that mankind could unite against a common foe. So that might be something like that, some sort of a test to see if a select group of humans can unite and survive against non human enemies, or if they're doomed to fail due to divisions, greed and selfishness. Basically a game by people playing gods.

I know this is far from ideal and I have a lot of problems myself with the theory but that's the best I have for the moment. You gotta give credit to Isayama for keeping things so cryptic yet interesting that late in the game.

 

[Reclaimer]

Yes. With the way the conversation unravels, it's pretty obvious Armin is surprised they survived. In response to Armin's surprise, Bertholdt says that "unlike the prosperous town alongside the river" his village didn't get informed immediately of the titan invasion.

While I get that it would be normal to be shocked to hear that anyone outside of the cities survived, it is not actually that hard to imagine. The titans are neither smart nor coordinated (absent controlling forces which had not been introduced at that point). There is quite a lot of open territory inside the walls which means if the titans spread out in search of people to kill, it is possible that a Titan could attack a village, 1-2 villagers flee and if they managed to lose the original titan never see any other titans before reaching a gate.

I don't even know how you could think Reyner and Bertholdt flat out told Armin and Eren they lived outside the walls anyway. You'd think something as crucial as that would have been mentioned multiple times in the story instead of being casually treated once and dropped since.

Assuming the standard north is up orientation on maps, being told that their village was south of wall Maria implies it was outside the wall. That could be a translation issue, I don't know, but it also could not have been. And the series has been content to not beat the reader over the head with hints of things to come. A non-clear statement that people lived outside the wall is as likely as mentioning a possible character who lived with titans in a side chapter then giving that name to a previously unnamed character 15 chapters later without a lot of fanfare.

Anyway, I'm honestly at a loss at what the whole story is about, but for now the best idea I have is that the walled community is some sort of large scale experiment decided by the group of people who created the titans and still live outside the walls. Ymir might belong to that faction. From what little info we got about the start of the titan invasion and the origins of the walled community, we know that the land behind the walls was supposed to be "a sacred land where humanity could be united without strife" and that according to Pixis, the titans were created so that mankind could unite against a common foe. So that might be something like that, some sort of a test to see if a select group of humans can unite and survive against non human enemies, or if they're doomed to fail due to divisions, greed and selfishness. Basically a game by people playing gods.

I know this is far from ideal and I have a lot of problems myself with the theory but that's the best I have for the moment. You gotta give credit to Isayama for keeping things so cryptic yet interesting that late in the game.

That would be way too much like Claymore for my tastes. I stopped reading that series that exact chapter when they had a similar reveal.

 

[Zeltrax]

I think it is something along the lines of true evolution.
My theory is that humans have been experimenting on ways to extremely evolve the human body and also humankind,
the results of the experiments? The titans.
Along with recent revelations, with three humans being able to become titans and the possibility of an entire village inside the wall
becoming titans themselves. Obviously the experiments are generally not successful, hence most the humans are not able to maintain
control of their titanic bodies.
With the exceptions being Eren, Ymir, Annie and maybe some others unknown to us who share similar conditions that
allows them to control their titanic bodies.

The giant ape could be something entirely different, a titan that does not originated from a human body.
Perhaps the reason the priest is keeping so quiet till the end is because if something like this gets out, everyone will realize that the ones who
brought their doom is humankind themselves.
Edited: About the thoughts of other places outside the wall...

Isn't it entirely possible that the people inside the wall are creating giants to send them outside the wall to annihilate other humans? For power and to see how far they can go, and to further experiment on other people outside the wall too.

A stretch and with nothing much to back up but that was what I think.

 

[teioh]

Add the fact that there are titans inside the walls... Something very very strange that actually seems means nothing logical...

 

[Reclaimer]

I know the series has a less than perfect relationship with science (see the titans. If they are so lightweight, they wouldn't be able to do any damage as their mass would be too low to do any damage without insane speed which we have not seen), but evolution would be a pretty bad explanation for the creation of the titans because it just doesn't work that way.

Of course, there really isn't a good explanation the series could use because like evolution most of the others have been overused (disease, aliens, creation gone wrong).

Also, we haven't seen anything in the series that indicates that there has ever been technology on the level needed to really start messing with genetics, and if there ever was, they would have had weapon systems capable of destroying the titans (modern level projectiles would allow you to blow a titan up from the front and kill it), so civilization would not have crumbled as fast as it did, if at all.

 

[lolnameless]

Eren's power is granted by an injection. It really looks like some "technology". Also,people had canned food...
The precision,strength and mobility of the gears are also ridiculous.
Imo, there is really no telling if the manga messes up physics(or "natural science") or technology. It makes the guess hard.

On "What can be more important than preventing total annihilation of the human race?",
I think the problem itself is also problematic.
The priest actually feels guilty on keeping secret because of the refugees,
so it seems that people inside wall aren't worthless to his eyes.
The secret he is keeping doesn't seem to cause total annihilation of people inside wall absolutely.(if so, he wouldn't care about anyone at all.)
I guess that the secret is about some endurable pain.

 

[0Xellos]

It seems there is another intelligent Titan faction which doesn't even know about the 3D gear, and the ape-Titan belongs to it (http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/35/36 and further). Maybe defending against that faction?