Theory Why I think PoF and Nakama Power is NOT legit (One Magic related)

[Vasgoko]

Here is an important discussion (in my opinion) that has been going around FT community, not just specifically this site. I would like to address this idea or topic, but before I do, I will say I don't hate PoF or Nakama Power/Speeches...unless it defies logic....

In my opinion, PoF and Nakama Power is not legit because it gives one character a significant advantage over the other, which disrupts power scaling...which is quite important in some series when it comes to strategies and tactics.

Now, given that there are many levels, this doesn't apply to all situations. I think it is a good thing to have PoF in FT cuz it teaches good from bad and right from wrong. Which can help many people IRL and is the coolest thing ever.


I've heard some people in the past that PoF and Nakama power is legit because it relates to One Magic, Layla's theory about love.

However, that doesn't fly by me because if you look at every single character, they all have an insane amount of love in their own kind of way. So why should it work for one character, but not the other.

Look at Sherry Blendy in FT. Her personality is basically revolves around the idea of love. She has more love than anyone else, basically Layla's One Magic, right?

She has even taken it to the point of crazyness and being psycho, but why doesn't she win all her battles or wars because of PoF and Nakama Power? She should be able to beat Acnologia.

My point is that although the idea of One Magic is legit, it refers more to teamwork, coordinating with your teammates, and working with others well. That's the real idea behind love.

Feelings to protect your friends and the insane amount of care you have for your guild shouldn't win the battle for you, which is why I don't include that in power scaling. Otherwise everybody should win their battles, not just one or a few character repeatedly...

 

[metsujin]

Team work or 'the power to believe in your friends', that was always Mashima's message, he himself stated that he was grateful for the people around him, who helped him during his youth, and wanted to convey those feelings in his manga.

 

[Brandish μ]

PoF is a legit power in terms of MP, where Mavis has literally turned feelings into MP to empower Fairy Sphere on Tenrou Island.

PoF can in a way cause the power scalings to skew but it should be considered a part of their overall power because they have the feat of using it. Erza is someone who you would say uses PoF more than most, but I can't equate her power as a wizard if I discard PoF because PoF exists and is accessible to all. Obviously it makes you wonder why only FT (or now saber tooth too, Sting/Rogue use it now) has figured out PoF but this is their manga (FT) so it's showing that they're doing it right before anyone else, while other guilds are not as close-knit.

As for Sherry I would say that it comes down to whether or not you think her PoF boost will get her over the line in a particular fight. She is not going to beat Acnologia because the gap is too great. Erza, who gets bashed for her plot/PoF armors is not going to beat Acnologia either. Basically PoF is not a limitless supply in my view, it just gives the user some MP - or maybe it allows for a brief but vast influx of ethernano - that otherwise they wouldn't have if they didn't have strong positive feelings.

I don't necessarily believe PoF and One Magic are the same thing, and the reason is I don't know what the One Magic is. Is it a poetic term to describe the world of magic, or is it something like the law of the FT universe? Layla's view is just that to me, a view. Hades had his perspective. Imo Hades is one of the most knowledgeable wizards when it comes to magic so his testimony has just as much or maybe more merit than Layla's; and Hades view is that One Magic comes from darkness. But he also mentioned that their is a perspective to One Magic, so some see it as light/love, others see it as darkness.

 

[Vasgoko]

PoF is a legit power in terms of MP, where Mavis has literally turned feelings into MP to empower Fairy Sphere on Tenrou Island.

PoF can in a way cause the power scalings to skew but it should be considered a part of their overall power because they have the feat of using it. Erza is someone who you would say uses PoF more than most, but I can't equate her power as a wizard if I discard PoF because PoF exists and is accessible to all. Obviously it makes you wonder why only FT (or now saber tooth too, Sting/Rogue use it now) has figured out PoF but this is their manga (FT) so it's showing that they're doing it right before anyone else, while other guilds are not as close-knit.

As for Sherry I would say that it comes down to whether or not you think her PoF boost will get her over the line in a particular fight. She is not going to beat Acnologia because the gap is too great. Erza, who gets bashed for her plot/PoF armors is not going to beat Acnologia either. Basically PoF is not a limitless supply in my view, it just gives the user some MP - or maybe it allows for a brief but vast influx of ethernano - that otherwise they wouldn't have if they didn't have strong positive feelings.

I don't necessarily believe PoF and One Magic are the same thing, and the reason is I don't know what the One Magic is. Is it a poetic term to describe the world of magic, or is it something like the law of the FT universe? Layla's view is just that to me, a view. Hades had his perspective. Imo Hades is one of the most knowledgeable wizards when it comes to magic so his testimony has just as much or maybe more merit than Layla's; and Hades view is that One Magic comes from darkness. But he also mentioned that their is a perspective to One Magic, so some see it as light/love, others see it as darkness.

Yeah, I kinda see where you are going. Except the tenrou case may just have been a one time deal.

My question is why didn't Mavis use FT's feelings and turn them into MP in the battle of Tartaros? I'm sure FT didn't lose feelings or become more evil. Especially it would make sense since FT needed them most.

My belief is that the grounds of Tenrou were sacred enough to protect the FT members, it was dumb luck that the trials were held there that year.

 

[Brandish μ]

I don't know if Mavis can use the feelings of everyone at any time to do anything. The only feat she has of this is to use Tenrou groups feelings (while they were in a circle holding hands, with Acnologia about to kill them, so feelings would be high) and using to for Fairy Sphere. So I am not sure if she could just give MP out or anything. She might be able to have used Fairy Law using their feelings to drive away Tartarus perhaps but I am not really sold on that idea.

Tenrou is holy ground so maybe that's the reason why it all worked out for them at that time like you say it might just be a one off.

 

[iDooom]

I'd say that most complaints about POF could be resolved by realizing how fights in FT work. First off, pretty much no one starts a fight by using their strongest attacks (that would be wasting a lot of MP). When a character does use their strongest techniques, it can appear like they suddenly gained "nakama power up" even when they haven't.

There really aren't many fights where character X beats character Y even though Y >> X. Power scaling is actually pretty consistent in FT when taking into account inaccurate character statements and hype.

 

[Vasgoko]

I'd say that most complaints about POF could be resolved by realizing how fights in FT work. First off, pretty much no one starts a fight by using their strongest attacks (that would be wasting a lot of MP). When a character does use their strongest techniques, it can appear like they suddenly gained "nakama power up" even when they haven't.

There really aren't many fights where character X beats character Y even though Y >> X. Power scaling is actually pretty consistent in FT when taking into account inaccurate character statements and hype.

You may be right, but I've seen otherwise about power scaling.

Here is a list of battles analyzed in my opinion (I didn't include any bias):

In my opinion, Erza has had way too many fights that involves unfair PoF and Nakama Power that you can't place her in a correct rank when it comes to power scaling. The first fight being Erza vs. Azuma. The next being Erza vs. Minerva. And the most recent being Erza vs. Kyouka.

I'd say Natsu is legit for now, but there were a few instances I doubted.

I believe Gajeel has been overrated due plainly to plot/PoF. I agree his Iron Shadow mode is formidable, but I've seen others argue that Gajeel wins against many opponents cuz he can go shadow form and avoid attacks. But then that would mean Rogue should supposedly be able to outclass anybody since nobody can hit him, but does it really happen like that? Not in the case when Natsu basically 1v2 Rogue and Sting.

Mira vs. Azuma was alright, except many people mistaken that battle as a feat that Mira lost. If you look closely then Mira basically forfeited the match to absorb the magical time bomb on Lisanna and save Lisanna.

Gray vs. Lyon in Galuna made sense. Personally I believe it could have gone either way, but Lyon's initial victory was alright. Not too bad. Gray vs. Bickslow was kinda bull. That was extreme cheating. Any PoF there would have been appreciated, but it doesn't seem that way. Gray vs. Ultear wasn't really my most favorite fight either, but it was logical towards the end.

In the Hidden Event, I didn't like Gray vs Rufus cuz that was just illogical. Too many factors in the Hidden Event really clouded the battle it was hardly fair to power scale. My initial reaction on Gray vs Silver was shocked. But after clearly examining the battle with no bias, I then clearly saw how Gray won fair and square and it was pretty damn logical.

Laxus I believe has had some instances where it was a little trippy. Although I get Laxus is a powerhouse, I only appreciated his strength when he was first introduced.

Laxus' fight in the Tartaros fight with Tempesta in the anime (The one where it was supposed to be Gray oneshotting) really raised my doubt and suspicion on Laxus' power scaling. Sure Laxus is strong and he deserved to stand up and put up a good fight, but the anime episode was a prime example of unrealistic power scaling. Laxus' disease was a big deal and was intended for the magical user to suffer greatly while in effect, but in that fight, Laxus seemed to be overpowered when suffering immense pain and taking severe damage.

But it was only one instance so it's no big deal in the overall powerscaling.

Jellal's battles were extremely odd. To be honest, most of his fights are basically contradictory and polar opposites. One moment he is rumored to be almost unbeatable and TWS tier during Tower of Heaven. Then Natsu beat him. Then Jellal was seen as ultra powerful in GMG. But in Tartaros he took severe damage on Pre-timeskip Oracion Seis, arguably the weakest link of the Baram Alliance.

I personally don't see any real powerful feat in Jellal yet, only hype.


As you can see though, each character has their own moment of PoF, but some are more logical than others and some are less frequent than others.


Footnotes:

Yes, I'm a Gray fan (obviously...but not a fanboy), but I have seen some problems with power scaling Gray.

The problem I have had with Gray's battles is that everytime he fights an opponent, it seems to be strong, but once the battle is over with, the opponent becomes extremely downgraded and pretty weak. With the exception of Silver's battle.

Gray vs. Lyon:

Lyon was pictured to be Gray's equal and a powerful rival, much like Natsu. But look at where Lyon is now. He got beat by Kagura fairly easily.

Gray vs. Bickslow:

One of Laxus' guards of the Thunder Legion, you could say Bickslow was feared among the guild and was considered as an elite in Fantasia, but now, even Gajeel could one shot Bickslow.

Gray vs. Ultear:

Ultear was leader of the 7 Kin of Purgatory and was Hades' right hand woman, just under Bluenote and Hades himself. Now, give or take, Ultear is still strong, but ask the fans who would win...Erza or Ultear? Most of the community would say Ultear doesn't hold a candle to Erza.

Gray vs. Rufus

Rufus seemed pretty strong huh? At the beginning of GMG, Rufus was like the elite of the almighty powerful team of Sabertooth, the victor of the previous GMG Tournament and the well known fame and glory of Fiore. But after Natsu basically oneshotted Sting and Rogue in a 1v2, Sabertooth didn't seem all that strong anymore. Especially since Sting and Rogue are supposed to be levels higher than Rufus and Orga..

 

[Brandish μ]

I'd say that most complaints about POF could be resolved by realizing how fights in FT work. First off, pretty much no one starts a fight by using their strongest attacks (that would be wasting a lot of MP). When a character does use their strongest techniques, it can appear like they suddenly gained "nakama power up" even when they haven't.

There really aren't many fights where character X beats character Y even though Y >> X. Power scaling is actually pretty consistent in FT when taking into account inaccurate character statements and hype.

I think it happens at times when fight choreography is misinterpreted as PoF. To me PoF is made quite apparent with a nakama speech/thoughts.

Hype/character statements are big reasons why there is a perception that scaling is off. You just have to take the circumstances of a fight for what they are. The inconsistency comes with the hype, rather than the fight or power scale.

You may be right, but I've seen otherwise about power scaling.

Here is a list of battles analyzed in my opinion (I didn't include any bias):

In my opinion, Erza has had way too many fights that involves unfair PoF and Nakama Power that you can't place her in a correct rank when it comes to power scaling. The first fight being Erza vs. Azuma. The next being Erza vs. Minerva. And the most recent being Erza vs. Kyouka.

I'd say Natsu is legit for now, but there were a few instances I doubted.

I believe Gajeel has been overrated due plainly to plot/PoF. I agree his Iron Shadow mode is formidable, but I've seen others argue that Gajeel wins against many opponents cuz he can go shadow form and avoid attacks. But then that would mean Rogue should supposedly be able to outclass anybody since nobody can hit him, but does it really happen like that? Not in the case when Natsu basically 1v2 Rogue and Sting.

Mira vs. Azuma was alright, except many people mistaken that battle as a feat that Mira lost. If you look closely then Mira basically forfeited the match to absorb the magical time bomb on Lisanna and save Lisanna.

Gray vs. Lyon in Galuna made sense. Personally I believe it could have gone either way, but Lyon's initial victory was alright. Not too bad. Gray vs. Bickslow was kinda bull. That was extreme cheating. Any PoF there would have been appreciated, but it doesn't seem that way. Gray vs. Ultear wasn't really my most favorite fight either, but it was logical towards the end.

In the Hidden Event, I didn't like Gray vs Rufus cuz that was just illogical. Too many factors in the Hidden Event really clouded the battle it was hardly fair to power scale. My initial reaction on Gray vs Silver was shocked. But after clearly examining the battle with no bias, I then clearly saw how Gray won fair and square and it was pretty damn logical.

Laxus I believe has had some instances where it was a little trippy. Although I get Laxus is a powerhouse, I only appreciated his strength when he was first introduced.

Laxus' fight in the Tartaros fight with Tempesta in the anime (The one where it was supposed to be Gray oneshotting) really raised my doubt and suspicion on Laxus' power scaling. Sure Laxus is strong and he deserved to stand up and put up a good fight, but the anime episode was a prime example of unrealistic power scaling. Laxus' disease was a big deal and was intended for the magical user to suffer greatly while in effect, but in that fight, Laxus seemed to be overpowered when suffering immense pain and taking severe damage.

But it was only one instance so it's no big deal in the overall powerscaling.

Jellal's battles were extremely odd. To be honest, most of his fights are basically contradictory and polar opposites. One moment he is rumored to be almost unbeatable and TWS tier during Tower of Heaven. Then Natsu beat him. Then Jellal was seen as ultra powerful in GMG. But in Tartaros he took severe damage on Pre-timeskip Oracion Seis, arguably the weakest link of the Baram Alliance.

I personally don't see any real powerful feat in Jellal yet, only hype.


As you can see though, each character has their own moment of PoF, but some are more logical than others and some are less frequent than others.


Footnotes:

Yes, I'm a Gray fan (obviously...but not a fanboy), but I have seen some problems with power scaling Gray.

The problem I have had with Gray's battles is that everytime he fights an opponent, it seems to be strong, but once the battle is over with, the opponent becomes extremely downgraded and pretty weak. With the exception of Silver's battle.

Gray vs. Lyon:

Lyon was pictured to be Gray's equal and a powerful rival, much like Natsu. But look at where Lyon is now. He got beat by Kagura fairly easily.

Gray vs. Bickslow:

One of Laxus' guards of the Thunder Legion, you could say Bickslow was feared among the guild and was considered as an elite in Fantasia, but now, even Gajeel could one shot Bickslow.

Gray vs. Ultear:

Ultear was leader of the 7 Kin of Purgatory and was Hades' right hand woman, just under Bluenote and Hades himself. Now, give or take, Ultear is still strong, but ask the fans who would win...Erza or Ultear? Most of the community would say Ultear doesn't hold a candle to Erza.

Gray vs. Rufus

Rufus seemed pretty strong huh? At the beginning of GMG, Rufus was like the elite of the almighty powerful team of Sabertooth, the victor of the previous GMG Tournament and the well known fame and glory of Fiore. But after Natsu basically oneshotted Sting and Rogue in a 1v2, Sabertooth didn't seem all that strong anymore. Especially since Sting and Rogue are supposed to be levels higher than Rufus and Orga..

Erza - she gets a lot of PoF moments. The Azuma one felt like a true PoF boost moment. Against Minerva I don't really put it down to PoF, it might be a little but she was angry and unleashed second origin to get more power for Nakagami. Kyouka was more BS than anything but she's Erza. Her mental toughness is quite key though to me she is the type who gets back up when all her opponents would lie down and this sometimes is called BS/PoF.

Laxus - Is that anime fight canon? Natsu does reference dragon slayer lungs (which Laxus also did in the manga in the first fight) so maybe that has something to do with it rather than Laxus being super strong. Laxus has pretty solid endurance feats from before that though which are easier to use for his power scale. If this feat was a manga one it would get wanked pretty hard by Laxus fans I imagine. PoF wise he could have used it against Jura to win but I felt it was a straight up fight, though you got Mavis implying feelings and the like so maybe it is PoF.

Jellal - his feats are pretty much top tier, he'd be below Gildarts and above Jura to me. Just ignore hypes and you can see from his fights in ToH and Tartarus that he is definitely a powerhouse.

Ultear - was Hades right hand but her magic is not exactly combat effective. Of GH she'd be behind Azuma for sure. She's not close to Bluenote and would be miles behind Hades. But in terms of magic power she could definitely be at Erza's level, just not for fighting. Emotions for Ur played a part in her loss to Gray too I believe.

Gray - Only problem I had really in his fights was steel ball vs Silver. Not exactly a problem but found it stupid.

 

[Mirage]

I agree that I don't mind the speeches if it doesn't actually affect the battle or outcome of it. You have battles like Erza vs Azuma which made 0 sense and then you have battles like Gray vs Ultear which had a legit ending to it even though there was some PoF/Nakama Speeches.

Erza vs Kyouka wasn't as bad as people thought. Erza's left eye isn't real and is artificial and also magic resistant. So when Kyouka robbed Erza of all her senses, it didn't affect her artificial eye for said reasons. Hence, Erza was actually able to see through that one eye and defeat Kyouka.

Hiro just didn't bother to explain the actual reason as to why Erza won and decided to go the ass-pull route by making Happy say some bullshit. Hiro could've made Pantherlily explain the artificial eye issue to enlighten the readers, but nah, "because she's Erza" is more legitimate.

 

[iDooom]

In my opinion, Erza has had way too many fights that involves unfair PoF and Nakama Power that you can't place her in a correct rank when it comes to power scaling.
I wouldn't say 2 fights makes Erza unable to be ranked.

The first fight being Erza vs. Azuma.
Yes, the last bit required PoF. But Tenrou Azuma was just too strong to deal with otherwise (stronger than Bluenote IMO).

The next being Erza vs. Minerva. SO =/= PoF.

And the most recent being Erza vs. Kyouka.
A little BS, but you have to remember that FT mages are the same real world humans. They do have other senses like being able to sense magic power, evil, etc. The panels showed that Erza felt pain whenever she hit Kyoka and implied that this allowed her to fight back. Before Kyoka's curse hax, Erza was beating base Kyoka and on par with EF Kyoka.

I'd say Natsu is legit for now, but there were a few instances I doubted.

I believe Gajeel has been overrated due plainly to plot/PoF. I agree his Iron Shadow mode is formidable, but I've seen others argue that Gajeel wins against many opponents cuz he can go shadow form and avoid attacks. But then that would mean Rogue should supposedly be able to outclass anybody since nobody can hit him, but does it really happen like that? Not in the case when Natsu basically 1v2 Rogue and Sting.
Most DS seem to be overrated IMO.

Mira vs. Azuma was alright, except many people mistaken that battle as a feat that Mira lost. If you look closely then Mira basically forfeited the match to absorb the magical time bomb on Lisanna and save Lisanna.
Azuma was clearly superior to Mira and didn't have to use any of his strong attacks against her.

Gray vs. Lyon in Galuna made sense. Personally I believe it could have gone either way, but Lyon's initial victory was alright. Not too bad. Gray vs. Bickslow was kinda bull. That was extreme cheating. Any PoF there would have been appreciated, but it doesn't seem that way. Gray vs. Ultear wasn't really my most favorite fight either, but it was logical towards the end.

In the Hidden Event, I didn't like Gray vs Rufus cuz that was just illogical. Too many factors in the Hidden Event really clouded the battle it was hardly fair to power scale. My initial reaction on Gray vs Silver was shocked. But after clearly examining the battle with no bias, I then clearly saw how Gray won fair and square and it was pretty damn logical.

Laxus I believe has had some instances where it was a little trippy. Although I get Laxus is a powerhouse, I only appreciated his strength when he was first introduced.

Laxus' fight in the Tartaros fight with Tempesta in the anime (The one where it was supposed to be Gray oneshotting) really raised my doubt and suspicion on Laxus' power scaling. Sure Laxus is strong and he deserved to stand up and put up a good fight, but the anime episode was a prime example of unrealistic power scaling. Laxus' disease was a big deal and was intended for the magical user to suffer greatly while in effect, but in that fight, Laxus seemed to be overpowered when suffering immense pain and taking severe damage.
Laxus destroyed Tempesta in their first fight, so the disease just put them on a more even footing.

But it was only one instance so it's no big deal in the overall powerscaling.

Jellal's battles were extremely odd. To be honest, most of his fights are basically contradictory and polar opposites. One moment he is rumored to be almost unbeatable and TWS tier during Tower of Heaven. Then Natsu beat him. Then Jellal was seen as ultra powerful in GMG. But in Tartaros he took severe damage on Pre-timeskip Oracion Seis, arguably the weakest link of the Baram Alliance.
It took DF Natsu to beat ToH Jellal. And the OS have gotten stronger over the timeskip, especially if you consider the anime only Key of the Starry Sky arc as canon.

I personally don't see any real powerful feat in Jellal yet, only hype.
He was matching Jura during the GMG.

As you can see though, each character has their own moment of PoF, but some are more logical than others and some are less frequent than others.


Footnotes:

Yes, I'm a Gray fan (obviously...but not a fanboy), but I have seen some problems with power scaling Gray.

The problem I have had with Gray's battles is that everytime he fights an opponent, it seems to be strong, but once the battle is over with, the opponent becomes extremely downgraded and pretty weak. With the exception of Silver's battle.

Gray vs. Lyon:

Lyon was pictured to be Gray's equal and a powerful rival, much like Natsu. But look at where Lyon is now. He got beat by Kagura fairly easily.
This is to be expected, due to the large power gap between Erza and Natsu/Gray. Kagura was easily the second or third strongest non-FT member in the GMG.

Gray vs. Bickslow:

One of Laxus' guards of the Thunder Legion, you could say Bickslow was feared among the guild and was considered as an elite in Fantasia, but now, even Gajeel could one shot Bickslow.

Gray vs. Ultear:

Ultear was leader of the 7 Kin of Purgatory and was Hades' right hand woman, just under Bluenote and Hades himself. Now, give or take, Ultear is still strong, but ask the fans who would win...Erza or Ultear? Most of the community would say Ultear doesn't hold a candle to Erza.
Ultear pretty much has one offensive time spell. Her magic isn't that good at combat.

Gray vs. Rufus

Rufus seemed pretty strong huh? At the beginning of GMG, Rufus was like the elite of the almighty powerful team of Sabertooth, the victor of the previous GMG Tournament and the well known fame and glory of Fiore. But after Natsu basically oneshotted Sting and Rogue in a 1v2, Sabertooth didn't seem all that strong anymore. Especially since Sting and Rogue are supposed to be levels higher than Rufus and Orga..
Sabertooth was overhyped a lot. Also, Gray had a lot of trouble against Rufus because their magic was a bad matchup.

I think it happens at times when fight choreography is misinterpreted as PoF. To me PoF is made quite apparent with a nakama speech/thoughts.

I disagree. I think PoF should only be invoked when there is no other reasonable explanation (like if base Natsu soloed Mard Geer). I could give a nakama speech IRL and it would not give me a power up.

 

[Vasgoko]

I agree that I don't mind the speeches if it doesn't actually affect the battle or outcome of it. You have battles like Erza vs Azuma which made 0 sense and then you have battles like Gray vs Ultear which had a legit ending to it even though there was some PoF/Nakama Speeches.

Erza vs Kyouka wasn't as bad as people thought. Erza's left eye isn't real and is artificial and also magic resistant. So when Kyouka robbed Erza of all her senses, it didn't affect her artificial eye for said reasons. Hence, Erza was actually able to see through that one eye and defeat Kyouka.

Hiro just didn't bother to explain the actual reason as to why Erza won and decided to go the ass-pull route by making Happy say some bullshit. Hiro could've made Pantherlily explain the artificial eye issue to enlighten the readers, but nah, "because she's Erza" is more legitimate.

Yeah but see there's my problem. Erza vs. Azuma is entirely different from Gray vs. Ultear.

Gray vs. Ultear specifically focused on their pasts with Ur and Ultear, it made sense for speeches and thoughts. There was already a backstory built in so it was logical for that fight to happen sooner or later.

Azuma was a random nomad that Erza stumbled upon and Erza had 3 close encounters of dying. But then she dreamt of Jellal's face and Natsu's face and used that as an opportunity to speak for the guild which gave her an excuse to win.

For me, the Erza vs Kyouka moment was not cuz of the eye. It was simply unreal that Erza could endure the amount of sensitivity that was placed on her on top of her long hours in the torture chamber. Erza basically defied the purpose of Kyouka's magic rendering it useless.

Look at this:

- Erza had an armor that defied Midnights warping/bending magic (Ok, I get that)

- Erza had an armor that countered space..the sole purpose of Minerva's magic (Fine, Erza has a rare armor, that's ok)

- Erza was unsensitive to pain rendering Kyouka's magic useless (Like, really?)

What's next? Anti-Dragon Acnologia Armor? Might as well call it gg.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2015 ---

I disagree. I think PoF should only be invoked when there is no other reasonable explanation (like if base Natsu soloed Mard Geer). I could give a nakama speech IRL and it would not give me a power up.

I disagree. I think PoF is only legit when there is a logical reason or backstory.

Examples:

- Horrific trauma of the past (could be similar to Ur and Ultear...maybe if you push it to something similar to Silver and Gray.)

- Cost in battle:

This would be like an injured ally or a dead ally or something of that sort. Like Mira and Lisanna vs Azuma. I saw it perfectly fit that Mira would have gone totally ballistic and oneshotted a hole through Azuma after Lisanna was caught in the magical time bomb and had flashbacks of Lisanna's presumed death in the past. That makes 100% more sense than Erza oneshotting Azuma.

- Disappointment / Failure / Death of a Mentor:

This one is a perfect one. Your mentor sacrificed for you before he/she died. Years later, the character confronts the killer and uses the mentor's teachings even maybe thinking about the time the mentor and student spent together. Then the enemy gets smashed.

Or disappointment / failure of a mentor. Like your mentor taught you their teachings, but after confronting an enemy the student makes a mistake and is forced to escape or forfeit the battle barely with their life. Or maybe something unexpected happens. Then to redeem themselves, the character has the will to fight once again and defeat their enemy and finish their masters' legacy or request.

Things like this make a great story for PoF and Nakama Power / Speeches / Thoughts.

 

[Mirage]

Yeah but see there's my problem. Erza vs. Azuma is entirely different from Gray vs. Ultear.

Gray vs. Ultear specifically focused on their pasts with Ur and Ultear, it made sense for speeches and thoughts. There was already a backstory built in so it was logical for that fight to happen sooner or later.

Azuma was a random nomad that Erza stumbled upon and Erza had 3 close encounters of dying. But then she dreamt of Jellal's face and Natsu's face and used that as an opportunity to speak for the guild which gave her an excuse to win.

For me, the Erza vs Kyouka moment was not cuz of the eye. It was simply unreal that Erza could endure the amount of sensitivity that was placed on her on top of her long hours in the torture chamber. Erza basically defied the purpose of Kyouka's magic rendering it useless.

Look at this:

- Erza had an armor that defied Midnights warping/bending magic (Ok, I get that)

- Erza had an armor that countered space..the sole purpose of Minerva's magic (Fine, Erza has a rare armor, that's ok)

- Erza was unsensitive to pain rendering Kyouka's magic useless (Like, really?)

What's next? Anti-Dragon Acnologia Armor? Might as well call it gg.

Yeah I guess Erza vs Kyouka was still bullshit because of how much pain she took. She took like what, x4 pain sensibility and endured it? Eh, kind of unrealistic even for a manga with spells and dragons flying around.

The rest I never denied and agreed with the whole time. Erza vs Azuma was just ridiculous while Gray vs Ultear was a quality fight. I don't really have problems with Gray's fights at all tbh.

What's next? Anti-Dragon Acnologia Armor? Might as well call it gg.

She has them convenient armors man. I know where you're coming from though. And don't jynx it btw.

 

[Coné]

Nakama Power is not legit even if it's connected to the One Magic, because it is still PiS, CiS and only Fairy Tail has it, so it has nothing to do with kind hearts or whatever.

@Chaos Erza endured Kyouka's pain because Kyouka had stolen her ability to feel

 

[Mirage]

@Chaos Erza endured Kyouka's pain because Kyouka had stolen her ability to feel

Stop trying to mindfuck me

 

[Brandish μ]

I disagree. I think PoF should only be invoked when there is no other reasonable explanation (like if base Natsu soloed Mard Geer). I could give a nakama speech IRL and it would not give me a power up.

Why? What is the reason that PoF should only be invoked in those circumstances? Base Natsu never soloed Mard Geer and was never even close in battle. If that happened PoF would be the least of the problems first problem would be bad writing from Mashima. PoF can be used whenever there's no real rule for it as far as I can tell just that FT is the guild who has the closest nakama's so they have better use of PoF.

You don't exist in the world of FT so you'll never know how a nakama speech can affect your magic. IRL however speeches can be inspiration and this can cause you to dig that extra bit deeper (I'd guess it's tied to adrenaline of something similar) that would allow you to get that little bit more energy to do stuff you'd logically not do if your mindset was not so inspired.

 

[iDooom]

Why? What is the reason that PoF should only be invoked in those circumstances? Base Natsu never soloed Mard Geer and was never even close in battle. If that happened PoF would be the least of the problems first problem would be bad writing from Mashima. PoF can be used whenever there's no real rule for it as far as I can tell just that FT is the guild who has the closest nakama's so they have better use of PoF.

You don't exist in the world of FT so you'll never know how a nakama speech can affect your magic. IRL however speeches can be inspiration and this can cause you to dig that extra bit deeper (I'd guess it's tied to adrenaline of something similar) that would allow you to get that little bit more energy to do stuff you'd logically not do if your mindset was not so inspired.

So if a character gives a nakama speech but doesn't get any stronger that is also defined as PoF? Basically then nakama speech = PoF. So there really isn't anything bad about PoF = extra determination.

 

[Brandish μ]

The nakama speech is a part of the drama that Mashima is going to give us, to let us know that PoF is going to be used and/or that the character is using their feelings as inspiration. The speech isn't PoF, the power you get from feelings is PoF, the speech is just another by-product usually I think it's more for drama.

 

[Coné]

Even if Nakama shitz can be inspiring, it's still PiS just because of the terrible explanation it's always had.

 

[Saint]

Even if Nakama shitz can be inspiring, it's still PiS just because of the terrible explanation it's always had.

Still better than Talk no jutsu

 

[Firepower]

PoF is the theme of ft. The same way "Bonds" is with naruto.

Bikslow was never all that. He had a bit of an advantage in that fight with Gray I think because of location or something. Gray got mad at himself for letting his guard down or got a bit sloppy. Bikslow got lucky.

Why do you praise Minerva so much? Who has she fought to prove her strength? She gets owned by Erza with a broken leg, gets owned by Kyoka, turned into a demon, gets stronger, and still gets owned by Erza, with Erza continuing her fight with Kyoka. If teleporting is that good then Mest is just as strong, plus hell erase his enemies memories.

Since childhood both Gray and Natsu feared Erza because of her superior strength. Erza's magic seems to only be changing clothes and controlling swords. She wins with brute strength, extreme durability, sword skills and character. Titania is the definition of what Fairy Tail is all about. All of ft are connected together because of their feelings. That's where ft gets their strength. It's became Sabertooth's rule also after seeing the power of feelings. Erza got sword skills, but no one matches her for toughness to take punishment, or strong will to keep fighting. Did you expect her to give up easily in fights?

Why else do you think Natsu, Gray and ft get mad when the enemy takes out one of their own? Not just a ft member.

Lyon was getting beaten by Kagura because he is at the level of Gray. Kagura is at the level of Erza. Erza has always been more powerful than Gray and Natsu. She has faith that Natsu will become stronger than her, but what evidence do you have to say Natsu or Gray have already surpassed Erza? Erza doesn't need fire, she only changes armor and weapon. Everything has come from her physical abilities and skill.

So PoF is cheating, but Laxus getting dragon slaying magic to boost his strength is not? Sting and Rogue are real dragon slayers, but they also got that same thing as Laxus. Gray didn't become strong completely on his own. His dad gave him added power. All of them have been in tight spots and it's because of their stubbornness to not give up and to protect one another that they overcome their enemies.

I agree that Kagura is somewhat better than Erza in some ways, but can't match Erza's durability or will to win. She's a solid rock inside and out like wolverine.