Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Sanji's feats have always been a bit low-key when it comes to time-skip stuff. I remember talking about it prior to Wano. Oda always gave him bit and pieces to imply that he was still keeping up, while not giving him any major fight. It was odd. Like, as cool as the Katakuri moment is, what was Oda going for? It was hype for Sanji, but he never followed up on it.

Nah, it couldn't have. Sanji's Birthright only came into play after he put the Raid Suit on. I think that moment was to just demonstrate how far the Monster Trio had developed physically.

Yeah Sanji is such an enigma.

Reading egghead weekly makes Sanji look so ridiculous but when you go back and read it through in one go you actually see he is legit in the standing for MVP of the Arc. He's doing everything, even ordering the Giants to go grab Luffy and take I'm to their ship. He really does know how to take command of a situation despite him constantly acting like he is in distress and on top of that he had probably one of the coolest lines of any crew member besides Luffy

 

[Rein Avara]

Yeah Sanji is such an enigma.

Reading egghead weekly makes Sanji look so ridiculous but when you go back and read it through in one go you actually see he is legit in the standing for MVP of the Arc. He's doing everything, even ordering the Giants to go grab Luffy and take I'm to their ship. He really does know how to take command of a situation despite him constantly acting like he is in distress and on top of that he had probably one of the coolest lines of any crew member besides Luffy

So what we're saying is that Sanji is more suited for Admin/Comms work

 

[Pirate Queen]

So what we're saying is that Sanji is more suited for Admin/Comms work

Yes

 

[kkck]

*internally screams in remembering cake that took 700 chapters to bake*

 

[Pirate Queen]

*internally screams in remembering cake that took 700 chapters to bake*

Easy, that man is a hero for not poisoning a cake to stop a mass murderer

Sanji definitely not the type of dude to go back in time and take out baby hitler

 

[kkck]

Easy, that man is a hero for not poisoning a cake to stop a mass murderer

Sanji definitely not the type of dude to go back in time and take out baby hitler

Sanji should have at least thrown some raw egg shells in there and hope big mom gets salmonella...

 

[DeadlyBeast]

How does one increase their durability if they've supposedly never been hit or lost a fight, Katakuri knew how to block, counter and intercept attacks but the few times Luffy did land hits on him he was rather shaken up.

I personally took Katakuri being shaken up more psychological than physical. Since he wasn't used to getting hit, especially by those weaker than him it's definitely a shock. However, I don't think people of his caliber can get to that position and maintain it without fighting other strong people who can land attacks on them so don't think his actual durability should be that impacted.

By similar comparison, it's doubtful any of the logia Marine Admirals are getting hit either since they exhibit similar CoO based dodging in Marineford. And fights with opponents of the caliber that can do something are similarly few & far between. But I don't expect them to have lower durability as a result e.g. Akainu likely hasn't seen any action since Aokiji fight (not counting Kuma) yet he probably will be at his peak.

On different spectrum you have Mihawk who said he'd wait for Zoro at peak condition even though all he ever does is drink wine & read papers. I give strong people benefit of the doubt to stay at the level they got to even without having to continue fighting a lot.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2024 ---

And I know this is probably kicking a hornets nest but Katakuri's utilization of ACoA, ACoO, CoC, Awakening, and his DF versatility is why I place Katakuri comfortably over King in the YC1 discussions

That is a controversial take indeed. I personally think Katakuri and King are equal with whoever the winner is in a fight having an extreme diff. I think Katakuri is far more versatile but where King excels, he shines brighter.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I personally took Katakuri being shaken up more psychological than physical. Since he wasn't used to getting hit, especially by those weaker than him it's definitely a shock. However, I don't think people of his caliber can get to that position and maintain it without fighting other strong people who can land attacks on them so don't think his actual durability should be that impacted.

By similar comparison, it's doubtful any of the logia Marine Admirals are getting hit either since they exhibit similar CoO based dodging in Marineford. And fights with opponents of the caliber that can do something are similarly few & far between. But I don't expect them to have lower durability as a result e.g. Akainu likely hasn't seen any action since Aokiji fight (not counting Kuma) yet he probably will be at his peak.

On different spectrum you have Mihawk who said he'd wait for Zoro at peak condition even though all he ever does is drink wine & read papers. I give strong people benefit of the doubt to stay at the level they got to even without having to continue fighting a lot.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2024 ---

That is a controversial take indeed. I personally think Katakuri and King are equal with whoever the winner is in a fight having an extreme diff. I think Katakuri is far more versatile but where King excels, he shines brighter.

I wouldn't say it's a controversial take. As I recall most people seemed to be of the same opinion. Not by a large margin but it was a good back and forth

 

[kkck]

I don't see katakuri as someone who lacks durability tbh. He took many hits from luffy in both variations of gear 4. Katakuri is in a position where the number of people who individually are capable of contending with him are pretty damn limited. Threats to him from enemy crews would be basically limited to top 3 yonko executives give or take. And of course it takes yonko and admirals to clown him.... Gear 4 luffy had a pretty comfortable edge over doflamingo and meanwhile G4 luffy couldn't do a thing to katakuri until luffy got decent with future sight. It's also worth noting that katakuri handled eating G4 attacks significantly better than doflamingo did. To most people katakuri's foresight will be overpowering but it's clear that people in katakuri's tier won't simply be unable to hit him.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

The argument most certainly could be made.

Feels intentional, imo.

Definitely agree here. Aside from the clear parallels in the panels, he outright said there are levels to CoA. Hope we get confirmation on that later and we see Katakuri grow without having to be under Big Mom's shadow. Honestly, if Katakuri gets aCoC he'd be a great future Yonko.

Truth be told, I do think Oda had Luffy skip a couple levels to make sure he was in decent enough spot for Wano. Katakuri was one of the first times I thought "this feels a bit unearned" and was all in on the Katakuri let Luffy win train.

To this day, it is the least deserved win by Luffy. Katakuri was just that skilled. What could save it is if we get flashback where Katakuri mentally just lets Luffy have the win purely since he thinks he'd make it big and wanted to cheer him on.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't see katakuri as someone who lacks durability tbh. He took many hits from luffy in both variations of gear 4. Katakuri is in a position where the number of people who individually are capable of contending with him are pretty damn limited. Threats to him from enemy crews would be basically limited to top 3 yonko executives give or take. And of course it takes yonko and admirals to clown him.... Gear 4 luffy had a pretty comfortable edge over doflamingo and meanwhile G4 luffy couldn't do a thing to katakuri until luffy got decent with future sight. It's also worth noting that katakuri handled eating G4 attacks significantly better than doflamingo did.

Mallegan vs Katakuri would be such a good fight. Idk why your post made me think of that match up

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I wouldn't say it's a controversial take. As I recall most people seemed to be of the same opinion. Not by a large margin but it was a good back and forth

That's fair, I don't think a gap between them would ever be big. I just know there are people that are Lunarian d*!k riders and think they can't be damaged at all. Personally think even powerful enough offense can damage them when in their defense form.

 

[kkck]

Mallegan vs Katakuri would be such a good fight. Idk why your post made me think of that match up

If we go by magellan's performance you'd think katakuri would one shot him. I suppose he wouldn't be impervious to poison but magellan should be someone katakuri could clown with foresight alone. Foresight combined with katakuri's ability to generate endless mochi and also an awakening to control the environment should more than do the trick. Magellan as we last saw him struggled with luffy's G2 speed... katakuri is definitely leagues ahead of that.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I don't see katakuri as someone who lacks durability tbh. He took many hits from luffy in both variations of gear 4. Katakuri is in a position where the number of people who individually are capable of contending with him are pretty damn limited. Threats to him from enemy crews would be basically limited to top 3 yonko executives give or take. And of course it takes yonko and admirals to clown him.... Gear 4 luffy had a pretty comfortable edge over doflamingo and meanwhile G4 luffy couldn't do a thing to katakuri until luffy got decent with future sight. It's also worth noting that katakuri handled eating G4 attacks significantly better than doflamingo did. To most people katakuri's foresight will be overpowering but it's clear that people in katakuri's tier won't simply be unable to hit him.

I think Katakuri is going to flourish with Big Mom's demise (even if alive she's not around anymore). He already has aCoO mastered, and can likely grow to master aCoA even more. His CoC was no different to Luffy in WCI so wouldn't be surprised if he gains aCoC now that multiple people have it. If the Yonko system survives wouldn't be surprised if he becomes one of the next gen Yonko.

Mallegan vs Katakuri would be such a good fight. Idk why your post made me think of that match up

Haha that is pretty random but would be a solid fight. Magellan is so overpowered since everyone seems susceptible to poison.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2024 ---

If we go by magellan's performance you'd think katakuri would one shot him. I suppose he wouldn't be impervious to poison but magellan should be someone katakuri could clown with foresight alone. Foresight combined with katakuri's ability to generate endless mochi and also an awakening to control the environment should more than do the trick. Magellan as we last saw him struggled with luffy's G2 speed... katakuri is definitely leagues ahead of that.

But he can counter speed by AoE poison attacks so unless Katakuri has some way of neutralizing the poison I think he'd still struggle.

 

[kkck]

That's fair, I don't think a gap between them would ever be big. I just know there are people that are Lunarian d*!k riders and think they can't be damaged at all. Personally think even powerful enough offense can damage them when in their defense form.

Welp, zoro made the case that he could possibly injure king through his defense mode. But this was at a point where zoro "mastered" emma and was throwing honest to god yonko level attacks at him. I don't think anyone believes katakuri at WCI had that sort of firepower and I would argue the suggestion is ridiculous. Yonko level stuff could straight up one shot luffy during early wano. Katakuri is a pretty versatile fighter, people definitely misunderstand the role of foresight in his combat, but king doesn't fall behind. Lunarian physiology I would argue is the strongest of any individual race we have seen so far and that is combined with the BS that comes with a zoan dinosaur fruit.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2024 ---

I think Katakuri is going to flourish with Big Mom's demise (even if alive she's not around anymore). He already has aCoO mastered, and can likely grow to master aCoA even more. His CoC was no different to Luffy in WCI so wouldn't be surprised if he gains aCoC now that multiple people have it. If the Yonko system survives wouldn't be surprised if he becomes one of the next gen Yonko.


Haha that is pretty random but would be a solid fight. Magellan is so overpowered since everyone seems susceptible to poison.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 4, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 4, 2024 ---

But he can counter speed by AoE poison attacks so unless Katakuri has some way of neutralizing the poison I think he'd still struggle.

Its conceivable katakuri grows stronger in the absence of big mom. If he gets cladding it should be a pretty big boost.

I mean, the difference in speed here is already more than overwhelming. Part 1 magellan struggled with G2 luffy at the time. Katakuri could handle G4 luffy attacks with ease. That's not close at all. And magellan does not have an AOE advantage over katakuri. If anything katakuri has an AOE advantage over magellan. I doubt magellan can even dodge katakuri's mochi bullet.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Welp, zoro made the case that he could possibly injure king through his defense mode. But this was at a point where zoro "mastered" emma and was throwing honest to god yonko level attacks at him. I don't think anyone believes katakuri at WCI had that sort of firepower and I would argue the suggestion is ridiculous. Yonko level stuff could straight up one shot luffy during early wano. Katakuri is a pretty versatile fighter, people definitely misunderstand the role of foresight in his combat, but king doesn't fall behind. Lunarian physiology I would argue is the strongest of any individual race we have seen so far and that is combined with the BS that comes with a zoan dinosaur fruit.

The problem is that Katakuri is so versatile he defeat him in ways other than penetrating Lunarian defense, hell all he needs to do is smother him in his DF Awakening. And if Zoro can coax him out of defense mode, Katakuri sure as hell can do the same

The only think King has going for him his Offensive power. Even his fight Katakuri hard counters with peerless donuts

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Welp, zoro made the case that he could possibly injure king through his defense mode. But this was at a point where zoro "mastered" emma and was throwing honest to god yonko level attacks at him. I don't think anyone believes katakuri at WCI had that sort of firepower and I would argue the suggestion is ridiculous. Yonko level stuff could straight up one shot luffy during early wano. Katakuri is a pretty versatile fighter, people definitely misunderstand the role of foresight in his combat, but king doesn't fall behind. Lunarian physiology I would argue is the strongest of any individual race we have seen so far and that is combined with the BS that comes with a zoan dinosaur fruit.

Do agree that you'd need very high attack power to actually damage King while in defense mode and I don't think Katakuri has shown anything that packs that level of power yet. Maybe if he gains aCoC he can do it by using his power mochi attack.

I think where Katakuri can fight King is by using his aCoO to take advantage of King switching to attack mode. Since he excelled at counter attacks I think he'd do well against King in that regard.

Its conceivable katakuri grows stronger in the absence of big mom. If he gets cladding it should be a pretty big boost.

I mean, the difference in speed here is already more than overwhelming. Part 1 magellan struggled with G2 luffy at the time. Katakuri could handle G4 luffy attacks with ease. That's not close at all. And magellan does not have an AOE advantage over katakuri. If anything katakuri has an AOE advantage over magellan. I doubt magellan can even dodge katakuri's mochi bullet.

Didn't Magellan have the ability to create poison gas? If he releases a bunch of that in a large area Katakuri could get hurt more easily. He did get knocked out by Caesars sleep gas in the cover story.

Do agree on the other points where Magellan struggled against the G2 speed. For that I'd expect Magellan if he returns in the story to get some retcon, since tbh G2 Luffy performed too well in Marineford by today's power level standards. He should have been fodder back then.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do agree that you'd need very high attack power to actually damage King while in defense mode and I don't think Katakuri has shown anything that packs that level of power yet. Maybe if he gains aCoC he can do it by using his power mochi attack.

Katakuri has shown and displayed a powerful offensive above even G4 at times. Do you really think "Flames off" King can tank continuous G4 level punched or am I misunderstanding you

 

[kkck]

The problem is that Katakuri is so versatile he defeat him in ways other than penetrating Lunarian defense, hell all he needs to do is smother him in his DF Awakening. And if Zoro can coax him out of defense mode, Katakuri sure as hell can do the same

The only think King has going for him his Offensive power. Even his fight Katakuri hard counters with peerless donuts

But... how? King doesn't only have a defense mode, he has an attack mode. With the attack mode comes a major boost to speed, his overall offensive capability AND fire that's more like magma. One of king's abilities is to literally explode.

"The only thing king has going for him his offensive power". What does that mean? King has a defense mode.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Bruh why do mods even have banned topic number 8?

Who out here is saying Katakuri over Kaido or Luffy ????

But we do have a member that says King > Big Mom

I'd believe Smoker Top 30 before I believe King>Big Mom