On Break One Piece Chapter 1113 Discussion

[Hannibal Psyche]

Isn't that underestimating how crazy or even suicidal some people can be?

The Celestial Dragons do have body guards, the Gorosei have their food tested for poison, that means they being targeted is not that care

Pretty sure it is the opposite.
Usually, if you get security in place, it surely means you care or worry about being victim to criminals.

That aside, my point is the SHs do things that almost can't be anticipated even by criminal standards.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

How would dropping a mega-continent into the ocean lower water levels? An insane amount of water would be displaced, sea levels should rise if the Red Line is destroyed. Then again, the space laser making a forever-hole in the ocean which mysteriously raises sea levels doesn't make much sense yet either, so idk

Actually it makes sense for Lulusia kingdom’s destruction to rise sea level. The hole is irrelevant for the calculation since it is filled with water. There was an above sea level part (A) and below sea level part (B) of Lulusia kingdom prior to its destruction by Mother Flame. After destruction, all of Lulusia kingdom (A+B) became underwater so it makes sense for waters to rise with A getting now underwater. The below water part (B) is neutral on sea level while the above water part (A) increases sea level. B location simply changed underwater because there is a hole filled of water. It would only makes sense for water to decrease in case of volume of destroyed A+B is < B prior to destruction (due to change in density). Hope I am clear enough.

 

[HereNThere]

We should remember, the water didn't rise immediately after Lulusia was destroyed. It took an entire week, then an earthquake that was felt around the world struck. Then the water rose.

I don't think it's the simple physics of a landmass falling into the ocean. Oda emphasized the quake being the cause of subsequent rise. There is something greater afoot, deep underneath the sea and the earth below it.

 

[RaisinRisin]

Ok, I read official and I'm still torned because I don't know if Vegapunk mean that the world will sink for real or metaphorically. Also now that I read it I think Gorosei may choose "lesser evil" and let Strawhats and remaining Vegapunks go to make sure that nothing that they need won't be destroyed during fight. They can't find real streaming den den mushi and they can't destroy whole lab or even island to destroy it so I think Gorosei will be forced to swallow this defeate and try to secure power plant and Punk Records to make sure they can still obtain Motherflame. And there is chance that real Vegapunk knew all this time that York is working on creating Motherflame for WG so by saying that "he commited 2 sins" he meant to take responsibility for it. Also I wonder where he could really hide this new den den mushi. If York won't be able to crack this up even though she's also Vegapunk then that must be place about which even he himself wouldn't think about.

Hard to be sure, but I think it's probably only times VP directly defied the Elders that he's referring to. If so, the "two sins" are:

1. giving Bonney ultimate Pacifista control + not putting a literal self-destruct on Kuma (it's a combo), and
2. researching the forbidden history of the Void Century.

(If it were up to me, I'd want him to at least apologize for human weapon experimentation and fuelling/arming the weapon that fired on Lulusia, but I suspect the slight acknowledgment he just gave that his ethics might not be the best are all we'll get.)

My only question is what's the evidence for it specifically being a waning moon? I don't doubt you, just want to know if you're saying that from a point of presumption or evidence :O

Just basic awareness of moon phases (cross-referenced with the orientation of the crescent moon in the manga).

I just went to find cropped pictures to use here and I found a whole page where they not only talk about the same thing I noticed, but they even have more that I didn't: Kouzuki Oden and even his era of the scabbards wore a waxing crescent moon! Now I'm more certain than ever the moon theme in Wano is focused on Toki's prediction (*edit: and moon cycles, since Momonosuke's garb is back to waxing again).

From that page:

waxing crescent moon

waning crescent

Actually it makes sense for Lulusia kingdom’s destruction to rise sea level. The hole is irrelevant for the calculation since it is filled with water. There was an above sea level part (A) and below sea level part (B) of Lulusia kingdom prior to its destruction by Mother Flame. After destruction, all of Lulusia kingdom (A+B) became underwater so it makes sense for waters to rise with A getting now underwater. The below water part (B) is neutral on sea level while the above water part (A) increases sea level. B location simply changed underwater because there is a hole filled of water. It would only makes sense for water to decrease in case of volume of destroyed A+B is < B prior to destruction (due to change in density). Hope I am clear enough.

Doesn't the sheer volume of the massive cylinders of air inside these endless waterfalls displace the most water, though? It's way too suspicious those holes don't close up. Stuff like this, Enies Lobby, and Reverse Mountain have made me wonder what's really below the mantle/magma level on their planet, as @HereNThere said.

 

[Fox666]

Actually it makes sense for Lulusia kingdom’s destruction to rise sea level. The hole is irrelevant for the calculation since it is filled with water. There was an above sea level part (A) and below sea level part (B) of Lulusia kingdom prior to its destruction by Mother Flame. After destruction, all of Lulusia kingdom (A+B) became underwater so it makes sense for waters to rise with A getting now underwater. The below water part (B) is neutral on sea level while the above water part (A) increases sea level. B location simply changed underwater because there is a hole filled of water. It would only makes sense for water to decrease in case of volume of destroyed A+B is < B prior to destruction (due to change in density). Hope I am clear enough.

I'm very dyslexic today...

Doesn't the sheer volume of the massive cylinders of air inside these endless waterfalls displace the most water, though?

Yes.

I did the math, the amount of water displaced to raise the sea level by 1 meter around the world would require the hole to go thousands of km deep...

 

[CharlosTenryuubito]

I'm very dyslexic today...


Yes.

I did the math, the amount of water displaced to raise the sea level by 1 meter around the world would require the hole to go thousands of km deep...

wait a sec, if there is a hole where the water goes how does it raise the sea level? Do we lost all the water down to the hole?

 

[RaisinRisin]

wait a sec, if there is a hole where the water goes how does it raise the sea level? Do we lost all the water down to the hole?

Normally, if you put an object (including a big volume of air) in water, it gets displaced, not destroyed. If you assume it was destroyed in this case, sea level should lower and the hole should close. If you assume it's displaced all the way from the sea bottom, then it's questionable for a 1 metre rise in in sea level to be enough, but apparently the math works out.

*edit* Just realized if the volume of air is the same as the volume of water destroyed, then I guess that would allow for what was said with the seaquake and tsunamis being related to a sea level rise, I suppose. It still feels like something doesn't add up though.

*edit again because I'm apparently braindead now* @Fox666 said the math does work out, so I'm mostly just questioning why the hole stays open from the bottom all the way up to the top, regardless.

 

[zetsu banned]

Actually it makes sense for Lulusia kingdom’s destruction to rise sea level. The hole is irrelevant for the calculation since it is filled with water. There was an above sea level part (A) and below sea level part (B) of Lulusia kingdom prior to its destruction by Mother Flame. After destruction, all of Lulusia kingdom (A+B) became underwater so it makes sense for waters to rise with A getting now underwater. The below water part (B) is neutral on sea level while the above water part (A) increases sea level. B location simply changed underwater because there is a hole filled of water. It would only makes sense for water to decrease in case of volume of destroyed A+B is < B prior to destruction (due to change in density). Hope I am clear enough.

That's making a strong assumption about the nature of these holes. They can't be "filled with water" because they're seemingly endless. They would fill up from the endless waterfall eventually (lowering sea levels), but for whatever reason they don't. As it stands, "magic" is basically the only logical conclusion for how this thing works until we find out what's really at the bottom of the holes in Enies Lobby/Lulusia.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

We should remember, the water didn't rise immediately after Lulusia was destroyed. It took an entire week, then an earthquake that was felt around the world struck. Then the water rose.

I don't think it's the simple physics of a landmass falling into the ocean. Oda emphasized the quake being the cause of subsequent rise. There is something greater afoot, deep underneath the sea and the earth below it.

I also think the earthquake and the water rising are directly connected to each other but that Lulusia kingdom may only have tangential connection e.g. the incident triggered/accelerated some separate geologic process.

My idea was that the Red Line is consuming land mass from underneath in order to grow, causing all islands to sink. This could be either from the existing Red Line rising up even higher or even better, a new Red Line forming that will even further divide the world and displace even more water.

It's also unclear if whatever is happening is a natural process influenced by events of the story (Lulusia) or is entirely artificial/man-made, where some technology is being used to geoengineer/terraform the planet. Maybe this is what Imu meant by another cleansing where they as god decided to flood the world (there are multiple real life myths/religions around this kind of thing).

 

[zetsu banned]

We should remember, the water didn't rise immediately after Lulusia was destroyed. It took an entire week, then an earthquake that was felt around the world struck. Then the water rose.

I don't think it's the simple physics of a landmass falling into the ocean. Oda emphasized the quake being the cause of subsequent rise. There is something greater afoot, deep underneath the sea and the earth below it.

Lovecraftian twist incoming: There's something alive down there, slithering around the core of the world. Kaidou and Big Mom tickled it, the motherflame weapon pissed it off.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I also think the earthquake and the water rising are directly connected to each other but that Lulusia kingdom may only have tangential connection e.g. the incident triggered/accelerated some separate geologic process.

My idea was that the Red Line is consuming land mass from underneath in order to grow, causing all islands to sink. This could be either from the existing Red Line rising up even higher or even better, a new Red Line forming that will even further divide the world and displace even more water.

It's also unclear if whatever is happening is a natural process influenced by events of the story (Lulusia) or is entirely artificial/man-made, where some technology is being used to geoengineer/terraform the planet. Maybe this is what Imu meant by another cleansing where they as god decided to flood the world (there are multiple real life myths/religions around this kind of thing).

From what I recall, this is absolutely correct.
The destruction of Lulusia triggered earthquakes which raised the sea-levels.
At first, I thought the sea-levels rise by 1m each time an Island is destroyed, however, I'm beginning to think the sea-levels rising isn't the problem.

My reasoning initially was each Island destroyed means sea-levels will be up by 1m, so 10 Islands would be 10m rise in sea-levels.
However, I think the real issue is the earthquakes.
Perhaps, the greater the change in tectonic plates, the greater the chances of earthquakes and possible the greater the magnitude of earthquakes.

Thinking about it, we know tectonic plates move towards each other, and apart or slide by each other... but when you change the shape of plates so drastically, that would surely makes things a lot more chaotic.

Furthermore, I think this chapter said the world will sink... not that sea will envelop the world. Makes sense if earthquakes cause the destruction of many Islands and result in these Islands sinking.

Another thing I found interesting was when Imu ordered the destruction of Lulusia, he said the country being destroyed must be above Sea-levels... that is very specific. Not sure why that is the case, but hopefully we get some elaboration.

 

[electricmastro]

Gonna feel pretty weird that we're gonna have to leave Egghead with the sinking world plot line unresolved. I imagine that could be touched on too while we're at Elbaf?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Another thing, I used to think the Motherflame was the weapon, but I have to agree it makes more sense as being the fuel-source.
Like Dragon and co. said, it makes no sense for VP to make a weapon that has that much destructive capacity... no way York could make something so devious without the other VPs knowing.
Makes sense if it's a fuel-source, a fuel is harmless, it just depends on what you use the fuel to power that can be evil which would make sense.

I used to think the WG never had an Ancient Weapon because I assumed Ancient Weapons were things only the Ancient Kingdom possessed and hid. Although when Dragon and co. spoke about the WG having it and more so, with Robin's knowledge, they were surprised the WG would have such a weapon and not use it. I guess we can conclude the reason why the WG don't use what is likely Uranus... is because they lack the fuel to use it.
Ancient Kingdom were potentially destroyed by Uranus if I had to guess.

Speaking of fuel sources, VP said the Ancient Giant couldn't be activated because they lacked the fuel to power it.
Luffy was somehow able to activate it... is it just briefly or can he power it up for good?
if Uranus requires a fuel source that only someone with 500 years+ knowledge of tech can provide... I wonder if the Nika DF is not only the wackiest DF in the world limited just by imagination... I wonder if Nika Nika no Mi is actually also a fuel source.

It would be absolutely crazy if Nika Nika no Mi also ends up not just being a DF, but actually the source of energy that Vegapunk was talking about. Hard to not entertain it when the Ancient Giant requires Ancient Fuel, and somehow Luffy powered it up. Is it just 1 off thing? Or is there more to this?

Perhaps, one of the reasons that the Gorosei want Nika might also be because it's a source of Ancient Energy that can power anything? Essentially, Nika is the power to do almost anything and even control Ancient Weapons like Uranus. Would be nice if Franky was able to learn more about the Ancient Kingdom's technology and be the one to manufacture this renewable source of energy, but that may well be the case, and Luffy powering up the giant robot is not him really powering it up, but the robot just awakening to deliver a message and then die.

Wasn't really a fan of this arc, but I am really looking forward to the lore development from here on out.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

That's making a strong assumption about the nature of these holes. They can't be "filled with water" because they're seemingly endless. They would fill up from the endless waterfall eventually (lowering sea levels), but for whatever reason they don't. As it stands, "magic" is basically the only logical conclusion for how this thing works until we find out what's really at the bottom of the holes in Enies Lobby/Lulusia.

Maybe these holes recycle the oceans

Seems all the 4 seas dump their water into the Grand Line, and for whatever magical reason Calm Belts don't seem to circulate water/have currents. There might be the reverse of these holes in the 4 Seas where water erupts like a geyser in the middle of the sea.

 

[HereNThere]

Lovecraftian twist incoming: There's something alive down there, slithering around the core of the world. Kaidou and Big Mom tickled it, the motherflame weapon pissed it off.

That legit crossed my mind as well, though I was thinking more of the Leviathan side of things (same difference really).

I also think the earthquake and the water rising are directly connected to each other but that Lulusia kingdom may only have tangential connection e.g. the incident triggered/accelerated some separate geologic process.

My idea was that the Red Line is consuming land mass from underneath in order to grow, causing all islands to sink. This could be either from the existing Red Line rising up even higher or even better, a new Red Line forming that will even further divide the world and displace even more water.

It's also unclear if whatever is happening is a natural process influenced by events of the story (Lulusia) or is entirely artificial/man-made, where some technology is being used to geoengineer/terraform the planet. Maybe this is what Imu meant by another cleansing where they as god decided to flood the world (there are multiple real life myths/religions around this kind of thing).

Yeah, I don't think the fact that it was Lulusia matters at all. It just happened to be the target of Imu's wrath that day. It would've happened no matter what island was disintegrated by that mysterious UFO.

Don't know where I lean on the cause. The Leviathan/Lovecraft aspect would be fun, but wouldn't explain the rising water much. Something so large would already have the water increased and it moving would just displace it, but not cause a global rise (at least, I don't think). Given the focus on how technologically advanced the old world was, a man-made structure seems to be likely, specifically, something created to terraform the world as you mentioned. But again, creating enough water to cause the world's ocean to rise an entire meter is odd.

The simplest thing I can think of right now is the possibility that there is a huge chunk of ice at the center of the world and the Motherflame/Uranus/Mysterious UFO is the only thing strong enough to melt it. And everytime it melts it, it causes the water to rise. Thinking about it now, that may not be far from the truth. The weapon would bore down to where the Ice is and crack it. The crack grows over the week before a giant piece of ice is eventually displaced, causing the quake. Chunks of ice then reach the 4 Blues, melting along the way, causing the water to rise.

A bit of a stretch, but maybe that frozen room Imu kept that giant Strawhat in is related? Perhaps Imu and the WG has something they use to freeze things in time? There's also those frozen giants that we saw in Punk Hazard that we never got a chance to dwell on.

 

[Rein Avara]

 

[electricmastro]

Lovecraftian twist incoming: There's something alive down there, slithering around the core of the world. Kaidou and Big Mom tickled it, the motherflame weapon pissed it off.

At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if One Piece had an underworld you could visit.

 

[Terribles_toiles]

Very off-topic but why do I feel like she's slowly falling for Sanji.... yelling his name and all in the last chapter.
I don't think she even knows the other straw hats' names

Bonney 2.png

• Terribles_toiles
• Apr 29, 2024

 

[Battle Wolf]

Why ppl keep talking about the rising of water if the world will sink, not will flood

 

[Fox666]

wait a sec, if there is a hole where the water goes how does it raise the sea level? Do we lost all the water down to the hole?

The water has to go somewhere. If it's not filling the hole, then the sea level would rise.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2024 ---

Another thing, I used to think the Motherflame was the weapon, but I have to agree it makes more sense as being the fuel-source.
Like Dragon and co. said, it makes no sense for VP to make a weapon that has that much destructive capacity... no way York could make something so devious without the other VPs knowing.

The Mother Flame is not the power source. It's stated that The Mother Flame is produced by a power plant in Egghead.

The Japanese text for power plant are パワープラント (pawā puranto), which is just "power plant" romanized, and 融合炉 which means "fusion reactor".

Lilith mentioned the island of Egghead runs on fire. Vegapunk also mentioned creating a sun, which is powered by fusion reactions. So I think it's safe to say the power source of both Egghead and the Mother Flame is nuclear fusion.

The Mother Flame should not be confused with the UFO, instead it seems that the Mother Flame is a single-use projectile fired by the UFO. This makes sense if the Mother Flames is similar to a nuclear bomb.