Voting Round 2 Urek Mazino vs. Son Goku

[DERRICK S NIBLACK]

I love Goku but Uerik is just a beast. With just a snap of the finger he created a tornado. His defense is impregnable. He can also teleport but apparently if he uses that technique wrong he could nuke a whole floor.

We have yet to see Uerik at 100% as well.

 

[Blakestnight666]

I love Goku but Uerik is just a beast. With just a snap of the finger he created a tornado. His defense is impregnable. He can also teleport but apparently if he uses that technique wrong he could nuke a whole floor.

We have yet to see Uerik at 100% as well.

Yet it's nothing in front of a db character who can blow planets with a simple ki blasts

 

[lakhan220]

I love Goku but Uerik is just a beast. With just a snap of the finger he created a tornado. His defense is impregnable. He can also teleport but apparently if he uses that technique wrong he could nuke a whole floor.

We have yet to see Uerik at 100% as well.

they can create tsunamis and tornadoes with just a shout and rip holes in space time.
Correction - can make whole earth tremble with just small noise and then with shout can create tornadoes, rip apart time space and all tht.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yet it's nothing in front of a db character who can blow planets with a simple ki blasts

Excuse me? Eduan(weaker than Urek) can destroy half of the Tower simply by decompressing his spear so planet level + destruction is a thing here.

Isn't this contradictory statement in itself. React without thinking and foresight in same sentence ?
Why can't dodging and going to other planet be instinct ?

Foresight: Ability to see in the future. It's totally different from UI.

Goku's body reacts to the attacks: X throws a punch, Goku doesn't have to see the punch and react to it, his body does for him.

Instant transmission because his body perceived it as a threat ? Hmm, tht hand to hand only, is it specified ? Because i saw whis statement being theorotically undefeatable..something like compression/mafuba surely would have been included by him in the statement , wouldn't it be now ? Else, it starts looking stupid lmfao tht statement.

We saw Goku getting hit by attacks even in UI so using these absolute here doesn't work at all.


Compression isn't Mafuba, it's even better. No need to aim or lose your life force. Compression isn't mainly used to seal stuff. Compression would also nerf Goku's abilities and reduce his size. Also, Zeno, the strongest being of the verse doesn't have UI, do you think he would lose to Whis? No.

Sorry lambu, but i surely think whis statement abt UI being theoretically undefeatable included mafuba aka compression, time warp and other techs into consideration. Because if not, it is really stupid - the statement itself.

And besides tht, i also pointed other stuff. Stamina + reaction speed...i posted a clip above where in few moments gotenks travels arnd world multiple times.....and only in SS1 , we later have SS3, SS blue and UI...so speed increases exponentially. basically, u can find their reaction speed or the speed they can go to in their battles

My point is before urek even starts compression, Goku would have killed him multiple times.

Compression counter - release blast the size buu did above which almost decimated city like nothing. Battle starts, release omni directional blast. Urek either has to escape or try to compress blast and not goku and goku can easily kill him while he is busy dealing with it. If he decides to compress Goku, blast released still kills him.

I said early that light speed movements and teleportation are a thing in Tower of God. Urek is able to do both, we have feats and statements by the author himself. You guys really underestimate how strong the ToG verse is. If you read my post in the Urek VS Mob thread you can see Urek as a teenager(much weaker than the current one) moving so fast that his picture couldn't even be reflected in a mirror. I am just going to repost the link here:



And repost the link showing that Urek can distort space and casually kill people on a whole floor like this:

 

[lakhan220]

Foresight: Ability to see in the future. It's totally different from UI.

Goku's body reacts to the attacks: X throws a punch, Goku doesn't have to see the punch and react to it, his body does for him.

So, similarly, X starts an attack, his body auto insta transmits to another planet. Now, to travel whole universe level, u need to be able to have tht stamina too, which is in goku's favor.

Next what u showed me vs jiren is imperfected UI....wikia states he has perfected it now. So, tht limitation no longer applies.

his spear so planet level + destruction is a thing here.

Planet level was Vegeta at mere 35000 in dbz and now they r too broken to even be compared to tht level.

I said early that light speed movements and teleportation are a thing in Tower of God. Urek is able to do both, we have feats and statements by the author himself. You guys really underestimate how strong the ToG verse is. If you read my post in the Urek VS Mob thread you can see Urek as a teenager(much weaker than the current one) moving so fast that his picture couldn't even be reflected in a mirror. I am just going to repost the link here:

1- during using his speed...he is only using speed, not compression or any techniques combined, so speed alone is not going to work since stamina-wise too goku is far better.
2-distortion of space = Goku shouts like gotenks and destroys space time dimension itself.
3-Let's go by author statement and portrayal - it doesn't even look bigger than continent whereas mere small blast of buu was enough to destroy entire planet...so u can see difference in quality

We saw Goku getting hit by attacks even in UI so using these absolute here doesn't work at all. Compression isn't Mafuba, it's even better. No need to aim or lose your life force. Compression isn't mainly used to seal stuff. Compression would also nerf Goku's abilities and reduce his size. Also, Zeno, the strongest being of the verse doesn't have UI, do you think he would lose to Whis? No.

As I said, wikia says he perfected UI.
Ok, compression isn't like mafuba...and urek compresses goku,.....what is his upper limit ? reduce a forest.
There was candy vegito who beat hell out of buu iirc.

Let's say compression successful = goku's abilities nerfed. How much at most ?
Goku in UI can practically generate energy to destroy entire universe = several 1000 galaxies = several 1000 stars in each galaxy = several 1000 planets in their respective solar systems.

even at size of amoeba compressed, calculating, goku can destroy entire solar system.....So, at size of amoeba goku releases tht level energy and urek will be able to escape tht or survive ? How ?
ToG verse at most can go 2 planets and tht is me really being generous.

let me bring it down...not universe, just a galaxy...still urek will be able to survive blast tht can destroy several planets ?

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't have the time for a long post now, but the video I linked is Goku with perfect UI, he has the white eyes and hair. He still got hit.

And no, Urek's feat isn't his upper limit. That was a casual feat.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2021 ---

And the range only mattered here to show that Goku wouldn't be able to dodge. The properties of the technique are what matter the most.

 

[lakhan220]

I don't have the time for a long post now, but the video I linked is Goku with perfect UI, he has the white eyes and hair. He still got hit.

And no, Urek's feat isn't his upper limit. That was a casual feat.

Sorry, but wikia states he perfected his UI later after his fight with jiren , so how is tht perfected i fail to understand ?
i will give it to u to decide the upper most limit of urek and also the energy of goku in UI.

Also, let's make it tht goku is amoeba now. Then compare stats again.
U can even portray urek casually destroying planet effortlessly like beerus by just tapping paw, if it is there in manhwa. At least goku is tht level in UI right now.
If not, it means he needs time for preparation and goku won't allow it.

And omni directional compression vs omni directional blast like buu or vegeta. before getting to goku to compress him., tons of things needs to be taken care of. compress goku and be caught in blast or compress blast and be killed by goku ?

nd the range only mattered here to show that Goku wouldn't be able to dodge. The properties of the technique are what matter the most.

Tht is why i m giving u the liberty to decide the upper most limit of compression pls. U can also show in manhwa if it has it.

Tons of scenarios with which compression can be countered. But let's take it head on like cell vs gohan kamehameha.

 

[Demonspeed]

Again, I am busy ATM so I can't post much. I will just talk about UI for now. It seems you don't follow the anime/manga. Goku faced Jiren more than once, there are two forms of UI:

Incomplete and complete. As you can see in the video. Goku, with MUI get hit by Jiren. And it didn't only happen there. Whis also stated that Goku had perfected it in this match.

 

[lakhan220]

Again, I am busy ATM so I can't post much. I will just talk about UI for now. It seems you don't follow the anime/manga. Goku faced Jiren more than once, there are two forms of UI:

Incomplete and complete. As you can see in the video. Goku, with MUI get hit by Jiren. And it didn't only happen there. Whis also stated that Goku had perfected it in this match.

NP, when u get free, u can post. And nope, i haven't yet.
But came across interesting stuff ` galaxy-like disc of energy ` - so he is at least level of galaxy.

OK, i just saw tht video. Yep, goku can be hit in tht mode....but what is the level of the opponent in front of him ? it is like me saying dbz frieza can hit UI goku too . Honestly, i haven't yet seen urek's ultimate stats, which i m waiting for.

I m not gonna go into scenarios....my question is simple.
Upper most limit of compression ? AoE ? and casually being able to generate energy without any preparation to destroy a planet or 2.
because unless all tht - it is battle starts, both release their omni directional attack..who survives.

Also question regarding compression. How does it work ? what is AoE ? Can it target multiple objects ?

Basically i would like to see some panels on its working and mechanics.

 

[Lambu]

Isn't this contradictory statement in itself. React without thinking and foresight in same sentence ?
Why can't dodging and going to other planet be instinct ?
Instant transmission because his body perceived it as a threat ? Hmm, tht hand to hand only, is it specified ? Because i saw whis statement being theorotically undefeatable..something like compression/mafuba surely would have been included by him in the statement , wouldn't it be now ? Else, it starts looking stupid lmfao tht statement.



Sorry lambu, but i surely think whis statement abt UI being theoretically undefeatable included mafuba aka compression, time warp and other techs into consideration. Because if not, it is really stupid - the statement itself.

And besides tht, i also pointed other stuff. Stamina + reaction speed...i posted a clip above where in few moments gotenks travels arnd world multiple times.....and only in SS1 , we later have SS3, SS blue and UI...so speed increases exponentially. basically, u can find their reaction speed or the speed they can go to in their battles

My point is before urek even starts compression, Goku would have killed him multiple times.

Compression counter - release blast the size buu did above which almost decimated city like nothing. Battle starts, release omni directional blast. Urek either has to escape or try to compress blast and not goku and goku can easily kill him while he is busy dealing with it. If he decides to compress Goku, blast released still kills him.

Lak, what Whis says loses all relevance when his statement is debunked later on. This happens all the time in DB, each form was the "peak" before becoming just another level to go through.
Also yes, DB is contradictory as hell and you cant take what the characters say at face value.

UI was stated to be the best martial ability that only the Top Gods of DB (Angels) have mastered. To act on instinct instead of thought. This means that against an incoming attack the user doesnt need to think "Im going to dodge like this", instead the body starts avoiding on his own.
But that "stimuli" has to be perceived regardless, UI doesnt allow the user to dodge anything or predict enemy attacks. Thats why Goku can still be hit by enemies in that state.

As for the speed I'll repeat again. Im talking about combat speed. Travelling speed in DB is not to be taken seriously for it is too inconsistent even in its own series.
DB chararacters have trouble dodging ki attacks to the point they have to block them. These energy attacks are obviously way below light speed as they can see them coming. The light irradiated from those attacks travels way faster than the attack itself or else the characters would not be able to see them travelling towards them. Its rather simple physics, nothing too complicated.

I also feel like DB fans in general dont quite understand how brutal lightspeed is. To reach light speed means to be capable of making almost 8 rounds around our Earth in 1 second. I havent seen a DB character reach that kind of speed yet in combat, and Im taking the Dyspo statement as a benefit of the doubt...

Lol man you are really something .

I have been debunking you from who knows when. Suppressed frieza casually destroyed planet vegeta by throwing a supernova and this has been shown in dbs broly movie He casually destroys earth in resurrection of F before vegeta could react.

And lol those destroying the core thing has been retconned years ago and you are still hung on it lol.

Dude you surely lowball db to hell. Dbz characters are reletivistic in the beginning of z. Raditz was easily dodging attacks that could reach the moon in an instant. Dyspo was faster than light and by an unqantifiable amount.

And what's with this travelling speed being unquntifable when gotenks was moving acoss the planet multiple times, goku during moro fight was travelling the entire planet under a second, or kid buu who is going across the entire galaxy destroying planets and solar systems.

Man you are the worst lowbslling debater i have ever come across.

Gotenks travelling the globe multiple times and even took rest.

Goku and moro moving across the earth so fast that Moro could even create a clone which moved from a different side.

Beerus and champa moving at mftl speed destroying planet after planet.

Piccolo's casual attack could destroy the moon instantly.

and radditz dodged this his blasts easily

This dude...

I mean, I shouldnt be wasting time debating with someone that has no intention of debating, just lecturing. Kind of pointless but whatever.

- Resurrection of F happened in DBSuper man.
- Dyspo's mode was defined as "Supermaximum Light Speed mode". I have my reserves about calling it actual light speed but it was the first time the term was used in the series.
- Gotenks made dozens of laps to the earth, then went to Majin Buu's location and his fusion expired... wasn't it 30 minutes? Just saiyan...
- In that scene Moro created a clone that moved in another direction to catch Goku from another side. He didnt "move so fast he managed to make two routes at the same time" lol, why not just catch up to Goku then. Baka Moro...
- In the Beerus-Champ scene it should ring some alarms how the planets are so close together. I mean, you do know DB universe doesnt have the dimensions of our Universe... right? Of course you do, theres no way you would make such an absurd assumption.
- Piccolo destroying the moon is basically the same as Roshi destroying it at the first Tenkaichi, a product of Toriyama's genius scaling.


Still, I can see why you may say Im lowballing DB, bsing and whatever. After all, fanatics tend to believe the people they speak with hold the same mindset as them.

Actually, this debate made me realize Goku might not be light speed after all. Voting Mazino for the time being.

 

[lakhan220]

ak, what Whis says loses all relevance when his statement is debunked later on. This happens all the time in DB, each form was the "peak" before becoming just another level to go through.
Also yes, DB is contradictory as hell and you cant take what the characters say at face value.

UI was stated to be the best martial ability that only the Top Gods of DB (Angels) have mastered. To act on instinct instead of thought. This means that against an incoming attack the user doesnt need to think "Im going to dodge like this", instead the body starts avoiding on his own.
But that "stimuli" has to be perceived regardless, UI doesnt allow the user to dodge anything or predict enemy attacks. Thats why Goku can still be hit by enemies in that state.

As for the speed I'll repeat again. Im talking about combat speed. Travelling speed in DB is not to be taken seriously for it is too inconsistent even in its own series.
DB chararacters have trouble dodging ki attacks to the point they have to block them. These energy attacks are obviously way below light speed as they can see them coming. The light irradiated from those attacks travels way faster than the attack itself or else the characters would not be able to see them travelling towards them. Its rather simple physics, nothing too complicated.

I also feel like DB fans in general dont quite understand how brutal lightspeed is. To reach light speed means to be capable of making almost 8 rounds around our Earth in 1 second. I havent seen a DB character reach that kind of speed yet in combat, and Im taking the Dyspo statement as a benefit of the doubt...

I m also talking abt reaction and combat speed. My example was travelling arnd world in multiple mins several times at least states something abt stamina + speed.
Let's not get into physics, because travelling faster than speed of light is practically impossible and tht would generate paradox which means upsetting casuality due to moving back in relative time. Yet, urek travels at a speed which can't be captured by mirror. It is possible at light speed since emitting rays need to strike mirror in order to reflect. Scientifically, energy will be emitted for sure, but urek can bypass those laws and move arnd like tht.

Space time distortion etc....if we will start getting into physics, Newton and Einstein will cry looking at tons of this type of series. So, no, i think DB fans r aware of how brutal to reach light speed is. It is just the manga world is build as so.

Sure, iirc, Goku used it multiple times against buu to avoid his blasts in final fight, but buu himself could use tht too countering goku. IT tht is.
Now, let's not forget the very primary thing in DB - dodging = need to do it not ability to do it. stopping and diverting = superior display of power.

like how first goku directed all of frieza's beams tht killed dende. Sure, he could have dodged them but he didn't.

As for UI, like i stated to demon above, ok, he can be hit...but takes jiren level fighter.
How compression works ? AOE ? upper limit of compresssion....upper limit of goku too he can decide.

simple question is Omni compression vs Omni blast + stamina to keep on using tht tech for multiple ones. Can state the best feat of urek in terms of planetary destruction without any preparation time.

Gotenks made dozens of laps to the earth, then went to Majin Buu's location and his fusion expired... wasn't it 30 minutes? Just saiyan...

he took a nap, then he went on to fight buu and then he came back.



Btw, can someone tell me who nominated Goku ?

 

[Lambu]

I m also talking abt reaction and combat speed. My example was travelling arnd world in multiple mins several times at least states something abt stamina + speed.
Let's not get into physics, because travelling faster than speed of light is practically impossible and tht would generate paradox which means upsetting casuality due to moving back in relative time. Yet, urek travels at a speed which can't be captured by mirror. It is possible at light speed since emitting rays need to strike mirror in order to reflect. Scientifically, energy will be emitted for sure, but urek can bypass those laws and move arnd like tht.

Space time distortion etc....if we will start getting into physics, Newton and Einstein will cry looking at tons of this type of series. So, no, i think DB fans r aware of how brutal to reach light speed is. It is just the manga world is build as so.

Sure, iirc, Goku used it multiple times against buu to avoid his blasts in final fight, but buu himself could use tht too countering goku. IT tht is.
Now, let's not forget the very primary thing in DB - dodging = need to do it not ability to do it. stopping and diverting = superior display of power.

like how first goku directed all of frieza's beams tht killed dende. Sure, he could have dodged them but he didn't.

As for UI, like i stated to demon above, ok, he can be hit...but takes jiren level fighter.
How compression works ? AOE ? upper limit of compresssion....upper limit of goku too he can decide.

simple question is Omni compression vs Omni blast + stamina to keep on using tht tech for multiple ones. Can state the best feat of urek in terms of planetary destruction without any preparation time.



he took a nap, then he went on to fight buu and then he came back.



Btw, can someone tell me who nominated Goku ?

His nominator is Juvs

Im also not a fan of applying physics to fiction but the term Speed of Light is what it is: to move as fast as light, which has a set speed. No DB character has proved to be capable of moving at that speed so when I see statements as mftl++++ applied to DB Imma call bs.

Goku, as well as many other characters, are faced with attacks that they would rather dodge than intercept, but they are forced to resist them despite seeing them coming. That is sign theres no light speed battling in this manga.

As for Gotenks taking a nap... Sounds like plain bragging from Gotenks but if you are assuming he made those laps then took a 29 minutes nap and went to battle Buu... well its up to you.

 

[Valhalla]

 

[Blakestnight666]

You do know that it's from the movie and in the series goku was in his base form and had his guard lowerd

 

[Valhalla]

You do know that it's from the movie and in the series goku was in his base form and had his guard lowerd

I know, i just like this gif

 

[Lambu]

Yeah theres no point answering anymore.

 

[lakhan220]

His nominator is Juvs

Im also not a fan of applying physics to fiction but the term Speed of Light is what it is: to move as fast as light, which has a set speed. No DB character has proved to be capable of moving at that speed so when I see statements as mftl++++ applied to DB Imma call bs.

Goku, as well as many other characters, are faced with attacks that they would rather dodge than intercept, but they are forced to resist them despite seeing them coming. That is sign theres no light speed battling in this manga.

As for Gotenks taking a nap... Sounds like plain bragging from Gotenks but if you are assuming he made those laps then took a 29 minutes nap and went to battle Buu... well its up to you.

Why is tht alien plant not posting then ?

Well, we go by author's statement....he says he can transport at speed of light...we will keep it as it is.
And u r mixing reaction + combat speed with transport.

Forced to r ones where the risk of planet blasting is there or them losing combat grounds....this is the same goku who didn't destroy buu when he probably could because he wanted gotenks and gohan have tht go at it. And gohan went on kamehameha tussle with cell before final one.
I never said light speed battling. Batting at very high speed. And they r faster relatively than any other series for sure bar very few. be it combat speed or reaction speed.

other examples too..Majin buu circling arnd planet kai multiple times before dropping as meteor on goku. And certainly tht didn't take few mins where goku can switch off his mode and just enjoy meal and get his energy back......1 full minute was what goku needed to get his energy back or was it 10 ? Certainly i don't remember it being tht long....so, there again, u have speed far better than urek for sure or most characters in this tournament .

I know, i just like this gif

not to worry, urek is not doing it even to goku in base form much less super saiyan blue. Still a good gif.

 

[desin24]

Are you implying that Urek has the destructive capabilities of a laser gun?

 

[Valhalla]

Are you implying that Urek has the destructive capabilities of a laser gun?

Less than 0.01% of his finger should be enough to match that 1% would be overkill

 

[Demonspeed]

About Urek's upper limit, it is unknown. Because we never saw his full power, but we have some feats in the story, statements by the author and can scale what he can do compared to other characters who are weaker than him. Unlike Toriyama, SIU is particular about feats and world building. I said it in the previous thread, but casually destroying a floor isn't an issue for Urek, Guardians and the Family Heads. SIU lets him do amazing stuff once in a while when he is fooling around and tease us about his full power.

A floor is at least as big as North America, the wikia says that it makes the Tower at least 11 times bigger than earth. A character weaker than Urek can destroy half of the Tower simply by decompressing one of his spears so do the maths there. The character card about him having LS attacks have been there for more than a decade and as we advance, we do see that there is no reason to doubt any of that.

You do know that it's from the movie and in the series goku was in his base form and had his guard lowerd

I wonder what would have been your answer if he had posted the bullet one... .