Hangout Mokushiroku no Yonkishi Hangout Thread

[Demonspeed]

I wonder if King’s taught Lance Dancing Fairy yet . Homebrewed & ran a fight in D&D using him & thought it’d be a cool way to reincorporate it if Nakaba wants to push his Magic reveal back a tad further . If anyone can make that gag hold merit , it’s obviously either him & | or Dahlia .

Dancing Fairy?

 

[Brim787]

Yeah , you remember the Fighting Dance gag he used when he fought Cain at Vaizel ?

Dancing Fairy「踊る妖精ダンシングフェアリー, Danshingu Fearī」: A fight dance that has been passed down through the Fairy Clan for generations. Using this technique, King leaps into the air & charges at his opponent while rapidly jabbing with his fists. It is very weak & the charge can be stopped with 1 finger.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 11, 2023 ---

In the updated Mangasee version of Chapter 59 , the sidestory where Percy & co question Lancelot’s relation to Ban is present . Funny enough , he has the same effects around him as Anne’s lie detector .

Definitely implies he still thinks very highly of his father , akin to a fan . So endearing .

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2023 ---

I also like how it’s been 3 Years , & we still don’t know what Lancelot & Tristan’s Magics are . They’ve been leading the dance purely off their racial bonuses .

Gawain was an obvious given . & Percival got his super early . That way , in a sense , we wouldn’t suspect much or beg for the reveals too much until he felt like hinting . If he keeps this up , we’ll be freight trained at their reveals .

 

[Mighty Escanor]

I guess it's the best place to share semi relevant and irrelevant! info and theories, so here we go:

1. There are at least three characters in various Arthurian stories whose powers are related to the Time of the Day. Sir Gawain, Large Escanor, and Sir Ironside, the red knight of the red lands. So Ironside is a Sunshine dude , but not in 4KotA for sure! Wanna check it yourselves? Here's a useful link:

Nightbringer.se

The Legend of King Arthur: Ironside

nightbringer.se

2. Instead of King Pellinore and King Lot, Nakaba chose Sir Ironside and Sir Kay(?) as Percival's and Gawain's dads respectively. It's a weird decision at least in Ironside's case. His relation to Sir Gareth and his changing power links him to Gawain more strongly than Percival. Unless there is more to this decision than meets the eye.

3. Pellegard is most probably based on Percard the black knight, who is another opponent of Sir Gareth. In fact he is the first color knight to challenge Gareth on his first mission.

4. Gareth appeared in Chiguhagu lovers alongside Morgan, Galahad, Bors, Mordred, and Balin. Chiguhagu lovers was like a successor to Rising Impact. There is a high chance that some if not all of these characters also appear in 4KotA. Bors as Kiane's boy, and Mordred more likely as a villain. Gareth is the third character with a high chance of joining 4KotA considering the number of characters and concepts(?) borrowed from his story.

5. Gareth fights with a black knight, a green knight, a blue knight, and two different knights clad in red armor. Gareth fought them one by one on his way to Castle Perilous. In 4KotA, there is a group of Chaos knights called the four perils, and Ironside is one of them. There is a very high chance that Pellegard is one of them too.

It's reasonable to believe Sir Gareth will join the story at some point, as Gawain's brother, platoon member, or even her lover. 4KotA Gawain is most probably Sir Kay's adopted daughter instead of Morgause and Lot's biological child. So Gawain and Gareth doesn't need to be siblings or cousins here.

As for Sir Bors and Sir Mordred, their involvement is almost guaranteed imo.

 

[Zorra_akuma]

Friendly reminder that 4kota will return may 10th with official translations again due to the k manga app and website launching (US only) so we’ll be back to simultaneous releases with japan

 

[Undina]

Their teaser and whatnot are not available to me, so can someone tell me in broad strokes what it is about?

 

[Mighty Escanor]

I know I'm late for Origin related discussions, but the 2nd trailer and the most recently released gameplay video contain some very interesting details I'd like to mention here.

1. For the first part, "Let's talk about Kiane's children...". Tioreh has the ability to create/summon(?) creatures, and those who've appeared so far seem to follow a very specific pattern:

In the second trailer, she sent a blue Fox and a little Dragon to help Tristan, and then we saw a bipedal Lion created/summoned(?) by Tioreh in the other video. Should we expect to see a bear, a serpent, a goat, and a boar to come to her aide as well?

2. The final part of second trailer catches me off guard each time I watch it! I don't know about the exact timeline, but don't expect Escanor to be alive during the events of Origin. Is that a sign that Escanor will actually appear as a playable character at some point? Is that scene about Gawain who unlike other KotA, has not appeared on any of Origin official materials so far? Have they finally decided to expand the lore of Rhitta and address her will?

 

[Undina]

Yeah , you remember the Fighting Dance gag he used when he fought Cain at Vaizel ?

Dancing Fairy「踊る妖精ダンシングフェアリー, Danshingu Fearī」: A fight dance that has been passed down through the Fairy Clan for generations. Using this technique, King leaps into the air & charges at his opponent while rapidly jabbing with his fists. It is very weak & the charge can be stopped with 1 finger.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 14, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 11, 2023 ---

In the updated Mangasee version of Chapter 59 , the sidestory where Percy & co question Lancelot’s relation to Ban is present . Funny enough , he has the same effects around him as Anne’s lie detector .

Definitely implies he still thinks very highly of his father , akin to a fan . So endearing .

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2023 ---

I also like how it’s been 3 Years , & we still don’t know what Lancelot & Tristan’s Magics are . They’ve been leading the dance purely off their racial bonuses .

Gawain was an obvious given . & Percival got his super early . That way , in a sense , we wouldn’t suspect much or beg for the reveals too much until he felt like hinting . If he keeps this up , we’ll be freight trained at their reveals .

Brim, I'm kinda missing the side-stories, where can I find and read them?

 

[Demonspeed]

Brim, I'm kinda missing the side-stories, where can I find and read them?

Found this link which has all the Extras so far. The last one isn't translated but you can find the translations here.

As for K Manga, it's just a platform which will have manga series from Kodansha, MnY included.

 

[Brim787]

Brim, I'm kinda missing the side-stories, where can I find and read them?

Dancing Fairy was actually from the Vaizel Arc (late 30s , was King v. Cain)

Sidestories I either look up specifically or check Mangasee . Primarily the 5 story issue of Sins works there , which had a sidestory I just recently found called “A Dangerous Errand .” You’ll find everything easily , as there’s a few out somewhere even I haven’t read yet , judging by the wiki .

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2023 ---

“You speak what you eat ..” or whatever Sanic sed .

 

[Undina]

I missed that tattoo, must've been a tracking spell Ironside or Arthur used to find Varghese and Percy.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2023 ---

Dancing Fairy was actually from the Vaizel Arc (late 30s , was King v. Cain)

And yeah, Old Fart tried Dancing Fairy on Cain and failed hard.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2023 ---

I think I've already read the last one's translation, so it's all good. I wanted the content on the characters mainly, which I'd seen used in snippets around here and in the chapter threads discussing them.
Anne got some wild advice on romance from her mom, lmao.

 

[Brim787]

Ahh . Yeah , just look through my Profile Posts . I think I posted everything I use . Boar Hat site , the Q&A Doc made by Hearts Love , Twitter & Nakaba’s blog . Though if I remember anything , I’ll let you know .

 

[Vortigern]

Tioreh has the ability to create/summon(?) creatures

I initially leaned more towards Tioreh creating those animals with her magic, but I recently checked some stuff in the manga and spotted this cover page that made me reconsider.

Spoiler

As you can see, not just one but two of these bipedal lion creatures already appeared in the manga all the way back in 2016. The events depicted in the illustration are presumably non-canon, but if Nakaba drew the Sins encountering a pair of those creatures like this, then that suggests he envisioned them as part of Britannia's natural fauna. Granted, the one that Tioreh summons has a pink mane rather than a blue one, which suggests that it's a little different from these two, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that means it has to be an artificial creation. That could just be individual variation in fur color.

Spoiler

Interestingly, the lion behind Elizabeth in the color page is way larger than Tioreh's lion pet. Tioreh appears to be about half the height of her lion, whereas Elizabeth would be lucky to reach the other one's ankles. If we assume that the snowball Diane is holding is the same size as the one she threw at the other lion, then these creatures might actually be about as tall as a giant. I think this suggests that, just like Tioreh herself, her pets are still not fully grown. This could be relevant when you consider that her dragon pet bears a strong resemblance to the ancient dragon baby that appeared in the Cant arc.

Spoiler

The body proportions, the big T-Rex jaw, the differently colored underbelly, the three toes, the two front claws, the chin spikes and the horns are all quite similar. They're not identical, but close enough that I could definitely see them belonging to the same species. The one in Cant was less than a year old, so Tioreh's one is probably a little older than that, but still clearly a juvenile.

The reason I bring this up is because Guinevere's prophecies teased a 4-7 year timeskip, which might be enough for these creatures to grow to their full size, especially when you consider that Tristan as he appears in Origin seems to be at least a couple of years younger than he is in the sequel manga. A giant lion and an ancient dragon, along with five other animals? Tioreh hasn't even appeared in the manga yet and her endgame arsenal already seems very promising. Seeing how her abilities are themed around animals, I wonder if her sibling(s) could have a plant/earth theme? Together they'd basically have total dominion over nature, which would be a nice complement to the celestial theme of the Rising Impact trio.

In the second trailer, she sent a blue Fox and a little Dragon to help Tristan, and then we saw a bipedal Lion created/summoned(?) by Tioreh in the other video. Should we expect to see a bear, a serpent, a goat, and a boar to come to her aide as well?

We've actually already seen Tioreh with a pet bear. Redworld posted a picture of it in the thread about King and Diane's children. I guess I might as well quote her post here since it deals with some of the same topics I covered just now:

I also have questions about that, because while some beasts like her fox and dragon could be just magical creatures like Oslo was, I really doubt a huge humanized and pink Lion which casually recreates the same attack Escanor used to do with his sunshine really exists as an own magical animal. I bet this one is actually one of Tioreh's creations. That big bear may also a creation rather than a magical creature, the way of serving her reminds me of Guardian somehow.

@HereNThere mentioned previously that she could be using a magic combinated of her parents' , and while I dont think she inherited Disaster, I can think she can use Creation (she's half-giant after all) along with her own fairy magic in a different level where she is able to create "golems" made by another type of matter (or who knows, maybe they're made of earth after all but in a different level her mother has, since Tioreh is hybrid).

Whatever it is, her fighting style really caught my attention. It seems she's really influenced by the Legend of the 7 Deadly Sins. I wonder if she will also summon serpent, goat and wild boar during the story of Origin.

 

[Zorra_akuma]

So bad news

we aren’t getting leaks this week for 106 because someone reported the persons insta account so they won’t buy them this week

gotta wait till Tuesday unfortunately

people suck

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2023, Original Post Date: May 18, 2023 ---

manga cover for volume 12

 

[Mighty Escanor]

@Undina, your negativity toward that moment is so extreme it actually surprises me! You've concerns about Gawain's not being similar to older cast while Tristan looks OK to you. I'm so curious to know the reason of such negativity and double standards.

Btw, this topic is not related to the chapter itself, let's continue it in hangout thread.

I was calm before you urged me to. The problem is that Gowther didn't change the Earth's rotation pattern/speed for Sunshine to believably power up Escanor and alter his physique right before he summoned Rhitta(we can believe that he used solar energy stored in it VS Glox and Drole, but there's no explanation to Sunshine modifying him before Rhitta arrived, especially since the grace didn't like him well enough to not destroy him, so why react to his feelings for Merlin in the middle of actual night? no explanation). Nor did Gowther make Escanor hallucinate they were in the middle of the day, to, again, do some realisitc, by this franchise's standards, positive change.

Gowther put Escanor in a mental state isolated from it's surroundings. Inside his inner world, Escanor imagined what had illuminated everything. It could only make sense because Gowther locked him inside his mind.

And then his body reacted to that psychological form of the Sun. Why should it be possible? I'll explain it later.

But seriously, if Escanor reacted to the Sun he could see in the dream and changed form, would you call it a better development? I can't relate to that part of your post.

The feelings may affect Spirit's values, but why would Spirit affect an ability that literally needs to draw energy/mana from an outsde source unavailable at the time?!
So it's an out of nowhere and just for convenience's sake a**pull, in terms of mechanics, like I've argued before. Before and after this scene, the power of feelings was only ever used in managing one's conviction to actually use power they already had. Power that wasn't reliant on an outside source. But Escanor, as always before and after this, was dependent on the literal Sun.

You are limiting Escanor's power source to literal Sun, and then accuse Nakaba of changing the pattern. It's so wrong because throughout NnT, Escanor used 4 completely different sources of power.

Don't think it wasn't Nakaba who denied consistency? Because what you deem consistent seems to be nonexistent based on manga.

Aside from the various sources of power for Escanor (4 to be exact), the transformation we're talking about occurred in Escanor's second fight in main story (third one including Vampires of Edinburgh). Nakaba couldn't even establish a consistent power system for Escanor during such a short time. How can we accuse him of breaking it then?

Unlike Mael, he didn't have separate magic from Sunshine, nor a genuinely special body, he was merely human and he paid for that very expensively.

Ironic, isn't it? It was in chapter 170 that Escanor's special constitution was mentioned. We got to know how his body is involved and and some of the functions and abilities of Rhitta.

I don't hate him, I hate Nakaba for ruining the poetry in his feelings for Merlin(one of the traits trait that did make Escanor lovable), by making it as random a power up as...well...all the random excuses Nakaba built for Merlin either being able to do something, being unable to do something, or knowing stuff about some races that even their top members never learned. Nor should she have, since it was stuff even the DK and SD would've never shared out of the desire to keep the stuff they wanted out of the way...out of the way. But Nakaba ruins that for one random fanservice moment.

Again I don't know how you can call it random power up and fanservice moment. It was the third time he made a move. One out of three was fueled by emotions. Three is not enough to create a meaningful pattern. There's no way that could be called random.

Why compare a character whose magical power is reliant on the Sun and only really 40 years old to a warrior whose power/skill and 3000+ years old experience were with him at all times? And we've no estimation for how "base" was "base Mel" at the point he fought DK Zel. Plus, he wasn't fighting alone, and it was maybe the only manga moment where we've seen Elizabeth using buffs too. I don't recall any other scene for the life of me. Unless we count the triskele behind her goddess self powering up her best Hikari Are to date.

I didn't compare. I didn't mention Mel for comparison.

The story was not in need of a dues ex machina at that point, because the plot destroyer himself was watching the show. Independent of Escanor's action, Mel had the ability to f**k Dolor and Glox from the start. We now it based on official data. He always had the power, but didn't feel like using it, or he was afraid of ... let's say something.

Escanor's Gaiden, and Zel and DK ideas 100% proves that Mel of the 7DS was always powerful enough to solve any problem. This includes the second Vaizel festival as well.

Not a single panel explained why Sunshine would make their holder buff in the middle of the night just cause he was thinking happy thoughts of his love interest either. Those happy thoughts would naturally raise Spirit, but that it's pointless when your whole magical ability revolves around borrowing power from an external source with a presence pattern that puts you half at high to absolute advantage, half in the pits.

Not a single panel limited Escanor's ability to what you described above. Escanor's body buffed in response to the Sun, the energy saves in Rhitta, the psychological image of the Merlin as a Sun, and the energy provided by burning the lifeforce. Even though The One Ultimate was like another form of Escanor from the outside, it was not related to the location of the Sun as the only source of power. Sins also said it clearly, it is not sunshine anymore. While the output remained the same, the source was changed. It's enough to believe a powerful emotion, inspiration, or imagination can act as the source of similar bodily response without defying inconsistency.

The grace defines the output, but Escanor's bodily response is unique. That's why Sunshine works differently for him compared to Mael, and how his mental state and lifeforce could act as an actual Sun under specific circumferences.

I still believe the true charm of mental Sun was it's poetic and metaphorical aspect. But it can be explained by NnT logic as well.

Escanor's body is special because:

1. It could bear the burden of Sunshine for more than 40 years.

2. It would change in response to a specific set of triggers and sources. (we saw 4 of them in NnT.)

Again, the poetry makes sense, the technical aspects are spit in the faces of the readers and surpass even the power creep. It's not about the character even, it's about Nakaba's randomness with some of these characters and their powers/abilities, what makes me frustrated with him when it comes to Elizabeth too, my still favourite character from the previous series. It bugs me to no end when writers go and mess with stuff that previously had earned them respect for providing good quality work.
And since Nakaba went and did some reprobable sh*t in character writing...again...I'd loathe to see him repeat what took away from characters like Merlin and Escanor in Taizai with Gawain. Whatever Gawain is at origin, I really hope she's the embodiment of "lesson learned" by the end of her character arc.

Elizabeth's character arc was completed in NnT. Aside from minor details, nothing about her remained unexplained. The same doesn't apply to Merlin and Escanor. As a result, they don't need a child to pass on their genes. Their successor has the responsibility of putting an end to what was started in NnT.

Any deviation from the continuation of EscaLin plotline, and Gawain will become the very embodiment of a random character you seem to dislike.

This only further proves my point, the random uniqueness of the event makes it even sillier, as Chandler was only doing a PoD spell(not altering Earth's physics either, afaik), where Sunshine finding a way to break through it(during actual daytime and on Sunshine's natural clock) owed to Escanor getting a Spirit stat rise for all his intense and unconditional love would've made perfect sense, as opposed to when the Sun was on the other side of the Earth, which according to Nakaba should be our Earth, with the same rotation patterns and such.

Your assumption is wrong. A fictional universe doesn't need to behave like the real one. When Vampire King Izraf brought the night over Edinburgh, the curtain was not enough to block the effects of Sun on Escanor's body. He buffed even though the sky was dark.

Although Pacifier's night couldn't change the relative position of Sun and the Earth, it was still seen by NnT characters as the true night. The fact that Nakaba add that piece of dialogue means the night he created acted as the real one. His magic wasn't explained further, so we don't know about the mechanism. But Escanor reverted back to night from each time the spell activated. Pacifier could do something Izraf couldn't.

Mael wasn't affected, but he was not within the range of spell when it activated.

 

[Zorra_akuma]

鈴木央のだらだらブログリターンズ : 110回目のだらだら #黙示録の四騎士 12巻発売！ #七つの大罪 #グラクロ

Nakaba updated his blog

 

[Mighty Escanor]

OK, I tend to become talkative when it comes to Escanor sama lol. But I must address (and accept) the negative aspects of this character as well.

I'm aware that his midnight buff, and some other feats like overcoming Estarossa's Full Counter were not entailed by the plot. But these deviations occurred mostly at the beginning. Escanor entered NnT as someone whose existence was a mystery. No one had a clear idea of why and how a human can have this much power. Each time he engaged in a battle, the mystery grew as unexpected events piled up one after another.

0. His power and dual personality was a matter of interest for Merlin. She couldn't explain her observations in the beginning.

1. Izraf's fake night couldn't block the effects of Sun, even though it blocked the light itself. Something that surprised Izraf and the audience in addition to the his form and power.

2. His mental iteration of Sun initiated the buff process. Gowther was the one to address the effect. Fans called it BS.

3. His blow cut Estarossa's chest even though the latter had reflected it seconds earlier. Although it couldn't be explained at all, this little detail caused less problems. Escanor worshippers were enjoying the "who decided that" phrase so much they missed most of the details, and haters had started to brand anything Escanor related as BS.

To me, that was a more questionable feat than the previous ones, but it was less visible!

By the time we wondered if he is a mysterious character or a walking plot device, Nakaba decided to let us know about the Grace of Sunshine. But i stead of making things better, it led to more questions and ambiguities.

The plot was seriously in need of a proper backstory. About what happened to him in his childhood. When the grace entered his body. The reason why he was chosen, and an why his body wasn't immediately destoryed by Sunshine. We never get to know why Rosa resembles Merlin, and who destroyed the kingdom of Castellio.

For now, Escanor is a random human with a body weaker than that of an average man. He just happened to hold a power he was not supposed to, and had moments of BS power ups and plot convenient feats. He was alive because of plot armor, and he is a plot device instead of an actual character.

These are all true, but things could differ. A proper explanation and what we call random could become a necessity! But Nakaba didn't answer them. One amy argue that if Nakaba didn't explore his past, why should we care about it? He was bad, he is dead.

Only because of the incompleteness of his plot, I still have hope! Can't see I wasn't disappointed and heartbroken at the end of NnT. Day Escanor was a failure. Nught Escanor, the bearer of internal struggles had a full Character arc, but Day Escanor was a static powerhouse.

Gawain's existence is a hint that Sunshine was supposed to have a two parter plot. I prefer to postpone my final judgement for when 4KotA is finished too. If Sunshine isn't explored by then, I promise I'd have more reason to hate Sunshine that the majority of haters!

 

[Demonspeed]

OK, I tend to become talkative when it comes to Escanor sama lol. But I must address (and accept) the negative aspects of this character as well.

I'm aware that his midnight buff, and some other feats like overcoming Estarossa's Full Counter were not entailed by the plot. But these deviations occurred mostly at the beginning. Escanor entered NnT as someone whose existence was a mystery. No one had a clear idea of why and how a human can have this much power. Each time he engaged in a battle, the mystery grew as unexpected events piled up one after another.

0. His power and dual personality was a matter of interest for Merlin. She couldn't explain her observations in the beginning.

1. Izraf's fake night couldn't block the effects of Sun, even though it blocked the light itself. Something that surprised Izraf and the audience in addition to the his form and power.

2. His mental iteration of Sun initiated the buff process. Gowther was the one to address the effect. Fans called it BS.

3. His blow cut Estarossa's chest even though the latter had reflected it seconds earlier. Although it couldn't be explained at all, this little detail caused less problems. Escanor worshippers were enjoying the "who decided that" phrase so much they missed most of the details, and haters had started to brand anything Escanor related as BS.

To me, that was a more questionable feat than the previous ones, but it was less visible!

By the time we wondered if he is a mysterious character or a walking plot device, Nakaba decided to let us know about the Grace of Sunshine. But i stead of making things better, it led to more questions and ambiguities.

The plot was seriously in need of a proper backstory. About what happened to him in his childhood. When the grace entered his body. The reason why he was chosen, and an why his body wasn't immediately destoryed by Sunshine. We never get to know why Rosa resembles Merlin, and who destroyed the kingdom of Castellio.

For now, Escanor is a random human with a body weaker than that of an average man. He just happened to hold a power he was not supposed to, and had moments of BS power ups and plot convenient feats. He was alive because of plot armor, and he is a plot device instead of an actual character.

These are all true, but things could differ. A proper explanation and what we call random could become a necessity! But Nakaba didn't answer them. One amy argue that if Nakaba didn't explore his past, why should we care about it? He was bad, he is dead.

Only because of the incompleteness of his plot, I still have hope! Can't see I wasn't disappointed and heartbroken at the end of NnT. Day Escanor was a failure. Nught Escanor, the bearer of internal struggles had a full Character arc, but Day Escanor was a static powerhouse.

Gawain's existence is a hint that Sunshine was supposed to have a two parter plot. I prefer to postpone my final judgement for when 4KotA is finished too. If Sunshine isn't explored by then, I promise I'd have more reason to hate Sunshine that the majority of haters!

Only now do I realize that you are Blazar .

 

[Mighty Escanor]

After NnT, I was so disappointed I changed the name of my account. But I can once more hope for a well written story with 4KotA, Gawain, and off course Horse Escanor sama. It was time to have my original name back!

 

[Zorra_akuma]

volume 12 sales it’s in the top 3

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 18, 2023 ---

We still in the top 10

 

[Tristan]

How did Mael hear Escanor's "Prayer"??? Sounds like a goddess version of Heart Reading