A Fateful Encounter

[Nii]

I am doing alright what about you? so long time no speak

Yeah sorry for the late answer Kiki D:

Doing fine too, will be done with my second job in a week or two, so that's actually great Quite a bit more free time, especially on the weekends, I hope.
Also, good to know you're doing alright

 

[Kiki]

Yeah sorry for the late answer Kiki D:

Doing fine too, will be done with my second job in a week or two, so that's actually great Quite a bit more free time, especially on the weekends, I hope.
Also, good to know you're doing alright

nii be collecting money for the japanese stuff any plan on visiting japan again?

 

[Nii]

nii be collecting money for the japanese stuff any plan on visiting japan again?

Just collecting money in general, but yeah ;3 The plan right now is to visit Japan again next year when, fingers crossed, the borders will be open for tourists again and COVID has hopefully become a "normal" part of our life.

And all the best for you, hope you're doing okay

 

[Nii]

I'll tag you here @GrySun How did you feel about the Ousama Ranking now, as a whole? I've seen a lot of different reactions, from people saying it went extremely downhill to people who enjoyed it just as much as the first half. Personally I'm in the camp of Season 2 not being as amazing as Season 1, but I still enjoyed and loved a lot of it. Some parts were a bit mixed, but as for me I don't have a big problem with Miranjo being forgiven for example (which many seem to dislike).

 

[GrySun]

I'll tag you here @GrySun How did you feel about the Ousama Ranking now, as a whole? I've seen a lot of different reactions, from people saying it went extremely downhill to people who enjoyed it just as much as the first half. Personally I'm in the camp of Season 2 not being as amazing as Season 1, but I still enjoyed and loved a lot of it. Some parts were a bit mixed, but as for me I don't have a big problem with Miranjo being forgiven for example (which many seem to dislike).

I stopped at around start of the 2nd season, since I hate watching weekly with cliffhangers and eventually always end up letting episodes stack up, so I haven‘t seen it yet but will get back into it. The premise does seem like it isn‘t as great as the start, but I will be able to tell more when I‘ve seen it.

 

[Nii]

I stopped at around start of the 2nd season, since I hate watching weekly with cliffhangers and eventually always end up letting episodes stack up, so I haven‘t seen it yet but will get back into it. The premise does seem like it isn‘t as great as the start, but I will be able to tell more when I‘ve seen it.

Oh, didn't expect that... Sorry if I spoiled you somehow Funnily enough, for me it's kinda different, because I've mostly stopped watching anime or whatever else in batches, and rather enjoy watching a weekly episode. Both approaches have their ups and downs, I guess.

Anyway, looking forward to hear your thoughts :3

 

[Jammin]

@Nii, finally got around to watching the FGO movie. That really was an experience wasn't it?

 

[Nii]

@Nii, finally got around to watching the FGO movie. That really was an experience wasn't it?

You mean Solomon? Watched it not that long ago, too. Quite the spectacle, I enjoyed it :3

 

[Jammin]

Yeah, that's the one I meant. I enjoyed it too. Actually felt a little something when Jeanne showed up and the Mashu parts.

That having been said though, it really was the most Fate thing ever. If a person does not know FGO that movie would be like an abstract painting of a 4 dimensional paradox.

It also wasn't quite what I was expecting In the sense that, as much a spectacle piece as it was A-1 was more focused on the exposition and dialogue than they were the action. Which actually made it a really good adaptation of that singularity but also less fanservicy than I would have expected. It was more than 50% Tomokazu Sugita dialogue laying out the story. I thought he did a great job, as he usually does, but I was really expecting them to lean way into "servants doing cool things". Visually we didn't really get a lot of that. There was a few short snippets with Ushiwakamaru, Scathach, Alexander, and a few others but not nearly as much as I was expecting. I figured the last half of the movie would be just that. But they went a different way and I kind of respect that.

If I had a complaint honestly it would be that they didn't work Jalter into it. She's such a fan favorite that it feels weird that she's not there even though her standing next to Jeanne would be one of the top 3 "non-Fate fan viewer is utterly confused" moments. It also would probably be asking a lot of Maaya Sakamoto who voiced like half the servants in the movie as it is (Alexander, da Vinci, Jeanne)

 

[Nii]

Yeah, that's the one I meant. I enjoyed it too. Actually felt a little something when Jeanne showed up and the Mashu parts.

That having been said though, it really was the most Fate thing ever. If a person does not know FGO that movie would be like an abstract painting of a 4 dimensional paradox.

It also wasn't quite what I was expecting In the sense that, as much a spectacle piece as it was A-1 was more focused on the exposition and dialogue than they were the action. Which actually made it a really good adaptation of that singularity but also less fanservicy than I would have expected. It was more than 50% Tomokazu Sugita dialogue laying out the story. I thought he did a great job, as he usually does, but I was really expecting them to lean way into "servants doing cool things". Visually we didn't really get a lot of that. There was a few short snippets with Ushiwakamaru, Scathach, Alexander, and a few others but not nearly as much as I was expecting. I figured the last half of the movie would be just that. But they went a different way and I kind of respect that.

If I had a complaint honestly it would be that they didn't work Jalter into it. She's such a fan favorite that it feels weird that she's not there even though her standing next to Jeanne would be one of the top 3 "non-Fate fan viewer is utterly confused" moments. It also would probably be asking a lot of Maaya Sakamoto who voiced like half the servants in the movie as it is (Alexander, da Vinci, Jeanne)

I mean it's the adaptation of the finale of a game story. That's never something I would recommend to someone not playing said game. Though you probably can understand it fine if you've seen Camelot, Babylonia and most importantly First Order. Still far from ideal considering how all the other parts got skipped, but yeah. FGO in general isn't exactly "peak" Fate in my eyes, honestly speaking. It has some great moments, some very interesting characters, and some story beats can be really fun, cool and/or amazing, but for me it shows that Nasu isn't writing most of it lol. That and I don't think I'll ever be a big fan of phone games, there still are far too many limitations with that (though granted, FGO really pushed how much story you can get in a phone game).

But back to Solomon I agree with you. expected more action as well. That was a little disappointing, but as you said I think they did a good job with the character focus on Solomon and all that. Liked how they went and made it somewhat logical that Fujimaru could stand up to Goetia, his "GOEETIAAAA" scream gave me chills.
What I didn't like was the wasted opportunity of using THE famous track (Shikisai) during Jeanne's speech, that made it fall a bit flat for me. Like, what you have here in this trailer (+ The Essentials of Fate):



Aside from that, I mostly can't complain. It was kinda lacking a bit of an "epic" factor at times, but we both already said so. About Jeanne Alter, yeah including here would have been nice and funny XD But mb we'll get to see her eventually, I sure wouldn't mind a Shinjuku adaptation

 

[Jammin]

I wonder if they had some budgetary issues. Because I noticed a lot of the servants that had spoken parts shared a VA. It was most noticeable with Maaya Sakamoto and Miyuki Sawashiro. They really leaned a lot into the servants they voice. And a lot of others had no dialogue, which came across like they didn't want to pay to bring in the VAs to me.

Especially with like Kiyohime and Quetz. Even if it was just a fanservicy one liner. It felt off that they didn't say anything at all.

 

[GrySun]

Oh, didn't expect that... Sorry if I spoiled you somehow Funnily enough, for me it's kinda different, because I've mostly stopped watching anime or whatever else in batches, and rather enjoy watching a weekly episode. Both approaches have their ups and downs, I guess.

Anyway, looking forward to hear your thoughts :3

Well look forward no more, as I have finished it today!

Picking it up again reminded me of why I dropped watching it weekly. Watching only 1 episode and stopping is impossible. I only started watching it again a few days ago and had to watch multiple eps every time.

So, I will start by saying I really liked Ousama Ranking. While I prefer the first half with all the intrigue, the second half was certainly still great. I‘m impressed by the author, mainly the characters were all amazing and well crafted, among the best cast I‘ve ever seen.
I also liked the way the anime feels complete. Ofc there‘s the „sets off to another journey“ and some unresolved mysteries that likely get further explored in the light novel, but it‘s far better than what most anime adaptations end up doing, and feel like an unsatisfying conclusion invalidating your time watching it. I have that problem with many other animes nowadays.

I didn‘t dislike them forgiving Miranjo, I‘m surprised you said overall people dislike it. It fits the theme of the show and the characters. Daida proposing to her right away is rather spicy of a choice, a bit fast and sudden maybe.

I also wonder what‘s with the Ranking, now that Desha accepted rank 1 and went to the treasury what happens to him? Iirc they mentioned something that #1 Kings disappear or lose their mind? It‘s all very suspicious and likely messed up.

That said yeah while it is called Ousama Ranking the focus of the story quickly shifted to everything but that, which is a shame but understandable.

How would you say you liked it overall? Seen anything better in the last few years?

And most importantly, did you watch Stone Ocean yet? It‘s really good.

EDIT: Oh and I loved the 2nd OP of Ousama.

 

[Jammin]

@Nii why do people look at me strangely when I buy another of these immaculate Overlord hardcovers then walk out of the Barnes & Noble rubbing it on my cheek on the way back to my car? I'm not weird. They're weird! It's so laminated and smooth and smells like video game manuals used to in the PSone days. My actions are perfectly reasonable right?

Anyway, a new season of Overlord coming up. Hope your going to join us watching once again.

 

[Nii]

Well look forward no more, as I have finished it today!

Picking it up again reminded me of why I dropped watching it weekly. Watching only 1 episode and stopping is impossible. I only started watching it again a few days ago and had to watch multiple eps every time.

So, I will start by saying I really liked Ousama Ranking. While I prefer the first half with all the intrigue, the second half was certainly still great. I‘m impressed by the author, mainly the characters were all amazing and well crafted, among the best cast I‘ve ever seen.
I also liked the way the anime feels complete. Ofc there‘s the „sets off to another journey“ and some unresolved mysteries that likely get further explored in the light novel, but it‘s far better than what most anime adaptations end up doing, and feel like an unsatisfying conclusion invalidating your time watching it. I have that problem with many other animes nowadays.

I didn‘t dislike them forgiving Miranjo, I‘m surprised you said overall people dislike it. It fits the theme of the show and the characters. Daida proposing to her right away is rather spicy of a choice, a bit fast and sudden maybe.

I also wonder what‘s with the Ranking, now that Desha accepted rank 1 and went to the treasury what happens to him? Iirc they mentioned something that #1 Kings disappear or lose their mind? It‘s all very suspicious and likely messed up.

That said yeah while it is called Ousama Ranking the focus of the story quickly shifted to everything but that, which is a shame but understandable.

How would you say you liked it overall? Seen anything better in the last few years?

And most importantly, did you watch Stone Ocean yet? It‘s really good.

EDIT: Oh and I loved the 2nd OP of Ousama.

Happy to hear you had so much fun watching, Gry. I'm with you on that I thought the first half was better overall, but the second half still provided a lot of greatness The cast is amazing for sure, there's really no one where you feel they're boring or lame, at least for me.

About Miranjo, yeah there was a lot of discussion surrounding her. Also that the "evil" nation was shown or portrayed to be too/pure evil, which isn't fitting for the rather nuanced look at the other characters. About the people there just being evil, I kinda doubt that's all there is to it, and even if it is, I don't really mind. The story explained that this is basically how they adapted to life, not that they're doing evil stuff for the sake of it.

Personally I didn't mind forgiving Miranjo at all either, it fits with the theme of the story. But I'm with you that it might be a bit too sudden and/or spicy for Daida to confess to her lol. It's fine with me, but not sure that was necessary (this quickly at least).

Overall I'm with you, great show I had a really good time with. Not too many anime I liked more in the last few years, ended up giving this 9/10 xD
Think on the top of my head only Mushoku Tensei, Oregairu S3, Mob Psycho 100 II, and Made in Abyss are on a similar level for me. Prolly Kobayashi's Dragon Maid S2 and Today's Menu for the Emiya Family too, but those are purely comfy shows.

As for Ousama Ranking, kinda on the fence about picking up the manga, because I'm hoping for a Season 2 eventually, and as you said the story ended on a good and satisfying point. Main point of interest definitely would be the whole mystery about the actual ranking of kings, I imagine that's going to be the focus from here on.

And yeah I watched Stone Ocean in March I think, pretty good! Not a fan of only 12 episodes though, and the long wait for just another 12 episodes... Feels like the story was just getting into the groove, so was kinda disappointing that it just ends there. The Netflix jail is the most annoying part tbh, basically killed all the hype for another Jojo season. I'm looking forward to more, though.

@Nii why do people look at me strangely when I buy another of these immaculate Overlord hardcovers then walk out of the Barnes & Noble rubbing it on my cheek on the way back to my car? I'm not weird. They're weird! It's so laminated and smooth and smells like video game manuals used to in the PSone days. My actions are perfectly reasonable right?

Anyway, a new season of Overlord coming up. Hope your going to join us watching once again.

Haha I totally get it, the hardcover versions of Overlord are pretty cool! I would say as a fan your reaction is more than reasonable :3

And ofc I'm going to watch the new Overlord season, no question about that

 

[Kiki]

is jekyll and hyde any good, nii

 

[Nii]

is jekyll and hyde any good, nii

I'm not a fan, but they're alright I guess

 

[Kiki]

 

[Demonspeed]

Hi Nii. Here are my questions at last!(Must have forgotten some). Not all of them are HF related.

Spoiler

1. Why are Saber/Berserker/ FSN Gil such jobbers?
2. Why is Saber super strong only when she is on the antagonist side?
3. What exactly are these Alter forms?
4. Since in HF Sakura gets her happy ending what happens to her in the other Routes? Shirou and Rin don't learn about her secrets?
5. What the hell was I supposed to understand when Shirou and Kirei were fighting at the end of the third movie?
6. Can you explain in detail how Shirou's ability work? From what I understand he can replicate any NP since he replicated that Jewel Sword and Berserker's sword too. So could he replicate Caster's Anti Magic sword? What are his limits?
7. What happened to Shirou after the final fight. Seems like he was "stored" somewhere then came back fine and dated Sakura after all these years?
8. Has Gae Bolg ever hit anyeone?
9. And about power levels... There are so many broken powers. Rider can petrify you etc. How do they even resist that and why aren't they using these moves more decisively. I don't understand why the Saber class is so hyped.
10. Is Kiritsugu dead or something?
11. Why was Kirei allowed to act as mediator but still had a Servant?
12. Do you personally think that Shirou abandoning his "ideals" to save Sakura was a nice development/worth it? It felt so off to me. Maybe because I don't care much about Sakura.

 

[Nii]

Hi Nii. Here are my questions at last!(Must have forgotten some). Not all of them are HF related.

Spoiler

1. Why are Saber/Berserker/ FSN Gil such jobbers?
2. Why is Saber super strong only when she is on the antagonist side?
3. What exactly are these Alter forms?
4. Since in HF Sakura gets her happy ending what happens to her in the other Routes? Shirou and Rin don't learn about her secrets?
5. What the hell was I supposed to understand when Shirou and Kirei were fighting at the end of the third movie?
6. Can you explain in detail how Shirou's ability work? From what I understand he can replicate any NP since he replicated that Jewel Sword and Berserker's sword too. So could he replicate Caster's Anti Magic sword? What are his limits?
7. What happened to Shirou after the final fight. Seems like he was "stored" somewhere then came back fine and dated Sakura after all these years?
8. Has Gae Bolg ever hit anyeone?
9. And about power levels... There are so many broken powers. Rider can petrify you etc. How do they even resist that and why aren't they using these moves more decisively. I don't understand why the Saber class is so hyped.
10. Is Kiritsugu dead or something?
11. Why was Kirei allowed to act as mediator but still had a Servant?
12. Do you personally think that Shirou abandoning his "ideals" to save Sakura was a nice development/worth it? It felt so off to me. Maybe because I don't care much about Sakura.

Hey Demon, sorry for the late reply. I'll try to answer these questions relatively shortly, but if you want me to elaborate on something feel free to say so

1. I don't think they are, at least not in the VN. It's true Berserker loses most of the time (not always), but he comes off much more menacing and strong in the VN. Gil is relatively shallow in FSN though, yes. He's mostly that OP villain, but it's explained by the fact that he got corrupted when he basically was bathed in the grail mud at the end of the previous Grail War (he himself denies it in his arrogance, but it was more or less confirmed by the author that this is true, and it makes sense if you compare it to how he acts in Fate/Zero). Outside of Gilgamesh though, Saber and Berserker are handled a lot better in the VN imo.

2. Contract with Shirou, who basically has close to zero mana. Remember how she got a lot stronger when making a contract with Rin too in UBW, you just don't see it much bc it's mostly Shirou/Archer stuff after that. In HF she is directly connected to Sakura, who has a fake Holy Grail inside her, so this is when Saber can actually unleash her full power.

3. Originally it's when you get corrupted by the grail, or more precisely Angra Mainyu who is inside the Grail since the 3rd Holy Grail War. But in the end it's just an "Alternative" version where you see their other, more hidden side/aspect, which is usually the dark stuff because well, they're actual heroes for the most part xD Nothing really important, outside of FGO you basically won't see any Alters besides Saber.

4. Unclear, but this is better left to imagination anyway lol. I thiiiink that in an UBW booklet after the anime, Nasu hinted at the fact they eventually find out about the things Zouken and Shinji did.

5. You need to be a bit more clear on what exactly confused you In general I'm of the opinion that VN >>> movie when it comes to their fight, it wasn't handled too well. In a sense it's a clash of ideals, but also of acknowledgement that they're not so different in the end, each of them fights for what's important to them. For example, Kirei basically wants to validate his own birth and existence, that even flawed beings such as him are deserving of life. If you're curious, I can highly recommend this. Should clear everything up.



6. Basically as long as he can understand the concept of a weapon, he can replicate it. The potential of that is almost limitless, I think he can create Rule Breaker too. Important to notice that it's no small deal for his body though, remember how in Kaleid he said that with each strong weapon he creates he gets infiltrated by Heroic Spirit Emiya - in another word he's ruining his own body. So while the options are almost limitless, it's not something he can do for infinity or too often. Only known exception I can think of is Ea/Enuma Elish, he clearly states that it's impossible to understand the concept of that weapon.

7. His original body got destroyed. Illya saved him in the end with an incomplete version of the Third Magic (you know, the thing Zoken wanted to use to become immortal), which stopped his soul from dispersing. I think Rider picks up a tiny "container" inside which his soul is stored, because it was impossible for Illya to also restore his body. They then find a talented puppet creator (Touko Aozaki, the one from KnK) that makes a body for him. After inserting his soul into that it kind of becomes an actual body, so while he's severally weakened, he can still function as a normal human being.

8. That is a good question lol. It does hit Saber in FSN, just not fatally. Same for Archer when he uses Rho Aias, he cannot completely stop the attack, Lancer just decides to not finish him off after Archer got severely wounded. I know from at least one case by Cu where it actually hits and kills, but for the sake of avoiding spoilers I won't tell you where exactly

9. Magic resistance. Lots of Servants have the innate skill to block magic. It's much more clearly pointed out in the VN, where magic gets assigned ranks and you can look at the character sheets. Not completely sure about the exact rank, but I think Saber can automatically block every magic below the level of A (which is why Caster/Medea's magic can't hurt her at all). It's also why she can get rid of Medusa's Eyes of Petrification, even if it has some slight effect on her bc of its high level. If I'm not mistaken all Sabers have high magic resistance, it's one reason why they are called the strongest class. I'm honestly not sure how much that "strongest" still applies nowadays though, as I said before Fate makes it a point that almost every Servant can defeat another under the right circumstances.

10. Lol yes he died during their talk about how Shirou wants to become a hero in his stead. It's true that the anime never outright confirms this IIRC, but it's made clear in the VN.

11. Because he hid that fact. The Church is supposed to remain an outside force regulating the war, not directly participating in it. But it's Kirei we're talking about, so he didn't tell anyone about Gilgamesh and he also got his hands on Lancer shortly before the HGW started, to manipulate it to his liking.

12. Absolutely so, yes. But I also care about Sakura As I said in the Top 10 thread already, it's a different experience with the VN, where you directly go from route to route and see his development. Basically the first two routes hammer into you how absolutely vital his ideals are to Shirou, only to break him down completely in HF. It's one of my favourite moments when he decides to not kill Sakura with the knife, despite knowing how many she killed herself, and that she's a ticking time bomb. I understand that for anime-only people it's almost impossible to feel similar, though.

Not sure if that 1. at the end was supposed to be a 13th question, but I hope I could answer everything satisfyingly : D Was fun, helped me recall some things too.

 

[Demonspeed]

Hey Demon, sorry for the late reply. I'll try to answer these questions relatively shortly, but if you want me to elaborate on something feel free to say so

1. I don't think they are, at least not in the VN. It's true Berserker loses most of the time (not always), but he comes off much more menacing and strong in the VN. Gil is relatively shallow in FSN though, yes. He's mostly that OP villain, but it's explained by the fact that he got corrupted when he basically was bathed in the grail mud at the end of the previous Grail War (he himself denies it in his arrogance, but it was more or less confirmed by the author that this is true, and it makes sense if you compare it to how he acts in Fate/Zero). Outside of Gilgamesh though, Saber and Berserker are handled a lot better in the VN imo.


2. Contract with Shirou, who basically has close to zero mana. Remember how she got a lot stronger when making a contract with Rin too in UBW, you just don't see it much bc it's mostly Shirou/Archer stuff after that. In HF she is directly connected to Sakura, who has a fake Holy Grail inside her, so this is when Saber can actually unleash her full power.

You say this but then we see Saber Alter crushing Hercules. It was embarrassing... Or does Illya have a weak mana pool too? I guess there is something like a Mana Pool tier list?

Basically as long as he can understand the concept of a weapon, he can replicate it. The potential of that is almost limitless, I think he can create Rule Breaker too. Important to notice that it's no small deal for his body though, remember how in Kaleid he said that with each strong weapon he creates he gets infiltrated by Heroic Spirit Emiya - in another word he's ruining his own body. So while the options are almost limitless, it's not something he can do for infinity or too often. Only known exception I can think of is Ea/Enuma Elish, he clearly states that it's impossible to understand the concept of that weapon.

So even when he is using all these swords via UBW his body takes damage. Initially when he got Archer's arm in HF I thought there would be no issues since they are the same. It applies to Bone of my Sword Archer as well?

His original body got destroyed. Illya saved him in the end with an incomplete version of the Third Magic (you know, the thing Zoken wanted to use to become immortal), which stopped his soul from dispersing. I think Rider picks up a tiny "container" inside which his soul is stored, because it was impossible for Illya to also restore his body. They then find a talented puppet creator (Touko Aozaki, the one from KnK) that makes a body for him. After inserting his soul into that it kind of becomes an actual body, so while he's severally weakened, he can still function as a normal human being.

So he is an immortal living puppet at the end of HF? No flesh and blood etc?