Theory all for one is midoriyas father

[kkck]

Well, it's not really THAT juicy a nugget really. Many people had speculated on this (horrible) possibility and even those of us who dreaded it had to acknowledge there was nothing stopping this from being a thing. It just seems to make sense with the basic mechanics of OFA at least. I suppose the point there could have been that there was more to the quirk than has been said so far and the two quirks are more intimately connected than we were told. What has been described is not really that big a connection after all, OFA would simply be a happy accident of sorts. If there is more to this then the implication would be that OFA is not a happy accident... Which also wouldn't be that juicy a nugget, it's clearly the sort of thing a deranged sociopath like AFO would do.

 

[nectar]

I'm surprised I haven't seen people talking that much about the dfo bait in chapter 217.

Bakugo says "it makes you the same as him", then we see deku staring at his hand thinking "all for one's power hmm.."

Then in the last page there is a gap with "it makes you the same as him" repeated again.

I don't see the family connection. I see a quirk connection, a sort of irony to the fact that Deku is now using other's quirks to defeat a guy who steals other's quirks. And, that makes sense because they're quirks of two brothers. All For One (the guy) probably won't be the final villain anyway. Everything's leading to Shigaraki getting the quirk and becoming the new AFO. It's all leading to Stolen quirks VS Given quirks, not father VS son.

Horikoshi basically de-confirmed AFO by saying we'll see Deku's father one day. I don't think he's going out of his way to lie.

 

[Mallas26]

I don't see the family connection. I see a quirk connection, a sort of irony to the fact that Deku is now using other's quirks to defeat a guy who steals other's quirks. And, that makes sense because they're quirks of two brothers. All For One (the guy) probably won't be the final villain anyway. Everything's leading to Shigaraki getting the quirk and becoming the new AFO. It's all leading to Stolen quirks VS Given quirks, not father VS son.

Horikoshi basically de-confirmed AFO by saying we'll see Deku's father one day. I don't think he's going out of his way to lie.

Actually Hori said that Dekus father will be "revealed", not that we will see him. It can be translated many ways.

 

[Pr0teu5]

I have been thinking about this theory, and I don’t know if I agree, but I think there might be something going on here.

OFA told All might that he was looking for a successor because of the damage that he received during the fight that they had. However, he took an interest in Shigaraki when he was quite young. Long before the fight with All Might; why? The fact that he was a descendant of Nana Shimura couldn’t have been a coincidence. Additionally, taking in Tomura just to shake up All Might wouldn’t have made much sense as before their big fight AFO probably would’ve seen All Might as a flashy nuisance, and wouldn’t have much of a reason to hate him more than any other OFA successor.

As people have noted, All might has said that Inko resembles Nana, and the theory is that Deku might be the son of AFO and Inko. This seems to really fit with the possibility that AFO has a special interest in Nana Shimura’s family.

The theory that Deku is AFO’s son drove me to come up with this theory, which would include the theory that Deku is AFO’s son and maybe provide a reason for it. I Have broken it into several parts.

1) All for One and his Brother’s family have a history of birthing people with quirks that act on other quirks. I will call these quirks, “meta” quirks.

2) Both the quirk OFA and the quirk AFO are incomplete.

AFO is probably incomplete because All for One the person is still susceptible to the quirk singularity. I.E. he can handle mutiple quirks, but only so many, before he loses control.

OFA is incomplete because despite the fact that it has the ability to pass down the quirks of the successor. It needed some kind of Catalyst in order to allow a successor to access those quirks. In addition, it would probably require that the successor is cable or using multiple quirks without going crazy.

2 b)

Both AFO and his younger brother would put their hopes in their descendants to be born with a “meta quirk” that allowed for the possession and use of an unlimited number of quirks with no side affects.

3)

AFO would have an interest in descendants of himself and his little brother in the hopes that they would be born with a singularity defying quirk that he could steal.

AFO’s brother would likely put in place the tradition of passing the OFA onto a member of his family whenever possible, in the hopes that one day the quirk would be complete. Though the quirk has found it’s way to non family members, their may be a tradition of successors finding members of the younger brother’s family and passing OFA on to them.

4)

Nana Shimura is a descendant of the younger brother and did not have a “meta quirk”

5)

AFO recognized his brother’s descendant and took an interest in Nana Shimura’s family.

Tomura had a “meta quirk.” Even if this was not the quirk that AFO was looking for, it was enough to get AFO’s attention and make him raise Tomura. Decay was a secret gift from Ujiko or AFO and not Shigaraki’s original quirk.

6)

Inko Midoriya is another descendant of AFO’s brother.

6 b)

AFO found out about Inko’s lineage and had Izuku with her in the hopes that he would find the quirk that he was looking for.

6 c)

Izuku was born with the “meta” quirk that allows him to posses an unlimited number of quirks. This is what AFO wanted. This is also that quirk that would complete OFA.

6 d)

Something, perhaps a lie from Ujiko stopped AFO from stealing Deku’s quirk. However, even with the quirk in his possession no one around Deku would realize that he had a quirk. Like the younger brother’s quirk, you have to hold another quirk along with this one for it to become useful.

6 e)

By chance, or possibly by design, Deku inherits OFA and it combines with his quirk. OFA is now complete and so Deku and all users after him will have access to all the quirks of the previous users.

I know that this theory is very complex, and therefore likely wrong, but it is one of the ways to integrate all of the weird coincidences in the story so far.

 

[kkck]

To me its weird that AFO would care about the singularity. What does it have to do with him? Sure, he takes in multiple quirks but as far as we can tell they don't really fuse with each other, he can simply use them simultaneously at best. And he can use them quite well at a minimum. Now, if the quirks could fuse within AFO it'd be different but that seems like something only OFA can do.

I would think it makes more sense for AFO to be concerned about the singularity because it increases the chances of quirks stronger than his own to appear. Or perhaps because he plans to live forever and the imminent doom this implies for humanity is a greater problem for him than for anyone else.

Now that I wrote it, it kinda hit me that the key here might be the fusing aspect of quirks and it being something only OFA can do. Also interesting, OFA is perhaps the most interesting case of the singularity around. It's not a stretch that within several more generations it will have so much power that it would be simply impossible for a human to hold the power at all. As in, 0.1% of the quirk being beyond human limits....

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

I have been thinking about this theory, and I don’t know if I agree, but I think there might be something going on here.

OFA told All might that he was looking for a successor because of the damage that he received during the fight that they had. However, he took an interest in Shigaraki when he was quite young. Long before the fight with All Might; why? The fact that he was a descendant of Nana Shimura couldn’t have been a coincidence. Additionally, taking in Tomura just to shake up All Might wouldn’t have made much sense as before their big fight AFO probably would’ve seen All Might as a flashy nuisance, and wouldn’t have much of a reason to hate him more than any other OFA successor.

As people have noted, All might has said that Inko resembles Nana, and the theory is that Deku might be the son of AFO and Inko.

I'm glad someone mentioned this because it's weird that AFO wanted a successor way before he was injured by All Might and AFO probably didn’t All Might to know the real reason he wanted a successor or something like that. All Might didn't say Inko looks like Nana he just said their hairstyles look the same and was referring to Inko's motherly personality since Nana was like a mother to All Might.

 

[Pr0teu5]

To me its weird that AFO would care about the singularity. What does it have to do with him? Sure, he takes in multiple quirks but as far as we can tell they don't really fuse with each other, he can simply use them simultaneously at best. And he can use them quite well at a minimum. Now, if the quirks could fuse within AFO it'd be different but that seems like something only OFA can do.


Now that I wrote it, it kinda hit me that the key here might be the fusing aspect of quirks and it being something only OFA can do. Also interesting, OFA is perhaps the most interesting case of the singularity around. It's not a stretch that within several more generations it will have so much power that it would be simply impossible for a human to hold the power at all. As in, 0.1% of the quirk being beyond human limits....

I get what you’re saying. However, the one thing that gives be pause with your interpretation of fusing vs simply holding multiple quirks, is page 7 of the manga stream version of 246.

Ujiko tells Shigaraki that, “If people’s bodies can’t adapt to their quirks they can’t keep living.” And “As someone who wields multiple quirks AFO took this very seriously.”

For me at least, this implies that AFO was worried about the quirk singularity because it might affect him specifically. We don’t know how the quirk singularity works exactly, but AFO seems to be afraid that he might die if his quirk went singular.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. OFA is a singular quirk that is already on the borderline of human usability.

I'm glad someone mentioned this because it's weird that AFO wanted a successor way before he was injured by All Might and AFO probably didn’t All Might to know the actually reason he wanted a successor or something like that. All Might didn't say Inko looks like Nana he just said their hairstyles look the same and was referring to Inko's motherly personality since Nana was like a mother to All Might.

The more I think about it the stranger and stranger the relationship between OFA and Shigaraki is.

OFA has always been incredibly patient with Shigaraki. Indulging his requests for Nomu, urging him to fail as much as needed to grow, etc.

We’re talking about the world’s most dangerous villian, a cold blooded murderer behaving with this much compassion and understanding. To me this means that OFA absolutely needs Shogaraki for some reason.

Just think of all the capable villains that would want the title OFA. Especially when that title comes with Nomu, and Gigantomachia. Not to mention the fact that the successor title presumably comes with the AFO quirk. Arguably the most powerful quirk in the history of the world, that has the added bonus of practical immortality.

Not once does AFO even mention the possibility that someone other than Shigaraki could be the successor, which makes me think that for some reason AFO believes that it must be him.

Also, you may be right about the Inko Midoriya thing. All Might did say that he thought of Nana as a mother, which makes your interpretation plausible. However, he did so in Vigilantes and I hadn’t read up to that chapter until last night, hahaha.

 

[kkck]

I get what you’re saying. However, the one thing that gives be pause with your interpretation of fusing vs simply holding multiple quirks, is page 7 of the manga stream version of 246.

Ujiko tells Shigaraki that, “If people’s bodies can’t adapt to their quirks they can’t keep living.” And “As someone who wields multiple quirks AFO took this very seriously.”

For me at least, this implies that AFO was worried about the quirk singularity because it might affect him specifically. We don’t know how the quirk singularity works exactly, but AFO seems to be afraid that he might die if his quirk went singular.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. OFA is a singular quirk that is already on the borderline of human usability.

Even if that is the correct interpretation, we don't know why or how this would affect him. And based on what the doctor has explained I don't think there is a chance of his quirk "going singular". How the manga has framed this is that quirks will become too powerful to handle. So in that sense its a future event which doesn't exactly concern the vast majority of current quirks. Basically, quirks "going singular" isn't a thing. The problem is in the future when quirks become way to powerful for their weak vessels.

I could see AFO, being somehow kinda immortal, being concerned that quirks will become too powerful for even him to manage. As in, quirks around are too unmanageable for even him to handle. But even then they would hardly pose a threat to him as he could simply not take them to begin with. Alternatively, he could be worried about the competition because as of now we have yet to see a single quirk which has a chance of matching the sheer power AFO and OFA have.

 

[Pr0teu5]

Even if that is the correct interpretation, we don't know why or how this would affect him. And based on what the doctor has explained I don't think there is a chance of his quirk "going singular". How the manga has framed this is that quirks will become too powerful to handle. So in that sense its a future event which doesn't exactly concern the vast majority of current quirks. Basically, quirks "going singular" isn't a thing. The problem is in the future when quirks become way to powerful for their weak vessels.

I could see AFO, being somehow kinda immortal, being concerned that quirks will become too powerful for even him to manage. As in, quirks around are too unmanageable for even him to handle. But even then they would hardly pose a threat to him as he could simply not take them to begin with. Alternatively, he could be worried about the competition because as of now we have yet to see a single quirk which has a chance of matching the sheer power AFO and OFA have.

Quirks going singular would only be a thing for AFO and OFA specifically as those two quirks are the only ones we know of that change over time.

Of course at their beginning AFO and OFA were perfectly capable of being handled. However, as both integrate more quirks and more power into themselves they presumably become more difficult to control. Hence, going singular. like you were saying before, OFA with 9 successors is barely controllable, with 20 it might not be. Similarly AFO with 20 quirks or so might be controllable, 50 or 100 may not be. The point here isn’t the specific number, just the fact that these two quirks in particular will pass a point where they can’t be controlled.

Your second point is basically in agreement with what I’m saying. Assuming there is some limit to the overall amount of power/complexity that AFO can manage, as quirks become more powerful and complex, stealing even a couple of those could put him over his limit. Whereas now he can steal countless numbers, as quirks are so weak.

 

[kkck]

Quirks going singular would only be a thing for AFO and OFA specifically as those two quirks are the only ones we know of that change over time.

Of course at their beginning AFO and OFA were perfectly capable of being handled. However, as both integrate more quirks and more power into themselves they presumably become more difficult to control. Hence, going singular. like you were saying before, OFA with 9 successors is barely controllable, with 20 it might not be. Similarly AFO with 20 quirks or so might be controllable, 50 or 100 may not be. The point here isn’t the specific number, just the fact that these two quirks in particular will pass a point where they can’t be controlled.

Your second point is basically in agreement with what I’m saying. Assuming there is some limit to the overall amount of power/complexity that AFO can manage, as quirks become more powerful and complex, stealing even a couple of those could put him over his limit. Whereas now he can steal countless numbers, as quirks are so weak.

What the doctor said regarding the singularity is that as a result of quirks merging and combining with each other they would eventually become more powerful, more ambiguous and ultimately more and even too difficult to control for a human body. By this definition there is no such thing as a quirk "going singular". By that framing either a quirk is too powerful for the human body to handle or it isn't.

The second point is basically an scenario I could see but the manga isn't exactly clear on this. I also wrote about how the singularity specifically does not affect AFO directly as he can simply not take or give away a quirk that is too powerful for him to handle. And even then, it is kinda weird that he'd run into trouble like this. He can simply take quirks or mutations which strengthen his body and allow him to handle more powerful quirks after all.

 

[Pr0teu5]

What the doctor said regarding the singularity is that as a result of quirks merging and combining with each other they would eventually become more powerful, more ambiguous and ultimately more and even too difficult to control for a human body. By this definition there is no such thing as a quirk "going singular". By that framing either a quirk is too powerful for the human body to handle or it isn't.

I don’t agree. AFO and OFA are quirks gather more quirks, and thus has the potential to become singular quirks as time goes on and they become more powerful.

Edit Note, I am not saying that quirks can become singular in general; only that AFO and OFA can as these two quirks are very special cases.

This is directly stated in chapter 193 when AFO’s brother is talking to Deku in the Dream.

“ I wanted to show you a little more, but. It seems like all you can manage is about 20% right now.
We’ve long since past the point of singularity, but don’t worry.”

This seems to me to clearly stating that at some point OFA was at a point where it was easily manageable by a person and had not passed the point of singularity, to one that is unmanageable and had passed the point of singularity.

 

[kkck]

I don’t agree. AFO and OFA are quirks gather more quirks, and thus has the potential to become singular quirks as time goes on and they become more powerful.

Edit Note, I am not saying that quirks can become singular in general; only that AFO and OFA can as these two quirks are very special cases.

This is directly stated in chapter 193 when AFO’s brother is talking to Deku in the Dream.

“ I wanted to show you a little more, but. It seems like all you can manage is about 20% right now.
We’ve long since past the point of singularity, but don’t worry.”

This seems to me to clearly stating that at some point OFA was at a point where it was easily manageable by a person and had not passed the point of singularity, to one that is unmanageable and had passed the point of singularity.

I'd wonder if he meant the same though (I had forgotten the brother said that). As far as the story has told us the doctor is the one that came up with the singularity concept. So.... wouldn't the brother have died well before the doctor was even born? And even then, if the concept applied to OFA... it only means deku has more power than he could possibly manage and there is a very real chance the quirk could straight up kill him. And others of course.

 

[Alilbitontheweirdside]

Weird side note here, but I started thinking about this yesterday and it made sense to me. I'll take no offense if anyone disagrees with me. There's this whole talk within the BNHA community of a traitor within class 1-A, someone who's feeding AFO and his minions information. My thinking is that rather than someone doing this willingly, there may be a connection between Midoriya and AFO, similar to the force if you believe the Star Wars connection and the theory that Midoriya is AFO'S son. What made me think of this is the ending of the Empire Strikes Back as well as return of the jedi, where darth Vader can communicate and connect with Luke by way of the force (think back to the ending of the Empire Strikes). That's how AFO is able to know what is going on at UA as well as with All Might. Just a wil

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

 

[Aldrich]

Yeah that settles it, it wouldn't make any sense to say that if Deku's father was a random shmuck with a regular office job, his father is All For One I'm pretty much sure of it now.

 

[kkck]

I am not sure if the bit about toga not turning invisible under those circumstances is a comment on hagakure's or toga's ability... The possibilities I see are these:

When toga uses ochako's quirk she had transformed into ochako... But when toga transforms we see a substance covering her body. So perhaps this means that if she got hagakure's blood the substance covering toga's body would be invisible but not the actual toga?

Alternatively.... it could mean toga can't copy mutations, only quirks.... In which case hagakure would have an actual quirk which she would be currently concealing.

Am I missing anything here?

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

I am not sure if the bit about toga not turning invisible under those circumstances is a comment on hagakure's or toga's ability... The possibilities I see are these:

When toga uses ochako's quirk she had transformed into ochako... But when toga transforms we see a substance covering her body. So perhaps this means that if she got hagakure's blood the substance covering toga's body would be invisible but not the actual toga?

Alternatively.... it could mean toga can't copy mutations, only quirks.... In which case hagakure would have an actual quirk which she would be currently concealing.

Am I missing anything here?

 

[Pr0teu5]

I'd wonder if he meant the same though (I had forgotten the brother said that). As far as the story has told us the doctor is the one that came up with the singularity concept. So.... wouldn't the brother have died well before the doctor was even born? And even then, if the concept applied to OFA... it only means deku has more power than he could possibly manage and there is a very real chance the quirk could straight up kill him. And others of course.

Yeah, we don’t really know he meant the same thing. I wish he had the original Japanese to see if they use the same word, but singularity is such a specific word and concept it would be weird if they were supposed to mean different things.

As far as the brother knowing about the singularity concept I see two options.

The first is that All for One and his brother really wouldn’t be all that old. We know that All for One is at least 100, and actually he’s probably not that much older than that. We know that right now quirks are in the 5th or 6th generation. If a generation is about 20 years this would put OFA at 100-120.

This is old, but it is not really that old. The Doctor could be in his 70’s or 80’s now, have come up with the theory in his 20’s and still have told AFO’s brother when AFO’s brother was in his 40’s or 50’s. It all just depends on how young you think the brother died.

The other option is since the younger brother lives in AFO he could have learned about it after he died.

I think my understanding of the quirk singularity is a bit different than yours. Of course eventually OFA will have stockpiled so much power that no human could withstand it, it would be singular in that regard.

However, what has been stated is quirks will combine and become deeper and more complex until they are impossible to control. This seems like a mental thing, not a physical one.

Deku could barely keep up with the mental strain of controlling air force and black whip. Now he’s expected to control 6 quirks. The high end Nomu only has 6 and he lost most of his rationality like any other Nomu.

I think that the fact that Deku has the ability to control 6 quirks naturally without any modification and without losing rationality is evidence that he is AFO’s son.

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

I'd wonder if he meant the same though (I had forgotten the brother said that). As far as the story has told us the doctor is the one that came up with the singularity concept. So.... wouldn't the brother have died well before the doctor was even born? And even then, if the concept applied to OFA... it only means deku has more power than he could possibly manage and there is a very real chance the quirk could straight up kill him. And others of course.

Destro's book mentioned the quirk singularity even though the words quirk singularity weren't mentioned.

 

[Mallas26]

The further story goes without even noticing Dekus father(its beem 261 chapter already),the more i think that there is smth very very fishy about him
We got introduction of Toya. Photo and short story,meanwhile nothing about Hisashi. Dont you think its strange?