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kkck

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Why do I've the impression of hearing a manipulative extreme right wing zionist polititian ?
You must have a different idea of what a manipulative extreme right wing zionist politician than me because in the next sentence I frame what israel is doing as displacement/killing and genocidal.
 

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You must have a different idea of what a manipulative extreme right wing zionist politician than me because in the next sentence I frame what israel is doing as displacement/killing and genocidal.
You claimed that Israel :
- follows the law
- isn't terrorising civilians.
- is a legitimate state
- has the right to exist.
etc, etc, etc
 

kkck

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You claimed that Israel :
- follows the law
- isn't terrorising civilians.
- is a legitimate state
- has the right to exist.
etc, etc, etc
I am compelled to point out that that is not a response to anything I have said. If terrorism means whatever you want then sure, israel will be whatever you want. But in the real world what israel does to palestinians does not quite fit into the definition of terrorism.

And point for point:

- follows the law: I am not sure of what this bit refers to. What israel does is universally considered to be against international law.
- isn't terrorising civilians: I mean, they are but terrorism in this context is something else.
- is a legitimate state: I don't think I have used those words. What I have said is that israel is a real country that has built relations with other countries and has a real army and there's a zero chance of it going anywhere. I have also said in this thread that it's creation is one of the worst mistakes in the 20th century and this is a shitshow that will continue to distabilize the world.
- has the right to exist. I don't think I have specifically said. At least my intention when framing this was more on the "this isn't optional at this point". Barring iran or someone nuking the place there's zero chance of israel going anywhere.
 

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Sources like reuters, The guardian, Times of Israel, CNN, or other zionist propagandists ?
Whatever you've got.


The same goes for Hamas, you've to prove that they're murderers and rapists. Which you didn't.
Oh, so you did know how the burden of proof works. You just don't care because you'd rather post terrorist apologia unchecked.

You're right though. I made a claim, so I gotta back it up. Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel


“Based on the first-hand accounts of released hostages, the mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity and has reasonable grounds to believe that this violence may be ongoing,” the report said.

M3J keeps saying Israeli hostages are treated well and that they all speak well of Hamas. First-hand accounts say otherwise. And before you claim that the Guardian is a biased, Zioinist sympathizing site:


The Guardian is getting it's information directly from the UN, and the UN is pointing out that BOTH SIDES are raping their hostages. And the Guardian reported on it rather than hiding it to make Israel look good.

And now, you and M3J can meet your burdens.

You prove I'm a rapist and a murderer. And he can prove that Hamas doesn't rape hostages.

Good luck!
 
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M3J

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To be clear: are you claiming you have a source that proves Hamas hasn't been raping or killing any of their hostages?
Israeli hostages.

If Hamas confess to raping and murdering, then I would believe Hamas. If they said they did not, then I would not believe them, as it could be a lie to not look the bad guys.

So... your stance would be that tik tok is not being used to spy or influence the US population? I don't doubt the US has its own stuff going on but that being the case shouldn't be a reason for tik tok to not be regarded as a security threat. Another extra consideration here is that china does ban foreign social networks... At this point you'd think it's reasonable that reciprocity applies. So the situation the US is in right is that chinese social media can be present in western markets but western social media can't be present in chinese markets. There's zero reasons for the US to not ban tik tok.

I mean, you could "reverse" that BUT then you'd have to contend with how stupid that is. Considering the girl is question is french-israelite, was in fact kidnapped by hamas and the one video where she ever says hamas treated her well was under while still captive by hamas. Sane people don't usually have nice things to say about their kidnappers and reality here is that she in fact does not have anything nice to say about them. Hamas deserves zero praise over not raping someone. Them not raping someone isn't a show of moral fiber. In any other situation if someone says "welp, at least they didn't rape x person" you still immediately draw the conclusion that they are somewhere in the spectrum of criminal at least.
I never said that though? But TikTok is more impartial than Twitter and Meta, where right wing bullshit is spread more easily (I think it contributed to Trump's win). TikTok does seem to be a bit more partial towards right wing bs, but it won't take severe action against left wing or anti-genocidal views the way the other social media platforms do. The "reciprocity" sounds like something 2 5-year-old kids would do, that's stupid. If USA wants to claim it's not fascist and that it's better than Russia or China, why is it talking about banning a social media app like China has banned some apps?

There is zero reason to ban TikTok. For USA, the main reasons are because they don't have any control over what's shared, so they can't brainwash or keep citizens brainwashed. What's also stopping most companies that have data from selling it to China anyway?


It's also as stupid as claiming as if Israel didn't convince her or force her to stop saying nice things about Hamas, or that she didn't do an 180 after seeing what she could gain from it. I mean, she was at the Oscars few days ago! If she really went through hell, it is a bit weird to bounce back so quickly.

So what do you think about Israel, who has actually proven to be raping, murdering, and torturing their prisoners regardless of age? Are they as bad as Hamas kidnapping but not raping or killing? Or is it better because they're not Hamas?

But also, the whole thing is about the public image of Hamas. They have this negative image as horrible terrorists but the worst thing they've done, with proof, is kidnap Israelis. If they killed tons of people at the festival too though, then yeah, nasty terrorists. But if they are as bad as people like to claim, why protect and take care of their hostages? Why not be okay with mistreating them? As long as they're alive, they're still useful.


I mean, I don't object to the idea that israel put bombing hamas at a higher priority than bombing hamas.

Israel is not a terrorist organization/country. A basic definition of terrorism is " the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. ". That's simply not what israel is doing. They are displacing/killing palestinians, the politics and optics of it be damned. Throw in the unwillingness of other countries to accept palestinian refugees and this is just about genocidal (of course if they did israel would have probably conquered the whole area decades ago). The world hasn't given a shit about palestinians for decades and now the two sides here are israel, a country that has built real relations with every country that would have them and hamas, which is not an organization with meaningful ties to the world, does not have a plan and most of the world can't stomach over the terrorism stuff.
What?

Israel is a terrorist country because they're using unlawful violence and intimidation for political reasons. The West and Israel also had power and ability to use propaganda to paint Israel in good light long before Hamas ever existed, and Hamas/ Palestinians did not and does not have that kind of power to fool the world into thinking they're good the way Israel did. Israel has also been tricking people into thinking Hamas are terrorists and do not openly mention the fact that Hamas was created in response to Israeli's terrorism against Palestinians.

I've watched American shows like NCIS and Hollywood movies, and they all paint Israel/Mossad as good people while Hamas are just killing machines never acknowledged as response to Israel's violence. Hollywood or western media does not bring up the Nakba either.

Israel has also lost relations with some countries due to their continuous committing of genocide, even when officially told to stop.
 

kkck

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The bit with eyewitness accounts about the music festival attack has been largely overlooked in the internet unfortunately. I suppose more extreme views took over the screen space along with this being a few months back. but yeah, People at the music festival are pretty explicit about the sheer violence hamas unleashed there. There were people from my country at the festival, they came back, they talked to local news station about the events in my language. These versions were consistent with what people in other countries talked about and the videos we saw. It's not a cnn or fox or zionist media thing.

Now, as far as deaths went this went farther than even merely folk at the music festival. A lot of people from a lot of countries died during the attack along with however many hostages. Googling quickly, germany said there were at least 8 germans who were taken hostage (haven't googled how many germans died though). Who can reasonably expect germany or any country whose citizens were brutalized by hamas to take the side of hamas, with whom most countries do not have any relations, in this conflict? That's doesn't make any sense whatsoever. No government can take openly take the side of a group that has kidnapped it's citizens as bargaining chips.
 

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“Based on the first-hand accounts of released hostages, the mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity and has reasonable grounds to believe that this violence may be ongoing,” the report said.
Sorry but western media or soure just claiming there is clear evidence throught undirect source is both BS and irrelevant. Western media is pretty well known for its bias and slander, trying to manipulate things.
So, try better and by that I mean show me footage like IDF crimes are explicitely exposed.

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Now, as far as deaths went this went farther than even merely folk at the music festival. A lot of people from a lot of countries died during the attack along with however many hostages. Googling quickly, germany said there were at least 8 germans who were taken hostage (haven't googled how many germans died though). Who can reasonably expect germany or any country whose citizens were brutalized by hamas to take the side of hamas, with whom most countries do not have any relations, in this conflict? That's doesn't make any sense whatsoever. No government can take openly take the side of a group that has kidnapped it's citizens as bargaining chips.
Thanks to IOF random blasts irrespective of friend and foe.
 

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Israeli hostages.

If Hamas confess to raping and murdering, then I would believe Hamas. If they said they did not, then I would not believe them, as it could be a lie to not look the bad guys.
Cool.

So now, what we have is:

Israeli hostages saying they were treated well
Israeli hostages saying they were not

Now, who do we believe? And why?

EDIT: Keep in mind: I never said that Israelis aren't raping Palestinian hostages. I'm just responding to your claims that Hamas doesn't rape Israeli hostages.

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Sorry but western media or soure just claiming there is clear evidence throught undirect source is both BS and irrelevant. Western media is pretty well known for its bias and slander, trying to manipulate things.
So, try better and by that I mean show me footage like IDF crimes are explicitely exposed.
Nope, the source is not the western media. The source is the UN. The Guardian isn't doing the research, they're citing reports done by the UN, so it's the UN that you'll have to accuse of being a Zionist source.
 
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kkck

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I never said that though? But TikTok is more impartial than Twitter and Meta, where right wing bullshit is spread more easily (I think it contributed to Trump's win). TikTok does seem to be a bit more partial towards right wing bs, but it won't take severe action against left wing or anti-genocidal views the way the other social media platforms do. The "reciprocity" sounds like something 2 5-year-old kids would do, that's stupid. If USA wants to claim it's not fascist and that it's better than Russia or China, why is it talking about banning a social media app like China has banned some apps?

There is zero reason to ban TikTok. For USA, the main reasons are because they don't have any control over what's shared, so they can't brainwash or keep citizens brainwashed. What's also stopping most companies that have data from selling it to China anyway?


It's also as stupid as claiming as if Israel didn't convince her or force her to stop saying nice things about Hamas, or that she didn't do an 180 after seeing what she could gain from it. I mean, she was at the Oscars few days ago! If she really went through hell, it is a bit weird to bounce back so quickly.

So what do you think about Israel, who has actually proven to be raping, murdering, and torturing their prisoners regardless of age? Are they as bad as Hamas kidnapping but not raping or killing? Or is it better because they're not Hamas?

But also, the whole thing is about the public image of Hamas. They have this negative image as horrible terrorists but the worst thing they've done, with proof, is kidnap Israelis. If they killed tons of people at the festival too though, then yeah, nasty terrorists. But if they are as bad as people like to claim, why protect and take care of their hostages? Why not be okay with mistreating them? As long as they're alive, they're still useful.




What?

Israel is a terrorist country because they're using unlawful violence and intimidation for political reasons. The West and Israel also had power and ability to use propaganda to paint Israel in good light long before Hamas ever existed, and Hamas/ Palestinians did not and does not have that kind of power to fool the world into thinking they're good the way Israel did. Israel has also been tricking people into thinking Hamas are terrorists and do not openly mention the fact that Hamas was created in response to Israeli's terrorism against Palestinians.

I've watched American shows like NCIS and Hollywood movies, and they all paint Israel/Mossad as good people while Hamas are just killing machines never acknowledged as response to Israel's violence. Hollywood or western media does not bring up the Nakba either.

Israel has also lost relations with some countries due to their continuous committing of genocide, even when officially told to stop.
The tik tok stuff has nothing to do with silly left-right US debates. The issue is whether the CCP is or not using it to spy on the US. Twitter and facebook are simply not doing anything like that like. If they were it'd be treason as far as I can tell.

"reciprocity" is the basic principle of international relations between countries lol. It's not something I randomly made up, it's something almost every country at a minimum pretends to have going on.

I mean, presented a specific definition of what terrorism is (it can also vary a bit depending on the country and institution) and explained why israel doesn't fit into it. I even mentioned what they do do which is worse than terrorism. You didn't even present a definition of terrorism which israel does fit, it's just your random nonsense. If you want to die on that hill then all I can say is godspeed ahead.

Hmmm, ok? i don't know how to respond to that other than I couldn't possibly care less of which tv shows do or do not feed your views on the geopolitics of this. And sure, some countries do not have relations with israel. Doesn't have that much bearing on anything I have said though.
 

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Israeli hostages saying they were treated well
Israeli hostages saying they were not
Second fact is outhright wrong, a western media (basically AIPAC's slave) saying that an unknown individual from UN claiming that some hostage said he wasn't treated well is BS and irrelevant. Try better.
First fact was explicit as shown via directly interviewing few hostages who have all unanimously admitted Hamas's good and fair treatment to them.
 

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Second fact is worng, a western media (basically AIPAC's slave) saying that an unknown individual from UN claiming that some hostage said he wasn't treated well is BS and irrelevant. Try better.
First fact was explicit as shown via directly interviewing few hostages who have all unanimously admitted Hamas's good and fair treatment to them.
So when the UN states that Israel is raping Palestinian hostages, that's a lie, right?
 

hblock

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So when the UN states that Israel is raping Palestinian hostages, that's a lie, right?
It's not even the UN, it's the Guradian (AIPAC's slave) stating that an unkown individual from the UN claiming such a thing.
Also, let's not kid ourselves, the UN is nothing more than the US slave (which in turn is AIPAC's slave).

EDIT: still waiting for the footage of Hamas attrocities via the abomination's surveilliance cam's.
 

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It's not even the UN, it's the Guradian stating that an unkown individual from the UN claiming such a thing.
Also, let's not kid ourselves, the UN is nothing more than the US slave (which in turn is AIPAC's slave).
So when an unknown individual from the UN claimed that Palestinian hostages are raped by Israelis, they lied?
 

hblock

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So when an unknown individual from the UN claimed that Palestinian hostages are raped by Israelis, they lied?
Yes
Where's the proof ? just empty claim.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Not only that, such individuals should be put to jail for slander.
 

ninjabot

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Yes
Where's the proof ? just empty claim.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Not only that, such individuals should be put to jail for slander.
Welp. Okay then, lol.
 

kkck

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I mean, I can understand being skeptical of a UN report. As The world has not given a shit about palestine for decades. But you can just go to youtube and see what survivors and released hostages say of the ordeal.
 

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I mean, I can understand being skeptical of a UN report. As The world has not given a shit about palestine for decades. But you can just go to youtube and see what survivors and released hostages say of the ordeal.
Not giving a shit, and being Zionists are two different things though, right?

My intention is to respond with sources that either:

-Have little to no motivation for lying
-Are also willing to speak of Israel in a bad light
-Have come from reputable news sites

It makes it harder to dismiss it as Zionist propaganda or lies thanks to this. Or at the very least, makes them look like Qanon-level conspiracy theorists for disagreeing.

hblock LITERALLY said that a UN report that agreed with him about what was happening to Palestinians was a lie. He literally just turned a fact that he agreed with into a lie because he NEEDS our sources to not be trustworthy so that he has justification to keep disbelieving.

And you're right, I could do that. And guess what was one of the first vids I saw when I did?

The Guardian. Agreeing with he and M3J again. Making Hamas look like good guys for not torturing their hostages. That's why I tried so hard to get hblock to admit that the UN and The Guardian posts truthful claims to make it harder for them to play ignorant.

Though I'd rather post information from official sources that have to vet their information rather than just a vid from someone who could or could not be lying. I don't like the idea of just taking anyone at all at their word. It's harder to be sure that they're being truthful.

But fine. I'll play their game.
 
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kkck

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Not giving a shit, and being Zionists are two different things though, right?

My intention is to respond with sources that either:

-Have little to no motivation for lying
-Are also willing to speak of Israel in a bad light
-Have come from reputable news sites

It makes it harder to dismiss it as Zionist propaganda or lies thanks to this. Or at the very least, makes them look like Qanon-level conspiracy theorists for disagreeing.

hblock LITERALLY said that a UN report that agreed with him about what was happening to Palestinians was a lie. He literally just turned a fact that he agreed with into a lie because he NEEDS our sources to not be trustworthy so that he has justification to keep disbelieving.

And you're right, I could do that. And guess what was one of the first vids I saw when I did?

The Guardian. Agreeing with he and M3J again. Making Hamas look like good guys for not torturing their hostages. That's why I tried so hard to get hblock to admit that the UN and The Guardian posts truthful claims to make it harder for them to play ignorant.

Though I'd rather post information from official sources that have to vet their information rather than just a vid from someone who could or could not be lying. I don't like the idea of just taking anyone at all at their word. It's harder to be sure that they're being truthful.

But fine. I'll play their game.
I suppose it depends on how you search for it. When I search this is my first result:
 

hblock

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Wonder why you don't get this kind of interviews as the first result :

That was in israel's mainstream media btw (chanel 12).

There's a reason why they prohibited other hostages from speaking until filtering the appropriate persons and telling them exactly what they've to say.

Again, still wating for the abomination's suverilliance cameras to show us the so called attrocities.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

My intention is to respond with sources that either:

-Have little to no motivation for lying
-Are also willing to speak of Israel in a bad light
-Have come from reputable news sites
Lol.
 

ninjabot

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I suppose it depends on how you search for it. When I search this is my first result:
I saw the one he posted as one of my first recommendations, but I didn't see the one you posted. It's probably because of our algorithms. Could even be because of where we are on the planet.

There's a reason why they prohibited other hostages from speaking until filtering the appropriate persons and telling them what they've to say.

Again, still wating for the abomination's suverilliance cameras to show as the so called attrocities.
Who made this claim that there was surveillance that proves anything? The only claim I ever made was that Israeli hostages have said that Hamas were raping their hostages and torturing them, and I JUST showed you an interview where an Israeli hostage points out how they were starving them and how they raped a woman who's potentially pregnant. I met my burden. It's time for you and M3J to meet yours.

You both have made 2 claims:

1: That Hamas doesn't rape or torture their hostages
2: That I'm a rapist and a murderer

Get to work.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT, LMFAO

I just realized the lady in kkck's vid at the very end is the SAME hostage from the Guardian video I posted. In my video she actually claims Hamas treated them well and fed them the same food that they ate, but in kkck's vid she sounds completely morose, talking about how she had trouble with the food, got sick, and that it was harsh and lacked oxygen.

It's amazing how much someone's mannerisms change once they're not in fear for their lives.
 
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