I feel like once you get to the point where you're unwilling to talk about why you believe what you believe, then you've already accepted that you don't have good enough justification for said belief.
Anyway, Biden signed another bill giving Ukraine $1 billion, give or take. This man really wants to lose, doesn't he? If he doesn't want to be the president again, he should just say so and have the Dems get another candidate, instead of sabotaging them. He does know that there are people who are ignorant enough to still be happy at Trump approving a $600/week stimulus, right?
Even before he supported Israel committing genocide against Palestine, he was already on rocky grounds because of the poor way he handled covid months after coming into office, and the right's hate of anything that's not republican, white racist, or conservative. Unlike last time, bringing up Trump's ineptness isn't going to work, especially after his Islamophobic bullshit on top of the Palestinian supporters calling for an end to genocide are getting arrested and brutalized.
Dems are really out of touch, and they're underestimating Trump again.
I'm genuinely curious: what do you think the word ironic means? What is irony to you? Because I just claimed that "not being willing to talk about what you believe can be viewed as a sign that you're not confident you're right."
And I've been talking about what I believe concerning Israel/Palestine since October 7th, so it's not like I've made some grand hypocrisy.
Anyway, Biden signed another bill giving Ukraine $1 billion, give or take. This man really wants to lose, doesn't he? If he doesn't want to be the president again, he should just say so and have the Dems get another candidate, instead of sabotaging them. He does know that there are people who are ignorant enough to still be happy at Trump approving a $600/week stimulus, right?
Maybe? But I don't really get what Ukraine aid has to do with it. Other than a few alt-right hold outs most would agree that funding Ukraine against Russia is one of the greatest bargains presented to the USA in decades. Russia, one of the top world threats to the USA, is literally throwing their own soldiers at another, much smaller country. $100B to decimate the Russia military and strengthen the USA and EU sounds like a no brainer.
This notion that Biden isn't doing enough, so support the third party or whatever is the only thing that's going to possibly push the election into Trump's hands. Anyone who actually gives a fuck about Palestine would ensure that doesn't happen, because if anyone thinks things are bad over there right now, just wait until Trump starts giving Netanyahu daily handies. The extreme left gladly puts idealism above lives, though. At least the right kind of owns who they are.
At this point most of the anti-Biden comments just read like the left version of "RON PAUL 2012!" to me.
Maybe? But I don't really get what Ukraine aid has to do with it. Other than a few alt-right hold outs most would agree that funding Ukraine against Russia is one of the greatest bargains presented to the USA in decades. Russia, one of the top world threats to the USA, is literally throwing their own soldiers at another, much smaller country. $100B to decimate the Russia military and strengthen the USA and EU sounds like a no brainer.
It's just anger that Ukraine is being aided a lot more than Palestine is. Some have claimed it's racism because Ukrainians are white and Palestinians aren't just brown, but they're Muslims.
This notion that Biden isn't doing enough, so support the third party or whatever is the only thing that's going to possibly push the election into Trump's hands. Anyone who actually gives a fuck about Palestine would ensure that doesn't happen, because if anyone thinks things are bad over there right now, just wait until Trump starts giving Netanyahu daily handies. The extreme left gladly puts idealism above lives, though. At least the right kind of owns who they are.
M3J has read this exact sentiment from me for over 5 months now. When confirmation bias hits, you either change your mind, or you change the facts. He chose to change the facts.
At this point most of the anti-Biden comments just read like the left version of "RON PAUL 2012!" to me.
Damn. I didn't think of it like that but I guess you're right.
I am curious about what they think they'll be able to do to enact change if Trump wins and he does all the things we've warned: that he aids Israel much, much more than Biden is, but not only that: cuts aid to Palestinians in any way at all. What then? Who are they going to blame? And how do they expect to fix it?
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EDIT: For transparency's sake: the guy in this vid has been regularly bumping heads with pro-Palestinian protestors. This isn't an entirely organic situation. He probably could have found another entrance. This could be viewed as antagonization. That doesn't diminish the actions of these protestors though. They didn't even bother to explain why he can't come in. They had an opportunity to prove they weren't here to harm anyone and they blew it.
Maybe? But I don't really get what Ukraine aid has to do with it. Other than a few alt-right hold outs most would agree that funding Ukraine against Russia is one of the greatest bargains presented to the USA in decades. Russia, one of the top world threats to the USA, is literally throwing their own soldiers at another, much smaller country. $100B to decimate the Russia military and strengthen the USA and EU sounds like a no brainer.
This notion that Biden isn't doing enough, so support the third party or whatever is the only thing that's going to possibly push the election into Trump's hands. Anyone who actually gives a fuck about Palestine would ensure that doesn't happen, because if anyone thinks things are bad over there right now, just wait until Trump starts giving Netanyahu daily handies. The extreme left gladly puts idealism above lives, though. At least the right kind of owns who they are.
At this point most of the anti-Biden comments just read like the left version of "RON PAUL 2012!" to me.
Oh, sure, this has nothing to do with ukraine. My point more was on israel stuff potentially costing biden the election. Even setting aside that younger folk tend to not vote and thus make them irrelevant for people whose jobs depend on being elected, the alternative as you mention is decidedly worse. Trump relies heavily on the evangelical vote... Which will definitely matter more than protestors who are less likely to vote.
I'm genuinely curious: what do you think the word ironic means? What is irony to you? Because I just claimed that "not being willing to talk about what you believe can be viewed as a sign that you're not confident you're right."
And I've been talking about what I believe concerning Israel/Palestine since October 7th, so it's not like I've made some grand hypocrisy.
You have yet to provide any proof that Israel is the victim and Palestinians are the violent ones. You keep coming up with excuses or old-ass stuff from few years ago or decades ago. Meanwhile, Israel and its politicians have not even provided a single shred of evidence, while Palestinians continuously provide videos and pictures.
Oh, and actually, Zionists and Zionist supporters actually openly call for genocide. I've not seen Palestinians and Palestinian-Americans call for killing Israelis or Zionists, just Palestine supporters.
We'll see because in the last two elections, Dems won the popular vote, and the left went the extra mile to make sure as many people could vote, which helped Biden. But what's "Hamas supporters?" People that support Palestine and want to ceasefire to end? People that support Palestinians defending themselves? People that know how much Israel has lied about Hamas since Oct 7? People who aren't brainwashed?
You have yet to provide any proof that Israel is the victim and Palestinians are the violent ones. You keep coming up with excuses or old-ass stuff from few years ago or decades ago. Meanwhile, Israel and its politicians have not even provided a single shred of evidence, while Palestinians continuously provide videos and pictures.
Why would I try to prove that when that's never been my claim? I never said Israel is "the victim". Israeli innocents were the victims on October 7th, sure. But that doesn't make Israel itself a victim. Palestine is CLEARLY being victimized by Israel with constant bombings.
As I've said. Over and over. Ad nauseum. I don't even think you know what my contention is anymore.
Oh, and actually, Zionists and Zionist supporters actually openly call for genocide. I've not seen Palestinians and Palestinian-Americans call for killing Israelis or Zionists, just Palestine supporters.
Yes you have. I just posted a video of Hamas supporters carrying signs that said things like death to Israel, death to America, and death to the Jews.
As for your link, why in the BLUE FUCK would they think that they could negotiate TWO DAYS AFTER MURDERING 1200 PEOPLE!? There's no negotiation immediately after a terrorist attack. Later maybe, but how naive could they have been? This is even more proof that Hamas as the governmental establishment is a horrible idea.
All I saw is that in March you said Ukraine has some Nazis and seem to imply that Russia isn’t actually bad. That’s not really a reason. It’s just you saying stuff. I guess the point is that you think because your very extreme opinion is not being catered to by the POTUS that enough must feel that way that the election could be tilted out of Biden’s favor. I also don’t get why “Ukraine has some Nazis” is a reason not to help defend them from a literal invasion.
You sound kinda ridiculous. It’s like you think the US government should cut a ton of actually mutually beneficial alliances and allow its enemies to grow significantly more powerful to cater to a region with less population than NYC that would have no qualms with you being stoned to death if you were gay.
Maybe come to terms with that fact that the majority of people (including voters) aren’t nearly as extreme as you are.
We'll see because in the last two elections, Dems won the popular vote, and the left went the extra mile to make sure as many people could vote, which helped Biden. But what's "Hamas supporters?" People that support Palestine and want to ceasefire to end? People that support Palestinians defending themselves? People that know how much Israel has lied about Hamas since Oct 7? People
Welp, my point was more about people who don't vote. These folk are probably not going to move politicians or elections. And anyone who thinks trump is going to be more sympathetic towards palestinians than biden are idiots.
Why would I try to prove that when that's never been my claim? I never said Israel is "the victim". Israeli innocents were the victims on October 7th, sure. But that doesn't make Israel itself a victim. Palestine is CLEARLY being victimized by Israel with constant bombings.
As I've said. Over and over. Ad nauseum. I don't even think you know what my contention is anymore.
Yes you have. I just posted a video of Hamas supporters carrying signs that said things like death to Israel, death to America, and death to the Jews.
As for your link, why in the BLUE FUCK would they think that they could negotiate TWO DAYS AFTER MURDERING 1200 PEOPLE!? There's no negotiation immediately after a terrorist attack. Later maybe, but how naive could they have been? This is even more proof that Hamas as the governmental establishment is a horrible idea.
You made some similar claim months ago and then refused to post any evidence as I've dismissed it for various different reasons. However, Israel is committing a GENOCIDE against Palestine, not "victimizing it with constant bombings." Their intent is to wipe out Palestinians, which they and every single supporter made clear. The fact that Biden continues to help Israel commit genocide while scapegoating Hamas is another nail in the coffin.
True. I thought your argument was that Hamas is evil? I remember condemning Hamas and being disgusted with them when I first learned about Oct 7, but the further I read about Israel and Palestine, the less I could blame Hamas. And then when I saw that Israeli "innocents" blamed IOF for the excessive violence, I realized that Hamas are now likely scapegoated. And then then it didn't help that Israeli hostages and their families were mad at Israel for refusing to negotiate with Hamas to get the hostages back, even when their demands weren't bad.
Looks like that's a video of a group of students against genocide saying that, not Palestinians or Palestinian Americans. In any case, why would anyone opposing the genocide say "death to the Jews" when they literally have Jewish supporters? Most of the supporters will reject right wingers who claim to support Palestine mainly because they're either anti-Semitic or white supremacist or give off that energy, and even Shaun King has been criticized by Palestinian supporters. I've been telling Palestinian supporters to block accounts like Censored men and Jackson Hinkle because they're bigots and pieces of shit.
lol no one who actually and genuinely believes in ending the genocide and giving Palestinians their land back would say "death to the Jews." Death to America and death to Israel? Definitely, given those two countries' histories and their love of genocide. If Israel did not push Palestinians off their lands and committed genocide in its few decades of history, no one would say "Death to Israel," and there'd be no Hamas.
Because they thought Israel cared about its citizens? What I do know is that Israel rejected tons of deals and negotiations from Hamas, even months after the fact, and even after the hostages' families got mad at Israel. Knowing that Hamas have Israeli hostages did not stop Israel from indiscriminately bombing Gaza and taking out their own people, they clearly did not and do not care about them.
Israel wants Hamas to exist because Hamas are the perfect scapegoat. In the first few months, they used Hamas as an excuse to bomb and attack hospitals and residential dwellings because they know people are too dumb and ignorant to take a moment to think.
All I saw is that in March you said Ukraine has some Nazis and seem to imply that Russia isn’t actually bad. That’s not really a reason. It’s just you saying stuff. I guess the point is that you think because your very extreme opinion is not being catered to by the POTUS that enough must feel that way that the election could be tilted out of Biden’s favor. I also don’t get why “Ukraine has some Nazis” is a reason not to help defend them from a literal invasion.
You sound kinda ridiculous. It’s like you think the US government should cut a ton of actually mutually beneficial alliances and allow its enemies to grow significantly more powerful to cater to a region with less population than NYC that would have no qualms with you being stoned to death if you were gay.
Maybe come to terms with that fact that the majority of people (including voters) aren’t nearly as extreme as you are.
I thought Russia was bad back when I was a liberal because of what Dems and Reps said, but now I'm not sure and really have no idea if they are. I'm ignorant in this. I just saw Ukrainian soldiers act like Nazis, and Ukrainian refugees say racist and horrible stuff. I don't think I've said we shouldn't help them at all from being invaded, but when Americans are seeing higher levels of poverty, prices going up, and bad infrastructure, do you think that money should be going to foreign countries? When the government keeps insisting there's not enough money to get rid of student loans, improve healthcare, and etc, it makes them look bad when they send foreign countries billions of dollars.
"stoned to death if you were gay" doesn't work when LGBT+ people are literally being murdered in western countries. USA has seen a high rate of transgender women being murdered, Americans definitely don't have any right to call out another country's stance on LGBT+, especially when Israel is homophobic as well.
What's very extreme about saying Biden should try to stop the genocide? Or that he should help Americans out before helping out other countries? Or that he should cancel student loans like he promised to? Or that he shouldn't have rolled back covid protection? You sound more ridiculous claiming this is extreme. Also, I don't think I've really presented my actual views on this, maybe once or twice since October if that.
Biden supporters are definitely extreme considering they're okay with genocide and bullying.
Welp, my point was more about people who don't vote. These folk are probably not going to move politicians or elections. And anyone who thinks trump is going to be more sympathetic towards palestinians than biden are idiots.
Thankfully, no one has thought that, but they do think Trump can't get worse than Biden as Biden is making Islamophobia worse. And on top of that, protesters are being beaten up, arrested, expelled, and kicked out of their housings, while Biden doesn't seem to be stepping in or saying anything about that, despite "free speech" and "First Amendment."
I mean, it is possible that if people thought their votes counted, then Clinton might have won 2016 instead of Trump. That attitude doesn't make sense, especially amongst the left, when electoral votes swung towards Trump's favor against Clinton or Biden's favor because of those few voters.
True. I thought your argument was that Hamas is evil? I remember condemning Hamas and being disgusted with them when I first learned about Oct 7, but the further I read about Israel and Palestine, the less I could blame Hamas. And then when I saw that Israeli "innocents" blamed IOF for the excessive violence, I realized that Hamas are now likely scapegoated. And then then it didn't help that Israeli hostages and their families were mad at Israel for refusing to negotiate with Hamas to get the hostages back, even when their demands weren't bad.
I don't know if I've ever called them evil. I just remember calling them terrorists. And you never denounced Hamas openly and even made fun of the normal people who want Palestinian supporters to denounce Hamas so if you DID denounce Hamas openly it wasn't here in this forum. In fact, it wasn't until after I posted a video of released hostages claiming that Israeli hostages were raped in captivity that you denounced "the rapists", and not Hamas as an organization.
If I get bored enough I'll scrub your posts over the months and put together a manifesto of just how dismissive you are of the evils committed by Hamas. Maybe.
Looks like that's a video of a group of students against genocide saying that, not Palestinians or Palestinian Americans. In any case, why would anyone opposing the genocide say "death to the Jews" when they literally have Jewish supporters? Most of the supporters will reject right wingers who claim to support Palestine mainly because they're either anti-Semitic or white supremacist or give off that energy, and even Shaun King has been criticized by Palestinian supporters. I've been telling Palestinian supporters to block accounts like Censored men and Jackson Hinkle because they're bigots and pieces of shit.
First off, wrong video. I'm not talking about the American ones, I'm talking about the one with all the Houthis in it. Not Palestinian, sure. But pro-Palestinian. As for the bolded? For the same reason that conservatives still have anti-black/anti-immigrant policies despite there being black and immigrant conservatives in America: because only a FEW of their purposes align. Not all of them. And not the major ones. The protestors in that video I posted with the hate speech signs want the people perpetrating the genocide to DIE. And those people are Jewish people. Zionists sure, but Jewish Zionists. Israeli Zionists. This "Zionists and Jews aren't the same thing" argument fails when you consider that we're talking about Israel specifically, where the vast majority of Jews are Zionists. Calling for the deaths of Zionists means calling for the deaths of almost an entire nation. They're just being honest.
"stoned to death if you were gay" doesn't work when LGBT+ people are literally being murdered in western countries. USA has seen a high rate of transgender women being murdered, Americans definitely don't have any right to call out another country's stance on LGBT+, especially when Israel is homophobic as well.
Yes, it does! When LGBT+ folk are killed in the west it's DESPITE majority opinion and is punished. When they're killed in Middle Eastern nations it's BECAUSE of it and encouraged.
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Also, for the record, I don't condone this^
Attacking these protesters make people sympathetic to their cause. It'll backfire.
I thought Russia was bad back when I was a liberal because of what Dems and Reps said, but now I'm not sure and really have no idea if they are. I'm ignorant in this. I just saw Ukrainian soldiers act like Nazis, and Ukrainian refugees say racist and horrible stuff. I don't think I've said we shouldn't help them at all from being invaded, but when Americans are seeing higher levels of poverty, prices going up, and bad infrastructure, do you think that money should be going to foreign countries? When the government keeps insisting there's not enough money to get rid of student loans, improve healthcare, and etc, it makes them look bad when they send foreign countries billions of dollars.
For one, you can cherry-pick soldiers from any army in the entire world saying racist / horrible stuff. The fact of the matter is that Ukraine is being invaded by a hostile nation, and that is a threat to the overall balance of the world and especially the EU, which is one of the USA's allies. Nobody wants Russia to take Ukraine other than Russia, China, North Korea, and probably Iran. Ukraine does not have the resources to battle Russia indefinitely, and most of what we've sent Ukraine has been munitions (not cash). Very few countries have the ability to manufacture munitions like the USA, so we are likely the only country in the world that actually can "save" Ukraine from invasion. This is also aside from the fact that Ukraine is a huge agricultural producer in Europe.
So yes, I do think that money we should be aiding Ukraine, as munitions aren't going to improve healthcare or pay peoples' loans. I don't think it makes the USA look bad to for once help a country that actually needs it.
"stoned to death if you were gay" doesn't work when LGBT+ people are literally being murdered in western countries. USA has seen a high rate of transgender women being murdered, Americans definitely don't have any right to call out another country's stance on LGBT+, especially when Israel is homophobic as well.
The difference is that if you kill an LGBT+ person in the USA you will be charged with murder. That is not the case in Gaza. Crimes against LGBT+ are overlooked there. You're arguing that because our country has some close-minded people (bearing in mind humans have free will) that it's the same as a country essentially turning a blind eye to crimes against LGBT+ and in many cases even criminalizing their behavior.
What's very extreme about saying Biden should try to stop the genocide? Or that he should help Americans out before helping out other countries? Or that he should cancel student loans like he promised to? Or that he shouldn't have rolled back covid protection? You sound more ridiculous claiming this is extreme. Also, I don't think I've really presented my actual views on this, maybe once or twice since October if that.
Biden supporters are definitely extreme considering they're okay with genocide and bullying.
You're building a straw-man here by implying that helping another country means he's not helping his own, and that by not stopping a sovereign nation from doing what they want to do he's endorsing a genocide, and you're making a lot of assumptions about how much power he actually has. Also, student loans should not be cancelled across the board. That's not how economics works. That would instantly add $2T to the deficit. Student loan borrowers should just gain the ability to declare bankruptcy to discharge said loans and shift some actual risk to the lenders for these loans like with literally any other loan.
COVID protections were in place for when COVID was at its height. COVID has leveled off and is not nearly as dangerous as it was two years ago.
The implication that supporting Biden means you're OK with genocide is crazy. I could easily just spin that that by not supporting Biden you clearly support Trump who would be happy to see your beloved Palestinians reduced to nuclear dust. Not to mention there are several active genocides in the world at the moment that have nothing to do with Israel that you don't seem to care about at all.
Progressives opposed the bill because it would require the government to use a definition of antisemitism that includes criticism of Israel.
www.businessinsider.com
This is embarrassing, and coming from the party that loves to tout free speech and First Amendment rights incorrectly. What are they going to do to the Jews that criticize Israel? And the fact that this is bipartisan is even worse even if more Dems voted against the bill. All this, and protesters being brutalized, arrested, and having their lives/future ruined, just because they all oppose genocide.
Appropriate way to summarize this entire campus protest topic
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oh except the whole part where Skinner labels the children as terrorists and thereby emboldens people to confront them with violence. Forgot that part.
I feel like once you get to the point where you're unwilling to talk about why you believe what you believe, then you've already accepted that you don't have good enough justification for said belief.
Or it's more about not giving free content to people who want to "debate" or those who are "just asking questions". Right wing types have done this type of content for years now and we always ridicule it, but when Destiny does it all of a sudden it's valid? Please.
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Does Destiny want to be associated with buffoons like this? Idk maybe he does
Or it's more about not giving free content to people who want to "debate" or those who are "just asking questions". Right wing types have done this type of content for years now and we always ridicule it, but when Destiny does it all of a sudden it's valid? Please.
Unironically YES. I've watched every one of Destiny's "Change My Mind" style college campus student conversations and not a single one was something Crowder-esque, where he farmed dunks on unwitting children to make their worldview seem ridiculous. We ridicule conservative grifters for doing this because it's always inherently dishonest, with the intention of straw-manning our positions. Not because they're conservative.
I love debate, and it's important. You HAVE to have your ideas challenged to make sure you have them for the right reasons.
Does Destiny want to be associated with buffoons like this? Idk maybe he does
It's not about association, it's about dialogue. And fighting bad ideas with good ones. Not everyone will turn their nose up and snobbishly dismiss what their "opponents" have to say. Some people will take these conversations to heart, and then introspect, and then deconstruct, and then... change.
But it can't happen if no one's willing to talk. Destiny is. And asshole though he may be, we need more people willing to talk. To everyone.[/quote]
EDIT: Oh, I thought you were talking about the kids being buffoons not the grifter chick. But I'd argue he's built up enough of a renown for his political advocacy and debates that no one would mistake him for her ilk. For fuck's sake he's debated Norman Finkelstein and Omar Bhaddar.
Biden is endorsing fascism, and his dumbass supporters are allowing him to get away with it. He's acting as if protesters were the rowdy ones when they were mostly peaceful, while it was the police and the Zionists that got violent. Even staff got attacked trying to protect their students. It's like the man wants to lose without saying he wants to lose!
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