Fantasy August vs Suzaku

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yeah now that I think about it (And I can't believe it took me this long) it looks like the DDK were never really at Human DG level to begin with anyway since a human DG could melt the walls of a confirmed weaker Dragon God and DDKs cannot damage the walls or floor either.

Either Selene's human form is much weaker than Suzaku's or she was lying to them.

 

[WoWfan]

Either Selene's human form is much weaker than Suzaku's or she was lying to them.

I would believe the former, because

1. if we take anything, they should have relatively same stats across for which ever form they take since they have been repeatedly stated to be on the same level as each other and them fighting would result in mutual destruction of each other.
2. And remember a while back that she said she would not mind being defeated by her son's power which Suzaku has, so there may have been an alter motive there, and that she appeared to be fine when she went back to normal when she fooled Diabolos and took over.
3. And she seemed to have contradicted her story where she said that Suzaku is stronger than her human form, and yet she create a human world while being the strongest human, there seems to be something not adding up.

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Suzaku one-shots.

August admitted that only FH Zeref could've been a match for Acnologia, so he implicitly admitted that he was no match for him.

Selene, just as other Dragon Gods, was said to at least as strong as Acnologia.

Suzaku defeated Selene, and she latter admitted that she was no match for him in her Human Form.

Adding Irene won't change anything.

 

[WoWfan]

The difference is that Acno has total Magic immunity, while Selene did not, so the comparison is not really the same, Selene would later say that Suzaku and the other DDK would be a disgrace as they are being defeated. Irene despite Acno’s advantage managed to defeat him still via unconventional means.

 

[Nie Li]

Suzaku one-shots.

August admitted that only FH Zeref could've been a match for Acnologia, so he implicitly admitted that he was no match for him.

Selene, just as other Dragon Gods, was said to at least as strong as Acnologia.

Suzaku defeated Selene, and she latter admitted that she was no match for him in her Human Form.

Adding Irene won't change anything.

Selene in human form ≠ Acnologia.

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Selene in human form ≠ Acnologia.

Human Selene is Human Acno tier.

 

[Nie Li]

Human Selene is Human Acno tier.

Can Suzaku defeat Selene in her real body? Not even close. Your comparison falls apart right there.

And that's without entertaining how Acnologia is such a hard opponent not only because of his MP but mostly because of his "hax". And also without entertaining that the Dragon Gods are in his tier by hearsay only. They did flee to that continent in the past to avoid Acnologia so at best they are at the lower bottom of his tier.

 

[WoWfan]

And even Irene managed to beat Human Acno who has more advantages than Selene does via unconventional means.

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

to beat Human Acno

bruh what

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2022 ---

Can Suzaku defeat Selene in her real body? Not even close. Your comparison falls apart right there.

And that's without entertaining how Acnologia is such a hard opponent not only because of his MP but mostly because of his "hax". And also without entertaining that the Dragon Gods are in his tier by hearsay only. They did flee to that continent in the past to avoid Acnologia so at best they are at the lower bottom of his tier.

Yeah, 400 years ago.

They are much stronger now.

Yeah, Dragon Selene no-diffs Suzaku but loses extreme-diff in her Human Form.

 

[grey matter]

Can Suzaku defeat Selene in her real body? Not even close. Your comparison falls apart right there.

Why does this matter? Everyone knows dragon form >> human form.
Eileen went from being just somewhat better than Erza on her human form, to nearly one shotting her in dragon form.
And, the boost especially is higher for special dragons such as Acno, Igneel, DGs etc.

Unless you're arguing that dragon Acno isn't >> human Acno, his comparison didn’t really fall apart here

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Igneel

Has Igneel access to a Human Form?

 

[WoWfan]

bruh what

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2022 ---

Yeah, 400 years ago.

They are much stronger now.

Yeah, Dragon Selene no-diffs Suzaku but loses extreme-diff in her Human Form.

She beat him in their last encounter unconventionally.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2022 ---

Why does this matter? Everyone knows dragon form >> human form.
Eileen went from being just somewhat better than Erza on her human form, to nearly one shotting her in dragon form.
And, the boost especially is higher for special dragons such as Acno, Igneel, DGs etc.

Unless you're arguing that dragon Acno isn't >> human Acno, his comparison didn’t really fall apart here

She is somewhat better because at the beginning Irene was playing around, and when Erza got a power up from Wendy via Irene's body, she could tangle with human Irene.

 

[grey matter]

also without entertaining that the Dragon Gods are in his tier by hearsay only. They did flee to that continent in the past to avoid Acnologia so at best they are at the lower bottom of his tier.

Explicit statements in the manga. The author intent is pretty clear.
And again, if Igneel has enough stats to give Acno a high- extreme diff, I don't see why other top tier dragons can't.

Acno's greatest strength was the soul steal hax, which presumably allowed him to no diff Igneel and other top tier dragons of the past.

Also, they fled 400 years back and grew stronger. So, faulty argument again.

Has Igneel access to a Human Form?

Just basing off what Natsu accomplished with DK scales and with his DF in general.
Natsu's DF basically partially turns him into "Igneel".
So, the gap between Igneel and a hypothetical human Igneel would be the difference between base Natsu and natsu fully turned into a dragon through DF

If weaker scales from Natsu provides such high boost, the Dragon Igneel himself is a super high body.

Some more comparisons. Suzaku can one shot Natsu if he doesn't use scales. But scales allow him to tank attacks from Suzaku, even though DS attacks should work even better against dragon scales.
Erza's attacks hurt human Eileen, but she was able to tank them. While Erza's attack with DS magic tore through dragon Eileen's scales, like hot knife through butter.
This suggests a massive difference in quality between the two scales.

 

[WoWfan]

Again, Igneel and the Other dragons were beaten by Acno before Tartaros so Igneel used his last strength to give a blow for the humans to exploit later on

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2022 ---

Again, Erza has Irene’s power to deliver the damage in the final battle.

 

[Nie Li]

Why does this matter? Everyone knows dragon form >> human form.
Eileen went from being just somewhat better than Erza on her human form, to nearly one shotting her in dragon form.
And, the boost especially is higher for special dragons such as Acno, Igneel, DGs etc.

Unless you're arguing that dragon Acno isn't >> human Acno, his comparison didn’t really fall apart here

It looks like you didn't read his post before answering to mine.

It's him who's saying "Acno isn't >> human Acno". He said that "Acnologia [full acnologia, not "human Acnologia"] > Agust and Suzaku > Human Selene so Suzaku > August".

You should see how that falls apart, and why it matters Acnologia isn't equal to Human Selene.

Yeah, 400 years ago.

They are much stronger now.

Yeah, Dragon Selene no-diffs Suzaku but loses extreme-diff in her Human Form.

1- Compared to Acnologia 400 years ago, too.

2- They were still hiding. Even the oh, so arrogant Ignia. There's a reason why Gildarts ran into Acnologia while trying to complete this very same mission. Because Acnologia was sniffing them.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2022 ---

Your argument still fell apart in the comparison. You can argue the rest of my og post all you want, it was an extra.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2022 ---

Explicit statements in the manga. The author intent is pretty clear.
And again, if Igneel has enough stats to give Acno a high- extreme diff, I don't see why other top tier dragons can't.

This answer is offtopic, as it's irrelevant to what was being discussed and I have already cleared that topic in my previous post, but I've got to say it anyway:

They were explicit statements in the manga from an unreliable narrator who probably has never even fought Acnologia to make such a comparison (he would be dead), not straight form the author, and regardless of intent nothing that Mercphobia and Aldoron showed put them on Acnologia's level. They may somehow have similar MPs, but talking about Dragon Gods as if they're equal feels like talking about Spriggans comparing August to Invel, especially since Acnologia's main hax is somehow similar to August's.

Even just between Mercphobia and Ignia there was a gap in strength.

 

[aymen24]

Spoiler: 🤣🤣

 

[grey matter]

It looks like you didn't read his post before answering to mine.

It's him who's saying "Acno isn't >> human Acno". He said that "Acnologia [full acnologia, not "human Acnologia"] > Agust and Suzaku > Human Selene so Suzaku > August".

You should see how that falls apart, and why it matters Acnologia isn't equal to Human Selene.

I saw him saying human Acno ~ human Selene, and you disagreed.

He never said dragon Acno = human Selene.
He made the comparison of August admitting he was fodder to Acnologia. And this was human Acno btw. And compared this Acno to human Selene, who is Suzaku tier.

And anyway, I really don't get the point you're trying to make here.
Is your point that he should've explicitly stated human Acno? You misunderstanding this is just on you lol, cause in manga August was blitzed and shat his pants at human Acno (Acno travelled 100+m while August was looking straight and didn't even comprehend what had transpired).

This answer is offtopic, as it's irrelevant to what was being discussed and I have already cleared that topic in my previous post, but I've got to say it anyway:

They were explicit statements in the manga from an unreliable narrator who probably has never even fought Acnologia to make such a comparison (he would be dead), not straight form the author, and regardless of intent nothing that Mercphobia and Aldoron showed put them on Acnologia's level. They may somehow have similar MPs, but talking about Dragon Gods as if they're equal feels like talking about Spriggans comparing August to Invel, especially since Acnologia's main hax is somehow similar to August's.

Even just between Mercphobia and Ignia there was a gap in strength.

We have three people comparing DGs to Acno:
- Elefseria
- Ignia
- Selene
The author intent is pretty clear dude. Can you, in good faith, argue that this is not the author intent? Regardless of your view on the actual feats.

Merc was nerfed to less than half his power. Aldo woke up nerfed, and was nerfed massively on top of this by 4 of his God Seeds going down. So, it's unfair to compare them to Acno.
We then had Selene, with Merc saying this is an actual full powered DG. So, any comparisons we make, has to be towards Selene. Let's see how she fares, we haven't seen her dragon form going all out.

And again, nerfed Merc flipped over an entire ocean, and pretty much no diff'd x793 team Natsu, with all their members amp'd on DS magic.
x793 team Natsu did ZERO damage to nerfed Merc.
While x792 Erza with broken bones one shotted dragon Eileen.
At the very least, this conclusively and undeniably proves nerfed dragon Merc >>>>>> dragon Eileen. By extrapolation, this applies to their human forms as well, and hence human Selene.

Both the narrative (author intent) and feats place Dragon Gods, FAR above Spriggans. It's quite ridiculous that this is being debated.

And again, why is it hard to get that DGs are Acno tier, in the same way Igneel is?
It's not like there isn't a precedence for top tier dragons to be comparable to Acno, at least in pure stats (adding magic immunity and soul steal obviously means Acno wins)

The comparison of Invel with August is faulty. Because the manga explicitly stated August was far stronger.
The manga has made explicit comparisons between DGs and Acno.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 15, 2022 ---

Either Selene's human form is much weaker than Suzaku's or she was lying to them.

It probably means there is something special about the walls that only DGs can damage them. Or it could be that high MP is needed. etc

Or, it could just be Mashima being Mashima, with retcons and/or zero consistency lmao

 

[WoWfan]

@grey matter Wendy can damage the material of the maze so it would require high MP

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

I saw him saying human Acno ~ human Selene, and you disagreed.

He never said dragon Acno = human Selene.
He made the comparison of August admitting he was fodder to Acnologia. And this was human Acno btw. And compared this Acno to human Selene, who is Suzaku tier.

And anyway, I really don't get the point you're trying to make here.
Is your point that he should've explicitly stated human Acno? You misunderstanding this is just on you lol, cause in manga August was blitzed and shat his pants at human Acno (Acno travelled 100+m while August was looking straight and didn't even comprehend what had transpired).



We have three people comparing DGs to Acno:
- Elefseria
- Ignia
- Selene
The author intent is pretty clear dude. Can you, in good faith, argue that this is not the author intent? Regardless of your view on the actual feats.

Merc was nerfed to less than half his power. Aldo woke up nerfed, and was nerfed massively on top of this by 4 of his God Seeds going down. So, it's unfair to compare them to Acno.
We then had Selene, with Merc saying this is an actual full powered DG. So, any comparisons we make, has to be towards Selene. Let's see how she fares, we haven't seen her dragon form going all out.

And again, nerfed Merc flipped over an entire ocean, and pretty much no diff'd x793 team Natsu, with all their members amp'd on DS magic.
x793 team Natsu did ZERO damage to nerfed Merc.
While x792 Erza with broken bones one shotted dragon Eileen.
At the very least, this conclusively and undeniably proves nerfed dragon Merc >>>>>> dragon Eileen. By extrapolation, this applies to their human forms as well, and hence human Selene.

Both the narrative (author intent) and feats place Dragon Gods, FAR above Spriggans. It's quite ridiculous that this is being debated.

And again, why is it hard to get that DGs are Acno tier, in the same way Igneel is?
It's not like there isn't a precedence for top tier dragons to be comparable to Acno, at least in pure stats (adding magic immunity and soul steal obviously means Acno wins)

The comparison of Invel with August is faulty. Because the manga explicitly stated August was far stronger.
The manga has made explicit comparisons between DGs and Acno.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 15, 2022 ---

It probably means there is something special about the walls that only DGs can damage them. Or it could be that high MP is needed. etc

Or, it could just be Mashima being Mashima, with retcons and/or zero consistency lmao

Basically this.

 

[Vex_Haid]

Irene fought a playful acno and came out unscratched and was stated to be strong by him

Suzaku with help from natsu got folded by a playful Ignia and was treated like a joke to him

August=Irene

Do the math