Conditional Base Erza vs BSS Mirajane

[One4All]

meh

who cares honestly.

even Erza vs Kyoka has an explanation but no one likes it.

what I find funny is how a natural dragon became a human permanently

Wait. Is Merc's form permanent?gotta read the chapter again later.

 

[grey matter]

Wait. Is Merc's form permanent?gotta read the chapter again later.

It is lol. As far as we know at least. A natural dragon, who relied on magic to maintain human form, permanently becomes human after losing his magic power

 

[Vis]

The only attacks Erza didn't take head-on from Laxus was the one she matched with Blumenblatt (and she still took brunt of the attack) and the attack he used to take out Kyria (which should not have been much at all)

For Mirajane to win this, she would have to be able to nearly magically exhaust Laxus the way Erza did. Is that something most of you really see? Because I quite frankly can't even begin to compare Mirajane with Laxus.

To add on top of that, not only does Mirajane not have those feats at all, but by common argument standards around here, she would also need to be able to do all that in her Base Satan Soul.

So... lol.

 

[Plutogrim]

Erza with no armor still take this med diff even if Mirajane can use all her forms.

 

[Ronin31]

How can Mira take out Erza's stamina and durability ? Erza is a monster tank who can exaust her even without being offensive, only defensive.
She tanked Laxus until being exaust, an enhanced Laxus with new hability who strikes far harder than Mira.

Mira is strong but she has no weaponeries to take out Erza.

 

[Eclopse]

How is this even a question? BSS lost to Juliet and Heyne. Forget about the two, it looked like she was having a hard time against either of them. Base Erza would fold them.

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Erza is Erza after all... So I'm going with Erza.

 

[AmitDS]

BSS Mirajane was on par with Skullion after fighting Lucy and we are to assume that heavily injured BSS Mirajane (not any other form) gave Gray an extreme diff fight when he was near fresh. BSS Mira beats base Erza for sure.

 

[Ronin31]

BSS Mirajane was on par with Skullion after fighting Lucy and we are to assume that heavily injured BSS Mirajane (not any other form) gave Gray an extreme diff fight when he was near fresh. BSS Mira beats base Erza for sure.

I think you overestimate Mirajane. Erza could tank all Laxus's RL strength until both being empty.
Mirajane doesn't strike as hard as Laxus and her MP reserve (Mirajane's weakness since the beginning) is clearly not on par as well.

Her fights with Skullion and Grey (who couldn't use his strength against Happy and Carla while being turn into Monsters because they are friends : Mira is also his friend in same way) are not comparable feats to tank Laxus while wearing no protections (useless).

Erza can tank all Mirajane can launch until exaust her MP. She doesn't need to be offensive.

 

[AmitDS]

I think you overestimate Mirajane. Erza could tank all Laxus's RL strength until both being empty.
Mirajane doesn't strike as hard as Laxus and her MP reserve (Mirajane's weakness since the beginning) is clearly not on par as well.

I am going with the thread creator's stipulation:


"Erza is tired of Mira fans so she decides to go slap some sense into and assert her dominance by beating Mirajane without using any armor nor weapon...

Restrictions:
Erza:can't use any armour nor weapon.
Mira:can only use wingless BSS
All: have to stay within 10m of the other "

This is base Erza then she has nothing to put down BSS Mira. She doesn't need to replicate Laxus' AP to eventually beat base Erza. Erza can't even user her basic swords hence my answer. If this is base Erza who is inferior to the Erza Kyria fought the first time (she had some swords) then she loses. Erza was damaging Laxus too while they fought and blocking and partying his attacks. Had Erza been without swords or armor Laxus would have beaten her easier. I don't think I need to explain how this would work ie Laxus or even Mirajane beating her by just attacking her while she can't do much to retaliate. Without swords or armor Erza cannot stall Mirajane before the latter stacks up damage against her and wins

Her fights with Skullion and Grey (who couldn't use his strength against Happy and Carla while being turn into Monsters because they are friends : Mira is also his friend in same way) are not comparable feats to tank Laxus while wearing no protections (useless).

This was already debunked by the fact that Juvia said Gray gave it his all vs Mira and Cana teased him for struggling with Mira before he himself agreed that he struggled.

Had Gray held back, Juvia, Cana and Gray himself would have pointed this out as opposed to the opposite.

Erza can tank all Mirajane can launch until exaust her MP. She doesn't need to be offensive.

Base Erza without weapons doesn't have the luxury of tanking all of Mira's attacks and exhausting her. She can't even hurt her significantly without a sword or armor. Furthermore Mira has fought Lucy for a while, Skullion for a long while and then Gray who she lost to extreme diff while heavily injured without running out of magic power as far as we know. Odds are, she isn't running out against base Erza who can't even use her benizakura sword to channel all of her power into attacking.

Mashima pretty much told you guys how strong Mira was by wanking her via character statements and feats, as beyond Gajeel and among the strongest enemies with Laxus and Jellal; as someone beyond Gray significantly; as someone who stalemated Skullion in her weakest form; as someone way beyond Madmole and Elfman in her weakest form as well, and it's still not clicking.

The portrayal is clear and at the risk of starting a shitstorm and allowing people to shift the argument, it's showing us that Mira at full power would even give Erza and Laxus at full power a lot of trouble. Mashima will always buff the S rank mages in the end, regardless of how Gray, Gajeel and even Natsu progress. And yes that includes Mirajane.

 

[Ronin31]

I am going with the thread creator's stipulation:


"Erza is tired of Mira fans so she decides to go slap some sense into and assert her dominance by beating Mirajane without using any armor nor weapon...

Restrictions:
Erza:can't use any armour nor weapon.
Mira:can only use wingless BSS
All: have to stay within 10m of the other "

This is base Erza then she has nothing to put down BSS Mira. She doesn't need to replicate Laxus' AP to eventually beat base Erza. Erza can't even user her basic swords hence my answer. If this is base Erza who is inferior to the Erza Kyria fought the first time (she had some swords) then she loses.



This was already debunked by the fact that Juvia said Gray gave it his all vs Mira and Cana teased him for struggling with Mira before he himself agreed that he struggled.

Had Gray held back, Juvia, Cana and Gray himself would have pointed this out as opposed to the opposite.



Base Erza doesn't have the luxury of tanking all of Mira's attacks and exhausting her. Furthermore Mira has fought Lucy for a while, Skullion for a long while and then Gray who she lost to extreme diff while heavily injured without running out of magic power. Odds are, she isn't running out against base Erza who can't even use her benizakura sword to channel all of her power into attacking.

Mashima pretty much told you guys how strong Mira was by wanking her as beyond Gajeel and among the strongest with Laxus and Jellal; as someone beyond Gray significantly; as someone who stalemated Skullion in her weakest form and it's still not clicking. The portrayal is clear and at the risk of starting a shitstorm and allowing people to shift the argument, it's showing us that Mira at full power would even give Erza and Laxus at full power a lot of trouble. Mashima will always buff the S rank mages in the end, regardless of how Gray, Gajeel and even Natsu progress. And yes that includes Mirajane.

I can agree for some points and disagree for others. What makes you think that Satan Soul is Mirajane's weakest form ? In this form, she grew strong enough to compete equally with Jacob, a Spriggan. I think, the Spriggan is stronger than Seilha. So Satan Form is certainly above all the souls she took over in Tartaros, unless the "Pluto Grim" form, which is a One Shot move like Lucy's Mix Star Dress.

For Grey, beating him in Base Mode is not a crazy feat. We already know that Mirajane is stronger than Base Grey, Gajeel or Natsu. Natsu (Base) + Lucy couldn't take down Jacob in combat before tricks. She took him down alone in a hard fight. As I haven't seen Grey's best form in this combat I can't assume he used it. Still you can go all out and spend your magic until being exaust in Base form. Or are you assuming Natsu gave his best against Gajeel ? It's same way of fighting (people who haven't seen this fight and come to the final point can see Natsu as exaust as Gajeel to nearly a mismatch : but in the show, I haven't seen any Dragon King's spell or Dragon Force to put him down). I also can assume that Elfman was still aside Mirajane and even exaust, can still support her. So Grey faced an exausted team up while the girls split to take Makarov, Gajeel and Reby in the cards the time they fought.

Yes, Mirajane is strong, agree, and Elfman as well as I can class him Natsu/Grey/Gajeel's base level. But no, I don't think Mirajane is on par or can give troubles to the like of Erza/Laxus/Jellal. In fact, I can place her in the middle Tier between the current S-Classes and Natsu-Grey-Gajeel-Elfman's level.

Erza's powerlevel is also base on her psychologic mood. If she is confident, Mirajane can't take her down. I think she is still too durable.
If she is doubtfull, perhaps she can take average under these conditions, but clearly not even sure.

For Kyria, she took Erza down only with hax (even the first time while Erza was with a normal sword), which hax is now useless against Erza's artificial's eye. Not sure Kyria could have taken down Erza without her hax as I think Erza is still too durable physically.

But we can agree to disagree, no problem with that.

 

[AmitDS]

I can agree for some points and disagree for others. What makes you think that Satan Soul is Mirajane's weakest form ? In this form, she grew strong enough to compete equally with Jacob, a Spriggan. I think, the Spriggan is stronger than Seilha. So Satan Form is certainly above all the souls she took over in Tartaros, unless the "Pluto Grim" form, which is a One Shot move like Lucy's Mix Star Dress.

Common sense. Sitri was called her strongest in the GMG which means her basic Satan soul is her weakest. Even in the anime filler, halphas is stated to be and shown to be above her BSS.

Her BSS was equal to Seilah outside of etherious therefore there is no evidence that Mira using any other form is weaker than BSS.

Did you ever think that Mira grew stronger so her BSS feats look better as time goes on? And that, like it is with every character, scales up her stronger forms and moves?

For Grey, beating him in Base Mode is not a crazy feat. We already know that Mirajane is stronger than Base Grey, Gajeel or Natsu. Natsu (Base) + Lucy couldn't take down Jacob in combat before tricks. She took him down alone in a hard fight. As I haven't seen Grey's best form in this combat I can't assume he used it. Still you can go all out and spend your magic until being exaust in Base form. Or are you assuming Natsu gave his best against Gajeel ? It's same way of fighting (people who haven't seen this fight and come to the final point can see Natsu as exaust as Gajeel to nearly a mismatch : but in the show, I haven't seen any Dragon King's spell or Dragon Force to put him down).

Juvia literally said he did his best and Gray was saying Mira would be tough, he expected her to be heavily injured when he proceeded to fight her and that she would be able to beat Skullion who we saw beat him at his best. I don't have to prove he went all out. You actually have to prove he did not. Good luck.

Yes, Mirajane is strong, agree, and Elfman as well as I can class him Natsu/Grey/Gajeel's base level. But no, I don't think Mirajane is on par or can give troubles to the like of Erza/Laxus/Jellal. In fact, I can place her in the middle Tier between the current S-Classes and Natsu-Grey-Gajeel-Elfman's level.

Well as I said I knew it would divert the conversation. I disagree because imo someone being comparable to Gray giving his best in her weakest form while heavily injured is someone who can give great difficulty to Erza and even Jellal and Laxus at her strongest.

If Gray and Gajeel give Laxus, Jellal or Erza mid difficulty in battle, which I'm sure most agree they would, then Mira gives them high or extreme since she's notably stronger than Gray & thus Gajeel in her weakest takeover. That's how I see it.

Erza's powerlevel is also base on her psychologic mood. If she is confident, Mirajane can't take her down. I think she is still too durable.
If she is doubtfull, perhaps she can take average under these conditions, but clearly not even sure.

Not really. She couldn't will her way to beat Laxus and in this case she has no armors or weapons unlike that fight so even though Mira is weaker than Laxus, she has more than enough power to take down Erza with no swords and no armor. You're describing power of friendship asspull which don't usually help them vs FT mages ie their friends.

For Kyria, she took Erza down only with hax (even the first time while Erza was with a normal sword), which hax is now useless against Erza's artificial's eye. Not sure Kyria could have taken down Erza without her hax as I think Erza is still too durable physically.


But we can agree to disagree, no problem with that.

Kyria taking down Erza with hax is irrelevant. I brought her up to show that the Erza in this fight is weaker than that Erza who had access to swords. Also Mira being equal to Skullion in her weakest form and him being stronger than Madmole (who was tied with Elfman) and Gray (who he beat relatively easily) proves that the weakest form of Mirajane would beat Kyria as well if she can't use hax and even then we don't know how Mira's hax like Macro would affect Kyria. I personally think that Kyria being so much weaker than Erza and Skullion and probably being comparable to Madmole makes it likely that Mira beats her in a battle where they both employ hax.

We also don't know if Mira views herself as weak like Laxus to gain immunity or strong like Erza to be weak against Kyria's hypnosis.
Erza believes that she is strong and must be strong to protect her friends. Laxus desires to protect his friends to the point that he never thinks he's strong or strong enough to satisfy this need.
Where does Mira fall?

 

[Ronin31]

You actually have to prove he did not. Good luck.

Like I said, you can go all out without using your trump card. So yes, he did his best as Jubia's statement and Grey's himself. I agree with that. I didn't agree with the fact he used demon slayer's hability against a friend using demon corpse, already weakened after a previous fight. Or prove it as well.

I saw Natsu exaust to near a stalemate vs Gajeel. I think he did his all out spending his magic. Can you prove he used Dragon Force or even FDK in that fight ?
Good luck as well.

Like I said, Mirajane is strong. But I think she is a tier below the like of Erza-Laxus-Jellal, even without their new habilities.

 

[bugen]

Not really. She couldn't will her way to beat Laxus

You know that the author put -Double Ko- at the end of the fight.
It seems incredible to have to explain that double is 2 (Erza and Laxus), it is not 1 (only Laxus).

At no time did Erza Ko and Laxus sleep, so try not to go against the author who draws the manga.

The same Laxus who did the fight said he was in the same situation as Erza, I don't understand why denying something that is put in the manga is not off-panel like Mirajane's fighting.

common sense, please.

 

[LaGOAT]

Laxus>=erza

Anyways base erza is what particularly? Her with no armor? Just swords if so mirajane wins

 

[AmitDS]

You know that the author put -Double Ko- at the end of the fight.
It seems incredible to have to explain that double is 2 (Erza and Laxus), it is not 1 (only Laxus).

At no time did Erza Ko and Laxus sleep, so try not to go against the author who draws the manga.

The same Laxus who did the fight said he was in the same situation as Erza, I don't understand why denying something that is put in the manga is not off-panel like Mirajane's fighting.

common sense, please.

I didn't say that Laxus beat her. I said she failed to beat him which was true. Common sense, please.

"Not really. She couldn't will her way to beat Laxus and in this case she has no armors or weapons unlike that fight so even though Mira is weaker than Laxus, she has more than enough power to take down Erza with no swords and no armor. You're describing power of friendship asspull which don't usually help them vs FT mages ie their friends."

IMO Laxus did better, though. Erza fell first and Laxus was fighting Kyria before this. Laxus was also up and carrying an unconscious Erza around after the fight. Even if we deny that Laxus won, saying Erza beat him his clearly wrong.

No one denies that they are on the same tier or level.

I also stand by what I said. Erza did not beat Laxus. Even if you call it a tie, she still failed to beat him.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2021 ---

Like I said, you can go all out without using your trump card. So yes, he did his best as Jubia's statement and Grey's himself. I agree with that. I didn't agree with the fact he used demon slayer's hability against a friend using demon corpse, already weakened after a previous fight. Or prove it as well.

You agreeing or not is irrelevant. You can't change what giving your best or giving your all means. Gray needed to beat her up bad enough to knock her unconscious.

We also saw Gray use Devil slaying Magic to beat up Freed in his demon form before he fought Mira so where is the evidence that he didn't use it on Mira, another friend?

Spoiler

There is evidence that points to him using his DeS while there is no evidence that he failed to use it.

It's so funny how this argument is always in favor of Gray as if Mira was confirmed to be attempting to murder Gray and Lucy in her fights. Just because Gray didn't want to kill her with what you guys think is her kryptonite, doesn't mean he didn't use it or didn't go all out.

Cana and Gray also referenced Gray's devil slaying magic when Cana said his freezing would fail against Mira like it did Skullion when Gray said he was going to freeze them. We all knew he used DeS against Skullion to freeze him. Gray agreed with Cana that his freezing failed on Skullion so it would fail on Mira, before their fight.

Spoiler

This also shows Gray intending to use his DeS powers on Mira.

I saw Natsu exaust to near a stalemate vs Gajeel. I think he did his all out spending his magic. Can you prove he used Dragon Force or even FDK in that fight ?
Good luck as well.

And I saw Gray use demon slaying magic on Freed in demon form before Juvia said he gave it his all against Mira off panel and Cana laughed at him for struggling to which he replied because it was Mirajane he was fighting. Context clues.

And well unlike Gajeel, Mira was stronger than her opponent so I don't see why Gajeel and Natsu are relevant here.

Like I said, Mirajane is strong. But I think she is a tier below the like of Erza-Laxus-Jellal, even without their new habilities.

Ok? Well I think that is funny since that just makes Gray and Gajeel low diff fights for each of the three if Mira at full power is a whole tier below them and she is already above Gray and Gajeel with her weakest form.

 

[Ramen]

Erza will always be superior to Mira. Simple.

 

[bugen]

I didn't say that Laxus beat her. I said she failed to beat him which was true. Common sense, please.

"Not really. She couldn't will her way to beat Laxus and in this case she has no armors or weapons unlike that fight so even though Mira is weaker than Laxus, she has more than enough power to take down Erza with no swords and no armor. You're describing power of friendship asspull which don't usually help them vs FT mages ie their friends."

IMO Laxus did better, though. Erza fell first and Laxus was fighting Kyria before this. Laxus was also up and carrying an unconscious Erza around after the fight. Even if we deny that Laxus won, saying Erza beat him his clearly wrong.

No one denies that they are on the same tier or level.

I also stand by what I said. Erza did not beat Laxus. Even if you call it a tie, she still failed to beat him.

Laxus's words were -That's my line- to Erza's words of defeat, so they both defeated each other, just like Kyria said at the end of the fight, please read the entire manga and do not leave bullets unread.

Laxus got up when his magic power was restored by Faris like the other companions, it appears in the same pages, do not avoid facts put in the manga.

And if you come with disadvantages for Laxus, put also the disadvantages for Erza, that she was holding back for fighting with a friend, while Laxus was serious from the beginning.

Your words cannot remove the author's words, it doesn't matter if you don't accept the fact that they both knocked out each other, because what's official is what the author says and not you, so common sense please.

 

[AmitDS]

Laxus's words were -That's my line- to Erza's words of defeat, so they both defeated each other, just like Kyria said at the end of the fight, please read the entire manga and do not leave bullets unread.

Laxus got up when his magic power was restored by Faris like the other companions, it appears in the same pages, do not avoid facts put in the manga.

And if you come with disadvantages for Laxus, put also the disadvantages for Erza, that she was holding back for fighting with a friend, while Laxus was serious from the beginning.

Your words cannot remove the author's words, it doesn't matter if you don't accept the fact that they both knocked out each other, because what's official is what the author says and not you, so common sense please.

@Bold you're making that up though. I love how you guys act like Mira and Laxus were trying to kill Gray and Erza who were not fighting for real lol. And I'm not coming up with disadvantages, I'm stating my personal opinion regardless of the fight being a tie i.e. Laxus did better IMO because he fell after her and got up and was physically in a better state than her after this as shown by him running around carrying her unconscious body.

Also Faris didn't steal and return Laxus' power in the same way she did Juvia. Faris controlled all of their magic but allowed everyone bar Juvia to access it to fight Team Natsu since Juvia was not under her brain washing. Laxus was given his max magical power to use. Juvia got her magic back which was being restricted when Faris went down while Laxus already had access to his magic since Faris allowed it, which he exhausted fighting Kyria and then Erza so he still got up before and ran around with Erza while he protected her, after he fell later than her in their fight. That's why Gray said they won't get stronger when they free allies since Faris would still control their magic so this had nothing to do with Laxus' fight unless you're saying that Laxus used all of his magic vs Erza then Faris being defeated and losing control of him refilled all of his magic reserves.

So Laxus only got his magic back in the sense that he had control over his magic and his mind. He still had to use the little bit he had when he regained the magic and control over it since at that time Faris had already given him access to his magical power and he used it all up and was just starting to regenerate.

Spoiler

& What are you even talking about? This is what I said:

I didn't say that Laxus beat her. I said she failed to beat him which was true. Common sense, please.

"Not really. She couldn't will her way to beat Laxus and in this case she has no armors or weapons unlike that fight so even though Mira is weaker than Laxus, she has more than enough power to take down Erza with no swords and no armor. You're describing power of friendship asspull which don't usually help them vs FT mages ie their friends."

IMO Laxus did better, though. Erza fell first and Laxus was fighting Kyria before this. Laxus was also up and carrying an unconscious Erza around after the fight. Even if we deny that Laxus won, saying Erza beat him his clearly wrong.

No one denies that they are on the same tier or level.

I also stand by what I said. Erza did not beat Laxus. Even if you call it a tie, she still failed to beat him.

If you have an issue with me personally stating that Laxus did better IMO, then that's on you. You're not the only one who can give opinions, However I did not say that it failed to be a tie.

 

[bugen]

This shows what each person wants to read, no matter what the author puts it.

I at least trust the words of Laxus, Kyria, and the author.
The fight made it clear the difference of blows of Erza holding back and Erza seriously, who does not want to see that depends on each one.

I will just follow what the author says.

AmitDS it seems to me that you are confusing me with another user.