Battle Best 5 vs Meruem

[kkck]

There's no indication conjured items have any better physical quality than normal stuff. Beyond Netero was shown handcuffed by what's presumably a real handcuff, and he's likely the strongest human in the entire series by a significant advantage. Ignoring special property that randomly ignores the 'limit of human' like how Shizuku can suck things up to another dimension that she doesn't even know about, conjured items are quite worthless compared to their real counterparts, which is why you randomly have conjured items that can do stuff that are quite beyond human capability, but only if Togashi decided to give you such a bailout.

For the conditions, just because Togashi has a way of making bogus conditions sound like it's very hard doesn't mean one can't apply some critical thinking. Giving up your life is not a serious condition when facing a guy who has 100% chance of killing you. If what Gon does is actually perfectly normal then you'd just have guys randomly turn 10 times stronger right before they die because after all if you're going to die you might as well mortgage whatever future you could've had and it's not going to get any worse, so for example when Hisoka fought Kastro, Kastro no longer had enough aura to use another clone, but he should be like: "I'll never use aura again so I need about 10X of my current power to defeat Hisoka now", and then since Hisoka technically had no arms left at that time to defend against even a normal attack he'd be forced to also use a "never use aura again" power and then Hisoka would be done. Netero's final attack basically used up his remaining life force and all it did was made Meryem more bruised than usual, and the difference between Netero and Meryem is considerably less than the difference between Gon and Pitou.

Yes Gon has super potential so you can handwave some of that stuff, but the notion that he had to give up a lot is nonsense. He would have died with 100% certainty if he didn't get his bailout power. Whatever aftereffect you may have to suffer is still better than dying outright. And no there is no such thing as 'fate worse than death', because otherwise anyone would just ask for super power bailout for suffering a 'fate worse than death' and it'd be the complete norm to see random newbies completely destroy the top 5 users because they're willing to take a 'fate worse than death' condition. Sacrificing your life should roughly be the difference between bruised and more bruised (the amount of damage Meryem took from Netero's attacks), and that was from one of the most powerful characters in the series.

Well, the manga has made the point that what influences the strength behind conditions and whatnot in the individual's personality and psychology. Nen alone can't make the objective assessment that gon is not loosing much anyway at that point. What was important was what was going on in gon's head. Which at the time was kite and his desire to avenge him. Its the same thing for kurapica and his chain jail. Its because he specifically wants to target the spiders that his chain is so effective against them. Someone else doing the same thing would not necessarily mean he can restrain the spiders as kurapica does.

Also, gon didn't just sacrifice his life. Surely that was a part of it but there is also the consideration that gon as a whole was said to bet his entire potential which presumably exceeds netero's. Netero as an old man probably would not have had that potential thing to gamble as gon did. We can also make the point that for gon the whole thing was ultimately far more personal than for netero. Netero just wanted a good fight, one to wage his life on, but still only a good fight. Gon presumably had much stronger emotions at play.

 

[Phantron]

Well, the manga has made the point that what influences the strength behind conditions and whatnot in the individual's personality and psychology. Nen alone can't make the objective assessment that gon is not loosing much anyway at that point. What was important was what was going on in gon's head. Which at the time was kite and his desire to avenge him. Its the same thing for kurapica and his chain jail. Its because he specifically wants to target the spiders that his chain is so effective against them. Someone else doing the same thing would not necessarily mean he can restrain the spiders as kurapica does.

Also, gon didn't just sacrifice his life. Surely that was a part of it but there is also the consideration that gon as a whole was said to bet his entire potential which presumably exceeds netero's. Netero as an old man probably would not have had that potential thing to gamble as gon did. We can also make the point that for gon the whole thing was ultimately far more personal than for netero. Netero just wanted a good fight, one to wage his life on, but still only a good fight. Gon presumably had much stronger emotions at play.

So why didn't the guy with the ability to control dogs instantly killed all 3 spiders when they threatened his girlfriend? Who is to say that he didn't feel stronger about his girlfriend than Gon may have felt toward Kite? He said he knew he was going to die so he's got literally nothing to lose at that point. Okay so Gon had really high potential and maybe he gets more for selling that, but Kastro could fight Hisoka straight up and it's only a tactical error that led to his defeat. He's plenty young and has a lot of life in him, so why didn't he just sacrifice his future to kill Hisoka? It's said that Goto thought of Killua as a son, so how come his love for Killua didn't help him come up with a power that can instantly kill Hisoka at the cost of his life? For that matter why didn't Pitou, who was more than willing to die to Meryem, came up with a 'massive increase in power at the cost of my life' deal?

How someone feels is meaningless because you can argue any encounter the guys fighting may feel just as strongly if not stronger than Gon. Sacrificing your life and mortgaging your future isn't a big deal when you know you're going to die. Then again this is kind of like how Kite is the only person who decided feeling strongly about 'don't die' is a good idea. Apparently all the guys who fight to the death on a regular basis never thought about having an ability to cheat death would be useful.

 

[kkck]

The manga has made the point that gon is insane, not everyone would think of a "fuck this, that, and everything else" strategy. Its unnatural, gon didn't even want to keep on living which is something most of the other people in the manga do want to keep doing after their fights. Kastro went there to win, gotou thought he had an actual chance. Kastro wasn't just overpowered or anything of the sort, he lost his mind to boost, presumably not the ideal scenario to do what you suggest he should do. Gotou could not even properly defend himself by the end, its not like he had the time to do what you suggest either. Mortgage is a bad analogy here, you can pay back a mortgage. What gon did was final. We have not actually seen other fighting with the state of mind gon had at the time. And of course, there are cases where the victims have just died before they can get to thinking this sort of stuff. What would have happened if pitou had killed gon instead of wasting time healing a wound which probably did not hamper him in any way?

Pitou did in a way get that. Granted it was after he died but his devotion to the king was strong enough that his nen became stronger in death and managed to be even more dangerous. Its not quite the same but close enough. Ultimately the issue comes down to nen not working the same way for anyone. Presumably very few could do at all what gon did and if they did they would experience different results. Its entirely probable that even under different conditions would have resulted in different results when gon attempted that.

 

[Phantron]

The reason why Gon can do it is because his potential is insane, so he has more to mortgage his potential compared to a fodder character. But even a fraction of the rate Gon was able to sell his future for instant power would allow easy miraculous comebacks. Why wouldn't Kastro think something like: "If I'm going to die I'll take you with me!" when death is imminent? Unlike Gon versus Pitou, who can roughly one hit kill Gon (Pitou said he can do it but was afraid Gon would still be able to kill Komugi in a dying grasp attack), Kastro and Hisoka are acutally kind of even, so it'd take very little to tip the scale back in Kastro's favor if he was willing to give up his life, and since he was most definitely going to die, that should be a no brainer.

The only other comparable case we have is Netero. In his case, he knew he was going to die after he used his final attack because that's all his life energy. We saw that he immediately got much older because he lost the aura that's keeping him young. And yet to Mereym, the effect of such an attack was just bruise to more bruised. Yes Netero probably didn't have any future left to trade, but he's also one of the most powerful characters in the story, and the gap between him and Meryem is far smaller than Gon versus Pitou. Sacrificing your life is a very weak constrain in HXH, despite seemingly like a lot, because it's invariably used against guys who otherwise would definitely kill you. If it's just a mentality, that's just saying if you're insane enough you'd be more powerful. Besides not making much sense, who is to say other people can't be as insane as Gon?

Pitou's ability work after death but if he could've did the same thing Gon did, it'd be Pitou then instantly killed Gon and then died after, instead of the other way around (he'd have killed Gon if Killua didn't get there on time, and it's unreasonable to expect Gon to remain on guard against a decaptitated opponent). Now you can argue the order doesn't matter, so in that case would anyone choose to die first and then hope their aura may somehow be able to avenge them, versus just kill someone first and then die?

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 PM ----------

A note: in HXH anyone with some remote experience can usually tell when they're going to die. Even the guy controlling dogs knew he was going to die when he saw the Spiders. Both Zeno and Netero thought they were going to die had Meryem attacked them while they lost track of him. It is clearly a very common skill amongst skilled fighters to know when they got no chance to survive, so why wouldn't they prepare for this scenario if they can easily evaluate when it happens? Wouldn't you want to get revenge on the guy who killed you if you knew you weren't going to survive? For that matter it's equally bogus that Kite is the only person who thougut having an ability to cheat death was a good idea. I mean really, just think 'don't die' really really hard and you won't die? Is this FFX's Spira where death is optional? Did all the other guys who died so far just didn't think about 'don't die' hard enough?

 

[XXGenesis]

Ok for real why is it so hard to understand that feelings and emotions are literally powerful even in real life. That applied with a Shounen manga (HxH)who's choice of Super natural power is Nen.

What Gon did cannot be duplicated and if it was it would hold different results or effect.
Gon's state of mind can't even be diagnosed, that with the immense amount of raw emotion, from loss,guilt, etc etc etc etc
This all gave him the power to give form to his desire.

Nen is controlled life force aura that gives form to a persons emotions, character or desire within it's 6 qualities.

If you have A knife that can cut a Nen user and poison them. You are literally wasting your time Materializing the same exact thing. Like I said before the whole arguement "You can't make etc" The Knife you make to be just as sharp and carry as much poison or even more; is only obtainable by placing limits,vow,restrictions on the knife, which makes it inferior to the real Benzhine knife but not exactly....Gosh *Napoleon dynomite voice*


Phantron Killua and Gon both can lift above 30Tons without using Nen. Uvogin is stronger than them physically...No regular chain can hold Uvogon! Only a Nen chain can. And NO Human Without Nen can break a Nen Chain.

After addressing all of that...Can we get back to Meruem vs Any 5 Nen Characters

 

[IamJacky]

Phantron you said it yourself already. The reason why Gon could do it is because Gon had the potential to do it, while others don't have that potential vs their opponents; but more importantly, it is Gon's personality that allowed it to happen. As Pitou/Pouf had pointed out earlier before, Gon has the strongest will and determination among the entire hunter crew, all of the characters you mentioned did not have the level of potential nor the determination that Gon possesses. I don't think that was a bogus bail, I thought it was great that he had to pay that price for a short period of super boost.

 

[Riyuki]

Obviously the best 5 person matchup is the 4 shadow beasts that fought Uvogin and the dude with the mantle.