Well this has been a question on my mind for quite some time now and i always wondered if luffy would become stronger than what roger was back in the old days..Luffy is gonna pawn blackbeard at the end of one piece to take the title... Blackbeard has the most devastating and strongest devil fruit powers rite now so im guessing hes gonna be stronger than whitebeard or roger back in their prime...wont it mean that if luffy beats him he surpasses every1 including roger?? well these r just my assumptions... wat do you guyz think??
I love one piece since there is no new generation surpassing the previous one here .. and i presume that there are lot of people here who dont even agree with black beard be the final villain of the series.
In one piece each generation had its own pirate and there is no way the two can be compared, until and unleass roger rise up from the dead and fight luffy head on .. because if u take it the other way , luffy has already defeated shiki as per the movie goes.... while shiki had a neck to neck fight with roger in his prime. So i think that comparison is not worth []
I love one piece since there is no new generation surpassing the previous one here .. and i presume that there are lot of people here who dont even agree with black beard be the final villain of the series.
In one piece each generation had its own pirate and there is no way the two can be compared, until and unleass roger rise up from the dead and fight luffy head on .. because if u take it the other way , luffy has already defeated shiki as per the movie goes.... while shiki had a neck to neck fight with roger in his prime. So i think that comparison is not worth []
Yeah uve got a point overder but when shiki fought luffy it was 20 years later. He definetly got alot weaker than wat he was wen he fought roger man and on top of it he didnt ave his normal legs. Well im not saying tat ur wrong but whitebeard who posessed the gura gura no mi power fought on equal grounds wid roger... blackbeard has now obtained tat terrific power now nd since he alredy has his darkness power which reduces everything to nothing dont u think he's surpassed whitebeard.
We have no idea how strong Roger was. He tied with whitebeared in his prime and we only saw whitebeared at his deathbed at the end. No way we can tell right now how strong he was and that makes it hard to say, if he will surpass roger.
Yeah uve got a point overder but when shiki fought luffy it was 20 years later. He definetly got alot weaker than wat he was wen he fought roger man and on top of it he didnt ave his normal legs. Well im not saying tat ur wrong but whitebeard who posessed the gura gura no mi power fought on equal grounds wid roger... blackbeard has now obtained tat terrific power now nd since he alredy has his darkness power which reduces everything to nothing dont u think he's surpassed whitebeard.
As we have seen in many cases that the fights in one piece is more about strategies and surroundings rather then the crude power except for some fights (eg Ace BB, Luffy Lucci etc) which had direct collision... and with his darkness power we have already seen hw BB got pawned by WB (who ofcoz was old, injured..half face blown) ...
Once croc mentioned that its not abt the DF power u have but it is about hw well you use them... ofcoz BB had 2 years to improve on that but again .. no one knows roger's real power(only haki or sme DF .. swords etc) .. again i dnt see any comparison here .. its a new era .. new opponents..
its like how in movie rocky baboa (movie 6) current heavy weight champion was compared with the Rocky in his prime...
I think Luffy will deffinetly surpass Roger not only in terms of power, but also he will survive after becoming Pirate King. In the end he may be one of the leaders who will overthrow the World Government.
So also I think that Zoro and Sanji will surpass Roger's first and second mate.
As we have seen in many cases that the fights in one piece is more about strategies and surroundings rather then the crude power except for some fights
One of Choppers abilities revolve off of finding a weakness in a opponents offense or defense
Lucci was strategically evil, killed people just so there would be no more hostages, and tried to kill all of Luffy's friends just to break him down emotionally as well as physically
Mihawk's swordsman ship revolves around observation
^ your examples dont change the fact that in OP characters with crude powers ( admirals ,vice admirals , shichibukai , yonkou , new world captains ,new world vice captians , garp , dragon , magellan , BB , ace ,enel etc etc etc ) will hardly lose to characters from lower tiers no matter what the strategy is .
even in the war saga there was strategy for most parts but in the end whitebeard stood up to the whole opposing army alone . power in OP is everything unless there is bad-matching in abilities ( luffy vs enel ) and strategy is just a middle-tier habbit . its incomparable to naruto in that fashion
you didn't ask that though... you asked where in One Piece was strategy used... I answered that question quite nicely...
No strategy is going to work on some one like them, that's true... But Tiers can be climbed overtime in One Piece just like Naruto... and If you can name me anyone from Naruto's "Lower Tiers" who can beat someone like (Madara, Itachi, Kisame, Tsunade, and Kage, any Akatsuki Member) if you squeeze anyone besides Shikamaru (who defeated Hidan) out then I'd like to see a page # with a link
Although luffy's power has increased dramatically over the past 2 years he still has a longgggg way to go before he can challenge blackbeard or any other strong rival at the end of one piece. Right now he must be at the strongest vice admirals level or maybe a lil higher. I just hope luffy meets akainu in the next arc or so and crushes him. It would be so cool if luffy obtains the power needed to take on all 3 admirals togetther but i highly doubt tat :P. Then again u never know how strong oda might make him.
you didn't ask that though... you asked where in One Piece was strategy used... I answered that question quite nicely...
No strategy is going to work on some one like them, that's true... But Tiers can be climbed overtime in One Piece just like Naruto... and If you can name me anyone from Naruto's "Lower Tiers" who can beat someone like (Madara, Itachi, Kisame, Tsunade, and Kage, any Akatsuki Member) if you squeeze anyone besides Shikamaru (who defeated Hidan) out then I'd like to see a page # with a link
first of all , thanks for your previous answer and explaining . i didnt mean to turn this into a discussion (since its quite off-topic) but you have also missed the reason why i asked that question . a post above said that " its about strategy instead of crude power as seen in many cases " and i just asked a scene " where strategy could beat crude power ? " , that was my real question , or at least what i tried to imply
konohamaru vs hell realm pain is the best example . a villian beaten by a child with just strategy . something like that can never happen in OP imo
first of all , thanks for your previous answer and explaining . i didnt mean to turn this into a discussion (since its quite off-topic) but you have also missed the reason why i asked that question . a post above said that " its about strategy instead of crude power as seen in many cases " and i just asked a scene " where strategy could beat crude power ? " , that was my real question , or at least what i tried to imply
konohamaru vs hell realm pain is the best example . a villian beaten by a child with just strategy . something like that can never happen in OP imo
Best example? Enel. Enel is someone who would be admiral level or a pirate with at least a bounty of 500 million as confirmed by oda, he has a super strong fruit, intangibility, can read movements of anyone within 50 km radius, and his attacks are so overpowered he can kill nearly anyone in a single attack. Luffy lucked out with being rubber, or else he would not of won. Not only that but even with that fact enel still found a way to beat down luffy using aftereffects of his fruit(electricity to melt gold etc), till luffy finally won.
Crocodile, luffy using water then blood to solidify his fruit.
Ussop besting number(4?) and nami constantly winning not with strengh but strat~.
Sanji is always behind the scenes looking for ways to sabotage.
Zoro is the classic all out battle decided in one crude hit whoever is stronger wins.
Hell almost every fight took a lot of thinking. Fighting OZ, assaulting Enis Lobby and technically even luffy making gear second can be seen as the underdog trying anything to win. He see CP9s technics and the only way he could find a way to win was to essentially copy and adapt them for himself(gear second and third) otherwise there was no chance, and even with them they barely lost.
I mean I like naruto and bleach, read them weekly. They were awesome when they started out, became shit over time, kinda started getting better in last year or so. One Piece is so consistant and everything is new from arc to arc and Oda came up with a way that he can vary his arcs great deal without plot holes thanks to the fucked up weather in grand line. So he can change the setting and have it make sense, from winter islands to summer islands to thirller bark, enis lobby, the red line, the countless islands, screwed up weather, the log posts, fishman island. He mixes silly with fun, adventure with design and inventive beyond belief. That is what makes One Piece the greatest manga, not that it sold the most manga copies of any book let alone manga ever sold in Japan(which it did), and not because the fanbase seems much more down to earth, don't take things seriously and don't flip out or call other series down. It's because the person behind the magic knows what we like, and knows exactly how to tell a fun story. It is a series that it truly feels i'm along with the adventure. During Naruto I feel Naruto will always just pull the old nine tails card, but I have to admit some of my favorite fights are in naruto, and the begining up till episode 60 of bleach is amazing. Otherwise the shows feel empty to me, random plotkai.
See Oda can pull surprises from any angle, and you know eventually strawhats will win, but in some cases they lose... Sometimes they win... Sometimes they come out half alive, sometimes nearly dead. Sometimes they get utterlly destroied. It feels like a real story, when suspense comes it might actually be something bad happening. Hard to explain.
Well im not saying tat ur wrong but whitebeard who posessed the gura gura no mi power fought on equal grounds wid roger... blackbeard has now obtained tat terrific power now nd since he alredy has his darkness power which reduces everything to nothing dont u think he's surpassed whitebeard.
I don't know if we can really say Blackbeard surpassed Whitebeard. Like Crocodile said, a pirate who relies only on DF powers would never make Shichibukai status, so I'd assume that is even more true for Yonkou. Plus, thought I havent read the chapter in a looooong time, I'm pretty sure after Blackbeard used Kurouzu Whitebeard just punched him and he was begging for mercy lol.
At the time Roger fought Whitebeard, Whitebeard was probably alot stronger too and healthier. It was like 20 years ago afterall. And we don't even know what kind of power Roger had, something I'm kinda curious about. I don't doubt that he was a haki user, but did he have a DF power too??? Did he fight with a weapon???I hope one day in some kind of flashback Oda shows us.
@ Cizuz I don't think One Piece is the greatest or perfect manga....granted I'm not really sure what I would say IS, but theres plot holes, and there have been arcs that bored the death out of me til at least the last few chapters*cough* thriller bark *cough*. Sometimes I wish Oda's story wasn't so huge so I wouldn't have to wait years just to see characters like the Whitebeard Pirates or the Admirals in action lol. We still haven't met Kaidou or Big Mama......and theres higher ups we don't even know about....and were on chapter 610 lol.
I don't know if we can really say Blackbeard surpassed Whitebeard. Like Crocodile said, a pirate who relies only on DF powers would never make Shichibukai status, so I'd assume that is even more true for Yonkou. Plus, thought I havent read the chapter in a looooong time, I'm pretty sure after Blackbeard used Kurouzu Whitebeard just punched him and he was begging for mercy lol.
At the time Roger fought Whitebeard, Whitebeard was probably alot stronger too and healthier. It was like 20 years ago afterall. And we don't even know what kind of power Roger had, something I'm kinda curious about. I don't doubt that he was a haki user, but did he have a DF power too??? Did he fight with a weapon???I hope one day in some kind of flashback Oda shows us.
@ Cizuz I don't think One Piece is the greatest or perfect manga....granted I'm not really sure what I would say IS, but theres plot holes, and there have been arcs that bored the death out of me til at least the last few chapters*cough* thriller bark *cough*. Sometimes I wish Oda's story wasn't so huge so I wouldn't have to wait years just to see characters like the Whitebeard Pirates or the Admirals in action lol. We still haven't met Kaidou or Big Mama......and theres higher ups we don't even know about....and were on chapter 610 lol.
Then Roger most probably is a Haki user.I cant think of anyway you can hurt/tie someone with the strongest paramecia fruit with pure brute strength.
And on topic.
Like someone said we cant compare someone who is dead to someone who is alive and kicking.Unless the dead comes back to life and fight with the living.
So we should stop comparing them both.They both have their own uniqueness and "aura"
i think so, luffy apparently now control the all 3 types of haki so he can hit logia users and i think that he probably has done more in this 2 years that just training haki , maybe we are going to see soon a new gear
i think so, luffy apparently now control the all 3 types of haki so he can hit logia users and i think that he probably has done more in this 2 years that just training haki , maybe we are going to see soon a new gear
That would be cool if he has a new gear. We still need to see the full extent of his gear 2nd and 3rd since we have seen so little yet we all know tat hes tremendously strong.
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could you give me an example of a strategic fight please ?
