First Round Dragon Ball vs. Amatsuki

[Ripper 30]

Well nostalgia plays a big part on me with DB. If I hadn't grown up with it then I would probably not be that attached to the series... but it is a quality series even with its inconsistencies.
Didn't like Buu's arc though, not even as a child, it should have ended with Freeza for it to end at its highest.

I Mean it's very difficult to maintain high quality throughout 10 years and i think from Android arc we got back to exloprong esrty cities and towns instead of The boring setting that Namek was, but
even if you dislike the Android arc, Future Trunks reveal and Time Travel actually did add shock value; Tite Kubo was one of many who felt it was the most shocking scene in manga they've read http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-children-06/

"To this day, I’ve never experienced a shock from any battle Manga surpassing the scene where Trunks first appears, and I surely never will."
then we had things like the mystery of second Time Machine svs reveal of Cell.

as for Boo arc,
i think it was just as good as Namek and Androids arc. Goku is characterized well with his threatening of Kaioshin and why he believes the younger generation should take care of Boo, and Vegeta finally becomes a great character in this arc as well. Boo is arguably Z's best villain too since he actually develops as a character, with his relationship with Mr. Satan and Bee, and with him killing Babidi, giving him independence. Mr. Satan also develops as we see a different side of character to him. It also probably has the best humor in Z and most awesome looking stuff in the series (Majin Vegeta adding depth, SSj3, Ultimate Gohan, Vegetto, Kid Boo, Goku-Vegeta Subplot solved perfectly in the last fight etc).


You could ask @Demonspeed what I think of the abomination Dragon Ball Super... [/QUOTE]

Yea it's a badly written show with no substance whatsoever. people nowdays downplay DB-Z to defend the Shit that DBS is full of with "Don't call super bad because dbz has been crap and dbs is trying to improve it" like wtf?
The reason though why Dragonball super is so criticized is because, it doesn't met the bar that newer shounen shows have set for the genre. Not at all. It barely has a story, characters don't develop at all, no other characters do anything on screen outside filler, the constant aspulls and broken scaling, and the fighting choreography has been piss poor. The plot in Super has been convoluted and actually requires head canon just to understand (bad writing), and that it doesn't build off of the standards Z started. Z still holds up water to the newer shows inspired by Z. Even GT to some people gets its respect for at least still feeling like Z even if its delivery has the same problems, but its strengths over Super still hold up the bar Z did. Most modern anime raised the bar far higher than the cashgrab Toei sees Super as. I don't really care what Super fanboys will say, compared to shows like Hero Academia and Hunter X Hunter. Super is mediocre.

with DBZ, a lot of ppl just take rumors ("dbz is shit with no character or plot worth watching") and run with it lol. I think its because of how different Funimation's original Z dub was compared to the manga and the sub and Kai and other dubs from other countries. the funimation dub dumbed down dbz and made alot of ppl think its way more simplistic than it is. Then there's also the issue of people not liking Masako Nozawa as Goku even though her performance in DB Franchise has been Great, and people preferring to watch it rather than read it, so a whole bunch of stuff comes up. Not to mention, DBZ's anime has a problem with filler and slow pacing so its not exactly high on people's lists that they wanna rewatch.

 

[Farfalla]

I picked it again yesterday, the good thing about this event is it reminds me of mangas pending in my list.
I'll send you impressions when Im halfway through o/

Looking forward to it ^^


Tbh I also have mixed feelings about DB. It wasn't wasn't rly a part of my childhood since I used to watch CN for Garfield instead of DB in our open channels xD And I only read the manga when I was in uni, so it felt a bit silly to me back then. I guess since I'm super picky with gag and fighting scenes, that also helped me feeling like it was an ok series. Love the OST tho *-*

 

[Ripper 30]

Looking forward to it ^^


Tbh I also have mixed feelings about DB. It wasn't wasn't rly a part of my childhood since I used to watch CN for Garfield instead of DB in our open channels xD And I only read the manga when I was in uni, so it felt a bit silly to me back then. I guess since I'm super picky with gag and fighting scenes, that also helped me feeling like it was an ok series. Love the OST tho *-*

nostalgia doesn't have much role. people just downplay the show by using "you only like it for nostalgia" card as if Naruto, Yuu Yuu Hakusho, Bleach, Inuyasha totally don't have any nostalgic value despite airing at the same time as DBZ on CN. did you watched it in Dub? because the dub totally ruins everything about the show and turns it into "generic American action cartoon".
i like DB way more now than i did as a kid by knowing all the depth , nuances and character and story properly now.
what are the battle shonen that you loke btw?

 

[Farfalla]

Nah, I didn't say people love it solely due to nostalgia xD I agree with many points you presented in your first campaign post. In my case, I said it wasn't rly epic to me, 'cause of my own taste.

Oh, and I didn't mean as in fighting series I love and fighting series I don't. I'm picky with those scenes 'cause some get me rly thrilled and some don't - the scenes themselves, not the whole series. Like, the Naturo chuunin shiken had some awesome fights, some were super clever.

 

[Ripper 30]

Nah, I didn't say people love it solely due to nostalgia xD I agree with many points you presented in your first campaign post. In my case, I said it wasn't rly epic to me, 'cause of my own taste.

Oh, and I didn't mean as in fighting series I love and fighting series I don't. I'm picky with those scenes 'cause some get me rly thrilled and some don't - the scenes themselves, not the whole series. Like, the Naturo chuunin shiken had some awesome fights, some were super clever.

Yea, i see where you are coming from. and Naruto had better Animation since it's a newer studio.
also, DB had similar fights like Shikamaru like how Goku lures Tenshinhan (3 eyed baldy) into attacking him by dividing him into Four people clone which means 4×3 = 12 eyes then using Taiyo Ken (Solar Fist) to use his advantage of extra vision against him and due Tenshinhan getting divided in 4, he had 1/4 power in Tenshinhan which made it easy for Goku to knick him off and many like this. like in my post there's a pic of Reacoom using Eraser Gun from his mouth and Kuririn attacks him on head and ends up making him swallow his own attack and stopping the supply.

Shikamaru was Great before Time Skip and in Hidan arc he was good too but after that Kishimoto didn't do justice to his character in War arc.

 

[Lambu]

I don't mean to knock it. It just was never my thing. A cousin of mine was really into it and owned the anime everything up until after the Freeza arc. And I watched that with him and enjoyed it. But it never pulled me in the way series like Escoflowne and Inuyasha did.

I totally understand, I think the passion for a series comes when the it marks you in some way. If I had known DB after knowing other battle mangas (HxH for example) I would still love it but it wouldn't inspire me that much.

I Mean it's very difficult to maintain high quality throughout 10 years and i think from Android arc we got back to exloprong esrty cities and towns instead of The boring setting that Namek was, but
even if you dislike the Android arc, Future Trunks reveal and Time Travel actually did add shock value; Tite Kubo was one of many who felt it was the most shocking scene in manga they've read http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-children-06/

"To this day, I’ve never experienced a shock from any battle Manga surpassing the scene where Trunks first appears, and I surely never will."
then we had things like the mystery of second Time Machine svs reveal of Cell.

as for Boo arc,
i think it was just as good as Namek and Androids arc. Goku is characterized well with his threatening of Kaioshin and why he believes the younger generation should take care of Boo, and Vegeta finally becomes a great character in this arc as well. Boo is arguably Z's best villain too since he actually develops as a character, with his relationship with Mr. Satan and Bee, and with him killing Babidi, giving him independence. Mr. Satan also develops as we see a different side of character to him. It also probably has the best humor in Z and most awesome looking stuff in the series (Majin Vegeta adding depth, SSj3, Ultimate Gohan, Vegetto, Kid Boo, Goku-Vegeta Subplot solved perfectly in the last fight etc).

Yea it's a badly written show with no substance whatsoever. people nowdays downplay DB-Z to defend the Shit that DBS is full of with "Don't call super bad because dbz has been crap and dbs is trying to improve it" like wtf?
The reason though why Dragonball super is so criticized is because, it doesn't met the bar that newer shounen shows have set for the genre. Not at all. It barely has a story, characters don't develop at all, no other characters do anything on screen outside filler, the constant aspulls and broken scaling, and the fighting choreography has been piss poor. The plot in Super has been convoluted and actually requires head canon just to understand (bad writing), and that it doesn't build off of the standards Z started. Z still holds up water to the newer shows inspired by Z. Even GT to some people gets its respect for at least still feeling like Z even if its delivery has the same problems, but its strengths over Super still hold up the bar Z did. Most modern anime raised the bar far higher than the cashgrab Toei sees Super as. I don't really care what Super fanboys will say, compared to shows like Hero Academia and Hunter X Hunter. Super is mediocre.

with DBZ, a lot of ppl just take rumors ("dbz is shit with no character or plot worth watching") and run with it lol. I think its because of how different Funimation's original Z dub was compared to the manga and the sub and Kai and other dubs from other countries. the funimation dub dumbed down dbz and made alot of ppl think its way more simplistic than it is. Then there's also the issue of people not liking Masako Nozawa as Goku even though her performance in DB Franchise has been Great, and people preferring to watch it rather than read it, so a whole bunch of stuff comes up. Not to mention, DBZ's anime has a problem with filler and slow pacing so its not exactly high on people's lists that they wanna rewatch.

Well the Trunks revelation was cool, but I remember the Android arc as the one in which Toriyama was running out of ideas, since he wanted it to end with both Freeza and Goku dead in Namek, so he centered himself in drawing and left the script to his editors...

That made him create great designs (Cell's case is particularly amazing) but it also meant a rather linear script and the appeareance of way bigger inconsistencies.
Basically, the Final Fight against Cell was great (Toriyama always did the final fights exhilarating) but I found the rest of the arc too simple and predictable, compared to the battle for the DragonBalls that Namek was... the Cell saga was rather boring till Cell got his Perfect form.

And Majin Buu arc started quite well (till the end of Majin Vegeta to be precise) but the amount of asspulls Toriyama made for that arc was just too much. I still enjoyed it, but it was kind of a guilty pleasure.

Agreed with everything you said about DB Super.

 

[Ripper 30]

Well the Trunks revelation was cool, but I remember the Android arc as the one in which Toriyama was running out of ideas, since he wanted it to end with both Freeza and Goku dead in Namek, so he centered himself in drawing and left the script to his editors...

That made him create great designs (Cell's case is particularly amazing) but it also meant a rather linear script and the appeareance of way bigger inconsistencies.
Basically, the Final Fight against Cell was great (Toriyama always did the final fights exhilarating) but I found the rest of the arc too simple and predictable, compared to the battle for the DragonBalls that Namek was... the Cell saga was rather boring till Cell got his Perfect form.

And Majin Buu arc started quite well (till the end of Majin Vegeta to be precise) but the amount of asspulls Toriyama made for that arc was just too much. I still enjoyed it, but it was kind of a guilty pleasure.

Agreed with everything you said about DB Super.

No, that's a bs made up rumour by fans. Toriyama only wanted to end back in Pilaf Arc after 20 Chapters but other than that i dont think he ever said he wants to end it.

what happened was he initially wanted to make Gero and #19 the Main villains but his editors told him to put someone else for main Villain Role then he made #18 and #17 then they asked him to change again and he made Cell and then the editor said again that it's not suitable then he made Semi-Perfect Cell thing in draft and then they said that it looks ugly then came Perfect Cell. that's what happened, his editors just disagreed with his initial choices and asked him to do things differently but everything was done by Toriyama himself.

One thing I'll give the Cell Arc: knowing how often Toriyama was pestered by his editor to change the focus of the arc made me appreciate how it still has a sense of continuity. I don't think many would be able to play it off as well as he did. So many changes to the story done well, twist and turns and villain changes and powerups and a story that kept giving. The Cell arc represents why i like Z over anything, it's so unguaranteed, the story can go literally anywhere and Unpredictable. Super, GT and OG DB are all so straight forward.

I don't think Cell arc was less Unpredictable than Namek, be it the mystery of Trunks to identity of Gero to how the androids look like to who are the main ones to who owns the second time machine to who is sucking these people in gingertown to how are everyone's ki present at one place and the whole mystery with Goku's training and him coming out early and staying in ssj even during normal household work to him trusting Gohan. the events in Cell arc were actually way more diverse, the cities were explored more, the RoSaT and Time Travel.
i actually find Cell arc more Unpredictable than Namek arc since Cell arc had everyone doing something and interesting antagonist in #16, #17 and #18 along with witty stuff like Gero intentionally chosing Caves and Mountains to fight Goku so that he can escape by hiding among them, Cell masking his ki across the town, etc.

the "Inconsistencies" in Cell arc are exaggerated by the Fandom who miss the forest for trees. these Inconsistencies don't ruin the overall plot or story but minor hiccups.

i don't think there is any asspull in Boo Arc. Ssj3 was attained by Goku training for 7 years in Otherworld, Gotenks was a fusion of Two prodigy kids who were ssj at early age and trained in RoSaT as well, which is enough since Fusion is a big boost in itself. none of them were asspulls imo. sure the Power up of Ultimate Gohan may not be very well earned but it wasn't an asspull at all since we knew it will happen and he was in Kaioshin Realm for that reason only.